Octopus Overlords

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 10:44 pm
Apparently there is a right way and a wrong way to protest.

The injustice is palpable.

A wrong way and a white way.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 10:10 pm Yeah, Minneapolis is kind of rioting down right now. Rain may save the day.


They sure have had their share if bad shoots/force in the last few years.

Sure. In this case the video looks like manslaughter at the best and murder at worst. When the guy is apparently unconscious and he still has a knee on his neck...come on. There are 4 of you. Get up. What is he going to do? Out run everyone? There is something very wrong in this land with the police. Over and over. City after city. Violence. Lying. And little accountability to boot.

Saw photos this morning of the kneel. I kinda wish I hadn't.

BTW, something I noticed looking at all the footage last night. All the marked police vehicles had the same licence plate: "POLICE". That is shady as fuck. They were also numbered but the plates should be unique.

the head of the Minneapolis police union is a white supremacist mofo that needs to be taken out

Well, this isn't the first time this officer has killed someone under questionable circumstances:

Chauvin was involved in a fatal accident in 2005, killed Wayne Reyes in 2006, shot another man while in uniform in 2008, and had a litany of complaints against him.

Takes me back to 538's analysis of bad cops in Chicago (linked a couple of times in this thread):

Within the department, repeaters might normalize misconduct toward residents, pushing other cops toward wrongdoing. Outside of the department, the behavior of these officers can turn the community against the police. “That’s what the ‘few bad apples’ theory doesn’t capture: the kind of compounding, metastasizing arms that flow from the impunity of bad cops,” Kalven said....

...A data-driven mechanism to reduce police misconduct would be extremely valuable to the Chicago Police Department and the city of Chicago. Even laying aside the moral imperative to prevent abuse, the financial cost of police misconduct to the cash-strapped city is immense. Direct costs, in terms of legal fees and the funds disbursed in settlements, exceeded $500 million over 10 years, according to a Better Government Association study. The McDonald case alone was settled for $5 million.

Van Dyke had at least 20 complaints against him in his career, many alleging excessive force, before McDonald’s shooting. Overall, the data shows that officers who rack up many complaints against them are more likely to end up having a complaint sustained, suggesting that they really are bad cops.

It seems that the officer in question worked with Floyd at a club. Not sure how well the knew each other, but that's a strange turn in this case.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed May 27, 2020 9:00 am Saw photos this morning of the kneel. I kinda wish I hadn't.

Watch the video (or don’t). It’s so much worse. They kill Floyd as a crowd of civilians stand around begging them to stop and take his pulse. It’s agonizingly slow. This wasn’t a case where the police were forced to make a split second decision or might have reasonably been afraid for their own well being. They had this man face down on the pavement and slowly, deliberately murdered him while being filmed. And while being told by Floyd and the onlookers exactly what they were doing.

Just so incredibly wrong.

According to CNN report, Chauvin has been charged with Murder 3rd and Manslaughter 2nd

sgoldj wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 6:43 pm According to CNN report, Chauvin has been charged with Murder 3rd and Manslaughter 2nd

Shooting low and that won't please anyone but pretty much assures a guilty verdict, right?

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 7:28 pm

sgoldj wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 6:43 pm According to CNN report, Chauvin has been charged with Murder 3rd and Manslaughter 2nd

Shooting low and that won't please anyone but pretty much assures a guilty verdict, right?

I doubt 1st or 2nd-degree murder would stick and if they shoot for that and get an acquittal, that would really make people upset.
From what I looked up. 1st degree is premeditated, meaning it was planned, and 2nd degree means intentional but not planned. the heat of the moment type stuff, but still intentional.
I'd be willing to bet that the prosecution wouldn't be able to prove either one.
I suspect a bigger issue is going to be the argument that he can't even get a fair trial anywhere at this point.

Punisher wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:40 pm I suspect a bigger issue is going to be the argument that he can't even get a fair trial anywhere at this point.

pah. they'll hold it in Edina and easily secure an acquittal.

They really didn't think this policy through:

Two law enforcement agencies acknowledged Monday that officers patrolling Minneapolis during the height of recent protests knifed the tires of numerous vehicles parked and unoccupied in at least two locations in the midst of the unrest.

Video and photo images posted on the news outlet Mother Jones show officers in military-style uniforms puncturing tires in the Kmart parking lot at Lake Street and Nicollet Avenue on May 30.

Images from S. Washington Avenue at Interstate 35W also showed officers with knives deflating the tires of two unoccupied cars with repeated jabs on May 31. Department of Public Safety spokesman Bruce Gordon confirmed that tires were cut in "a few locations."

"State Patrol troopers strategically deflated tires … in order to stop behaviors such as vehicles driving dangerously and at high speeds in and around protesters and law enforcement," Gordon said.

Holy shit!

One of the 2 large hospitals in Chattanooga had 20 car's tires slashed in their parking garage.

A huge part of the reason why this thread exists, and why sweeping this under the rug will only lead to it coming up again and again. The world has changed:

perhaps the simplest story one can tell is this: We filmed the cops, and people changed their minds.

For the last two decades, America has conducted an experiment in mass videography. Virtually everyone in the country now carries a camera in his or her pocket. In addition, our highways, streets, and sidewalks are watched by an array of public and private digital eyes, recording, if not everything, then much of the nation's public interactions—including with the police.

In the early days of mass camera adoption, cops resisted public attempts to film them, often attempting to shut down and even destroy videos of their work taken by citizens.

It's not hard to understand the resistance. Those ubiquitous cameras—on cellphones, on dashboards, in stores, on police uniforms—have repeatedly given the public deeply disturbing glimpses into how officers of the law do their jobs.

I would change that to "some" officers of the law. Just like watching trainwrecks and riots, it's the extremes which make the impression and where the cameras get pointed and videos go viral. However, the extremes are coming faster and faster, and generating more fury.

In David Brin's Earth, crime has virtually ceased to exist because of people wearing goggles that record everything they look at. Hordes of retirees sitting on their doorsteps watching everything. It seemed like an interesting idea. Now, maybe, a little less far-fetched.

I was pricing body cameras on Amazon the other day.

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:39 pm In David Brin's Earth, crime has virtually ceased to exist because of people wearing goggles that record everything they look at. Hordes of retirees sitting on their doorsteps watching everything. It seemed like an interesting idea. Now, maybe, a little less far-fetched.

So, I was sitting on the porch the other day watching cars go by.
Finally around 5:30PM I saw one. I wrote his license plate number down and kept an eye on him.
It was my daughter in law.

Smart move.

You would think with all the notoriety and protests the cops would be on their best behavior.
I guess some of them at least don't want to give up on being god.

Can we get to a point yet where killing an unarmed person with your body camera and dash cam "off" just results in automatic termination at the very least?

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:46 pm Can we get to a point yet where killing an unarmed person with your body camera and dash cam "off" just results in automatic termination at the very least?

For bodycams, once the tech gets to the point where "on and saving" is the rule rather than the exception but not yet. Right now they have fairly limited file retention. Certainly not a full shift. Even when always-on they record chunks an overwrite earlier chunks when they run out of memory. You have to remember to hit save to mark footage. In the immediate aftermath of a shooting, officers aren't always going to remember to hit the save button.
This is why after a police shooting they sergeant always tells the cop to turn off the body cam. It's not to hide subsequent discussions as a lot people thin (other cops keep theirs on). It's to preserve the footage.

Dashcams, OTOH, I think can be on pretty much all the time and save hours of footage.

And I think I put it in the other thread but gun cams should be required. They are auto activated when a gun is unholstered and they see exactly what the sights see. Bodycams are often obscured by a drawn gun or whatever else. Guncams are easily mounted on most police sidearms (rail mount) so other than the $400 or so each and new holsters there is no procedural or tactical change required. They won't capture other incidents and/or abuses but they will capture all shootings.

Passing a breathalyzer on a beach next to an unopened alcoholic beverage? Better believe that's a beating.

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:00 am Passing a breathalyzer on a beach next to an unopened alcoholic beverage? Better believe that's a beating.

FWIW that's at least several years old. Doesn't change what happened but it's somewhat relevant.

OK. Probably gonna be unpopular, but...
1) She refused to provide them her name while they were conducting their investigation.
2) She was very obviously resisting arrest both by walking away, pushing/hitting the officer and kicking out at them.

She also ended up pleading guilty in a plea deal so it seems obvious that both she and her attorney thought she was guilty of some of the charges and just made the deal.

New Jersey does not have a stop and identity law.

While I'm sure some of this is just venting, it's venting which makes citizens less safe, and the true believers have no business being in the Public Safety business:

Thee Rant is just one node in a wider web of right-wing police media. On similar message boards, in Facebook groups and on news sites such as Law Enforcement Today — a sort of Breitbart-like outlet written by and for police — there is a fervent narrative that police are under nonstop siege, and that antifa in particular is a constant threat.

This police media ecosystem is not necessarily a broad representation of what most cops believe. But inside this echo chamber, which has thousands of users and readers, extremist views dictate the narrative. Wild misinformation and bigotry are rampant, with people who claim to be current and former officers posting debunked falsehoods and racist stereotypes about protesters.

LET has more than 800,000 followers on Facebook and runs a syndicated radio show. Much of its content is provided by former or current police officers, and it offers paid memberships of $75 a year to gain access to “the patriotic content that the social media giants don’t want you to see.”

The site’s articles often bear only a passing resemblance to reality. Earlier this month, Law Enforcement Today published an article calling for the arrest of Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey, accusing him of aiding and abetting “antifa” terrorists. The post cited numerous far-right media activists, including anti-Muslim conspiracy theorist Laura Loomer, and suggested that Democratic officials including Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), Rashida Tlaib (Mich.) and Ilhan Omar (Minn.) are antifa sympathizers. It also baselessly attacked Tlaib and Omar, who are Muslim, as “arguably anti-Semites and ISIS supporters (if not in words, in actions).”

“Law Enforcement Today supports Laura [Loomer]’s demand that Dorsey be arrested and prosecuted for promoting an insurrection against the United States,” the article says. It also suggests that politicians such as Omar who have expressed support for the current protests against police brutality and systemic injustice should be arrested as well.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:57 pm New Jersey does not have a stop and identity law.

This is old, but I believe that they were in the process of issuing her a summons because her "it's my aunts" story wasn't working and that is why they needed her name.
But to be fair, its been a while and I may be misremembering.

Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm She also ended up pleading guilty in a plea deal so it seems obvious that both she and her attorney thought she was guilty of some of the charges and just made the deal.

That's not how it works.

Punisher wrote: ↑Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:53 pm She also ended up pleading guilty in a plea deal so it seems obvious that both she and her attorney thought she was guilty of some of the charges and just made the deal.

That is very poorly thought out.

Innocent people take plea deals all the time because:

• To avoid the risk of a trial
• To avoid the prosecutor adding more charges
• Because they are unable to afford an adequate defense based on 1 & 2

Recommendation as a citizen nowadays - record everything. Everything. You can't trust the police even now with heightened scrutiny. They think this moment will pass. We can't let it.

OK. I stand corrected on the guilt plea thing then assuming I'm not correct and it was case of one of those reasons, but I still say she was resisting arrest. If you are under arrest, it is not the time to argue the point then and there. You go peacefully and then file false arrest charges and/or sue. It's pretty rare for anything you say to get you unarrested.

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:55 am Recommendation as a citizen nowadays - record everything. Everything. You can't trust the police even now with heightened scrutiny. They think this moment will pass. We can't let it.

I don't get it. that wasn't a cop who punched him (or at least if it is they aren't in uniform for anyone to know) and the cop standing in front of him didn't seem to be looking in his direction (the puncher might have even waited for him to glance away)
What am I missing?

It's hard to tell what direction he is looking. Plus his head literally snaps in that direction. It hard to argue he didn't see something happen. The man reported an assault and the cop ignored him.

Edit: Worse the man said, "I just got punched in the back of the head". It is inaudible what he says but cops starts yelling at him with a pointed finger. I mean come on. He is part of the mob there.

Edit:

Full video with context - he is being escorted out by multiple officers - they are telling *him to leave*. He gets hit in the head. From different angles there are at least three officer's involved. One is approaching from the back. There is a mob of people surrounding someone and all the officers are not paying attention? Come on.

Punisher wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:00 amOK. I stand corrected on the guilt plea thing then assuming I'm not correct and it was case of one of those reasons, but I still say she was resisting arrest. If you are under arrest, it is not the time to argue the point then and there. You go peacefully and then file false arrest charges and/or sue. It's pretty rare for anything you say to get you unarrested.

I completely agree that the moment a cop decides to arrest you, your only option is to go full limp dick. Anything less invites abuse.

I do, however, disagree with how quickly the police escalated this into a full-blown scene that triggered her fight-or-flight response and resulted in her getting her face mashed into the sand. People on beaches don't necessarily have ID on them. Demanding ID without proof of ownership isn't too much of a stretch, but it was also clear she wasn't drinking and passed two breathalyzer tests. An unopened container of alcohol is ... what ... a $70 fine, no jail time, no arrest? It's a business proposition for the city, not a matter of criminal justice.

A more appropriate response from the half dozen cops there might have been to simply confiscate the booze and issue a warning.

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:07 am It's hard to tell what direction he is looking. Plus his head literally snaps in that direction. It hard to argue he didn't see something happen. The man reported an assault and the cop ignored him.

Edit: Worse the man said, "I just got punched in the back of the head". It is inaudible what he says but cops starts yelling at him with a pointed finger. I mean come on. He is part of the mob there.

Edit:

Full video with context - he is being escorted out by multiple officers - they are telling *him to leave*. He gets hit in the head. From different angles there are at least three officer's involved. One is approaching from the back. There is a mob of people surrounding someone and all the officers are not paying attention? Come on.

To me, this new angle makes it clear that the officer in the white cap did not see it. The fact that he snaps his head to look after the fact would seem to indicate that as well. I suspect he may have heard the hit and turned after the fact. similar to that video with the old protestor who cracked his head on the ground. there is an angle from across the street where the crack can be heard and several officers turn to look. They heard something but didn't see anything.
The one pointing the finger seems to be the bald guy in front and unless he's undercover, I don't see any police patches or anything so I'm not sure he's a cop. There is another cop that can be seen walking up in the back right after the fact so no idea where he was looking.
Also, if there is a mob of people surrounding someone then no the cops wouldn't always be focusing on the person being surrounded they would be trying to scan the mob. I also don't know how many officers were actually there. I can only see 2 total and they can't look everywhere at once.

Punisher wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:16 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:07 am It's hard to tell what direction he is looking. Plus his head literally snaps in that direction. It hard to argue he didn't see something happen. The man reported an assault and the cop ignored him.

Edit: Worse the man said, "I just got punched in the back of the head". It is inaudible what he says but cops starts yelling at him with a pointed finger. I mean come on. He is part of the mob there.

Edit:

Full video with context - he is being escorted out by multiple officers - they are telling *him to leave*. He gets hit in the head. From different angles there are at least three officer's involved. One is approaching from the back. There is a mob of people surrounding someone and all the officers are not paying attention? Come on.

To me, this new angle makes it clear that the officer in the white cap did not see it.

To me it looks similar if not the same.

The fact that he snaps his head to look after the fact would seem to indicate that as well. I suspect he may have heard the hit and turned after the fact.

Yes - and then a crime is reported to him. That he was feet away from. And he then yells at the victim! At some point he was asked if we wanted to press charges but couldn't because he couldn't identify the attacker. Later apparently the video came out.

The one pointing the finger seems to be the bald guy in front and unless he's undercover, I don't see any police patches or anything so I'm not sure he's a cop.

Wrong guy. The cop was also pointing his finger at him. It's on the left side of the frame.

There is another cop that can be seen walking up in the back right after the fact so no idea where he was looking.

Looking at the ground because he is avoiding the whole thing. Again a mob is surrounding a guy yelling at him and every officer is doing their part to avoid dealing with them. I'm not going to bother digging it up but a woman was attacked at the same event and the cops ignored it too. They took her sign and in that video you can see a man tear it up and throw it in her face.

Also, if there is a mob of people surrounding someone then no the cops wouldn't always be focusing on the person being surrounded they would be trying to scan the mob. I also don't know how many officers were actually there. I can only see 2 total and they can't look everywhere at once.

There were 3 in the video. 2 on the street and number 3 who wanders in from the back and then stands around avoiding the whole thing from a distance. It's obvious what is going on here. That is why everything needs to be recorded because I could have seen that guy getting arrested even though he was perfectly brave and calm despite the shit he was taking from the crowd and the obvious way the police essentially ignored the situation to his danger.

Anyway, beyond the NFL play-by-play the point of saying record everything is that the police in some (many?) places seem to side with the white supremacists. We saw it pretty prominently in the Philadelphia. I'd be not surprised to see it all throughout the rust belt at least. People need to protect themselves because the cops do bad things even when they know or should know they are being recorded.

"Sir, I just got punched in the head."
"Good, good..."




Also, that guy that punched him is a disgraceful coward. Punch some guy in the back of the head and slink away. Go USA!