Octopus Overlords

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:53 pm But it's not just COVID. He repealed *all* vaccination mandates, so kids in schools? No more vaccines are required. Even outside of the COVID pandemic, that's insanity. Childhood vaccinations are down nationwide, especially for teens that need MMR and DTaP boosters. Business mandates are one thing, but saying they're no longer a requirement for kids in schools? It really is like he's trying to encourage pain and suffering.

Whoa I had thought it was just Covid. We really need to rope off Texas and Florida. They are in an war to see who can come up with a crazier rule. I think Texas is "winning" with this new one.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:20 pm I can't honestly believe he expects this will actually work. He has to be trying to gain favor for his next political move because there's no way a court will say this is in any way acceptable.

I mean...there's no way a court will say this is in any way acceptable, right?

The modern GOP is in a cycle where their base and the Fox News bubble demands that they do increasingly crazy things. Often GOP politicians will try to square the circle by doing the maximally crazy thing and then counting on others (courts, Democrat-run institutions, etc.) to prevent them from actually doing their crazy things. The problem is as Republicans continue to erode institutions, more crazy things are going to start breaking through (like nearly repealing the ACA, the increasingly likely overturning of Roe v. Wade, etc.).

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:09 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:20 pm I can't honestly believe he expects this will actually work. He has to be trying to gain favor for his next political move because there's no way a court will say this is in any way acceptable.

I mean...there's no way a court will say this is in any way acceptable, right?

The modern GOP is in a cycle where their base and the Fox News bubble demands that they do increasingly crazy things. Often GOP politicians will try to square the circle by doing the maximally crazy thing and then counting on others (courts, Democrat-run institutions, etc.) to prevent them from actually doing their crazy things. The problem is as Republicans continue to erode institutions, more crazy things are going to start breaking through (like nearly repealing the ACA, the increasingly likely overturning of Roe v. Wade, etc.).

It is easy to see why. They can and they get rewarded. It's all negative feedback loops now. That is why the Democratic base is losing their minds and is increasingly calling for crazy action of their own. They just want the people they elected to help them to start making any sort of progress to combat this. And so far they've just haven't. One side is acting unconstrained and the other side won't even exercise their lawful powers. I am beginning to think it might be too little, too late. Any action the Democrats take will increase tensions. The chances seem certain we will see some major crack up of some sort and the Democrats should be thinking about doing what they can to limit the damage.

Geeee wonder how this all started to happen?...maybe the.....governor!??

Florida is short more than 5,000 teachers, education group says. The pandemic and low pay are to blame

Florida's teacher shortage has worsened since the start of the school year, with vacancies for teachers surging to more than 5,000, according to updated data from the Florida Education Association.

There are also more than 4,000 openings for other school staff positions, according to FEA President Andrew Spar.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:53 pm But it's not just COVID. He repealed *all* vaccination mandates, so kids in schools? No more vaccines are required. Even outside of the COVID pandemic, that's insanity. Childhood vaccinations are down nationwide, especially for teens that need MMR and DTaP boosters. Business mandates are one thing, but saying they're no longer a requirement for kids in schools? It really is like he's trying to encourage pain and suffering.

I saw you mention this yesterday, and couldn't believe it. So I checked, and it is just COVID, and he didn't repeal *all* vaccination mandates. At least by my reading.

It's still terrible, but it's not a blanket mandate ban.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:22 pm It's still terrible, but it's not a blanket mandate ban.

I've seen it reported two ways since last night. That his intention was to immediately stop any COVID-19 mandates (which matches the language from the quote I used, specifically naming prior COVID-19 infection as a valid reason to not be vaccinated), but that the language he used to sign the EA could be interpreted to mean *any* vaccination mandate.

The idea that I'd even question if he could/would is telling enough. It wouldn't surprise me to learn he absolutely intended it to be a full ban on any vaccines and will just walk it back once he's called out.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:37 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:22 pm It's still terrible, but it's not a blanket mandate ban.

I've seen it reported two ways since last night. That his intention was to immediately stop any COVID-19 mandates (which matches the language from the quote I used, specifically naming prior COVID-19 infection as a valid reason to not be vaccinated), but that the language he used to sign the EA could be interpreted to mean *any* vaccination mandate.

The idea that I'd even question if he could/would is telling enough. It wouldn't surprise me to learn he absolutely intended it to be a full ban on any vaccines and will just walk it back once he's called out.

That's why I linked the EO itself. Let me know what you think after reading it. I've definitely seen conflicting reporting, as you said.

What I had seen was that the EO was just for Covid and that he would work to get legislation that would ban all mandates. All aboard the crazy train!! Wooo wooooo

It's a weird order. Or perhaps all EOs are weird.

It's called

Relating to prohibiting vaccine mandates,

But it states

No entity in Texas can compel receipt of a COVID-19 vaccine by any
individual, including an employee or a consumer, who objects to such
vaccination for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious
belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from COVID-19.
I hereby suspend all relevant statutes to the extent necessary to enforce
this prohibition.

Why isn't it called Relating to the prohibiting COVID-19 vaccine mandates? Isn't that just a 7th grade understanding of how to title things?

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:23 pm It's a weird order. Or perhaps all EOs are weird.

It's called

Relating to prohibiting vaccine mandates,

But it states

No entity in Texas can compel receipt of a COVID-19 vaccine by any
individual, including an employee or a consumer, who objects to such
vaccination for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious
belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from COVID-19.
I hereby suspend all relevant statutes to the extent necessary to enforce
this prohibition.

Why isn't it called Relating to the prohibiting COVID-19 vaccine mandates? Isn't that just a 7th grade understanding of how to title things?

I guess it comes down to what "relevant statutes" need to be suspended to enforce the prohibition on mandatory COVID vaccines.

While not a Texas constitutional lawyer this whole thing sounded super dubious. A quick search turns up this section in the Texas constitution. That seems pretty clear and absolute.

Section 28 - SUSPENSION OF LAWS
No power of suspending laws in this State shall be exercised except by the Legislature.

His order does state

subject to legislative action

But I am not smart enough to work that into the context of EO. Does that mean it's a bandage until the legislature acts? Does that mean the EO is a facade and needs legislative approval? Does it mean something else entirely.

Also are the smilies new?

Have we always had

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:56 pm That's why I linked the EO itself. Let me know what you think after reading it. I've definitely seen conflicting reporting, as you said.

I did some poking (having no familiarity with TX) and the additional codes he's referencing in his order are...odd. The first two relate to emergency management (individuals specifically in charge) and the last one (Chapter 81 Subchapter E) relates to mandatory HIV training for state employees and contractors. Either I'm really bad at looking up TX codes or something is ultra hinky.

But yes, the language of the order (not the summary at the top of the EO) is very much focused on COVID-19. It could be that when news broke, they were only given the title to the EO ("Relating to prohibiting vaccine mandates,subject to legislative action) and weren't given a fully copy until later.

He's basically saying in the EO that TX has the ability to decide what they mandate and Biden does not.

But...the very first thing he declares includes:

"I hereby suspend all relevant statutes to the extent necessary to enforce this prohibition"

If COVID-19 orders are somehow being enforced "through Chapter 161 of the Texas Health and Safety Code" (my brief check on Chapter 161 of the Texas Health and Safety Code suggests it guidance for vaccination requirements) then...it seems (to me) like he is suspending *all* statues as a way to make sure COVID-19 mandates aren't enforced.

And sure enough, part of Chapter 161 includes mandatory vaccination requirements for all TX children in schools.

So I still don't know, but it's being largely reported as a COVID-19 mandate issue. Maybe "to the extent necessary" is the out here. I just don't know. I guess if a parent in TX declares tomorrow they're not vaccinating their kid for school, we'll find out real quick.

Whelp, there it is.

Reject tyranny, catch the #FreedomFlu

The Texas thing really really smells exactly like a Trump play. Use an executive order to announce something you think the public wants, regardless of legal standing. This makes you look good in the eyes of the public you are courting. Then the legality of the order gets tied up, and there is a long slow period of untangling it. And it doesn't matter if it ultimately gets struck down or not. You got the boost you wanted, and by the time the final results of the order are sorted out by legal, you and the public have already moved on to your next shenanigan.

Yup that's all the rage now. Texas and Florida pass ridiculous things that will never hold up in court to get a headline. The sad thing is that some of the stuff may hold up because we're so broken. I mean freaking Florida is fining counties millions of dollars because they have mask mandates. We're so freaking broken.

Isn't a way around it to say that they are not compelling anyone to do anything. If you get the vaccine, you are rewarded with a job opportunity. If not, then you have chosen to forgo the job opportunity.

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 4:59 pm Isn't a way around it to say that they are not compelling anyone to do anything. If you get the vaccine, you are rewarded with a job opportunity. If not, then you have chosen to forgo the job opportunity.

Like, allowing for businesses to choose their own path, free of government intervention? I don't think that's the GOP's bag.

Politics in New Hampshire:

The vaccination contracts that sparked disruptive protests that shut down an Executive Council meeting two weeks ago were voted down at Wednesday's Council meeting.

The scope of the two contracts included $27 million in federal funding that would have created 13 state health department positions for immunization work. The positions included vaccine outreach, assistance for health care providers navigating the logistics of vaccines and support for data entry on the state’s immunization information system. Health officials had described the contracts, and the money tied to them, as key to boosting the state's vaccination efforts.

Councilor Cinde Warmington, a Democrat, was the only councilor to vote in favor of the funding. All four Republicans on the council voted against the money.

Some things were approved but note:

For protestors, the “no” vote on the contracts at the heart of their demands was a success. As soon as the contracts were voted down, the remaining crowd left the building, cheering.

An absolute tragedy:

The United States is wasting millions of Covid-19 vaccine doses even as shortages plague many parts of the world.

At least 15m doses were scrapped in the US between March and September, according to one analysis of CDC data. A separate investigation found 1m doses were discarded in 10 states between December and July.

States continue tossing unused shots. Louisiana has thrown out 224,000 unused doses of the Covid vaccines – a rate that has almost tripled since the end of July, even as a deadly fourth wave of the virus gripped the state. Some of the lost doses came from opening and not finishing vials, but more than 20,000 shots simply expired.

Thousands of doses are reportedly wasted each day in Wisconsin. In Alabama, more than 65,000 doses have been tossed; in Tennessee, it’s almost 200,000.

Of note:

In the face of global inequities, it’s not as simple as states donating unused vaccines. The doses already distributed to states can’t be repurposed internationally because of bureaucratic and safety concerns around storing the vaccines correctly.

Joe Biden has vowed to vaccinate 70% of the world in the next year, and has committed to donate several million doses for use abroad. But in the meantime, many countries are struggling to provide shots to the most vulnerable and those working on the frontlines of the pandemic, while Americans refuse the immunizations.

NBA continue to let individual teams figure out their own mandate on players, while requiring staff to be vaccinated, and none of the teams issued a mandate for the players, instead, using their home city's mandate and there are only three (SF, LA, and NYC) which only affects 5 teams.

Given that NBA players are already 90-95% vaxxed (says ESPN) it's just the few loudmouth holdouts like Kyrie Irving and Andrew Wiggins (who continue to whine that he vaxxed under protest) that's really holding things up. Most the holdouts claim they have "natural immunity", while some used the reason "vaccine doesn't work 100%, so I don't want it" bull****.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:21 pm An absolute tragedy:

The United States is wasting millions of Covid-19 vaccine doses even as shortages plague many parts of the world.

At least 15m doses were scrapped in the US between March and September, according to one analysis of CDC data. A separate investigation found 1m doses were discarded in 10 states between December and July.

States continue tossing unused shots. Louisiana has thrown out 224,000 unused doses of the Covid vaccines – a rate that has almost tripled since the end of July, even as a deadly fourth wave of the virus gripped the state. Some of the lost doses came from opening and not finishing vials, but more than 20,000 shots simply expired.

Thousands of doses are reportedly wasted each day in Wisconsin. In Alabama, more than 65,000 doses have been tossed; in Tennessee, it’s almost 200,000.

Of note:

In the face of global inequities, it’s not as simple as states donating unused vaccines. The doses already distributed to states can’t be repurposed internationally because of bureaucratic and safety concerns around storing the vaccines correctly.

Joe Biden has vowed to vaccinate 70% of the world in the next year, and has committed to donate several million doses for use abroad. But in the meantime, many countries are struggling to provide shots to the most vulnerable and those working on the frontlines of the pandemic, while Americans refuse the immunizations.

As far as headlines go, it seems like the rest of the world stopped existing regarding Covid. I imagine it must still be ripping through low vaccinated populations.

Alefroth wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:19 pm As far as headlines go, it seems like the rest of the world stopped existing regarding Covid. I imagine it must still be ripping through low vaccinated populations.

It is, though guess who's still #1? It's beyond shameful.

Of course there are going to be arguments over actual numbers vs reported numbers as well. Africa in particular has a real problem not only with reporting cases but also recording deaths (in general).

More than 60 school districts have met MA's 80% vax threshold to drop their mask mandate. Only two have applied for the exemption, and one of those is having second thoughts.

“Masks and vaccinations [have] become so politicized you wind up in a situation with the higher the vaccination rate in a community, the more likely they are to want to keep the masks in place,” Piwowar said. “And the lower the vaccination rate, the more they want the masks to be taken off.” In Piwowar’s Billerica district, with teen vaccination rates well below the 80 percent threshold, parents have protested mask requirements.

(Tim Piwowar is superintendent of Billerica Public Schools and president of the superintendent’s association.)

I need to keep track of things, so I'll put this here. If you want to see a perfect example of the HUGE disconnect between what was happening at a federal level (National Institutes of Health) and a local level (the people in charge of getting communities vaccinated), here you go:

“We underestimated the vaccine hesitancy issue.” @NIHDirector on what could have been done differently, as 66 million remain unvaxxed. “I wish we had somehow seen that coming and come up with some kind of a myth-buster approach.”

This has been an issue for 20+ years (vaccine hesitancy) and the NIH director (on his way out the door) is remarking that maybe something should have been done about that. I don't know how you're the head of the NIH and you didn't know about vaccine hesitancy and the growing anti vaccination movement. Even if that were somehow true, so many people (public health experts, researchers, academics) were saying in 2020 that getting people vaccinated was going to be a problem. This didn't just magically appear out of nowhere!

My remark on that NIH thing was... There are two things in the "vaccine hesitancy"... a minority of misinformation super-spreaders and a bunch of sheeple who eat all that up (which itself falls into two types... the granola-eating white yuppies with children that distrusts medicine in general... and the disaffected persecuted minority who believes the system's out to get them). Beyond them, there are a bunch of confused people who know they are getting non-sense from the antivaxxers but are not sure which way to lean due to propaganda and personal relationship with the antivaxxers.

The true antivaxxers CANNOT be convinced with facts. They go by truthiness instead.

The confused folks are smart enough to NOT make up their own mind and instead trust authorities such as their own doctor and so on. But they can be temporarily overwhelmed by antivax talking points and emotional appeal. But when government says "do it", they do.

With Republicans determined to make public health a political issue, NIH, which is supposed to be a science institution, is basically caught unaware that it needs to be running a PSA / PR campaign. And that is definitely its own fault for not seeing the need for such long before the need. It is just too naive.

WTF, Flori-duh...

Florida school ordered vaxxed student to stay home for 30 days after each shot, even as they claimed they are not antivaxxers. They apparently believe that vaxxed students can "infect" unvaxxed students.

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:50 pm WTF, Flori-duh...

Florida school ordered vaxxed student to stay home for 30 days after each shot, even as they claimed they are not antivaxxers. They apparently believe that vaxxed students can "infect" unvaxxed students.

I just saw this on CNN. It's pretty much as reported. Can't add much other than the future Secretary of Health and Human Services in a Republican administration will probably come from that school

What morons. Good riddance. Lost is very strange phrasing considering 700K people are dead. Those people are truly lost. These guys essentially quit their jobs.

To protect and serve*

*unless it involves getting vaccinated.

F.Them.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:11 pm To protect and serve

LAPD marketing.

Mises.org

The US Supreme Court has made it clear that law enforcement agencies are not required to provide protection to the citizens who are forced to pay the police for their "services."

In the cases DeShaney vs. Winnebago and Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales, the supreme court has ruled that police agencies are not obligated to provide protection of citizens. In other words, police are well within their rights to pick and choose when to intervene to protect the lives and property of others — even when a threat is apparent.

Fair. Though if they're not getting vaccinated, I don't need the Supreme Court to say they're not obligated to protect me!

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:32 pm Lost is very strange phrasing

Made me confuzzled.

Referring to them as "lost" feeds their martyrdom narrative.

Yeah, they're not lost.They're at home watching Fox and Friends and waiting to hear from their union rep.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:38 pm Fair. Though if they're not getting vaccinated, I don't need the Supreme Court to say they're not obligated to protect me!

I wish someone would do some data mining on it, as I bet the officers that were 'lost' are also officers with an above average number of complaints, etc. I'm of the mind that we are much better off without these cops. (and health care people with the same stance)...

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:32 pm What morons. Good riddance. Lost is very strange phrasing considering 700K people are dead. Those people are truly lost. These guys essentially quit their jobs.

I think this beats out their pathetic self serving display…

My son started up dance class again a few weeks ago, after an 18 month Covid break. He told me before I dropped him off that he's the only one in class that wears a mask. The teacher does too...but otherwise, he's correct. I'm proud of him (and his 5 year old sister) because they take it so seriously.