Game of Thrones Season 8

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:05 pm

The show has played pretty fast and loose with time and distance all along, and generally we've been expected to overlook it. That's fine sometimes.

But I just saw someone point out something pretty damning on this score:

Gilly's baby was in swaddling clothes in Season 3, and he is still there. He's not even a toddler yet.

In the same time span, Bran has gone from a pre-teen to a sullen high-schooler, and Arya has gone from elementary school to getting laid.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:22 pm

I think the Arya scene would have been much better if:

Spoiler:

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:28 pm

The thing that has me a bit puzzled involves them knowing Bran has these powers. So, for instance, why did they have a trial/hearing/arraignment for Jaime at all? If I was them I'd simply go to Bran and ask "Jaime Lannister is here, good or bad?". In other words, do we execute him or can he serve some purpose for us? If for some crazy reason they need to do the trial, why wouldn't Jaime lead off with "Your dad was insane" and see her try to wiggle out of that one?

At first I assumed it's because they DID prearrange all this with Bran, but then later that didn't turn out to be the case. I thought Jaime didn't want to antagonize anyone, but then he says "And I'd do it all again" so that's not the case either. It's like they don't want to pick Bran's brain even though they know he has a ton of information about anything and everything they'd want to know. Only Tyrion seems to have caught on to this.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:56 pm

Yeah, everyone appears to assume that Bran is a weird outlier except when he nails down a plot point so they can move on.

Wait. Holy cow: Bran is GRRM!

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:27 pm

How would Bran know whether Jamie should stay? I know he can see the past and the present, but I didn’t think he could see the future?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:52 pm

I thought that episode was fantastic - really GOT at its finest. I suppose it ultimately made the show's time crunch even worse, in that it didn't advance the plot *that* much (though Dany did learn about Jon's past, and it advanced the 'post war' stuff somewhat as to the North), but the interactions between the various characters as they prepare to confront death was pretty compelling.

I will also say I'm genuinely uncertain how the battle for Winterfell is going to go. It seems like the white walkers have to win the battle, in that it would be sort of anticlimactic to have this huge epic world ending threat hanging over our heads for 7+ seasons, and then have the heroes win in essentially the first battle. On the other hand it seems like a win for the white walkers at Winterfell would doom humanity, in that I'm not sure how they would bounce back from that (especially with all the raised wights after the battle). Also I suppose if the heroes won at Winterfell it would leave 3 episodes to wrap up the struggle for the Iron Throne, and it seems like they might need all that time.

I guess on balance I'm leaning towards: (1) white walkers win the Battle of Winterfell, but in the process the heroes learn some information that sets up a desperate 'attack on the Death Star' to happen in episode 4, or 4-5. Then 5 and 6 are basically the battle for the iron throne (though that would seem somewhat abbreviated).

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:58 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:27 pm How would Bran know whether Jamie should stay? I know he can see the past and the present, but I didn’t think he could see the future?

At the very least he could speak to who Jaime was then, and who he is now. In this trial much was made of who vouched for him, and how much he could be trusted. Isn't that something Bran could see? "Yeah, he was a jerk when he pushed me out the window but he's not that guy now." and then Bran could recite some of Jaime's words that show how he is not. Instead that scene was played as if they had no way of knowing if Jaime was on the level or not.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:03 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:27 pm How would Bran know whether Jamie should stay? I know he can see the past and the present, but I didn’t think he could see the future?

With enough data points, past + present = future, or very close to it. Bran certainly has plenty of data points.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:07 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:52 pm I guess on balance I'm leaning towards: (1) white walkers win the Battle of Winterfell, but in the process the heroes learn some information that sets up a desperate 'attack on the Death Star' to happen in episode 4, or 4-5. Then 5 and 6 are basically the battle for the iron throne (though that would seem somewhat abbreviated).

Or else they discover that the exhaust port is in King's Landing and are forced to confront that front while the (now enlarged) white walker army breathes down their neck.

I'm planning to rewatch the entire series with the whole family (the kids are finally old enough), and I really look forward to seeing this pre-battle episode again later once everything has played out. I have a feeling that there was a lot of stuff foreshadowed here that we didn't even catch.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:13 am

Like if they find a secret cache of giant's milk.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:39 am

I was expecting Brienne or maybe Bran to speak up and explain to Dany that Jaime killed Aerys because he was threatening to destroy Kings Landing with his secret stashes of wildfire.

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:14 am

In a Bran flashback (more like a dream)about the mad king he was muttering burn them all over and over kind of like Hodor with the Hold the door. I wonder if during an upcoming flashback as Bran is in "both" times if he doesnt mistakingly plant the burn them all craziness in his head thus kickstarting this whole thing. The mad king wasnt always mad.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:24 am

morlac wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:16 pm I have a strange feeling he is a Stark. They were around back when man was fighting against the children of the forests. So something beyond him just being an uncotrollable weapon that was created would be great.

The Night King flew a dragon so....

morlac · Post by **morlac** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:44 am

The Targaryens were not in Westeros back when the Knight King was created. They migrated and conquered roughly 300 years prior.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:15 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:07 am
El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:52 pm I guess on balance I'm leaning towards: (1) white walkers win the Battle of Winterfell, but in the process the heroes learn some information that sets up a desperate 'attack on the Death Star' to happen in episode 4, or 4-5. Then 5 and 6 are basically the battle for the iron throne (though that would seem somewhat abbreviated).
Or else they discover that the exhaust port is in King's Landing and are forced to confront that front while the (now enlarged) white walker army breathes down their neck.

I'm planning to rewatch the entire series with the whole family (the kids are finally old enough), and I really look forward to seeing this pre-battle episode again later once everything has played out. I have a feeling that there was a lot of stuff foreshadowed here that we didn't even catch.

Given that they had four or five characters say, "YOU SHOULD GO TO THE CRYPTS BECAUSE THAT IS *DEFINITELY* THE SAFEST PLACE TO BE DURING THE ATTACK!", I think it may turn out that the crypts are not, in fact, the safest place to be during the attack.

I'm going to be mildly annoyed if the Night King raises all the bodies in the crypts as wights, because that seems like a pretty foreseeable and preventable attack.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:30 am

morlac wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:44 am The Targaryens were not in Westeros back when the Knight King was created. They migrated and conquered roughly 300 years prior.

If the show creators say only a Targaryen can fly a dragon, and the Night King flew a dragon, it's not a great leap to say the Night King could be a Targaryen.

There's also a chance that we're never told who he is.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:32 am

I started getting worried about the crypts in the first 5 seconds of episode 1, when I saw they were featured in the pop-up book intro.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:36 am

morlac wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:14 am In a Bran flashback (more like a dream)about the mad king he was muttering burn them all over and over kind of like Hodor with the Hold the door. I wonder if during an upcoming flashback as Bran is in "both" times if he doesnt mistakingly plant the burn them all craziness in his head thus kickstarting this whole thing. The mad king wasnt always mad.

Which could tie back to my theory that the secret to defeating the walkers is in King's Landing, forcing them to into a running battle back to the south.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:44 am

I bet that green slime could do some damage...

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:53 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:36 am
morlac wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:14 am In a Bran flashback (more like a dream)about the mad king he was muttering burn them all over and over kind of like Hodor with the Hold the door. I wonder if during an upcoming flashback as Bran is in "both" times if he doesnt mistakingly plant the burn them all craziness in his head thus kickstarting this whole thing. The mad king wasnt always mad.
Which could tie back to my theory that the secret to defeating the walkers is in King's Landing, forcing them to into a running battle back to the south.

Hard to see how Jon / Dany's army would be in any condition to do a fighting march south after the pending battle of Winterfell.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:55 am

They wouldn't be, or to face Cersei's army at the end in order to get into King's Landing to enact whatever the solution is. Which would make it interesting.

Toe · Post by **Toe** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:25 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:53 am Hard to see how Jon / Dany's army would be in any condition to do a fighting march south after the pending battle of Winterfell.

If they use the dragon's effectively (and avoid/kill the night kings dragon) and do some damage to the white walker leadership core (feasible with so many valarian and dragonglass weapons around), it does not seem that far of a stretch that this could give them enough room to retreat in a somewhat orderly fashion.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:30 am

I don't think our heroes are going to defeat the dead militarily. They'll try, and there will be battles, but ultimately it'll be some kind of Bran-powered magic that saves the world.

The show has put a lot into letting us know that the gods are real, or at least some of them are. The Red Priests, the Many-Faced God, and even the Old Gods (at least in relation to the Children of the Forest and the Three-Eyed Raven) have demonstrated actual powers. It's possible that only the Seven are purely mythical. I wonder what part divine power will play in closing out the series.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:13 pm

In some ways the key question is in which episode are they going to defeat the Night King? Next episode (3) seems too soon, though it's not out of the question if the show wants to have a lot of time to take on Cersei and figure out the Jon / Dany thing. Episode 5 seems like the most likely time...but that would only leave one (long) episode to sort out the Cersei conflict and the postwar, which doesn't seem to be enough.

I'm also curious as to not only who is going to die, but which (if any) main characters we'll get to see in wight form.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:31 pm

I feel like we should have had a full season of the final battle with the white walkers, and then a full season covering the finale of the struggle for the throne.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:33 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:31 pm I feel like we should have had a full season of the final battle with the white walkers, and then a full season covering the finale of the struggle for the throne.

It's kind of baffling to me that they didn't resolve the Cersei / Dany battle last season, in order to have a full-ish season to address the struggle vs. the white walkers and the postwar period. But maybe it will all make sense when the season's over.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:38 pm

And I feel like their should also be a movie after the show ends that covers the life of Hot Pie.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:55 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:33 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:31 pm I feel like we should have had a full season of the final battle with the white walkers, and then a full season covering the finale of the struggle for the throne.
It's kind of baffling to me that they didn't resolve the Cersei / Dany battle last season, in order to have a full-ish season to address the struggle vs. the white walkers and the postwar period. But maybe it will all make sense when the season's over.

The question of who gets the Iron Throne is the fundamental reason for the story.. at least for the HBO series. I would be curious to know if Martin has a different ending in mind since the books are A Song of Ice and Fire as opposed to Game of Thrones.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:31 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:30 am I don't think our heroes are going to defeat the dead militarily. They'll try, and there will be battles, but ultimately it'll be some kind of Bran-powered magic that saves the world.

The show has put a lot into letting us know that the gods are real, or at least some of them are. The Red Priests, the Many-Faced God, and even the Old Gods (at least in relation to the Children of the Forest and the Three-Eyed Raven) have demonstrated actual powers. It's possible that only the Seven are purely mythical. I wonder what part divine power will play in closing out the series.

Didn't Melisandre make some statement last season that she (and Varys) will die in Westeros? I wouldn't be surprised if she shows up and does some magical fire stuff in the battle with the WWs.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:33 pm

What are the chances that Bran could go on to win the throne?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:35 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:38 pm And I feel like their should also be a movie after the show ends that covers the life of Hot Pie.

Have you sent that manuscript to HBO yet?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:36 pm

Rumpy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:33 pm What are the chances that Bran could go on to win the throne?

I would say pretty much zero, insofar as I really don't think he would have even the slightest interest.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:50 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:35 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:38 pm And I feel like their should also be a movie after the show ends that covers the life of Hot Pie.
Have you sent that manuscript to HBO yet?

I have. They didn't like the 50 Shades of Grey vibe though.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:14 pm

hepcat wrote:
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:35 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:38 pm And I feel like their should also be a movie after the show ends that covers the life of Hot Pie.
Have you sent that manuscript to HBO yet?
I have. They didn't like the 50 Shades of Grey vibe though.

Hot Pie Pete. I’ll give that one to you for free.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:07 pm

I don't think the Night King heads for the capitol, I think the fight is in the north first. This white walker threat has always been a separate thing from the battle for the throne, I don't think the show will combine them now. The mercenaries Cersei has need to be flipped against her, I think that's what's going to happen after the white walker fight is over. Cersei+20k mercenaries vs Jon/Dany would take a hell of a lot more episodes to resolve than are left.

The dragon is dead, so I would not read too much into the Night King riding him in terms of that implying the NK is a Targaryen. If he hops on a live dragon and rides it, now that's a whole new ballgame.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:27 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:50 pm
El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:35 pm
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:38 pm And I feel like their should also be a movie after the show ends that covers the life of Hot Pie.
Have you sent that manuscript to HBO yet?
I have. They didn't like the 50 Shades of Grey vibe though.

Did you point out that American Pie did extremely well with a pie fucking scene?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:06 pm

I even included sketches...

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:11 pm

Well that's just baffling, then. Studio executives, amiright?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:07 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:38 pm And I feel like their should also be a movie after the show ends that covers the life of Hot Pie.

The Erotic Adventures of Podrick Payne

Hrothgar · Post by **Hrothgar** » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:42 pm

wonderpug wrote: ↑Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:32 am I started getting worried about the crypts in the first 5 seconds of episode 1, when I saw they were featured in the pop-up book intro.

I've seen a lot of speculation on this, but I don't get it. I mean thematically it makes sense, but practically it doesn't. The north has been burning their dead at least since Jon came back. All the bodies in the crypt should be dust and bones by now. Well, except Rickon. He's no threat. He'll just run straight towards his inevitable death.