Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:13 pm**

I totally get the allure of the Taylor / Mensch "justice is swiftly coming" tweets. But the fatal flaw is that it's impossible to imagine a world where sources are leaking something that huge and explosive, and do so to Mensch and not to, say, David Farenthold.

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:16 pm**

El Guapo wrote:I totally get the allure of the Taylor / Mensch "justice is swiftly coming" tweets. But the fatal flaw is that it's impossible to imagine a world where sources are leaking something that huge and explosive, and do so to Mensch and not to, say, David Farenthold.

That's what you're claiming is the fatal flaw? Not that her theories are bat shit crazy and in no way resemble the way our legal system works?

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:20 pm**

I've come to believe someone in the intelligence community is feeding Mensch crazy information just to see what the Trump administration does when she publishes it. Stuff that has just enough of a thread of truth in it that it makes people nervous and forces them to do things.

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:22 pm**

Fitzy wrote:
El Guapo wrote:I totally get the allure of the Taylor / Mensch "justice is swiftly coming" tweets. But the fatal flaw is that it's impossible to imagine a world where sources are leaking something that huge and explosive, and do so to Mensch and not to, say, David Farenthold.
That's what you're claiming is the fatal flaw? Not that her theories are bat shit crazy and in no way resemble the way our legal system works?

Most of the stuff she says (at least from what I have seen) *could* be true, especially if you interpret things charitable. For one, it's *possible* that Mueller's team has uncovered evidence that Bannon has been a Russian agent since 2010. If that's true then it's also *possible* that Mueller is considering a charge for Espionage; if that were the case, it's possible that there is discussion about pursuing the death penalty.

That all seems vanishingly unlikely , but none of that is (as far as I know) literally impossible. So that's what I mean when I say that the death blow to any tiny chance of this being true is who this is supposedly being leaked to.

In other words, while both are incredibly unlikely, I find it more likely to be true that Bannon is a Russian agent than that someone would leak something like that to Louise Mensch.

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:24 pm**

Smoove_B wrote:I've come to believe someone in the intelligence community is feeding Mensch crazy information just to see what the Trump administration does when she publishes it. Stuff that has just enough of a thread of truth in it that it makes people nervous and forces them to do things.

That's also possible - that she really does have "sources", but that those sources are leaking to her because they know that she's crazy / gullible enough to report crazy things.

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:31 pm**

All this needs is "Hillary did..." and this pretty much sums up what I heard from a lot more conservatives that "don't actually support Trump" than Hannity.

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:43 pm**

LordMortis wrote:All this needs is "Hillary did..." and this pretty much sums up what I heard from a lot more conservatives that "don't actually support Trump" than Hannity.

Oh, we're beyond all that. We've seriously already reached "They would have been fools NOT to collude."

By next week it'll be "Putin is an American hero who saved us from Hillary."

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:55 pm**

Trump now says his 2nd talk with Putin was about, among other things, (you guessed it!) adoption. Can these guys not even come up with unique excuses for why they met with Russians?

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:56 pm**

In a new interview with the failing New York Times, Trump demonstrates his usual tact and intelligence.

1) Attacks Jeff Sessions for recusing himself and wishes he'd never hired him (thus undermining his own Justice Dept and demonstrating the the appointment was entirely about protecting Trump from investigation).
2) Goes back to attacking Comey as well as his replacement (accusing Comey of using the Steele Dossier to threaten him).
3) Warns Mueller to stay away from investigating his family's personal finances. (Yes, he did that.)

That last is a thing of beauty. "Sure, officer, search my garage for the stolen car. But you'd better not check my crawlspace for the missing hitchhiker!"

Hopefully there will be a full transcript tomorrow.

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:52 pm**

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:Trump now says his 2nd talk with Putin was about, among other things, (you guessed it!) adoption. Can these guys not even come up with unique excuses for why they met with Russians?

Nailed it!

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:54 pm**

Putin is adopting America.

Or America is adopting Putin.

I'm not sure which is worse.

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:21 pm**

How much ya wanna bet that an adoption deal that makes the President look good and creates 'justification' for the two controversial meetings conveniently comes through in the near future?

Posted: **Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:43 pm**

Adoptions is practically a code word for the Magnitsky Act. I can believe that is what they talked about because Russia seems to be intent on dropping those particular sanctions as well as getting their compounds back which were seized because of election hacking. I think it is part legitimacy and part because the Magnitsky Act sanctions truly hurts Putin via pinching his inner circle. If there was "collusion" or a deal it would be fair to speculate it was around these issues as a quid pro quo. Though that seems rather unlikely. It'd be a touch more than light treason at that point.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:33 am**

I love that they pretend the adoption halt is the major issue requiring US-Russia engagement, and that that's what they're hammering out.

It's like meeting secretly with North Korea and claiming it was to deal with Yalu barge traffic.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:40 am**

This probably fits in this thread, given all the cheerleading Fox News does for Trump, but holy shit, more Louise Mensch insanity.

https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status ... 6457891841

Fox News under FBI FARA investigation? Prosecution is probable for Sean Hannity, who is on "signals intelligence" due to his actions? All the lulz.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:46 am**

I take no pleasure in seeing someone go through a public break from reality. Being sincere. She's obviously got some mental problems and I hope she gets help.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:22 am**

tjg_marantz wrote:I take no pleasure in seeing someone go through a public break from reality. Being sincere. She's obviously got some mental problems and I hope she gets help.

It's more likely that she's just selling herself out to be the liberal version of Infowars. It works for Alex Jones why can't it work for her.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:30 am**

Yeah, she's making a buck by generating headlines, just like a Rush, Hannity or Breitbart. Truth is a far distant factor for her.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:02 am**

Mueller expanding probe to include Trump businesses.

The U.S. special counsel investigating possible ties between the Donald Trump campaign and Russia in last year’s election is examining a broad range of transactions involving Trump’s businesses as well as those of his associates, according to a person familiar with the probe.

The president told the New York Times on Wednesday that any digging into matters beyond Russia would be out of bounds. Trump’s businesses have involved Russians for years, making the boundaries fuzzy so Special Counsel Robert Mueller appears to be taking a wide-angle approach to his two-month-old probe.

FBI investigators and others are looking at Russian purchases of apartments in Trump buildings, Trump’s involvement in a controversial SoHo development with Russian associates, the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow and Trump’s sale of a Florida mansion to a Russian oligarch in 2008, the person said.

Trump to fire Mueller in 3...2...1...

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:03 am**

I'm going to guess that the NY Times knew this was happening. Thus, the question. They kind of set him up.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:05 am**

hepcat wrote:Yeah, she's making a buck by generating headlines, just like a Rush, Hannity or Breitbart. Truth is a far distant factor for her.

The primary difference being that even those of us who are liberal (and therefore on "her side") think she's entirely batshit crazy. We aren't taking her looney conspiracies as gospel, and going out to shoot up pizza parlors because of the garbage she's peddling.

Critical thinking skills, and all that.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:07 am**

She is gaining an audience though. Will it be Infowars size eventually? Who knows but she does seem to have found herself a niche.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:07 am**

Skinypupy wrote:Mueller expanding probe to include Trump businesses.

So many new, fresh rugs to check under for dirt. With resounding loyalty, I'm sure his staff will stand tall before investigators and take hits for the home team, right?

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:10 am**

Again, you're assuming the general public is the target audience for whatever she's writing. I get the distinct impression she believes what she's typing and that her information is coming from what she considers reliable resources. I really think someone in the intelligence community is feeding her nuggets of truth, knowing she'll whip that information up into a lather. Then, the IC waits to see what happens when she publishes her stories. Not for anything, but it's become rather predicable - Fox News (by way of Fox and Friends) reports something, and then fearless leader Tweets his thoughts. Since he seemingly can't stop saying really, really stupid things via social media (and now NYT interviews) feeding Mensch information might be paying off.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:38 pm**

Skinypupy wrote:Mueller expanding probe to include Trump businesses.

The U.S. special counsel investigating possible ties between the Donald Trump campaign and Russia in last year’s election is examining a broad range of transactions involving Trump’s businesses as well as those of his associates, according to a person familiar with the probe.

The president told the New York Times on Wednesday that any digging into matters beyond Russia would be out of bounds. Trump’s businesses have involved Russians for years, making the boundaries fuzzy so Special Counsel Robert Mueller appears to be taking a wide-angle approach to his two-month-old probe.

FBI investigators and others are looking at Russian purchases of apartments in Trump buildings, Trump’s involvement in a controversial SoHo development with Russian associates, the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow and Trump’s sale of a Florida mansion to a Russian oligarch in 2008, the person said.
Trump to fire Mueller in 3...2...1...

My exact comment to a friend when I told him about this story was, "Shall we begin the countdown before Trump fires Mueller?".

My thought is, if Trump really has nothing to hide, why is he obstructing people from doing their jobs? But then again, he has loads to hide, so....

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:43 pm**

That'd be beyond ugly. The Senate GOP has been hiding behind Mueller to defend their hands off nature so far. Without him they'd lose their favorite shield. It is sad that I think at this point I could easily bet that they'd just make up some other excuse and take up ACA repeal again to distract.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:19 pm**

malchior wrote:That'd be beyond ugly. The Senate GOP has been hiding behind Mueller to defend their hands off nature so far. Without him they'd lose their favorite shield. It is sad that I think at this point I could easily bet that they'd just make up some other excuse and take up ACA repeal again to distract.

At this point, however, I expect they're counting on most people not really caring. We here are active and informed, but the general populace - especially those who are Trump supporters (passive or active) - seem to simply be tired of hearing about Russia. It just ends up being "noise", which is exactly what they want.

Sadly, I have a sneaking suspicion that what we would view as a gross abuse of power would be met with a collective 'meh', especially once the GOP got through spinning it as they always do ("He serves at the pleasure of the President. This is entirely normal. Etc")

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:22 pm**

pr0ner wrote:
Skinypupy wrote:Mueller expanding probe to include Trump businesses.

The U.S. special counsel investigating possible ties between the Donald Trump campaign and Russia in last year’s election is examining a broad range of transactions involving Trump’s businesses as well as those of his associates, according to a person familiar with the probe.

The president told the New York Times on Wednesday that any digging into matters beyond Russia would be out of bounds. Trump’s businesses have involved Russians for years, making the boundaries fuzzy so Special Counsel Robert Mueller appears to be taking a wide-angle approach to his two-month-old probe.

FBI investigators and others are looking at Russian purchases of apartments in Trump buildings, Trump’s involvement in a controversial SoHo development with Russian associates, the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow and Trump’s sale of a Florida mansion to a Russian oligarch in 2008, the person said.
Trump to fire Mueller in 3...2...1...
My exact comment to a friend when I told him about this story was, "Shall we begin the countdown before Trump fires Mueller?".

My thought is, if Trump really has nothing to hide, why is he obstructing people from doing their jobs? But then again, he has loads to hide, so....

Tries to fire Mueller. I suspect that any move to obstruct would actually trigger a massive firestorm which would likely end the Trump administration.

Which I could actually see him doing if the investigation imperils his personal empire, which appears to be a distinct possibility.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:28 pm**

Is it clear that Trump has the authority to fire Mueller? I thought the acting AG overseeing the Russia investigation, Rosenstein, would have to do it. But if he refused, and then Trump canned him, wouldn't the shitstorm be so great that he'd have a hard time appointing someone who agrees to do it?

It seems almost inevitable that Trump is going to try to sack Mueller (and hopefully Mueller knows this and is preparing for it), but I'm wondering how it happens if/when it happens.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:01 pm**

I think that's so. Trump can't fire Mueller, he can only order Rosenstein to do so. If Rosenstein refuses, he gets fired and replaced with someone who'll do it.

That's the Nixonian Saturday Night Massacre scenario (which landed on a compliant Robert Bork, who was promised a Supreme Court seat in exchange for his soul).

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:02 pm**

That was my understanding as well. Nixon didn't get in hot water for firing the special prosecutor (because he couldn't), but for trying to order the AG to fire the special prosecutor, leading the AG and Deputy AG to resign.

edit: Beaten by Holman!

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:02 pm**

And it worked out so well for him.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:29 pm**

Um, does Trump's hand gesture mean what I think it means? I think he may be more involved with Putin that we realized....

edit: damn it, now why didn't that Tweet embed?

edit: Ah ha! Thanks Isg!

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:34 pm**

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:

Um, does Trump's hand gesture mean what I think it means? I think he may be more involved with Putin that we realized....

edit: damn it, now why didn't that Tweet embed?

Anything after the end of the tweet number, including a /, breaks the tweet tag.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:15 pm**

What are my pardon powers? Just asking for a friend. Oh and start making a list of Mueller sins please. I have a signature line I need to deliver pronto.

Touched in the WaPo piece as well but Trump's lawyers are complaining about Mueller looking at financial transactions related to Russian dealings in the real estate empire as well.

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:51 pm**

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:15 pm**

BREAKING: the country.

Seriously, this is nut-so. It really seems we're spiralling towards uncharted territory here...

Posted: **Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:12 pm**

We have been there since the inauguration. His conflicts were there day one. It is just stretching to the breaking point now. If he fires Mueller it will fall onto the GOP to police him. I personally really don't want that to happen.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:59 am**

Trump Jr., Manafort Asked to Testify July 26 by Senate Panel

And not just them...

The Judiciary Committee wants any record of interactions before and after last year’s meeting with Russians. It also goes far broader, seeking records relating to dozens of other people including Russian President Vladimir Putin, numerous other Russians, and even Green Party candidate Jill Stein.

Posted: **Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:36 pm**

What a shocker! Sessions discussed campaign matters with the Russians.

Russia’s ambassador to Washington told his superiors in Moscow that he discussed campaign-related matters, including policy issues important to Moscow, with Jeff Sessions during the 2016 presidential race, contrary to public assertions by the embattled attorney general, according to current and former U.S. officials.

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