The Parasite -GAME OVER-Town wins

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:51 pm

So, we still have a day 1 choice to make. I believe Scoop. A wolf would have contested El G to the end hoping to get us to lynch him. Then go splodie tomorrow.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:12 pm

Unagi wrote:Fact: if you KNOW you have a zerker wolf (we don't yet), you save him for last... you don't kill him ever until you are (nearly) out of misses. Right?

Wrong. By definition, the death of the final wolf eliminates the possibility of wolf victory.

So the one thing team wolf never does, if thinking clearly, is save a self-destructing wolf for last.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:18 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Unagi wrote:Fact: if you KNOW you have a zerker wolf (we don't yet), you save him for last... you don't kill him ever until you are (nearly) out of misses. Right?
Wrong. By definition, the death of the final wolf eliminates the possibility of wolf victory.

So the one thing team wolf never does, if thinking clearly, is save a self-destructing wolf for last.

Oh, I see what you mean. I thought you were theorizing about how Team Wolf would deploy its pieces.

Even so, whether you save a zerker wolf for last depends on the circumstance. Imagine it has come down to three, and one is the zerker. Lynching him then results in a Village victory, with only one man standing-- the case you have in mind. Now imagine instead that it's mid-game with a decent population, the Zerker has been scanned, and there's reason to think he'll target someone non-special. In that case -- especially if he's verbose and misleading -- it's more prudent to end his noise, absorb his damage, and then proceed with a clarified situation.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:42 pm

do you know what "touch... touch..." means?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:02 pm

Unagi wrote:do you know what "touch... touch..." means?

Er... no, and from you I'm not sure I want to learn!

Reading...

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:39 pm

My problem is that Scoop is just going to create noise until he dies. The infected can sit back, risk nothing, and hide in the chaos (or even worse use it to build trust).

If Scoop is the berserker, we won't know until the seer survives to scan then reveals. We can't fix it unless the shooter survives. There is just too much that can go wrong.

Cut our losses unless someone has a better choice.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:31 pm

Zarathud wrote:My problem is that Scoop is just going to create noise until he dies. The infected can sit back, risk nothing, and hide in the chaos (or even worse use it to build trust).

If Scoop is the berserker, we won't know until the seer survives to scan then reveals. We can't fix it unless the shooter survives. There is just too much that can go wrong.

Cut our losses unless someone has a better choice.

Zarathustra, please hold me beer.

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Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:41 pm

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:22 pm

Unagi wrote:
bb2112 wrote:Ok, setting aside the fact that Scoop is being Scoop for a moment: Would a wolf (even a Scoop wolf) expose himself on day one with a claim that could be easily countered since nobody has died yet? I get that Scoop is unpredictable and a little on the crazy side, but does that make a lot of sense? There was no real heat on him (or anyone) yet.
So, the wolves DID (facto) get stopped by the protector last night.

Either:
a) wolf scoop came out first thing and claimed protector to get the protector out.
b) villager scoop came out in an attempt to fuck with everyone but hope that it ends up helping his side
c) protector scoop came out and declared he again was the day-1-protector

Since then - El Guapo has countered that claim. So, Scoop is most certainly either a, b, or c But El Guapo is most certainly .... Not a wolf willing to dive into all this, and certainly not a Villager willing to fuck with everyone even more...

SO, since El Guapo isn't a wolf or villager - that makes Scoop either a) or b).

I'm about ready to lynch him, BUT WAIT - let's just scan him (Seer) - and move on. Scoop can be cleared or condemned - and make the Wolves deal with a Villager Wolf, for now.

This actually makes sense.

I vaguely remember a game -- I think it was Get Smart -- in which Scoop came out of nowhere and emulated roles that had nothing to do with him, on the theory that if he threw enough spaghetti on the wall, he'd provide cover for something somehow maybe. And then he did it again in one of the next games shortly thereafter. So I'm inclined to believe it's possible that he was just a non-Wolf "making a play".

Would he iocane that inclination? Seems too deep for day 1.

El Guapo is a plausible first-day target for team parasite, and stepping forward after self-protection in this circumstance is tactically sound, so nothing tells against the scenario in which both are truthful. That doesn't exonerate Scoop, of course; the first principle of Scoop is that what he does may not make sense. He's either chaotic good or chaotic evil. Although these observations also do not exonerate El Guapo, but it's very hard to see how a parasite would make his move, and the latter remains uncontested, whether by Scoop or some third party.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:28 pm

bb2112 wrote:I am also not too keen on Unagi. Seems like he took Scoop at face value way too easily and I don't like the waste of a scan on Scoop this early.

I had that impression at first, too. Scoop's "claims" were so vague that it wasn't clear to me that he was claiming anything; meanwhile, Unagi was dead sure Scoop was doing exactly that. So it made Unagi look suspiciously eager.

Problem is, Unagi was right. Scoop was laying out claims. Apparently, Unagi's the Scoop Whisperer.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:30 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:FYI guys. My death guarantees we don't hit a special

Shouldn't we be trying to kill a wolf? And who but a wolf would recommend not pursuing the only course that leads to our victory condition?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:31 pm

Holman wrote:... caused El Guapo to out himself, which really wasn't necessary at this time (although Remus seemed to insist it was).

Technically, El Guapo also seemed to insist it was. In addition, that's the correct position; it was.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:35 pm

Newcastle wrote:why would scoop come out today and falsely claim the protector...if he comes out first, he is likely to be believed; therefore the 2nd person making the claim is less likely to be believed...and in all likelihood being lynched. In that scenario scoop lives to day 2 and gets lynched and the village votes off its protector. Just saying...
Vote scoop and vote often!

Yeah, but as soon as El Guapo made his claim, Scoop corroborated it, declared the cat out of the bag, etc. Not quite the behavior of someone trying to maintain he's the real protector....

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:36 pm

Remus West wrote:Interesting. I'm not buying Scoop as wolf and I don't really believe Unagi is either.
Unagi

If you don't really believe Unagi is a wolf, why are you voting against him?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:39 pm

Fascinating. Hard beginning.

Newcastle

I think.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:18 am

Grundbegriff wrote:Fascinating. Hard beginning.

Newcastle

I think.

At least you came to the correct conclusion. I guess eating their own comes early this game.

Lets all remember two of the wolves were chosen.

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Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:17 am

Unagi wrote:Fact: if you KNOW you have a zerker wolf (we don't yet), you save him for last... you don't kill him ever until you are (nearly) out of misses. Right?

Wrong. Regardless of the existence of a zerker if you KNOW you have a wolf you lynch it or shoot it. Period. Get the confirmed kill. Hell, I'd go so far as to say that is true for any type bad guy - i.e. the sorcerer role from way back. At the very least, losing a vote hurts the bad guys team a great deal.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:22 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:Interesting. I'm not buying Scoop as wolf and I don't really believe Unagi is either.
Unagi

If you don't really believe Unagi is a wolf, why are you voting against him?

I believe that statement was clarified by others already. I do not believe the Unagi really buys the Scoop as wolf story.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:34 am

Players ----------- Voted For:
1 Newcastle----- scoop
2 Vorret---------- moliere
3 Holman--------
4 BB2112--------- Moliere
5 Scoop---------- Newcastle
6 Archinerd-----
7 El Guapo------- scoop
8 Zarathud------- scoop
9 Punisher-------
10 Unagi-----------
11 Remus West--- Unagi
12 RMC------------ BB2112
13 Grundbegriff-- Newcastle
14 Moliere-------- Scoop
.
.
Targets ----------- Voters
( Scoop---------- 4 )--- Moliere --- Newcastle --- Zarathud --- El Guapo
( BB2112--------- 1 )--- RMC
( Moliere-------- 2 )--- BB2112 --- Vorret
( Unagi----------- 1 )--- Remus West
( )---
( Newcastle----- 2 )--- Scoop --- Grundbegriff

Deaths

Majority = 8

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:40 am

Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:49 am

hmm will need to re-read the whole thing when I'm done with the rush at work I don't remember anything odd that Newcastle did but maybe I missed it.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:04 am

welp....that's disappointing

/spots the fridge
"touchhhhh....touch."

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:17 pm

RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...

It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:23 pm

Holman wrote:
RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...
It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.

I'm suspicious of you now that you are pointing this out.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:29 pm

Holman wrote:
RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...
It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:03 pm

Moliere wrote:
Holman wrote:
RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...
It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.
I'm suspicious of you now that you are pointing this out.

I'm suspicious of you for pointing out that you are suspicious of him for pointing that out.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:05 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Moliere wrote:
Holman wrote:
RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...
It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.
I'm suspicious of you now that you are pointing this out.
I'm suspicious of you for pointing out that you are suspicious of him for pointing that out.

Does this mean you're suspicious of yourself? And by me typing this does that mean I'm accusing myself of being suspicious of myself? It's all very suspicious.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:11 pm

Moliere wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Moliere wrote:
Holman wrote:
RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...
It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.
I'm suspicious of you now that you are pointing this out.
I'm suspicious of you for pointing out that you are suspicious of him for pointing that out.
Does this mean you're suspicious of yourself? And by me typing this does that mean I'm accusing myself of being suspicious of myself? It's all very suspicious.

Incredibly so.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:32 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Moliere wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
Moliere wrote:
Holman wrote:
RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...
It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.
I'm suspicious of you now that you are pointing this out.
I'm suspicious of you for pointing out that you are suspicious of him for pointing that out.
Does this mean you're suspicious of yourself? And by me typing this does that mean I'm accusing myself of being suspicious of myself? It's all very suspicious.
Incredibly so.

I am starting to think you are all wolves and I am the only villager... Are we sure the random generator was working?

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:44 pm

Punisher wrote:I am starting to think you are all wolves and I am the only villager... Are we sure the random generator was working?

You are playing against El Guapo's 9 alt accounts. Good luck!

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:46 pm

Moliere wrote:
Punisher wrote:I am starting to think you are all wolves and I am the only villager... Are we sure the random generator was working?
You are playing against El Guapo's 9 alt accounts. Good luck!

your response time could be quicker. I kind of figure youre on bad dialup seeing the time differential between each post. C'mon cut the time down or else...pffftt....who's gonna believe ya el guapoOmoliereO?

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:03 pm

Just to sum up where I think we are at right now.

Reasons to vote for Scoop:
1. Could be a Beserker wolf
2. Is likley just an unpowered villager
3. Canadians and Zarathud don't like him

Reasons to NOT vote for Scoop:
1. Could be a Beserker wolf
2. Is likley just an unpowered villager
3. Canadians and Zarathud don't like him

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:23 pm

Archinerd wrote:Just to sum up where I think we are at right now.

Reasons to vote for Scoop:
1. Could be a Beserker wolf
2. Is likley just an unpowered villager
3. Canadians and Zarathud don't like him

Reasons to NOT vote for Scoop:
1. Could be a Beserker wolf
2. Is likley just an unpowered villager
3. Canadians and Zarathud don't like him

Wait, what ? Don't lump me in there

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:02 pm

Jeez. Last time I was begging not be killed when it was clear I was an uncontested special and now people can't be bothered to off me. I realize it's not the same situation but I wish I could predict what you people will do.

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Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:26 pm

Nobody Expected to Avoid the Scoop Inquisition!

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:47 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Jeez. Last time I was begging not be killed when it was clear I was an uncontested special and now people can't be bothered to off me. I realize it's not the same situation but I wish I could predict what you people will do.

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hahah... you thought this game was predictable....

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:38 pm

Remus West wrote:
Unagi wrote:Fact: if you KNOW you have a zerker wolf (we don't yet), you save him for last... you don't kill him ever until you are (nearly) out of misses. Right?
Wrong. Regardless of the existence of a zerker if you KNOW you have a wolf you lynch it or shoot it. Period. Get the confirmed kill. Hell, I'd go so far as to say that is true for any type bad guy - i.e. the sorcerer role from way back. At the very least, losing a vote hurts the bad guys team a great deal.

Remember that one game in which LordMortis was left alive as Sorcerer and made the game horrible through incessant trolling and FUD-prop?

Good times.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:40 pm

Remus West wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:Interesting. I'm not buying Scoop as wolf and I don't really believe Unagi is either.
Unagi

If you don't really believe Unagi is a wolf, why are you voting against him?
I believe that statement was clarified by others already. I do not believe the Unagi really buys the Scoop as wolf story.

Yeah, but you said "I don't really believe Unagi is either." Did you mean "I don't really believe Unagi does either"?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:41 pm

Holman wrote:
RMC wrote:Busy at work, but I will switch my vote to newcastle as well later when I have time. He seems a mite eager...
It always strikes me as odd that players look suspicious both for trying hard and for not trying at all.

They also look suspicious for trying to avoid extremes.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:42 pm

Archinerd wrote:Just to sum up where I think we are at right now.

Reasons to vote for Scoop:
1. Could be a Beserker wolf
2. Is likley just an unpowered villager
3. Canadians and Zarathud don't like him

Reasons to NOT vote for Scoop:
1. Could be a Beserker wolf
2. Is likley just an unpowered villager
3. Canadians and Zarathud don't like him

This post is everything.