BSG Boardgame 2: All of this has happened before...

[El Guapo]

One correction: Cavil's handsize is currently 0, not 5, on account of his disadvantage.

Also Apollo's is technically 3 at this point, though it will increase to five when he selects his two card types.

[Grundbegriff]

Apollo receives 1 Supercrisis card. He must now choose one human player to pass all his remaining loyalty cards to.

What is this move for? I've read this in the rules, but it's unclear to me why this happens. They have no effect on the recipient, right? So what's the point?

[El Guapo]

Apollo receives 1 Supercrisis card. He must now choose one human player to pass all his remaining loyalty cards to.

What is this move for? I've read this in the rules, but it's unclear to me why this happens. They have no effect on the recipient, right? So what's the point?

Theoretically stessier could have drawn both cylon cards. His unrevealed one would go to someone else and make them a cylon. presumably this is to diminish the cylons getting screwed in such a scenario.

[Grundbegriff]

Apollo receives 1 Supercrisis card. He must now choose one human player to pass all his remaining loyalty cards to.

What is this move for? I've read this in the rules, but it's unclear to me why this happens. They have no effect on the recipient, right? So what's the point?

Theoretically stessier could have drawn both cylon cards. His unrevealed one would go to someone else and make them a cylon. presumably this is to diminish the cylons getting screwed in such a scenario.

So you're saying the recipient could be converted into a Cylon by that?

[Remus West]

Apollo receives 1 Supercrisis card. He must now choose one human player to pass all his remaining loyalty cards to.

What is this move for? I've read this in the rules, but it's unclear to me why this happens. They have no effect on the recipient, right? So what's the point?

Theoretically stessier could have drawn both cylon cards. His unrevealed one would go to someone else and make them a cylon. presumably this is to diminish the cylons getting screwed in such a scenario.

Yep. Happened for me once. I got both cards, revealed and converted the Admiral to my side right before an important jump - which then went poorly for the humans.

[Turtle]

The rule listed in the first post for this game about not doing the loyalty hand off after 6 distance was a house rule for the group I pulled this text from. We will play it that way. But I'll reevaluate that for the next game when I add in the Exodus expansion.

[stessier]

Apollo will take an Engineering and Piloting card.

[El Guapo]

The rule listed in the first post for this game about not doing the loyalty hand off after 6 distance was a house rule for the group I pulled this text from. We will play it that way. But I'll reevaluate that for the next game when I add in the Exodus expansion.

Seems reasonable. I'd wager that the rule came about because a cylon revealed on the last turn shortly before a human victory, and someone got upset because they went from the winning team to the losing team and couldn't do anything about it (nor did they have a shot to prevent the humans from winning).

[stessier]

I'm going to play my Super Crisis. I'd like to hear which option Chaos thinks I should pick.

[stessier]

I'm going to play my Super Crisis. I'd like to hear which option Chaos thinks I should pick.

Heh - nevermind. President chooses. This should be interesting.

Okay - playing the Super Crisis.

[El Guapo]

I'm going to play my Super Crisis. I'd like to hear which option Chaos thinks I should pick.

Heh - nevermind. President chooses. This should be interesting.

Okay - playing the Super Crisis.

Well...don't keep us in suspense. Post what the Super Crisis is!

[stessier]

Well...don't keep us in suspense. Post what the Super Crisis is!

Fine, fine, fine. Meatbags - always so impatient!

Psychological Warfare
President Chooses
-1 Morale, each player discards 2 skill cards and draws 2 Treachery cards.
OR
Each revealed Cylon player draws 2 Treachery Cards. Then, discard the entire destiny deck and build a new one consisting of only 6 Treachery cards.

[El Guapo]

Interesting. I'm inclined to support picking the first option, though I want to think about it some more. I have low cards to toss so that wouldn't be a big loss from my perspective. The -1 morale isn't a big deal since we have plenty of it. There's only one more cylon out there that we don't know about (and I have a fairly strong suspicion as to who it is) so the possibilities for additional hidden sabotage aren't great. Plus there's that one card that makes all treachery cards count positive (although I think it's a 'reckless' card).

So I think the penalties that we'd get on skill checks under the first option are less than the penalties that we'd get under the second option, where we'd be essentially guaranteed that both destiny cards would hurt us for three skill checks.

One question: "each player" under the first option includes each revealed cylon player, right? So Apollo and Cavil would also discard and draw?

Honestly, this isn't nearly as bad as I was fearing. Some "super" crisis, you worthless hunk of metal!

[Remus West]

I'd go with the 2nd option as discarding treachery allows Cylons to play cards that damage Galactica and using them in skillchecks that are reckless trigger them - thus a Cylon could make a skill check reckless simply to set off the treachery cards. The second option simply means we are aware that the next three skill checks will be negatively impacted by the Destiny deck. I think this will hurt less in the long run than each of us trying to ditch the 2 cards we would draw (and the eadditional cost of 2 cards apiece spent to "gain" those treachery cards).

I'm not overly worried about the Crisis at this point as long as they have jump symbols. With Baltar going next - and iirc he said he had a repair. We should have an operational Engine room on his turn.

[Remus West]

Revealed Cylons typically are not impacted by Crisis so I would think the "each player" only means those of us in the human fleet area - the Humans and the one concealed Cylon.

[Scoop20906]

Yeah, I can repair the engine room next turn if thats what everyone wants.

[El Guapo]

I'd go with the 2nd option as discarding treachery allows Cylons to play cards that damage Galactica and using them in skillchecks that are reckless trigger them - thus a Cylon could make a skill check reckless simply to set off the treachery cards. The second option simply means we are aware that the next three skill checks will be negatively impacted by the Destiny deck. I think this will hurt less in the long run than each of us trying to ditch the 2 cards we would draw (and the eadditional cost of 2 cards apiece spent to "gain" those treachery cards).

I'm not overly worried about the Crisis at this point as long as they have jump symbols. With Baltar going next - and iirc he said he had a repair. We should have an operational Engine room on his turn.

Good points per usual - I forgot that discarding treachery cards can set them off. Actually there is one benefit to the second option that I didn't realize at first - our hidden cylon doesn't have treachery card. Next turn Cavil doesn't have any cards at all. And Apollo can only contribute one card to skill checks now, right? So if on Baltar's crisis negative non-treachery cards show up then that shows sabotage and should drastically limit the suspects (which are fairly low in number to begin with).

We can't necessarily count on Baltar to repair the engine, though - I think the remaining cylon has to be either him or Dee. So I'm not sure we should rest our plans on that.

One other benefit to the second option is that if Baltar is a cylon and if he reveals on his turn, then Cavil would lose the two cards he draws here, which would mitigate some of the harm from that. And if he doesn't then we get a repaired engine (most likely).

[Remus West]

I'm not counting on Baltar but I did want to double check that he could repair it for us (nothing we could do had he posted "screw you guys I'm helping with nothing" then revealed on his turn). I agree with the final Cylon being either him or Dee. We do need that Engine room repaired asap though. 3 turns with it repaired and activated is all we need to win.

[El Guapo]

Ok I'm leaning more towards the second option too, though I'd be fine with either. One question: there's no way for the treachery cards in the destiny deck to make a check reckless, right? That has to be through pre-check cards?

[El Guapo]

Just looked at the rules - the destiny deck cannot make a skill check reckless. HOWEVER, treachery cards revealed in a reckless skill check cause their negative effects. So the cylons could make the next three skill checks reckless (if they have the cards), and then use any negative effects thereof that come out of the destiny deck.

That's disconcerting.

[Chaosraven]

An unrevealed or infiltrating Cylon can make the check reckless, setting off one copy of any treachry trigger in the check. Revealed Cylons may not play the text of nontreachery cards. Meaning the unrevealed could make the next three reckless with precheck and trigger those added by the destiny deck. Or by any players.

[Remus West]

Just looked at the rules - the destiny deck cannot make a skill check reckless. HOWEVER, treachery cards revealed in a reckless skill check cause their negative effects. So the cylons could make the next three skill checks reckless (if they have the cards), and then use any negative effects thereof that come out of the destiny deck.

That's disconcerting.

Revealed Cylons can not make a skill check reckless as they can not use the text on the cards.

[El Guapo]

ah. This is good to know. And if our unrevealed cylon made a check reckless that would make them obvious and we could promptly brig/execute him or her. So that probably wouldn't happen more than once.

That makes me feel better.

[Chaosraven]

Given that option, the unrevealed would simply make the next three reckless, throw in negative cards, and trust the humans are too busy trying to make the jump icons to waste their turn.

[stessier]

Or our Fearless leader could infiltrate to wreak some havoc as well.

[El Guapo]

Fair enough. Though in any event after the first reckless check we'd know who the hidden cylon is, and have the option but not the obligation to throw said cylon out the airlock depending upon our priorities.

[Chaosraven]

Or our Fearless leader could infiltrate to wreak some havoc as well.

heh. Perhaps the MechaXO treachery card! Revealed cylons may take two actions...

[El Guapo]

Or our Fearless leader could infiltrate to wreak some havoc as well.

heh. Perhaps the MechaXO treachery card! Revealed cylons may take two actions...

Is there a treachery card that does that?

[stessier]

Or our Fearless leader could infiltrate to wreak some havoc as well.

heh. Perhaps the MechaXO treachery card! Revealed cylons may take two actions...

Is there a treachery card that does that?

Multiple ones!

[stessier]

See, this is why I let Turtle reveal stuff.

Was I supposed to move before playing the Supercrisis?

[Remus West]

See, this is why I let Turtle reveal stuff.

Was I supposed to move before playing the Supercrisis?

You had to move to be able to play it. You can not play Super Crisis cards from the resurrection ship.

BTW, from the OP:
Treachery

• Broadcast Location - Reckless Skill Check: Place 1 basestar in front of Galactica and 1 civilian ship behind Galactica. Only 1 of this ability may be resolved in each Skill Check. [8 x Strength 1]
• By Your Command - Reckless Skill Check: Activate all Raiders, Heavy Raiders, and Occupation Forces (but not Centurions). Only 1 of this ability may be resolved in each Skill Check. [4 x Strength 1]
• Special Destiny - Reckless Skill Check: Each player draws 1 Treachery Skill Card. Only 1 of this ability may be resolved in each Skill Check. [5 x Strength 2]
• God’s Plan - Movement: Exchange this card with the top card of the Destiny Deck. [3 x Strength 2]
• Sabotage - Play when a human player discards a Treachery Skill Card. Damage Galactica once. Only 1 "Sabotage" card may be used per turn. [4 x Strength 3]
• Human Weakness - Action: If at least one human player is in the "Brig" or "Detention Center", reduce the highest resource by 1. [2 x Strength 3]

So stop lying regarding what treachery cards can do.

[El Guapo]

See, this is why I let Turtle reveal stuff.

Was I supposed to move before playing the Supercrisis?

You're supposed to move before acting.

As far as I'm concerned you can pick your movement now. As Remus says I suppose you have to. Edit: looking at the locations you can only play your super crisis from Caprica. So...welcome to scenic Caprica!

[El Guapo]

None of those treachery cards seems all that bad under the circumstances in the hands of the cylons. So yeah, I'm more and more leaning towards option 2.

[stessier]

So stop lying regarding what treachery cards can do.

But, but - psychological warfare was played!

[stessier]

As far as I'm concerned you can pick your movement now. As Remus says I suppose you have to. Edit: looking at the locations you can only play your super crisis from Caprica. So...welcome to scenic Caprica!

Ah, well okay then!

[Remus West]

None of those treachery cards seems all that bad under the circumstances in the hands of the cylons. So yeah, I'm more and more leaning towards option 2.

From my perspective, Sabotage is the worst as it gives them a chance to take out the FTL or the Engine Room (post repair). Thus we do not want to end up with treachery cards in hand to attempt to discard. Which means taking the 2nd option.

[El Guapo]

None of those treachery cards seems all that bad under the circumstances in the hands of the cylons. So yeah, I'm more and more leaning towards option 2.

From my perspective, Sabotage is the worst as it gives them a chance to take out the FTL or the Engine Room (post repair). Thus we do not want to end up with treachery cards in hand to attempt to discard. Which means taking the 2nd option.

Fair enough. Under what circumstances would we *have* to discard treachery cards if we had them? I suppose if we only had treachery cards and the crisis forces a discard. Any others?

In any event I'm persuaded on option 2.

[Remus West]

None of those treachery cards seems all that bad under the circumstances in the hands of the cylons. So yeah, I'm more and more leaning towards option 2.

From my perspective, Sabotage is the worst as it gives them a chance to take out the FTL or the Engine Room (post repair). Thus we do not want to end up with treachery cards in hand to attempt to discard. Which means taking the 2nd option.

Fair enough. Under what circumstances would we *have* to discard treachery cards if we had them? I suppose if we only had treachery cards and the crisis forces a discard. Any others?

In any event I'm persuaded on option 2.

I'm thinking thattrading two cards I currently have for two treachery cards is a use of the Engine room I can not do without discarding the treachery. Or movement between ships.

[Remus West]

basically I don't want to be stuck needing to discard a card to do an action and be limited to treachery cards. Nothing really "forces" discards save Crisis outcomes potentially.

[Grundbegriff]

Reading....