[WW] Prom Night Massacre - 1:30 AM - Game Over!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:18 pm

Where is the sleeping/drooling smiley?

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:57 am

I'm, like, totally bored. Srsly.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:48 am

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:03 pm

My apologies. I'm actually really busy with work at the moment. I will have the write up ready this afternoon. Thanks for your understanding.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:06 pm

Prom Night Massacre - 12:59 AM

The students voted. They had no choice. Voting with fear the students reached a majority for Lassr. Faced with his impending death Lassr requested that Theohall pull the trigger. With a deep breath, Theohall picked up the gun and fired it at Lassr.

The bullet struck Lassr between the eyes. Lassr fell to the ground still staring accusingly at Theohall. Theohall dropped the gun covering his face and waited. The clock ticked down until ...

Prom Night Massacre - 1:00 AM

It is pitch black.

Boilerplate Night:

Killer:
Do you wish to slit someone's throat and if so who?
OR
Do you wish to attempt to kill two students? If so, who is your primary target and who is your secondary target?

Do you wish to use your crazy senses to see who many couples are left?

Prom King:
Who do you wish to scan?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:30 pm

Interesting that the Queen, if alive, declined to cause a backfire on theohall.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:22 pm

think the killer got lucky?

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:29 pm

Semaj wrote:think the killer got lucky?

Nope.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:09 pm

Semaj wrote:think the killer got lucky?

Any day that Slashy survives is a day that Slashy got lucky.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:20 pm

Prom Night Massacre - 1:05 AM

The lights come back on, the cellar door is locked tight! Everyone looks around and realizes no one has been killed. Instead a note lies on the ground next to a gun. The note reads, "Choose a student and kill them with the gun. If you can't choose, I kill you all!"

Boilerplate Day:

Killer:
Do you wish to use your secret vote?

Prom Queen:
Do you wish to rig the gun to backfire killing the person firing it?

Players:

1. Isgrimnur
2. Kelric
3. theohall
4. Chaosraven
5. tru1cy
6. Unagi - Dead
7. Remus West
8. Mr Bubbles - Dead
9. Newcastle - Dead
10. Semaj
11. Grundbegriff
12. Lassr - Dead

Majority is 5 votes.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:22 pm

I'd say we got lucky on a failed double attempt. Yay us!

Now who do we run up the flagpole this time?

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:25 pm

If the I cant be killed got attacked, she should come out for the rest of us. Since that 1 trick pony is up.

If not, we got ourselves a yay time.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:26 pm

Only twice (2) per game and not on the first night, the killer can attempt to kill two students. First, the killer names his primary target. Second, he names his secondary target. If the secondary target is single (partner has already been killed on a previous night or partner is the primary target) then both targets are killed. If the secondary target is part of a couple, then both victims are spared (killer gets no kill that night). Also, if either the primary target or secondary target are the Female Heroine then both victims are spared (killer gets no kill that night). The secondary victim realizes an attempt was made on his or her life but the primary target is unaware.

If it is the second aspect - that is, one of the targets was the Female Heroine, should the second victim come forward? And with that, do we believe said second target?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:45 pm

Ok now I have to go check the rules.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:14 pm

Ok so let me lay out scenarios. Being notified of survival, in the event I am part of a couple it means either secondary target or fem hero. In the event my partner is dead it means either myself or other target is fem hero. In the event I was only target, makes me fem hero.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:38 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Ok so let me lay out scenarios. Being notified of survival, in the event I am part of a couple it means either secondary target or fem hero. In the event my partner is dead it means either myself or other target is fem hero. In the event I was only target, makes me fem hero.

Re-reading the rulz, you really shouldn't be helping the Killer by laying that out so clearly. He knows if he went after one or two targets. He also knows, if there were two, which was primary and secondary, and the primary gets no notice, unless she was the Female Heroine.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:47 pm

I disagree. If someone else was notified then we will know one of the two of us is fem hero. Whatever info the killer has (ie one or two targets etc) he already knows. If I was not primary target then he knows either I have a partner or one of his targets is fem hero. By not discussing the options we will have less info.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Semaj wrote:If the I cant be killed got attacked, she should come out for the rest of us. Since that 1 trick pony is up.

If not, we got ourselves a yay time.

Issues:
Yay time or not, we don't know if the Killer targeted one or two. If she comes forward and he targeted two, that gives him an automatic target if we don't shoot him and the lights go out again. By staying in the dark, he still has to choose from those two and guess which one was the Female Heroine. (Assuming the secondary target wasn't still in a couple).

The counter, if he only targeted one, he already knows who she is and stepping forward would give us a smaller pool to hunt through to find the Killer.

Another option - Chaosraven is the Killer, found out his double-kill didn't work, and is trying to throw us off the trail by essentially claiming Female Heroine or spared because the other target (if there were two) was in a couple.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:02 pm

Female Heroine - The Achilles heal of all killers, the Female Heroine can not be killed by the Killer. If the Killer targets the Female Heroine, she is able to fight him off and killer gets no kill that night. If the Female Heroine is attacked by the Killer, she will know she has been attacked and survived but will not know the identity of her attacker.

So yeah... the response

theohall wrote:
Semaj wrote:If the I cant be killed got attacked, she should come out for the rest of us. Since that 1 trick pony is up.

If not, we got ourselves a yay time.
Issues:
Yay time or not, we don't know if the Killer targeted one or two. If she comes forward and he targeted two, that gives him an automatic target if we don't shoot him and the lights go out again. By staying in the dark, he still has to choose from those two and guess which one was the Female Heroine. (Assuming the secondary target wasn't still in a couple).

[/quote]

confuses me greatly

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:14 pm

Semaj wrote:Female Heroine - The Achilles heal of all killers, the Female Heroine can not be killed by the Killer. If the Killer targets the Female Heroine, she is able to fight him off and killer gets no kill that night. If the Female Heroine is attacked by the Killer, she will know she has been attacked and survived but will not know the identity of her attacker.

So yeah... the response

theohall wrote:
Semaj wrote:If the I cant be killed got attacked, she should come out for the rest of us. Since that 1 trick pony is up.

If not, we got ourselves a yay time.
Issues:
Yay time or not, we don't know if the Killer targeted one or two. If she comes forward and he targeted two, that gives him an automatic target if we don't shoot him and the lights go out again. By staying in the dark, he still has to choose from those two and guess which one was the Female Heroine. (Assuming the secondary target wasn't still in a couple).

confuses me greatly[/quote]

Let's say the Killer went after two targets. One of them was the Female Heroine. The Killer does not know which of the two was the Female Heroine. If she steps forward, the other target would be a certain target for the Killer while he knows to avoid the Female Heroine.

The counter - which I think is CR's point - is she steps forward and becomes "unshootable," unless someone is faking the role. This is also a possibility due to the "secondary target if in a couple" being informed thing.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:49 pm

The simple part of this is one other player will have the info. Anyone else notified last night knows that one of us is fem hero. In the event nobody else was notified we have less info than the killer.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:03 pm

Chaosraven wrote:The simple part of this is one other player will have the info. Anyone else notified last night knows that one of us is fem hero. In the event nobody else was notified we have less info than the killer.

+1

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:02 am

No Death At Night: Possible Explanations:

(a) The Killer attacked only the Female Heroine.
(a') Notification: the Killer knows who the Female Heroine is, and he will not attack her again.
(a'') Notification: The Female Heroine learns of the attack.

Question: When the Female Heroine learns that she was attacked, she'll know she's the FH if she's single. But if the FH is in a couple and learns that she was attacked, does she learn that she's the FH, or is she left to wonder whether she was saved by being in a couple while secondarily targeted?

(b) The Killer doubled down, but his secondary target was part of a couple and neither target was the Female Heroine.

(b') Notification: the Killer knows that at least one of the following is true:
(b')(1) His secondary was part of a couple, or
(b')(2) His primary was the Female Heroine, or
(b')(3) His secondary was the Female Heroine

(b'') Notification: if neither target was the Female Heroine, then the secondary learns of the attempted kill and the primary does not

(c) The Killer doubled down, but either his primary or secondary target was the Female Heroine

(c') Notification: Same as (b')
(c'') Notification: if the secondary was the Female Heroine, then the secondary (regardless of coupling) learns of the attempted kill and the primary does not
(c''') Notification: if the primary was the Female Heroine, then the primary learns of the attempted kill and the secondary (even if in a couple?) does not (?)

(Question: Which causes the killer's failure when both are true? The fact that the secondary was in a couple, or the fact that the primary was the FH?)

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:09 am

Scoop20906 wrote:The Female Heroine will always know she was attacked whether she is the primary or secondary target or a single target. However, just to muddy the water a little, the message to the Female Heroine and the surviving secondary target will read exactly the same - That they survived an attack by the killer but do not know who it is.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:14 am

Grundbegriff wrote: Question: When the Female Heroine learns that she was attacked, she'll know she's the FH if she's single. But if the FH is in a couple and learns that she was attacked, does she learn that she's the FH, or is she left to wonder whether she was saved by being in a couple while secondarily targeted?

The Female Heroine and the Secondary Target receive the same message if the are attacked by the killer.

Grundbegriff wrote:(Question: Which causes the killer's failure when both are true? The fact that the secondary was in a couple, or the fact that the primary was the FH?)

In the event that the primary target was the Female Heroine and the secondary target is part of the couple, both players will learned they were attacked by the Killer. Both will receive the same message.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:15 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:The Female Heroine will always know she was attacked whether she is the primary or secondary target or a single target. However, just to muddy the water a little, the message to the Female Heroine and the surviving secondary target will read exactly the same - That they survived an attack by the killer but do not know who it is.

Thanks, I couldn't remember where I wrote that.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:21 am

Chaosraven wrote:Ok so let me lay out scenarios. Being notified of survival, in the event I am part of a couple it means either secondary target or fem hero. In the event my partner is dead it means either myself or other target is fem hero. In the event I was only target, makes me fem hero.

Wrong. If your partner is dead and the other target is the fem hero, then you wouldn't be notified because you'd be either a primary target (not notified) or irrelevant.

Suppose Jamie receives word that an attempt was made on her life. What can she infer?

If she's single, then (s) she is the Female Heroine. For if she were the non-FH primary to a coupled secondary, she wouldn't have been notified at all.

If she's coupled, then maybe (s) she is the Female Heroine or maybe (t) she was the secondary target or both (s) & (t).

Conclusion: If you received notification last night and you are not in a couple, then you are the Female Heroine and you should step forward now. After all, Slashy's not going to try to kill you again.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:24 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Ok so let me lay out scenarios. Being notified of survival, in the event I am part of a couple it means either secondary target or fem hero. In the event my partner is dead it means either myself or other target is fem hero. In the event I was only target, makes me fem hero.
Suppose Jamie receives word that an attempt was made on her life. What can she infer?

If she's single, then (s) she is the Female Heroine. For if she were the non-FH primary to a coupled secondary, she wouldn't have been notified at all.

If she's coupled, then maybe (s) she is the Female Heroine or maybe (t) she was the secondary target or both (s) & (t).

Conclusion: If you received notification last night and you are not in a couple, then you are the Female Heroine and you should step forward now. After all, Slashy's not going to try to kill you again.

Umm.... If the Female Heroine is uncoupled and was the primary target while the secondary target is still in a couple, doesn't this give the Killer a clearer choice of whom to kill if he tried to kill two people? I get the more information thing for us. Just asking the question.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:36 am

theohall wrote:Umm.... If the Female Heroine is uncoupled and was the primary target while the secondary target is still in a couple, doesn't this give the Killer a clearer choice of whom to kill if he tried to kill two people? I get the more information thing for us. Just asking the question.

Yes, that's right.

Scoop says that if the two targets are (1) a Female Heroine, and (2) a member of a couple, then both will receive a notification. All Slashy will know is that he targeted Betty and Veronica and that nobody died. He doesn't know which of {Betty, Veronica} caused his failure.

Suppose Jamie receives word that she was attacked, and Jamie is single. Jamie infers (correctly) that she is the Female Heroine since that's the only way that a single person receives a notification. What Jamie doesn't know is whether a coupled secondary was also attacked. So yeah-- if Jamie steps forward as FH and she was the only target, then she's telling all the rest of us something that Slashy already knows. However, if Jamie steps forward as FH and was actually the primary target in a double-down, then that'll tell Slashy that his other target is a killable member of a couple.

This actually poses a choice, then. There might be wisdom in leaving the FH covert. After all, if Slashy can't tell the difference between Betty and Veronice, he'll avoid attacking both for fear of wasting a kill on the FH. However, if he avoids killing both, then that helps to conserve whatever couple Veronica is in.

Don't step forward, FH! Stay hidden!

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:39 am

So Jamie shouldn't say anything then, correct?

Edit - I guess the bold font of yours said the same thing. Reading comprehension might help.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:41 am

Kelric wrote:So Jamie shouldn't say anything then, correct?

theohall has persuaded me that that is the correct move.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:44 am

That comment doesn't necessarily reassure me.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:15 am

On the other hand a prom king with three scans (asssuming they live) still alive with a partner? What about the partner passing out that info?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:20 am

Chaosraven wrote:On the other hand a prom king with three scans (asssuming they live) still alive with a partner? What about the partner passing out that info?

Suppose someone steps up and says "I'm the partner of the King, and here's info about X, Y, and Z".

If that person is actually the King's partner, then Slashy now knows of a coupled (someone whose death is conducive to Slashy-victory).
If that person is actually the King who has a partner and is role-swapping with that partner, then Slashy knows a coupled.
If that person is actually the King and is single, that's somewhat better, but Slashy might still target the King as secondary in a twofer.
If that person is actually Slashy, then he'd be gambling that the King is dead-- pretty risky, given that Slashy has no role info.

This one doesn't seem clear-cut to me. I'd say it depends on how interesting the gathered data are.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:23 am

Chaosraven wrote:On the other hand a prom king with three scans (asssuming they live) still alive with a partner? What about the partner passing out that info?

This would also give away a member of a couple. Giving away members of living couples is bad. Of course, sometimes we have to crack some eggs to make breakfast. Just not sure the best course. Information for us vs information for the Killer. Last round, not giving the Killer info was the deciding factor. I've got a feeling this should still be the case.

The problem isn't about revealing roles. The problem is in revealing members of couples.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:27 am

All the speculation is getting tiresome. There seems to be no legitimate motive for anyone to say anything. Any extra piece of information is bound to be more harmful than good, so we're back to picking at random.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:32 am

Isgrimnur wrote:All the speculation is getting tiresome. There seems to be no legitimate motive for anyone to say anything. Any extra piece of information is bound to be more harmful than good, so we're back to picking at random.

Might as well get started.

Semaj

No real reason. Just need to pick someone.

I fully expect Grundbegriff to accuse me again or Remus West to "suspect" me and finally accuse me. So let's see what happens.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:33 am

Actually the issue is not revealing roles or couples. It's finding a lone wolf. It's pretty obvious a guy with a 'Killer' result should share. But at what critical mass do the collective 'not the killer' make it important? To reduce the pool?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:44 am

Chaosraven wrote:But at what critical mass do the collective 'not the killer' make it important? To reduce the pool?

Let's see....

Chaosraven - maybe Slashy - maybe coupled
Grundbegriff - not Slashy - maybe coupled
Isgrimnur - maybe Slashy - maybe coupled
Kelric - maybe Slashy - maybe coupled
Remus West - maybe Slashy - maybe coupled
Semaj - maybe Slashy - maybe coupled
theohall - maybe Slashy - maybe coupled
tru1cy - maybe Slashy - maybe coupled

The problem with declaring (say) three people innocent (which would effectively vindicate the King himself as a fourth) is this: with eight, it's not just a matter of burning through the four remaining, because Slashy is capable of double kills.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:14 am

So only a Killer result does us any good?