Secret Hitler II - The Revenge of Hitler - Game On

[RMC]

Well I am not, but what are the odds that he got 3 Fascist policies.

Higher now than at any other time in the game?

Har Dee har har.

[Vorret]

Was at the gym.

I got FFF, epic luck for a first draw.

Who do you guys want me to scan?

[Vorret]

I'm not scanning RMC he had no choice in going with an F policy.

[Zarathud]

Plus, RMC's a Fascist.

[Grundbegriff]

Deck 1: FFFFFFFFFFFLLLLLL
Enactment 1 (F)
1.1: Discards
1.1.a. Discards if FFF: FF <-- according to Pres. Vorret (Vorret either, RMC either)
1.1.b. Discards if FFL: FL (Vorret Fascist, RMC either)
1.1.c. Discards if FLL: LL (Vorret Fascist, RMC Fascist)
1.2: Talon
1.2.a. Talon if FFF: FFFFFFFFLLLLLL <-- according to Pres. Vorret (Vorret either, RMC either)
1.2.b. Talon if FFL: FFFFFFFFFLLLLL (Vorret Fascist, RMC either)
1.2.c. Talon if FLL: FFFFFFFFFFLLLL (Vorret Fascist, RMC Fascist)

[Scoop20906]

I'm not scanning RMC he had no choice in going with an F policy.

I offer to be scanned.

[Grundbegriff]

I would suggest we decide who is going to be chancellor next round and have him scan THAT player.

We cannot control the next president's choice. In theory, we could have one person scanned and then the next prez could decline to choose that person, if declared Liberal, by claiming not to trust the scanner.

I think it may make more sense to have the next president (Remus West) scanned. There's no getting out of the line of succession (except by special election later), so knowing what Vorret says about Remus West binds them permanently together in a logical cluster.

If we decide we trust Vorret, we can also trust his scan; if we decide we doubt him, we can doubt what he says about his scan. But either way, he'll have to go on record about Remus, and we'll be able to interpret unfolding events in that light.

[Moliere]

I'm not scanning RMC he had no choice in going with an F policy.

I offer to be scanned.

I scanned you before the election. You're a fascist.

[Vorret]

Yeah sure, Remus is always a good scan.
Sleep on it, I'll check the thread tomorrow AM and send my scan order around 8:00am east.

[El Guapo]

Man, Vorret really hops to when Grund makes a suggestion, huh?

Anyway, Remus is as fine a choice as any. Another option would be to scan Holman, then if he comes up liberal then Remus could pick him as chancellor, and if he comes back fascist then Remus could pick someone else then we could skip him as president on the ballot following Remus.

That's assuming that we believe Vorret, of course, since the scan's value in the short term is contingent on Vorret's credibility.

[Holman]

I'm happy to be scanned. It keeps me in the news.

[RMC]

Plus, RMC's a Fascist.

At least I am not a Tax Attorney.

Love ya Z!

[Grundbegriff]

Everybody passes through this facility to be scanned. Purely routine. Move along now. Step. Step....

[Vorret]

Well this is going to blow up.

I just got the scan result and Remus is a Fascist.
I honestly would have preferred if he was a liberal especially after getting FFF on my first draw.

Oh well, I'm ok with being put in a corner with a big "unsafe" tag !

[bb2112]

Players:
1. Moliere
2. El Guapo
3. Chaosraven
4. Stessier
5. Grundbegriff
6. Vorret
7. Remus West <============= President
8. Holman
9. RMC
10. Scoop20906

10 players:

• 6 Liberals
• 3 normal Fascists
• 1 Hitler Fascist

Liberal Policies Passed: 0

Fascists Polices: 1
1. Vorret/RMC - Vorret scans Remus West


Remus West, who will you nominate as your Chancellor? Not of the subset {Vorret, RMC}

[stessier]

This Day 1 is way more interesting than the last time. Turns out I prefer boring - who knew?

[El Guapo]

Interesting. So is Vorret an unlucky liberal or an aggressive fascist?

[Vorret]

Interesting. So is Vorret an unlucky liberal or an aggressive fascist?

I'm having a bad month luck wise so the former makes sense!

[Remus West]

Interesting. So is Vorret an unlucky liberal or an aggressive fascist?

I'm having a bad month luck wise so the former makes sense!

Except that the fact I'm a Liberal makes the latter true.

[Scoop20906]

I'm happy to cross all three off my voting card.

[Remus West]

Well I am not, but what are the odds that he got 3 Fascist policies.

Higher now than at any other time in the game?

Har Dee har har.

Correct answer is approximately 24% on a fresh game deck.

Smart answer to Grund is that the chances of FFF go up every time we enact a Liberal policy so no, they are not higher at the start then any other time of the game.

Anyway, as far as "proof" that I'm not Fascist thats pretty weak stuff but it is all I have.

[Remus West]

I'm happy to cross all three off my voting card.

You may want to put a caution flag next to all of us but it is possible that writing all of us off simply allows a single Fascist to remove 2 Liberals from your card.

[bb2112]

Everyone stare at Remus.

[Scoop20906]

I'm happy to cross all three off my voting card.

You may want to put a caution flag next to all of us but it is possible that writing all of us off simply allows a single Fascist to remove 2 Liberals from your card.

Of course it does. But the interesting thing is that both RMC and Vorret agree on the cards. That means it much more possible you are a fascist or that they are both Fascists framing you.

[El Guapo]

I'm happy to cross all three off my voting card.

You may want to put a caution flag next to all of us but it is possible that writing all of us off simply allows a single Fascist to remove 2 Liberals from your card.

Of course it does. But the interesting thing is that both RMC and Vorret agree on the cards. That means it much more possible you are a fascist or that they are both Fascists framing you.

Technically speaking they both agree that Vorret passed FF to RMC. Only Vorret saw the initial three card draw, so it is also totally plausible that Vorret is a fascist and RMC is a liberal.

[Remus West]

I'm happy to cross all three off my voting card.

You may want to put a caution flag next to all of us but it is possible that writing all of us off simply allows a single Fascist to remove 2 Liberals from your card.

Of course it does. But the interesting thing is that both RMC and Vorret agree on the cards. That means it much more possible you are a fascist or that they are both Fascists framing you.

Technically speaking they both agree that Vorret passed FF to RMC. Only Vorret saw the initial three card draw, so it is also totally plausible that Vorret is a fascist and RMC is a liberal.

Which is my point.

However, even if the scenario were true where I'm a Fascist while they are both Liberals his choice to remove all three of us would still result in a single Fascist removing 2 Liberals. Not a good plan either way.

The only way his plan is good is if both of them are Fascist and we lose only me in return for quarantining the three of us.

[stessier]

I can't see a reason to risk letting Remus into an administration at this point.

[Vorret]

I'm happy to cross all three off my voting card.

You may want to put a caution flag next to all of us but it is possible that writing all of us off simply allows a single Fascist to remove 2 Liberals from your card.

Of course it does. But the interesting thing is that both RMC and Vorret agree on the cards. That means it much more possible you are a fascist or that they are both Fascists framing you.

Technically speaking they both agree that Vorret passed FF to RMC. Only Vorret saw the initial three card draw, so it is also totally plausible that Vorret is a fascist and RMC is a liberal.

Which is my point.

However, even if the scenario were true where I'm a Fascist while they are both Liberals his choice to remove all three of us would still result in a single Fascist removing 2 Liberals. Not a good plan either way.

The only way his plan is good is if both of them are Fascist and we lose only me in return for quarantining the three of us.

RMC is still innocent he couldn't do anything but pass an F policy.

You and me on the other hand are done, it doesn't matter that I'm L and you're F since I can't prove it, I just KNOW it, that's all!

[Scoop20906]

Go ahead and make your selection Remus b

[El Guapo]

If Vorret were a fascist, it would make total sense (if he drew FFL) to pass FF, because RMC (whether liberal or fascist) would confirm that's what he passed, and that way Vorret would control at least one of the two scans.

My question is, for a fascist in his position, how would they use a scan? Would he be more likely to use the scan to frame a liberal, to clear a fascist, or just say that an actual liberal is liberal? The first could narrow the liberal voting pool (which is what Remus is arguing is happening), the second might give some credibility to a fellow fascist, and the third would be the most cautious option (the fascist wouldn't get pushback from a framed liberal, among other things).

[El Guapo]

Go ahead and make your selection Remus b

Yeah in any event we need to move forward with the Remus ticket (though it seems probable that it will be voted down). Not sure who to suggest, other than not Holman (since we don't know anything about him and he's the next president). Maybe Moliere, I guess.

[El Guapo]

RMC is still innocent he couldn't do anything but pass an F policy.

Of course you don't know this if you're liberal.

[Scoop20906]

He said innocent. Not liberal.

[Vorret]

He said innocent. Not liberal.

Exact. I have no idea, he could be F and very happy I had to give him FF on the first darn draw!

[El Guapo]

He said innocent. Not liberal.

Fair enough, though I was reading "innocent" as "not fascist." But mainly I just want to make sure that we understand that can't draw much in the way of conclusions about RMC's loyalty from this, in the way that we can about Vorret (and now Remus).

[Moliere]

Go ahead and make your selection Remus b

Yeah in any event we need to move forward with the Remus ticket (though it seems probable that it will be voted down). Not sure who to suggest, other than not Holman (since we don't know anything about him and he's the next president). Maybe Moliere, I guess.

"Sure, throw me onto the losing ticket."
-Lloyd Bentsen

[Remus West]

I'm happy to cross all three off my voting card.

You may want to put a caution flag next to all of us but it is possible that writing all of us off simply allows a single Fascist to remove 2 Liberals from your card.

Of course it does. But the interesting thing is that both RMC and Vorret agree on the cards. That means it much more possible you are a fascist or that they are both Fascists framing you.

Technically speaking they both agree that Vorret passed FF to RMC. Only Vorret saw the initial three card draw, so it is also totally plausible that Vorret is a fascist and RMC is a liberal.

Which is my point.

However, even if the scenario were true where I'm a Fascist while they are both Liberals his choice to remove all three of us would still result in a single Fascist removing 2 Liberals. Not a good plan either way.

The only way his plan is good is if both of them are Fascist and we lose only me in return for quarantining the three of us.

RMC is still innocent he couldn't do anything but pass an F policy.

You and me on the other hand are done, it doesn't matter that I'm L and you're F since I can't prove it, I just KNOW it, that's all!

Interesting word choice.

[El Guapo]

Go ahead and make your selection Remus b

Yeah in any event we need to move forward with the Remus ticket (though it seems probable that it will be voted down). Not sure who to suggest, other than not Holman (since we don't know anything about him and he's the next president). Maybe Moliere, I guess.

"Sure, throw me onto the losing ticket."
-Lloyd Bentsen

For the most part it could be anyone. Maybe I suggested you because you're distant enough that we could plan around your presidency turn if you are elected and we get bad (or good) information about you, but not so distant that we have to wait to use that information.

But it's mostly arbitrary, and I'm pretty sure the ticket's going down anyway. But it's good campaigning experience!

[RMC]

I am a Liberal, and Vorret did pass me FF.

That's about all I can confirm.

And I always like to Lynch Remus, but that is also known.

[stessier]

My question is, for a fascist in his position, how would they use a scan? Would he be more likely to use the scan to frame a liberal, to clear a fascist, or just say that an actual liberal is liberal? The first could narrow the liberal voting pool (which is what Remus is arguing is happening), the second might give some credibility to a fellow fascist, and the third would be the most cautious option (the fascist wouldn't get pushback from a framed liberal, among other things).

Yes.

You forgot "signal Hitler". Vorret has set himself up to be the next scan as doing so nets the Scanner two pieces of information if he is Liberal. Fascist Vorret, though, could call Hitler Remus a Fascist knowing that Fascist Vorret will be scanned and then mistrusted. It would be a bold play, but considering Hitler Vorret lamented his Liberal appeasement last game, I could see him trying to shoot the moon.