BSG V - Game over -Cylons win

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:31 am

triggercut wrote:BTW, forgot to mention this earlier, but thanks Lassr for running the game. It was extremely entertaining, and I appreciated the wonderful flavor text.

+1 - even if you bastards did kill me on Day One.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:41 am

triggercut wrote:BTW, forgot to mention this earlier, but thanks Lassr for running the game. It was extremely entertaining, and I appreciated the wonderful flavor text.

YES. Lassr, thanks for running this - great job again!

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:35 am

I'd like to say that having TWENTY people play brought a tear to my eye.

Almost as good as having two or three games running at the same time.

Thanx Lassr.

Sean, Minister of KtSP · Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:15 am

Indeed, thank you.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:42 am

Chaosraven wrote:I'd like to say that having TWENTY people play brought a tear to my eye.

Almost as good as having two or three games running at the same time.

Thanx Lassr.

That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:18 am

Unagi wrote:
Unagi wrote:
stessier wrote:So who was purge's last scan? I bet it was Semaj.
No, I bet it was triggercut.

ha, see. Purge is crazy - but he's no fool.

Well. one of those... or something.

I thought Kraegor was one of them and nothing trig said got him out of the unknowns. Too man deaths allowed an easy spoof of a non-provable role.

It's funny; I got a PM from theohall and he had noted Trig's "Cavil" slip-up and we were BOTH screaming at our respective monitors.

I admit that I was trusting Unagi's pr0ner assessment, but I didn't put any weight behind it (or even comment) as finding 10 was penultimate to finding the other two natural cylons.

Kraegors tell in this game was the lack of abuse and frustration. He and I both get excited when being truthful.

GG guys... I'm glad at least that I took the Mighty Remus down.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:20 am

Yeah. I hate you Lassr for dragging me in. This is the single reason I was missing my internet connection at home. I wasted many an hour pondering (AFTER I let the team down with a missed night scan).

For future reference .. If I get a "seer" role, the game master needs to give the good guys some other advantage to balance it out.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:30 am

I think ultimately you made the right move since you got me on the last scan, but you took a big risk Purge. You were hinting your role and we came really close to killing you. Like I said ultimately you made the right move, but it could have easily not been the case. You lucky bastard

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:48 am

Chaosraven wrote:I'd like to say that having TWENTY people play brought a tear to my eye.

I was worried I was going to have to trim some fat from my game with 10 players but when I got 20, wow, I was floored. I'd like to think everyone loves my game that much, but it was probably the excessive behind the scene advertising I was doing. So that was great since I got to try out Leoben in a game and not keep him stuffed in the storage box. He was getting lonely.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:09 am

Yes, thanks!

For the next one, I second the motion for including the Chief!

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:11 am

stessier wrote:Yes, thanks!

For the next one, I second the motion for including the Chief!

Next one will be revamped. Fewer roles and different roles.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:20 am

Nice work, Lassr. The games wouldn't be the games without your BSG.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:32 am

Mr Bubbles wrote:I think ultimately you made the right move since you got me on the last scan, but you took a big risk Purge. You were hinting your role and we came really close to killing you. Like I said ultimately you made the right move, but it could have easily not been the case. You lucky bastard

Yeah, if I were not so arrogant you would have died in the night. I completely forgot about Athena's one time scan giving me notice that I had been scanned so never even considered that angle. Was my own pride that came before Mr Bubbles fall sadly.......

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:21 am

Mr Bubbles wrote:I think ultimately you made the right move since you got me on the last scan, but you took a big risk Purge. You were hinting your role and we came really close to killing you. Like I said ultimately you made the right move, but it could have easily not been the case. You lucky bastard

Even had I not gotten you, I could have proved someone (like Semaj) as human. My nighttime death would have cinched it. One more scan was valuable, regardless of the result. I had two scans to go on, and not getting at least a third would have been failure.

I don't regret my decision, but I was chomping my nails trying to decide what to do. I generally like to solicit feedback (even if I ignore it or decide to do what it was I intended to do) -edit: Like I did with my terminal scan on Trig ...

I FOUGHT to keep Trig on the hit-list... Stess - that was the only thing that disappointed me with your play in the post-purge game. Unagi missing the comment on the role reveal from Trig (that Bubbs was Cavil) was the other

... I expected Unagi to catch that. Perhaps had Brendan been around long enough he would have caught onto it.

But like I said before, having me as a seer is about as condemning as having a 7 zerkers in a 15 man game.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:45 am

Remus West wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:I think ultimately you made the right move since you got me on the last scan, but you took a big risk Purge. You were hinting your role and we came really close to killing you. Like I said ultimately you made the right move, but it could have easily not been the case. You lucky bastard
Yeah, if I were not so arrogant you would have died in the night. I completely forgot about Athena's one time scan giving me notice that I had been scanned so never even considered that angle. Was my own pride that came before Mr Bubbles fall sadly.......

I loved the fact that some people tried to play your arrogance (Sean came on strong); I knew though that you'd have to be a tower of hubris to let me live to scan another night.

It's too bad that others didn't recognize that they were trying to give you credit as possibly being Athena; goading you on would have meant that Trig would have been next, and we would then have had shot at catching Kraeg.

///////////////////////////////////RANTS/SUGGESTIONS//////////////////////////////////

While I agreed with the tru1cy not being powered, I tend to agree that radio silence needs to be curbed a bit (brought up numerous times by Brendan this game) to bring forth participation. Absenteeism due to RL issues is one thing, and forcing people to contribute flies in the face of strategy, but we need more than just an occasional vote, even if it's a mod event "roll call" where everyone has to pipe up and contribute respond to directed questions as a timed event. Kinda like the questions that get posed at "tribal council" in survivor. The questions are not all the same.

eg:

Triggercut, tell us what you think of X person.
Purge, tell us why you thought Baltar may be alive.
Remus West, explain your position on finding 10.
Unagi, tell us why you insist on not flushing.

etc...

This isn't something that needs to happen every day, but it forces contribution. It could even be the Triggercut line for everyone, where "x" is determined by random site. It could even be a "and give us a few quotes to support your position" so it's more than just "I think he's cylon".

The day 1 event could be a "what strategy should we take" question rather than exploring another characters past (given there isn't going to be much there).

The other thing I find myself thinking about is that I hate the day1 crap-shoot lynch and the night-0 non-participation. I think there should be a dummy character that's killed the first night, and then an investigation which then starts off the actual kills. Isgrimnur basically didn't get to play because of it, and were it me, I'd lose interest in these games a lot faster.

eg:

Night 0 - all evil cycles get to happen except the kill selection.
Day 1 - body of NPC found - vote on lynch
Night 1 - first night that the "good guys" get to start their night cycle events.

Now you don't need to give Six TWO night scans on night 0; she has one on night 0 before the goods get to do anything, and then on night-1 proper. Baltar isn't going to be looking for her yet, and starbuck isn't going to protect. The bomb isn't a risk to either her or Apollo, and there is no seer scans.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:45 am

purge wrote: Kraegors tell in this game was the lack of abuse and frustration. He and I both get excited when being truthful.

think so do ya. everyone thinks they have my tells down...

http://www.popehat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=808" target="_blank

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:50 am

Kraegor wrote:
purge wrote: Kraegors tell in this game was the lack of abuse and frustration. He and I both get excited when being truthful.
think so do ya. everyone thinks they have my tells down...

http://www.popehat.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=808" target="_blank

Um - you lost that game...

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:55 am

evil in both games, was my behavior identical?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:20 pm

purge wrote:It's too bad that others didn't recognize that they were trying to give you credit as possibly being Athena; goading you on would have meant that Trig would have been next, and we would then have had shot at catching Kraeg.

Nope, I'm not that arrogant (not quite). It was a single day play. Either the humans believed me and we won that day or we killed you the following night. No way were you getting the next scan off.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:22 pm

I don't think prompts are the way to keep people from not posting. Lynching is. Yes, it semi-sucks for the good guys as 90% of the time it is a miss but it does remove the late game wondering.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:44 pm

Austin wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:I'd like to say that having TWENTY people play brought a tear to my eye.

Almost as good as having two or three games running at the same time.

Thanx Lassr.
That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.

Who had been pulling the disappearing act in the past?

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:56 pm

Remus West wrote:I don't think prompts are the way to keep people from not posting. Lynching is. Yes, it semi-sucks for the good guys as 90% of the time it is a miss but it does remove the late game wondering.

The problem with that method is that you can't carry over to the next game.

eg: Tru1cy (sorry to pick on you; but you are the definitive truancy player)

He plays silent this game.
Next game he's got a different role and different motivations.

So do we vote him off day 1 for it? How is the "voting" method a way to discipline players who engage in non-contribution when by the time the behaviour is established as their trait for that game that we're now using our only method of hunting evils as a RL "this is what you get" lesson? Like we don't have enough pointless trains anyways.

That method may work for the occasional player slip-up, but I'm convinced that exploring a mod action to ping folks is a good way to keep the game moving forwards, just like the now-standardized hard deadlines. I don't know how the mods would want to handle the consequences for missing the window, nor do I want to eradicate a "sit back and watch for a bit" gameplay, but to illicit some sort of meaningful commentary from everyone at a mod-determined time interval isn't a bad idea.

I got burned by missing a deadline, and I hold myself accountable. Thing is, I'm not normally a miss-the-deadline kind of guy. I generally avoid voting for someone who hasn't shown reasonable doubt, and I would not have missed the scan were it not for a metric ton of stuff that came up and knocked me off the electronical world.

While Lassr's game was very enjoyable and a well-run game, I would not say that our current game structure is the pinnacle of creation. Well-I-guess-we-can-stop-looking-for-ways-to-improve-as-this-is-as-good-as-it-gets* doesn't apply here. I'm putting forward something that might be a good idea. Perhaps you don't agree with the concept, but I'm sure some of the game mods might see some value in this - I can only imagine how frustrated they can feel in trying to make sure the train stays on track. I know from my perspective, the idea that tru1cy_post_count(0) = non-powered human is total bunk. Were I to engage in that same behaviour on a consistent basis and everyone else, we'd be where we were 4 months ago... burned out and frustrated with the silen(ce/ts).

*Yes, I had to open a new box of hyphens for that line.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:19 pm

Kraegor wrote:evil in both games, was my behavior identical?

To be fair you were the only one I got right as being a cylon this game early

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:26 pm

We kill the quiet ones because they aren't helping.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:27 pm

Kraegor wrote:evil in both games, was my behavior identical?

Does that every stop anyone from trying to derive at different conclusions. Pissed me off that people were trying to say I was playing differently this game. I wanted to play differently, but I choose to play the same. People will read into things that shouldn't be read into and ignore things that should be. Thats the constant I guess.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:32 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:
Kraegor wrote:evil in both games, was my behavior identical?
Does that every stop anyone from trying to derive at different conclusions. Pissed me off that people were trying to say I was playing differently this game. I wanted to play differently, but I choose to play the same. People will read into things that shouldn't be read into and ignore things that should be. Thats the constant I guess.

It's the REACTION that gets examined.
And then discussed. And then ignored or condemned.

As far as "quiet play" it is still a method of play, and it is up to the players involved how to deal with it.
Some form of Required Activity by the mod from each Player would be fine (turning in some kind of order), but I think Minimum Postcount is BS.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:43 pm

Yes, min postcount is crap.

Being awake for pop quizzes? That's something different.

I'd think Remus "The Educator" West would be all for random tests.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:47 pm

purge wrote: The other thing I find myself thinking about is that I hate the day1 crap-shoot lynch and the night-0 non-participation. I think there should be a dummy character that's killed the first night, and then an investigation which then starts off the actual kills. Isgrimnur basically didn't get to play because of it, and were it me, I'd lose interest in these games a lot faster.

eg:

Night 0 - all evil cycles get to happen except the kill selection.
Day 1 - body of NPC found - vote on lynch
Night 1 - first night that the "good guys" get to start their night cycle events.

This was actually discussed many moons ago. I liked the idea but for some reason it was never accepted. Wish I could remember why (seems it was the fact that killing a generic non player gave zero clues who to lynch). Of course there was not many clues in this game, if any, when Isgrimnur was killed.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:55 pm

as much as i dont like the silence play, it is a tactic. I know in one game I went purposely quiet for 6-7 days at first it was just me being quiet, then it was more of a curiosity how long i could get away with it (the legion game). I really think the best method of dealing with it is pretty much voting those people off. Pure and simple. For me it was a shock to get use to austin's participation rate this game, since previously he'd been extremely active...but i also hadn't been playing a lot. So basically start voting them folks off. Pure and simple.

Anyone seen scoop?

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:19 pm

Newcastle wrote: Anyone seen scoop?

I noticed he's been posting in the Blood Bowl threads, but that's about it.

He actually deleted me off his XBox Live friends list after went on during his ouster on Day 2.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:30 pm

Lassr wrote:
purge wrote: The other thing I find myself thinking about is that I hate the day1 crap-shoot lynch and the night-0 non-participation. I think there should be a dummy character that's killed the first night, and then an investigation which then starts off the actual kills. Isgrimnur basically didn't get to play because of it, and were it me, I'd lose interest in these games a lot faster.

eg:

Night 0 - all evil cycles get to happen except the kill selection.
Day 1 - body of NPC found - vote on lynch
Night 1 - first night that the "good guys" get to start their night cycle events.

This was actually discussed many moons ago. I liked the idea but for some reason it was never accepted. Wish I could remember why (seems it was the fact that killing a generic non player gave zero clues who to lynch). Of course there was not many clues in this game, if any, when Isgrimnur was killed.

We have tried this.
The nonentity kill simply puts one player up for the day1 crapshoot as the first player killed by group consensus rather than chosen by the bad guys.

Simpler explanation: that's how Werewolf is played. Info is info period

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:07 pm

spose one could let the village have blood on their hands first...

if one kills another for the death of a fictional member of the town... who is evil again?? persecuting a specific subset of the population without cause? what does that say about us as a community?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:47 pm

Kraegor wrote:persecuting a specific subset of the population without cause? what does that say about us as a community?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:47 pm

Kraegor wrote:if one kills another for the death of a fictional member of the town... who is evil again?? persecuting a specific subset of the population without cause? what does that say about us as a community?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:40 pm

pr0ner wrote:
Austin wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:I'd like to say that having TWENTY people play brought a tear to my eye.

Almost as good as having two or three games running at the same time.

Thanx Lassr.
That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.
Who had been pulling the disappearing act in the past?

In fairness it has typically been for, I assume, stressful real life situations. But it happened many times in a row it seemed where someone would go missing, drop from the forums for weeks and it would really hurt the game.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:45 pm

Austin wrote:That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.

Yeah, this time we just had someone sacrificed to a volcano and another stuck in the mountains. I thought the affected player handled the adversity beautifully, however.

Sean, Minister of KtSP · Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:02 pm

pr0ner wrote:
Austin wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:I'd like to say that having TWENTY people play brought a tear to my eye.

Almost as good as having two or three games running at the same time.

Thanx Lassr.
That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.
Who had been pulling the disappearing act in the past?

I did, for one. Last year when my life exploded in a hellstorm.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:05 pm

Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:
pr0ner wrote:
Austin wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:I'd like to say that having TWENTY people play brought a tear to my eye.

Almost as good as having two or three games running at the same time.

Thanx Lassr.
That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.
Who had been pulling the disappearing act in the past?
I did, for one. Last year when my life exploded in a hellstorm.

Was not just you by a long shot. Several times we had one or more players simply cease to come to the boards during a game.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:12 pm

stessier wrote:
Austin wrote:That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.
Yeah, this time we just had someone sacrificed to a volcano and another stuck in the mountains. I thought the affected player handled the adversity beautifully, however.

Yeah, other than the guy making sweet love to Pele screaming "IT'S TRIGGERCUT AND REMUS AND (wrong one deleted)!!!!!" without internet going unheard, except by dozens of scantily clad polynesian hotties waiting their turn.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:32 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
stessier wrote:
Austin wrote:That, and the fact nobody disappeared in the middle. That was getting really old.
Yeah, this time we just had someone sacrificed to a volcano and another stuck in the mountains. I thought the affected player handled the adversity beautifully, however.
Yeah, other than the guy making sweet love to Pele screaming "IT'S TRIGGERCUT AND REMUS AND (wrong one deleted)!!!!!" without internet going unheard, except by dozens of scantily clad polynesian hotties waiting their turn.

Pele? With all those women available? You sick twisted monkey.

I know it wasn't the goddess Pele since she is goddess of the volcano and there are no pills to take care of the burning sensation she would have given you.