Trump Health Policy Thread

[LordMortis]

I'm old enough to remember when RFK Jr. testified that he would not change the childhood vaccination schedule:

To earn the vote he needed to become the nation’s top health official, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. made a special promise to a U.S. senator: He would not change the nation’s current vaccination schedule.

But on Tuesday, speaking for the first time to thousands of U.S. Health and Human Services agency employees, he vowed to investigate the childhood vaccine schedule that prevents measles, polio and other dangerous diseases.

“Nothing is going to be off limits,” Kennedy said, adding that pesticides, food additives, microplastics, antidepressants and the electromagnetic waves emitted by cellphones and microwaves also would be studied.

This timeline absolutely blows.

He's gotta take blowback from that. Like remember the time all of the incoming SC justices said they wouldn't touch RvW and just look at how lying about that destroyed their careers.

[Smoove_B]

He's gotta take blowback from that. Like remember the time all of the incoming SC justices said they wouldn't touch RvW and just look at how lying about that destroyed their careers.

Oh yeah, I'm totally sure. Plus think of all the pending cabinet members that still need to be voted in - this will totally undermine confidence in them too and how people vote for confirmations.

[Pyperkub]

Depressed? We'll send you to the slave labor camp!

Kennedy described opioid, antidepressant, and ADHD “addicts” receiving treatment on tech-free “wellness farms,” where they would spend as much as three or four years growing organic produce.

July 2024. Thank goodness. Not that it's great but if that was released today.

Hmm... Part 1 now an EO

On Thursday, President Donald Trump signed an executive order that echoes Kennedy's lie that he wants to "make America healthy again." HHS is ordered to "assess the prevalence of and threat posed by the prescription of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, stimulants, and weight-loss drugs." But it's clear from the context that no good faith assessment is intended, as the order repeatedly cites a preordained conclusion that there is an "over-utilization of medication" and an "over-reliance on medication and treatments."

[LawBeefaroni]

Creation of pretext.

The endgame here is to round up undesirables under the guise of mental health. Disrputiing the standard current treatment regime will allow them to institute their happy camps for non-pharmaceutical "treatment".

Trans? Go to camp.
Gay? Camp.
Homeless? Free camp!
Atheist? Camp.
Human trafficking pedophile? Camp administrator.

[Pyperkub]

Yup, with these people you have to assume the worst.

[Isgrimnur]

Human trafficking pedophile? Camp administrator.

Texas couple who ran ex-gay camp for ‘troubled boys’ arrested, accused of trafficking children (August 20, 2019)

Though this one was more child slave labor.

[Grifman]

Federal flu vaccine promotion killed (inevitably some people too):

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-heal ... terminated

[Smoove_B]

And so it begins:

The upcoming meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) has been postponed.

The committee, which advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on US vaccine policy, had been scheduled to meet February 26 to 28. But the meeting has been postponed "to accommodate public comment in advance of the meeting," according to a statement from a Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) spokesman.

"The ACIP workgroups met as scheduled this month and will present at the upcoming ACIP meeting," HHS communications director Andrew Nixon said in an email. But Nixon did not respond to a question about when the meeting will be rescheduled.

The current guess is that the current members of ACIP will be replaced and the new group will re-convene and start breaking shit - like the current recommended vaccination schedule for children. Or the annual flu vaccination recommendation. Pretty soon they'd need to meet to discuss the plan for Fall 2025 Covid-19 vaccination, but who knows if that'll happen. The article mentions the idea that people will be replaced and I'd say it this point that's 100% correct.

Before the election, I assumed RFK Jr. would be head of HHS and just undermine things with language - giving states the ability to make childhood vaccinations optional for school. I still think that's going to happen, but after this first month, I know think it's going to be more overt and aggressive.

[Smoove_B]

Random Saturday night shutdown confirmation:

The Pregnancy Risk Assessment Monitoring System (PRAMS) is a federal data collection system, run out of CDC, “designed to identify groups of women and infants at high risk for health problems, to monitor changes in health status, and to measure progress towards goals in improving the health of mothers and infants,” in the words of the program’s website. It has run continuously since 1988 and covers everything from the particulars of newborn health and morbidity to issues like post-partum depression in mothers. I can report that the Trump CDC has shuttered the program as part of its general clampdown on medical research and public health information.

...

According to these sources, the entire program has been shuttered. This apparently happened soon after President Trump’s inauguration, with no additional data being accepted after January 31st. But there was no official announcement, even to other research institutions who collaborate on the project. So word only seeped out slowly after people realized that what seemed like it might be a temporary stoppage in the data wasn’t simply a technical problem.

As it has been conveyed to these sources, all data collection for 2024 is over and no data received after January 31st, 2025 is being accepted. The entire 2025 PRAMS program is on indefinite hold. The most curious and ominous part of what CDC personnel are informally telling partner researchers and institutions is that the entire program is now under a new IRB review.

GOP continues to demonstrate they do not actually care about women, mothers or infants.

[LawBeefaroni]

And so it begins:

The upcoming meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) has been postponed.

The committee, which advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on US vaccine policy, had been scheduled to meet February 26 to 28. But the meeting has been postponed "to accommodate public comment in advance of the meeting," according to a statement from a Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) spokesman.

"The ACIP workgroups met as scheduled this month and will present at the upcoming ACIP meeting," HHS communications director Andrew Nixon said in an email. But Nixon did not respond to a question about when the meeting will be rescheduled.

The current guess is that the current members of ACIP will be replaced and the new group will re-convene and start breaking shit - like the current recommended vaccination schedule for children. Or the annual flu vaccination recommendation. Pretty soon they'd need to meet to discuss the plan for Fall 2025 Covid-19 vaccination, but who knows if that'll happen. The article mentions the idea that people will be replaced and I'd say it this point that's 100% correct.

Before the election, I assumed RFK Jr. would be head of HHS and just undermine things with language - giving states the ability to make childhood vaccinations optional for school. I still think that's going to happen, but after this first month, I know think it's going to be more overt and aggressive.

This is important why? Can't doctor's just take up the cause and make evidence based recommendations on their own? Won't vaccine manufacturers push for vaccine sales anyway? It's just some government agency telling people what to do with no legal authority or enforcement.

Well, not really. The CDC vaccine schedule is the bible. If they no longer recommend vaccine it opens up liability for providers who go "off schedule". It changes school requirements, which is the only reason a good percentage of kids get vaccinated. It influences how vaccine makers prioritize production each season.

This is a fantastic move if you want more sick and dead kids. And adults, probably.

[raydude]

And so it begins:

The upcoming meeting of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) has been postponed.

The committee, which advises the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on US vaccine policy, had been scheduled to meet February 26 to 28. But the meeting has been postponed "to accommodate public comment in advance of the meeting," according to a statement from a Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) spokesman.

"The ACIP workgroups met as scheduled this month and will present at the upcoming ACIP meeting," HHS communications director Andrew Nixon said in an email. But Nixon did not respond to a question about when the meeting will be rescheduled.

The current guess is that the current members of ACIP will be replaced and the new group will re-convene and start breaking shit - like the current recommended vaccination schedule for children. Or the annual flu vaccination recommendation. Pretty soon they'd need to meet to discuss the plan for Fall 2025 Covid-19 vaccination, but who knows if that'll happen. The article mentions the idea that people will be replaced and I'd say it this point that's 100% correct.

Before the election, I assumed RFK Jr. would be head of HHS and just undermine things with language - giving states the ability to make childhood vaccinations optional for school. I still think that's going to happen, but after this first month, I know think it's going to be more overt and aggressive.

This is important why? Can't doctor's just take up the cause and make evidence based recommendations on their own? Won't vaccine manufacturers push for vaccine sales anyway? It's just some government agency telling people what to do with no legal authority or enforcement.

Well, not really. The CDC vaccine schedule is the bible. If they no longer recommend vaccine it opens up liability for providers who go "off schedule". It changes school requirements, which is the only reason a good percentage of kids get vaccinated. It influences how vaccine makers prioritize production each season.

This is a fantastic move if you want more sick and dead kids. And adults, probably.

Would the provider still be liable if the parent or guardian still wants it on the "old schedule"? I'm thinking this may be one of those "fight back" moments where we should copy the current schedule before it disappears and then advocate for our local school board to keep to the old schedule if and when RFK decides to declare a vaccine free-for-all.

[Smoove_B]

Uncharted territory; the ACIP recommendation and CDC unified publication as we've come to use have been in existence since 1995. Just realizing that's 30 years and a generation of unified recommendations - that have pretty much been under attack since 1998 and the release of the Wakefield "study" that kicked most of this off.

I'd like to hope many states would stick with the last recommended schedule, the problem will be how it will potentially fractures what each state can and will adopt. I'm not sure I'm necessarily worried about liability at a doctor level - vaccines would still be recommended by pediatricians or physician organizations, presumably as licensed/tested/certified products from the manufacturers. The interesting thing will be how schools, hospitals and doctor's offices respond when the number of people (and kids) abstaining from vaccines increases even more. I know some pediatricians refuse to treat parents that won't vaccinate so that's already a thing, I fear a steady increase in people abstaining is going to strain systems.

[Smoove_B]

Tomorrow is going to be a big day for Medicaid:

Georgetown University public policy professor Edwin Park said that there are similarities between the current attacks on Medicaid and ones in 2017, during Trump’s first term, which also focused on “shifting the federal cost to states.” There are around 70 million Americans enrolled in Medicaid, half being children; 20 million of those enrollees only qualify due to Medicaid expansions—almost a third of the program. In a state like Florida, where there are 4.3 million people on Medicaid, around one million people are locked out by its refusal to take part in the expansion. (Required federal Medicaid eligibility groups also include disabled and aging people receiving Supplemental Security Income, pregnant people, and low-income children, all of whom Medicaid has to extend some level of coverage to in all states.)

...

Elon Musk and Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson have been among many Medicaid opponents loudly promoting false, stereotyped accounts of widespread waste and fraud among its low-income recipients. But nearly two out of three working-age adults on Medicaid who aren’t on SSI—some seven million people—work. The truth of the matter is that most disabled people on Medicaid qualify due to income, which puts them at the highest risk for losing coverage if Republicans decide they’re not “poor enough” to cover. The approval process for SSI can take years, with tens of thousands of applicants dying annually while on wait lists. That leaves many disabled people too sick to work before the government agrees they’re “disabled enough,” if they end up qualifying at all.

Once again, the hope is a small number of House GOP members will defect when the vote happens:

Eight House Republicans, including Reps. David Valadao, R-Calif. and Nicole Malliotakis, R-N.Y., who are members of the Hispanic Conference or represent districts with sizeable Hispanic populations warned in a letter to House Speaker Mike Johnson earlier this month that “slashing Medicaid would have serious consequences, particularly in rural and predominantly Hispanic communities,” while also advocating for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program—often known as food stamps—to remain protected.

...

Assuming all Democrats vote against the spending plan, Republicans can afford to lose just one vote under their 218-215 majority in the House. At least one, Rep. Victoria Spartz, R-Ind., has already said she will vote against the bill, writing Sunday on X that the spending cuts did not go far enough, while Rep. Tom Massie, R-Ky., has said privately he’ll oppose the deal, according to Politico.

They're apparently kicking around the idea of "work requirements" again to try and reduce the funding. In other words, they'll only give money to states that enact a work-for-Medicaid program. However, as noted in USA today, it's not that simple:

Critics warn the Medicaid work requirement, which surfaced during Trump's first term, failed to achieve significant savings while adding administrative costs and stripping away coverage of people who qualified. During the first Trump administration, 13 states sought a Medicaid work requirement but only Arkansas was far along enough to remove people from coverage.

Arkansas cut more than 18,000 residents from Medicaid within the first seven months of the program, often because people were unaware of paperwork requirements to keep their coverage, said David Machledt, a senior policy analyst at the National Health Law Program.

Medicaid work requirements are "designed to trip people up and then blame them for falling," Machledt said. "The lessons from everywhere where work requirements have been implemented show they don't accomplish their stated policy goals."

Remember, the party of "small government" is doing everything they can to make things more administratively difficult and complex for the people that need these benefits.

[Smoove_B]

And in case you're wondering why this is being posted here, it's because of a weird interview Trump gave on MSNBC with President Musk:

On Tuesday, Trump and unofficial co-president Elon Musk sat for an interview with Fox News host Sean Hannity. “Social Security won’t be touched, other than this fraud or something we’re going to find,” Trump said. “It’s going to be strengthened but won’t be touched. Medicare, Medicaid, none of that stuff is going to be touched.”

...

That endorsement created a contradiction that, according to Politico, “sent aides scrambling to figure out what Trump meant.” Despite the president’s promise the night before on Fox, the House GOP budget leaves Medicaid anything but “untouched.”

The “full America First agenda” that Trump is so jazzed about will cost around $4.8 trillion, a combination of lower revenue and spending cuts. The vast majority of that — $4.5 trillion — comes as tax cuts, mostly an extension of the 2017 tax cuts that overwhelmingly benefited wealthy Americans. To make that cost more palatable to the far right’s deficit hawks, the budget asks approximately half a dozen House committees to find $2 trillion in spending cuts. The largest reductions — $880 billion — will come via the Energy and Commerce Committee, with most or all of that figure likely to come from Medicaid.

[Grifman]

First death in measles outbreak in TX:

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/1st-measl ... =119208967

[Smoove_B]

*not Trump's health policy (yet)

Also, it's here.

[Grifman]

*not Trump's health policy (yet)

Also, it's here.

Given the anti-vaccine stance of his admin - the Trump admin cut out all funding for promotion of the flu vaccine recently - it’s as good as his. Stuff like spreads distrust, regardless of any stored or unstated policy

[Blackhawk]

There is so much overlap between public health and politics these days that I don't think there's a 'wrong' thread anymore.

[Smoove_B]

What's happening in TX right now started long before Trump was elected President. He doesn't own what's happening right now with measles but it will absolutely be made worse (future outbreaks) because of his election and advancement of RFK Jr. to the head of HHS.

If you wanted to make the argument that the RFK Jr., HHS and the CDC should be doing something right now to help in TX, there I'd agree.

[LawBeefaroni]

2/3 of nursing home residents are Medicaid beneficiaries. An $880B cut in Medicaid means homeless old people as nursing homes go out of business.

I know Musk and Trump are oblivious to reality, but not all of the GOP is. Dumping millions of infirm seniors on the street would be a potential turning point that they don't want.

[Smoove_B]

I know Musk and Trump are oblivious to reality, but not all of the GOP is. Dumping millions of infirm seniors on the street would be a potential turning point that they don't want.

And yet they voted in support of it yesterday.

[Blackhawk]

2/3 of nursing home residents are Medicaid beneficiaries. An $880B cut in Medicaid means homeless old people as nursing homes go out of business.

That's terrifying. Between this and housing, we're going to have to adapt to 19th century mulri-generational homes. The years it'll take to get there are going to be brutal.

And for the orphan elders (those with no family remaining), it's going to be a nightmare.

[LawBeefaroni]

I know Musk and Trump are oblivious to reality, but not all of the GOP is. Dumping millions of infirm seniors on the street would be a potential turning point that they don't want.

And yet they voted in support of it yesterday.

Committees still have to find the "savings". The whole process is designed ro allow deniability of anything unpopular and credit for anything done right.

[Grifman]

Well, Trump can oen this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2 ... eting-flu/

Trump officials have canceled a federal vaccine advisory committee meeting expected to be held next month that was intended to help select the makeup of next winter’s influenza vaccine.
This is the second federal vaccine advisory panel that has been postponed or canceled since Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a longtime anti-vaccine activist, was sworn in as health and human services secretary.
The Food and Drug Administration notified members of its vaccine advisory committee Wednesday that a planned March 13 meeting was canceled, according to an email sent to members that was read to The Washington Post. No reason was provided.
The email warned members against forwarding the email. It suggested members decline to answer questions from media.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, this is arguably the first overtly aggressive action he's taken against vaccines. I'd seen a suggestion that U.S. manufacturers might be able to use the WHO guidance to create a 2025 influenza shot, however it would still require the FDA to meet and approve it for domestic use.

I can't even process what's happening with this; it's unthinkable and yet...it's seemingly happening. The idea that wealthy folks might be engaging in vaccine tourism by going to Mexico and Canada to get flu shots later this year is insane.

EDIT: Can't open that article without a WaPo sub, so here's an ABC News link.

[Smoove_B]

Hopefully...

An HHS spokesperson confirms FDA’s flu vaccine meeting is canceled, but says strain picks will still be made in time

A former official told us agency does have authority to sign off on WHO’s flu vaccine strains without consulting advisers

[LawBeefaroni]

A former official told us agency does have authority to sign off on WHO’s flu vaccine strains without consulting advisers

That'll get fixed, probably.

[raydude]

Yeah, this is arguably the first overtly aggressive action he's taken against vaccines. I'd seen a suggestion that U.S. manufacturers might be able to use the WHO guidance to create a 2025 influenza shot, however it would still require the FDA to meet and approve it for domestic use.

I can't even process what's happening with this; it's unthinkable and yet...it's seemingly happening. The idea that wealthy folks might be engaging in vaccine tourism by going to Mexico and Canada to get flu shots later this year is insane.

The good news is that herd immunity still applies, and there are a lot more non-wealthy people than there are wealthy people.

[Enough]

Between no flu vaccines and hits on social security, is this admin trying to Logan's Run the oldsters?

[Blackhawk]

Between no flu vaccines and hits on social security, is this admin trying Logan's Run the oldsters?

Are they making a profit, or costing money?

[Enough]

Um, major yikes:

[YellowKing]

Good thing Tesla is getting into the TB treatment business!

[hepcat]

If you purchase a starlink starter kit for 299.99, you get a flu vaccine and a tb booster shot.

[Max Peck]

RFK Jr. Vows To Make Measles Deaths So Common They Won’t Be Upsetting Anymore

WASHINGTON—Addressing the ongoing outbreak in Texas that has infected at least 124 state residents and killed one child, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. vowed Thursday to make measles deaths so common that they wouldn’t be upsetting anymore. “When President Trump appointed me, I pledged to desensitize Americans to preventable death by making it such a normal, everyday occurrence that people would just shrug it off,” said Kennedy, who added that the current epidemic, which is considered Texas’ largest in 30 years, was the first step to one day fully numbing citizens to the experience of watching each other die painful measles-related deaths. “We’ve been following this outbreak since it began in late January, and we’re proud to announce that Americans across the country are already jaded enough to throw up their hands and dismiss it as just another sensationalized news story. As it spreads, we will continue to fan the flames in the hope that if someone you know and love succumbs to a measles infection, you won’t even bat an eyelash.” At press time, Kennedy added that one day measles deaths would be so common that no one would even care if he died from the disease, too.

[Smoove_B]

That Onion article is a bullseye.

Not an article from the Onion, sadly:

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. posted a document Friday proposing to strip public participation from much of the business his department conducts. The move comes during a time of major upheaval across federal health agencies, and as the public waits to see how Kennedy will enact his pledge of “radical transparency” at the department.

The statement, placed in the Federal Register, said HHS would rescind its longtime practice of giving members of the public a chance to comment on the agency’s plans. It is set to be formally published in the register on Monday, March 3

...

However, Kennedy and HHS are arguing they don’t need to seek public input when the agency is making decisions about “agency management or personnel,” or related to public property, loans and grants, benefits, or contracts. HHS can also choose to cut out public participation when it deems the process “impracticable, unnecessary, or contrary to the public interest,” per the law.

History:

Since 1971, HHS has chosen to involve the public in its rulemaking about the listed issues, and to err on the side of sharing more publicly — to forego the process “sparingly.” This decision, referred to as the Richardson Waiver, has made it so anyone could read through notices in the Federal Register of what HHS planned to do, and offer feedback.

HHS says it is rescinding the little-known waiver because the public participation process imposes too many responsibilities on the department, “beyond the maximum” requirements of the law. Those obligations “are contrary to the efficient operation of the department, and impede the department’s flexibility to adapt quickly to legal and policy mandates,” Kennedy wrote in the document.

Totally normal.

[Holman]

I just saw the point made that there are now more measles cases in Texas than there are trans athletes in the NCAA.

[Isgrimnur]

I just saw the point made that there are now more measles cases in Texas than there are trans athletes in the NCAA.

[Smoove_B]

Can't wait to see how this is received by the usual suspects:

Two days after initially downplaying the outbreak as “not unusual,” the US health secretary, Robert F Kennedy Jr, on Friday said he recognizes the serious impact of the ongoing measles epidemic in Texas – in which a child died recently – and said the government is providing resources, including protective vaccines.

“Ending the measles outbreak is a top priority for me and my extraordinary team,” Kennedy – an avowed anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist who for years has sown doubts about the safety and efficacy of vaccines – said in a post on X.

Kennedy said his federal Department of Health and Human Services would send Texas 2,000 doses of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine – typically meant to be given to children in a series of two shots at 12 to 15 months old as well as between the ages of four and six years old – through its immunization program.

It's a bare minimum effort, but at least it's the right thing to do. Better would be to release funds to local and county health agencies to make sure they can hire/pay additional staff for clinics and general response.

[Alefroth]

The problem isn't lack of vaccines, is it?

[$iljanus]

Can't wait to see how this is received by the usual suspects:

Two days after initially downplaying the outbreak as “not unusual,” the US health secretary, Robert F Kennedy Jr, on Friday said he recognizes the serious impact of the ongoing measles epidemic in Texas – in which a child died recently – and said the government is providing resources, including protective vaccines.

“Ending the measles outbreak is a top priority for me and my extraordinary team,” Kennedy – an avowed anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist who for years has sown doubts about the safety and efficacy of vaccines – said in a post on X.

Kennedy said his federal Department of Health and Human Services would send Texas 2,000 doses of the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine – typically meant to be given to children in a series of two shots at 12 to 15 months old as well as between the ages of four and six years old – through its immunization program.

It's a bare minimum effort, but at least it's the right thing to do. Better would be to release funds to local and county health agencies to make sure they can hire/pay additional staff for clinics and general response.

And to get on the airwaves showing support for a vaccination campaign…but that would be a bit too far.