The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[Blackhawk]

On the bright side, my constant searching for terminology has probably confused the crap out of Google in regards to how to advertise to me.

[Smoove_B]

Oh boy

EXCLUSIVE: ABC News has obtained video from Georgia prosecutors' interview with ex-Trump attorney Jenna Ellis, in which Ellis tells them she was personally informed by a top Trump adviser that Trump was "not going to leave" the White House — despite losing the 2020 election.

[El Guapo]

Man, never read the comments. 95% of them are either "she's lying" or "But Trump left on time, so how is this an issue?"

[hepcat]

....except for my favorite comment which states she got Covid after Rudy Giuliani farted on her in that infamous courtroom video.

[El Guapo]

....except for my favorite comment which states she got Covid after Rudy Giuliani farted on her in that infamous courtroom video.

There are always the diamonds in the rough.

[malchior]

The Fulton CA DA's office is apparently furious about the leak of these videos and filed for a protective order arguing in part that they are witness tampering. Apparently they were proffer videos available to the other defendants and there wasn't a protective order in place. I'll leave it to others to know if that was a mistake, etc.

[El Guapo]

The Fulton CA DA's office is apparently furious about the leak of these videos and filed for a protective order arguing that they are witness tampering.

Makes sense. I was wondering about the source of these. I do wonder a bit about the motive. Is the likely hope to put a target on Ellis's head among the MAGA faithful?

[malchior]

The DA's office has not leaked at all. They also have no reason so it does logically narrow it to the defendants. Some people are speculating it might be someone higher up the food chain to stop people from continuing to plead out. It is in the best interests of the rest to hold firm if they can. I would suspect John Barron himself or one of his merry mob of unethical lawyers.

[El Guapo]

The DA's office has not leaked at all. They also have no reason so it does logically narrow it to the defendants. Some people are speculating it might be someone higher up the food chain to stop people from continuing to plead out. It is in the best interests of the rest to hold firm if they can. I would suspect John Barron himself or one of his merry mob of unethical lawyers.

I suppose there's a bit of a wildcard in that it's possible that someone from the A/V company or the like leaked it for the lulz, glory, or some ideological nonsense.

[Isgrimnur]

Lawyer for Trump co-defendant in Georgia case admits leaking witness videos

Jonathan Miller, an attorney for Misty Hampton, made the confession during an emergency hearing for a protective order that was prompted by the publication of parts of the video statements of Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis, Kenneth Chesebro and Scott Hall by ABC News and The Washington Post. The judge said he would issue a protective order barring the disclosure of certain discovery information by Thursday morning.
...
Asked why he'd done so, he noted that while the four's guilty pleas were public, "to hide those proffers, that show all the underlying things went into those pleas, it misleads the public about what's going on."

He said two of the defendants "were directly related to my client. And I don’t believe that either one of those hurt my client. If anything, I believe they help my client and the public needs to know that.”

"The public has a right to know," he added.
...
In a separate filing Wednesday, the DA's office urged the court to revoke the bond of defendant Harrison Floyd, the former head of Black Voices for Trump, arguing that he had violated the conditions of his release.

The DA's office said that Floyd had "publicly tweeted multiple times" this month in an effort to "intimidate codefendants and witnesses, to communicate directly and indirectly with codefendants and witnesses, and to otherwise obstruct the administration of justice."

[malchior]

That explanation is fairly weak. It doesn't seem like a compelling reason to leak the videos.

[El Guapo]

That explanation is fairly weak. It doesn't seem like a compelling reason to leak the videos.

Did the lawyer break any rules or laws by leaking them? Obviously a protective order wasn't in place at that point. At the same time it's the kind of thing whose confidentiality is I assume protected by state law. Like I'd think that the lawyer would at least be at risk of getting disbarred. Though I don't know this area of law all that well.

[malchior]

People are yelling FELONY! but it seems like there was nothing preventing him from doing so. I guess someone might be able to argue there is some sort of an ethics violation in there if you squint hard enough.

[Jaymon]

[El Guapo]

People are yelling FELONY! but it seems like there was nothing preventing him from doing so. I guess someone might be able to argue there is some sort of an ethics violation in there if you squint hard enough.

Obviously nothing in the system works exactly normally when Trump is involved, but this sounds like the sort of thing that should prompt a state bar ethics probe, at a minimum. But like I said this is well outside my expertise so I don't really know.

[malchior]

The appeal hearing of the Chutkan gag order was held today. From what I read it sounded like they seemed to be leaning to leaving it in place but ordering a narrowing of the scope a little.

[El Guapo]

Seems generally reasonable.

[Unagi]

The appeal hearing of the Chutkan gag order was held today. From what I read it sounded like they seemed to be leaning to leaving it in place but ordering a narrowing of the scope a little.

It's like making the bulls-eye smaller and smaller, but the archer is a marksman who can hit dead-center at will.

[El Guapo]

Honestly I think the fundamental problem with the gag order is not the scope issues, but that if you're not ultimately willing to jail Trump for contempt over violations of it, or at least to set truly massive fines (in the millions), then it's fundamentally meaningless in the end anyway.

[Smoove_B]

Ultimately, that will be his legacy. In other words, whatever happens next is going to happen because we are largely unwilling to incarcerate politicians that reach some magical level. If he defrauded American millionaires or investors? Maybe. But all this other stuff? Nah, he's good.

[Unagi]

Honestly I think the fundamental problem with the gag order is not the scope issues, but that if you're not ultimately willing to jail Trump for contempt over violations of it, or at least to set truly massive fines (in the millions), then it's fundamentally meaningless in the end anyway.

That's what I mean, by that ever-restricting bullseye. They will just keep saying what he did was just outside the 'new scope' of the gag order, so as to keep giving themselves an out - and not actually do anything about it.

[El Guapo]

Honestly I think the fundamental problem with the gag order is not the scope issues, but that if you're not ultimately willing to jail Trump for contempt over violations of it, or at least to set truly massive fines (in the millions), then it's fundamentally meaningless in the end anyway.

That's what I mean, by that ever-restricting bullseye. They will just keep saying what he did was just outside the 'new scope' of the gag order, so as to keep giving themselves an out - and not actually do anything about it.

Ah, I see. I do think that they will find a couple violations, which will be punished by fines which will be paid with money falling out of Trump's pocket, FWIW.

[waitingtoconnect]

This whole trump circus is just insane. Every news space I watch it’s all trump trump trump trump trump. And always referred to as president not ex president even on msnbc.

You can’t even get respite on late night TV. Mock the current president ffs not the old one.

Clearly in the media space at least he is still defacto president of this country. Biden gets barely a look in.

[LordMortis]

This whole trump circus is just insane. Every news space I watch it’s all trump trump trump trump trump. And always referred to as president not ex president even on msnbc.

You can’t even get respite on late night TV. Mock the current president ffs not the old one.

Clearly in the media space at least he is still defacto president of this country. Biden gets barely a look in.

In fairness (as if he deserves any) we don't refer to any of the presidents as ex presidents. I watch CNBC and they concentrate on alter ego Musk and mostly only use TFG as a foil to how much they hate Biden when they need to get political about the economy during Squak Box editorial interviews led by Joe rants.

[GreenGoo]

In fairness (as if he deserves any) we don't refer to any of the presidents as ex presidents.

This. Totally normal, but only noticeable now because we so desperately want to forget he exists.

[Blackhawk]

I think it's exacerbated with Trump because of his misuse of the title by claiming that he was still President after he had lost. Calling him President feels like we're supporting his narrative, even though, in practice, it's normal.

[GreenGoo]

I think it's exacerbated with Trump because of his misuse of the title by claiming that he was still President after he had lost. Calling him President feels like we're supporting his narrative, even though, in practice, it's normal.

Definitely.

[Smoove_B]

Oh look, someone spoiled the next plot twist:

And, here it is: Fulton County Judge McAfee: If your client wins the presidency, can this case be tried?

Sadow (Trump's lawyer): I believe under the Supremacy clause this trial would not take place at all until he left the WH

[Octavious]

Well I mean I think we all know the cases will get dropped if he wins. So it's going to be a super fun election season. Trump loses his life is ruined. Trump wins everyone aside from his lifes are ruined. So I'm voting 3rd party. I think Biden is too old.

[Smoove_B]

Indeed. Seems the current plan is to try and delay until he's the nominee. Then once he's the nominee, delay until he's elected. Once elected, nothing matters ever again.

Even if (big if) something happens to him before November of 2024 making him too cold and stiff to serve as the President, this entire charade has exposed the Achilles' heel of our democratic system - our unwillingness to hold very specific people accountable based on their status in our society. He might be the first to make it so overtly obvious, but that just tells me the next time it's going to be worse - orchestrated by someone even smarter and backed by even more powerful people. I am still astounded by the people shrugging their shoulders over what's happening because it feels blindingly obvious that we're careening into a horrific situation - with our eyes wide open.

[Alefroth]

How will the GA case get dropped if he's elected?

[LordMortis]

Indeed. Seems the current plan is to try and delay until he's the nominee. Then once he's the nominee, delay until he's elected. Once elected, nothing matters ever again.

Even if (big if) something happens to him before November of 2024 making him too cold and stiff to serve as the President, this entire charade has exposed the Achilles' heel of our democratic system - our unwillingness to hold very specific people accountable based on their status in our society. He might be the first to make it so overtly obvious, but that just tells me the next time it's going to be worse - orchestrated by someone even smarter and backed by even more powerful people. I am still astounded by the people shrugging their shoulders over what's happening because it feels blindingly obvious that we're careening into a horrific situation - with our eyes wide open.

Traditional and establishment conservatives keep selling parts of their souls to the nuts and they are taking the soul of the nation with them. The standard grift and corruption now have to deal with Trumps and Geatz' and Boeberts and MTGs while Ohio entrenches their redness, making it easier for the Jordans to Sound and Fury while playing for Thiels'.

[El Guapo]

How will the GA case get dropped if he's elected?

It wouldn't necessarily, but viable tools that Trump / GOP could use include:

(1) Pressuring the GA state legislature to take various actions to shut down the prosecution;
(2) Making various 'separation of counsel' and other constitutional arguments in court based on him being president;
(3) all else fails, Trump can just refuse to show up, not return to Georgia again, and dare anyone to do something about it.

[Isgrimnur]

Trump not immune from Capitol riot lawsuits, appeals court rules, opening door to monetary damages

“The President ... does not spend every minute of every day exercising official responsibilities,” Chief Judge Sri Srinivasan wrote in the opinion Friday for the three-judge panel on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.

“And when he acts outside the functions of his office, he does not continue to enjoy immunity from damages liability just because he happens to be the President.”

Srinivasan noted that Trump did not dispute that he engaged in his alleged actions up to and on Jan. 6 in his capacity as a candidate.

“But he thinks that does not matter,” Srinivasan wrote.

[malchior]

Now Chutkin applies the same logic to the criminal trial.

[Isgrimnur]

Trump gag order in 2020 election case largely upheld by appeals court

A federal appeals court on Friday reinstated key aspects of a gag order limiting what former President Donald Trump can say in the case involving his alleged attempts to thwart the transfer of power after the 2020 presidential election

The unanimous three-judge panel for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld the order from U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan to the extent that it prohibits the former president from making public statements about potential witnesses in the case "concerning their potential participation in the investigation or in this criminal proceeding." He is also barred from commenting about lawyers in the case other than the special counsel, members of court staff and lawyers' staff, and their family members.

Trump can, however, make statements criticizing the Biden administration, the Justice Department and special counsel Jack Smith. He can also continue claiming that the prosecution is politically motivated and that he is innocent of the four charges against him.

"We do not allow such an order lightly," U.S. Circuit Court Judge Patricia Millet wrote in an opinion for the court. "Mr. Trump is a former president and current candidate for the presidency, and there is a strong public interest in what he has to say. But Mr. Trump is also an indicted criminal defendant, and he must stand trial in a courtroom under the same procedures that govern all other criminal defendants. That is what the rule of law means."

[Isgrimnur]

Special counsel asks Supreme Court to immediately decide if Trump is immune from Jan. 6 prosecution

Special counsel Jack Smith on Monday asked the Supreme Court to immediately step in to decide whether former President Donald Trump has immunity from prosecution for his actions seeking to overturn the 2020 election.

"This case presents a fundamental question at the heart of our democracy: whether a former President is absolutely immune from federal prosecution for crimes committed while in office," Smith wrote in the court filing.

Smith said it was "of imperative public importance" that the high court decide the question so that Trump's trial, currently scheduled for March, can move forward as quickly as possible.

[El Guapo]

ugh, this makes me nervous. Maybe it's inevitable that the SCOTUS weighs in on this eventually, but I don't love handing them an immunity wand. I also worry about them taking advantage of this to save Trump procedurally, which is the kind of thing that SCOTUS loves to do. Like what if they take up the appeal but set a hearing date of like October 2024 and then issue a decision in Dec. 2024?

[Smoove_B]

It was going to happen anyway, he's just trying to short-circuit what he knew was coming. If he can establish immunity, then we're done. Or alternatively, Biden could...handle the problem and have no worries, because immunity.

[El Guapo]

It was going to happen anyway, he's just trying to short-circuit what he knew was coming. If he can establish immunity, then we're done. Or alternatively, Biden could...handle the problem and have no worries, because immunity.

Yeah, I know. And FWIW Jack Smith seems to be doing a good job from what I can tell, and obviously knows more about this stuff than I do, so I generally trust his judgment at this point.

But you know...still makes me nervous.