Crusader Kings II

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue May 28, 2013 11:24 pm

Summer is coming.

Godzilla Blitz · Post by **Godzilla Blitz** » Wed May 29, 2013 1:41 pm

hepcat wrote:Looks like the Old Gods expansion is out. 14.99 seems a bit steep but I'll probably bite.

I played again last night and thought things looked different. They apparently released a big patch to 1.10 in anticipation of the expansion. It's pretty extensive, with lots of nice additions:
Patch Change List Thread

Here's the Paradox extreme release trailer:
YouTube Trailer

I'm very interested in the expansion as well: Vikings, looting and pillaging, adventurers who can gather armies and eventually start their own nations. Most excellent stuff. $15 isn't much, but on principle I generally try to get games at a discount. I think I'm going to finish the Spanish game I'm working on now and play one or two more, while keeping an eye out for a sale or discount. If it's still $15 in two or three weeks, I'll just pony up and pay the $15.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Wed May 29, 2013 1:49 pm

Noooooo.... You all got me to buy Distant Worlds, and I am not spending 15 bucks on this expansion..Nope not gonna happen.

Let the bad reviews come pouring in!!!! Now... Please... My bank account is begging you...

Thanks for the link. I am really trying to hold off until after my vacation to buy this, but these are great games, to pop open in the hotel/rental house and play while in bed.

My girls love to watch me play games..And there is nothing worse than having my wife get pissed because I am plying something bad... IE - Borderlands 2. Two of my daughters read, and when the one(my 6 year old) screamed out: "Look it's one of those BIG ASS things, kill that ASS!!!"

Well let's just say, that I got a talking too, and I can no longer play that game with the girls. <sigh>

Godzilla Blitz · Post by **Godzilla Blitz** » Wed May 29, 2013 2:12 pm

RMC wrote:My girls love to watch me play games..And there is nothing worse than having my wife get pissed because I am plying something bad... IE - Borderlands 2. Two of my daughters read, and when the one(my 6 year old) screamed out: "Look it's one of those BIG ASS things, kill that ASS!!!"

Well let's just say, that I got a talking too, and I can no longer play that game with the girls. <sigh>

Ha! Good humor!

My daughter (9) loves relationship-type games and wanted to play Crusader Kings 2 after I shared with her the stories of kings at the age of two, bastard sons, and daughters sent off to England to become the queen. The mechanics and politics are somewhat above her interest level at the moment, and the pace is a bit slow, but we started a game in Ireland last night. I'd explain situations to her, we'd make decisions, and she likes naming the kids. (Our heir is Pizza McFiz.)

It seems like a good game for kids to learn history—maybe not the factual specifics, but certainly the main concepts of medieval history.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Wed May 29, 2013 2:29 pm

Godzilla Blitz wrote:
RMC wrote:My girls love to watch me play games..And there is nothing worse than having my wife get pissed because I am plying something bad... IE - Borderlands 2. Two of my daughters read, and when the one(my 6 year old) screamed out: "Look it's one of those BIG ASS things, kill that ASS!!!"

Well let's just say, that I got a talking too, and I can no longer play that game with the girls. <sigh>
Ha! Good humor!

My daughter (9) loves relationship-type games and wanted to play Crusader Kings 2 after I shared with her the stories of kings at the age of two, bastard sons, and daughters sent off to England to become the queen. The mechanics and politics are somewhat above her interest level at the moment, and the pace is a bit slow, but we started a game in Ireland last night. I'd explain situations to her, we'd make decisions, and she likes naming the kids. (Our heir is Pizza McFiz.)

It seems like a good game for kids to learn history—maybe not the factual specifics, but certainly the main concepts of medieval history.

Nice to know others do this as well. Fallen Enchantress is a great game to play with the kids as well. I think Zarathud has said his daughter calls it the princess dress up game.

I love finding a game that my girls can make characters in and then interact with them in a good way. Thanks for sharing.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Wed May 29, 2013 2:31 pm

I'm going to get this and Distant Worlds mixed up while playing, aren't I? I'm going to try and use one of my character's sons to build a gas mine while playing CK2...then attempt to marry off one of my intelligence agents to a pirate in Distant Worlds. I just know it...

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Wed May 29, 2013 2:40 pm

hepcat wrote:I'm going to get this and Distant Worlds mixed up while playing, aren't I? I'm going to try and use one of my character's sons to build a gas mine while playing CK2...then attempt to marry off one of my intelligence agents to a pirate in Distant Worlds. I just know it...

Please write that AAR, that is all I want to see.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed May 29, 2013 9:55 pm

Crusader Kings II is the princess marriage simulator. It's far too boring for my kids to tolerate anymore.

My 6 year old will run up the stairs yelling "Daddy is playing a game that is INAPPROPRIATE!!!" with my wife's full support. She usually does this whenever there's fighting things (Spore), too much suspense (Costume Quest) or because she's bored (Racettear).

Fallen Enchantress walks the line because there are princesses but it's also "too fighty." I have to keep reminding her that it's HER princess who is fighting all the bad guys, then it's ok again. She also enjoys watching me die by the wolf in Minecraft, and fighting back is not permitted.

Godzilla Blitz · Post by **Godzilla Blitz** » Thu May 30, 2013 1:47 am

Well, so much for my plan to hold out. I used the Green Man Gaming 20% off code to pick up the The Old Gods Steam key for $12. (Coupon: GMG20-LLASD-D8WBQ)

It's funny how easy you can mess things up in this game. I'm up to the year 1129 in my current Spanish game, and I've totally borked my empire by having the king's son get educated by a Russian Orthodox mentor. The woman was brilliant, with high ratings across the board, so I figured it was a good move in my "genetic engineering" of Spanish mobility. Turns out that subsequently his grandson—who took over the country at the age of 2 when his dad was killed in battle—adopted both the Russian culture and the Orthodox religion. With the religious and cultural differences from the natives, 2/3 of his court and vassals hate him. I've kept him alive to age 11 with all sorts of trickery, but I'm running out of rabbits in the hat, and I'd be amazed if he makes it to 16. Unless I can get him to convert back to Catholicism before he gets a knife in the back or poisoned.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:19 pm

New DLC:

Sons of Abraham, all new content for Crusader Kings II is Now Available on Steam and is 10% off!*

Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham is the fifth expansion for the critically praised strategy/RPG. Gameplay focuses on the Abrahamic religions; Christianity, Islam and Judaism.

Get your bishops appointed cardinals and tap the might of the Papacy, borrow money from the Knights Templar and send troublesome relatives off to live out their days in a monastery. Sons of Abraham also introduces the Jewish religion and allows you to recreate the Kingdom of Israel and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem.

Additionally, checkout three additional DLC's that have just released, the Military Orders Unit Pack, Warriors of Faith Unit Pack, and Hymns of Abraham.

ChuckB · Post by **ChuckB** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:38 am

Hi,

I really enjoy playing CK2 at the moment and I have a question for the collective OO CK2 hive mind to verify my understanding of what's going on:

I started as the count of Dublin (roughly following the really good and highly recommended YouTube series of a certain SeeKayEm99), became the count of a few more counties, formed some duchies (and became the duke of them) and, finally, formed the kingdom of Ireland (and became the king).

I know hold the title of king of Ireland, the titles of 2 duchies (gave one to one of my two sons, who is NOT my heir) and 4 or 5 counties. I changed my succession laws to Primogeniture before I took the first duchy title.

A few questions:
1. There is no warning about a loss of titles at the moment and I believe the way it's currently set up, all titles will remain within my dynasty upon the death of my current "character", whereby the one son, who is not my heir but one of the dukes, would simply become the vassal of the heir-son, who will be king (and duke and count to my current titles) - is this correct?
2. Can there ever be a "loss of title" situation under primogeniture? I can't think of a scenario because everything should (1 to 1) fall to the heir, correct?
3. I'm wondering, if my decision to give one of the duchy titles to my non-heir son was a good idea (I couldn't give it to my heir-son, as he is the currently the count somewhere in France and there was NO option to grant him the title). It seems to me that this is not a big deal, as my heir-son will basically inherit his brother as a vassal on a lower-rank title level (duke vs. king). If they would both "only" be dukes upon the death of my current char, the heir-son would come out with less upon inheritance, but since the king title is higher, this shouldn't be an issue.

Thanks!

Chuck

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:32 am

I haven't played in a while so my answers may be foggy (or wrong), but...

ChuckB wrote:1. There is no warning about a loss of titles at the moment and I believe the way it's currently set up, all titles will remain within my dynasty upon the death of my current "character", whereby the one son, who is not my heir but one of the dukes, would simply become the vassal of the heir-son, who will be king (and duke and count to my current titles) - is this correct?

Correct. Son 1 gets the Kingdom and all the glory, Son 2 gets the shaft and the dukedom.

2. Can there ever be a "loss of title" situation under primogeniture? I can't think of a scenario because everything should (1 to 1) fall to the heir, correct?
3. I'm wondering, if my decision to give one of the duchy titles to my non-heir son was a good idea (I couldn't give it to my heir-son, as he is the currently the count somewhere in France and there was NO option to grant him the title). It seems to me that this is not a big deal, as my heir-son will basically inherit his brother as a vassal on a lower-rank title level (duke vs. king). If they would both "only" be dukes upon the death of my current char, the heir-son would come out with less upon inheritance, but since the king title is higher, this shouldn't be an issue.

Someone with more knowledge than me should take this one, but.... The only scenario I can think of right now would be if the oldest child was born under circumstances where they counted as the other side of the marriage. So if you had a Prince you didn't really want and married him off to some woman with the understanding that all children fell under her family tree, there may be an issue if those kids wound up having to inherit.

You may run into some political wrangling when Son 1 inherits the Kingdom because he is a current vassal of France, but I don't think it will change the inheritance. France may just want you to ally up.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:39 am

Kelric wrote:Someone with more knowledge than me should take this one

This is one of the way that CKII intimidates me, it's really deep and often there is no obvious way to know why something is happening. I have the latest DLC on my Steam wishlist and when it goes on sale and I finally pick it up, I've promised myself I'm going to give it a lot more of my time.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:54 am

If you hover over the title in question it should show you who will succeed which title. As long as you don't do a Matrilineal marriage all titles should remain with your chosen line

I'm currently playing as the Von Oldenburg and my current guy is the Kaiser with four sons well. three I had to kill one as he became a pagan I couldn't have that in my line. Since the HRE is an elective Monarchy my Eldest son stands to gain the Throne at the moment, but he will get my choice titles, King of Germany, Denmark & Italy while the next oldest will get King of Sweden and the youngest will get Duke of Gelere

I forgot to mention I married my eldest off to the daughter of the King of Poland since he had a son I never imagined she would gain the Throne. I was looking for the alliance as I was in the middle of a brutal war with France and had a major rebellion in the Italian peninsula, but to make a long story short I settled White Peace with France and crushed the rebellion. The old Polish King died and his unpopular son gained the Throne and of course his Dukes soon rebelled and won and installed my daughter in law to the Polish Throne making my son King of Poland. Since it wasn't a matrilineal marriage my line will soon gain the Kingdom of Poland... they already have a son

Love this game and the learning curve is immense, but once you commit and make the errors and learn from your mistakes the game is really rewarding when you plans finally come together

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:30 pm

jztemple2 wrote:
Kelric wrote:Someone with more knowledge than me should take this one
This is one of the way that CKII intimidates me, it's really deep and often there is no obvious way to know why something is happening. I have the latest DLC on my Steam wishlist and when it goes on sale and I finally pick it up, I've promised myself I'm going to give it a lot more of my time.

Start small. Ireland is usually a safe bet to learn the game. You pretty much just have to dive right in while checking out wiki info on the game.

ChuckB · Post by **ChuckB** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:06 pm

Kelric wrote:
jztemple2 wrote:
Kelric wrote:Someone with more knowledge than me should take this one
This is one of the way that CKII intimidates me, it's really deep and often there is no obvious way to know why something is happening. I have the latest DLC on my Steam wishlist and when it goes on sale and I finally pick it up, I've promised myself I'm going to give it a lot more of my time.
Start small. Ireland is usually a safe bet to learn the game. You pretty much just have to dive right in while checking out wiki info on the game.

Here is what actually enabled me to play this game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMzAXqO ... x4&index=1" target="_blank

This guy has multiple of these "Guide for Newbies" videos (I think the first series, where he starts in Ireland and explains basically all underlying concepts, is 20(!) parts long). Be careful - one of the patches changed the conditions for creating duchies from owning 50% to 51% of all the included counties and the videos were made BEFORE the patch, but everything else I found incredibly useful.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:48 pm

jztemple2 wrote:
Kelric wrote:Someone with more knowledge than me should take this one
This is one of the way that CKII intimidates me, it's really deep and often there is no obvious way to know why something is happening. I have the latest DLC on my Steam wishlist and when it goes on sale and I finally pick it up, I've promised myself I'm going to give it a lot more of my time.

Damn forum effect

. I picked up the Sons of Abraham DLC (at least it was 10% off

), diving in right now.

I'm still not sure how to play as a republic. I might save that for the holiday break.

Doomboy · Post by **Doomboy** » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:38 pm

I don't know if you guys were aware of this mod, but the whole time I have been playing CK2 lately, I kept thinking, "wouldn't it be awesome if someone made a mod for it set in the world of the Elder Scrolls games?"

Someone did, and it is pretty far along.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/for ... -Kings-Mod

It makes a lot of changes which I don't understand fully (not that I understand the base game fully either). But it is something I am fiddling with and trying to play right now. I thought I would share.

Doomboy · Post by **Doomboy** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:31 am

I can't decide what to play as in the Elder Kings mod. I could go with something obvious like the Jarl of Whiterun and try to unite Skyrim under my banner. Or I could play that vampire lord guy, also in Skyrim. Or I could play the King of Daggerfall and dip my feet into the backstabbing politics over there.

Or I could be an imperial merchant family and see how much wealth I can amass.

I don't even want to think about how complicated things are over in Morrowind.

They even have some other places I have never seen in an Elder Scrolls game. I guess they are the equivalent of Japan and China.

I should probably just play a merchant family. I can't seem to get very far as a feudal lord. I always end up on the wrong side of some war and get killed. At least no one can wipe out my last holding as a merchant.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:37 pm

Got the new Rajas thing and a bunch of other dlc for like $.50 each. Plus I got the old gods one to play as Pagan, but man.......I sure did forget how to play. I remember sending people to other courts and pressing claims and trying breed out other cultures and junk, but I don't remember much of anything. Was there a posted tutorial or refresher that anyone can recommend?

-

So I redid the in game tutorials and got my feet wet again. I had a minor claim to press from some chick in my court. Went to war for 3 years. Finally won and expected her to be my vassal. Well, she wasn't. Wouldn't join me. I know for sure that I was pressing claims and getting them as vassals before. What did I do wrong?

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:30 am

It depends on how much they like you. One way around it is to give the claimant a landed title among the lands you already control and when you win the war for their claim it automatically comes under your control.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:30 am

Citizen wrote:So I redid the in game tutorials and got my feet wet again. I had a minor claim to press from some chick in my court. Went to war for 3 years. Finally won and expected her to be my vassal. Well, she wasn't. Wouldn't join me. I know for sure that I was pressing claims and getting them as vassals before. What did I do wrong?

This tends to be confusing at first because of the way in which rulership is set up in this period of history. You'll often have courtiers with various claims around the world. What you need to keep in mind is who the courtier would have as their liege lord if you were to press their claim for them. Let's say that you're playing as Ireland and decide to press a claim on a Scottish county on behalf of one of your courtiers. If you win the war and your courtier gains the county, he or she will now have to answer to the duke or duchess of that county, and to the king or queen above that. If you're neither that Duke or King, you're out of luck. Just because you press a claim on a Scottish county doesn't make the new count answerable to you, though it will make them like you.

This is why you should mostly just ignore these small claims unless they fit neatly into a larger puzzle you're attempting to piece together. Pressing someone else's claim can be a good thing for diplomatic reasons, but it's typically not a great way to expand your own territory.

Greybriar · Post by **Greybriar** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:22 am

Steam is running a special and Crusader Kings II is priced at $9.99, the Crusader Kings II Collection is $19.99, and the Crusader Kings II DLC Collection is $12.49 U.S.

Better hurry though. The offers end tomorrow, 28 March 2014.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:03 am

Pressing someone else's claim can be a good thing for diplomatic reasons, but it's typically not a great way to expand your own territory.

That was my main way. What expansion strategy do you use?

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:11 am

Citizen wrote:
Pressing someone else's claim can be a good thing for diplomatic reasons, but it's typically not a great way to expand your own territory.
That was my main way. What expansion strategy do you use?

I'd say there are generally 2 main paths to expansion:
1. Use your chancellor to create claims to territories on your border and slowly hoover up new lands
2. Declare war on other religions

Method 1 is slow, but is really your only option if you're surrounded by other kingdoms of your faith. 2 can give you lots of fast land, but can be a bit risky if you pick a fight with the wrong kingdom and he brings in others of his faith.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:41 am

Thanks guys. I'll try it!

I remember my last game back in 2012 or whatever....I had an affair with my aunt. She was one fiery vixen. We had a baby. A little bastard. She took the fruit of my loins and ran off to a new court. Oh...how I wanted them in my dungeon.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:22 pm

For dramatic expansions, try asking the pope for permission to invade another country. I did that against England when I played Ireland, which allowed me to take their entire country in one fell swoop. It can be tricky to pull off, but it's effective. I believe you must have fewer counties than whoever you're declaring an invasion against, and the pope obviously has to like you a lot more than your enemy.

For the most part, any expansion-focused strategy requires you to get as many personal claims as you can. Create forgeries when you can, and arrange marriages in such a way that you'll gain claims through the happy (?) couple's offspring. I've never had much success with the latter strategy, but forgeries are effective. You can also let your vassals take territories for you, though you risk letting them grow dangerously powerful this way. Not that you've got much to say about such things without angering other vassals or raising crown authority to extreme levels. Just make sure your vassals can't fight against each other, and they'll focus their attentions outwards sooner rather than later.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:30 pm

By the way, it seems the latest patch makes for some reasonably dramatic changes to certain aspects of the game. One thing I noticed in particular, was that children will no longer change their culture or religion due to their guardian, except if both the guardian and his employer are of the same culture/religion. This will open up a lot of new opportunities to train your children. It was always a bit frustrating to have great teachers in your court, but being unable to use them safely because of their culture or religion.

There's also diplomatic range now, which means you can no longer send your councilors on missions to the other side of the map. I don't know what the range is, but this might also make it harder to maintain a good relationship to the pope if you're too far away from Rome.

Citizen · Post by **Citizen** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:52 am

I felt like I had a really good handle on this, but I must have done something wrong..

I was playing the petty kingdom of Ireland. I had two counties. I found a man who had a strong claim on a southern county. This man (I am highly confident) was a dynasty member. I invited him to my court, married him to my daughter (in a matriarchal marriage or whatever they are called) and then I pressed his claim in war. I won the war and took the county, but then this guy isn't my vassal and he running the county independent of me. What did I do wrong?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:15 pm

Pressing a claim only results in the person being your vassal if you already have the specific title over that county (like, if you are Duke of [region that includes county X] and you press someone's claim for County X, then that person will be your vassal afterwards. I believe "petty kingdom" is a Duke-equivalent title (applicable to Ireland and Scandinavia), so that would suggest that the county was not within your De Jure Duke-dom (petty kingdom territory).

The marriage can't do anything to help the territory be a vassal afterwards; that will only impact inheritance.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:21 pm

I think that if the dude whose claim you're pressing is already your vassal, then he stays your vassal as the holder of the new county. I think. So if you press the claim of a regular courtier, then the resulting county should become an independent.

Note that this could be useful, because you could potentially use the "Offer Vassalization" diplomacy option to get the guy into your realm, but there's restrictions on when you can use that.

ChuckB · Post by **ChuckB** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:48 pm

Citizen wrote:I felt like I had a really good handle on this, but I must have done something wrong..

I was playing the petty kingdom of Ireland. I had two counties. I found a man who had a strong claim on a southern county. This man (I am highly confident) was a dynasty member. I invited him to my court, married him to my daughter (in a matriarchal marriage or whatever they are called) and then I pressed his claim in war. I won the war and took the county, but then this guy isn't my vassal and he running the county independent of me. What did I do wrong?

Hi,

I think either of these great YouTube videos should answer your question:

http://youtu.be/-aaVIX9WHS0
http://youtu.be/zaaqVTNfGGw

These videos were made based on an older version but the general concepts should still apply.

Hope this helps!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:03 am

Does anyone have any tips for acquiring / managing allies? It seems like the only way to get allies is to marry family members off - any other way? I (as King of Sweden) was in a war with Norway, and he kept bringing in uber allies - first Scotland, then Denmark (who was initially my ally, but declined my call to arms), then England...I think there was another too. Was the King of Norway just marrying off a steady stream of family members?

The other question is how to maintain allies so that they will more reliably answer a call to arms. I just acquired an alliance with the HRE. I know not to call them to arms too often, as that will make them like me less. But I'm not sure how to make them like me more...a gift for a large country is prohibitively expensive, so that's not an option. I guess more marriages? But I only have so many family members, unfortunately (and I suspect that my King being gay will limit the production of them to a degree).

Also, is there any way to press multiple claims in the same war? I have a variety of claims on Norway, both my own de jure claims and claims on behalf of a couple vassals. Would be a pain to go through another huge war with Norway for just one province...

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:16 pm

El Guapo wrote:Does anyone have any tips for acquiring / managing allies? It seems like the only way to get allies is to marry family members off - any other way? I (as King of Sweden) was in a war with Norway, and he kept bringing in uber allies - first Scotland, then Denmark (who was initially my ally, but declined my call to arms), then England...I think there was another too. Was the King of Norway just marrying off a steady stream of family members?

The only alliances worth a damn back in those times were the marriages. There's no real way around it. If you want a formal alliance with anyone, beyond simple friendship, you need to intermarry your two dynasties.

The other question is how to maintain allies so that they will more reliably answer a call to arms.

Do whatever you can to keep the leader of your allied nation/dutchy/county happy. That might not always be so easy, and can sometimes be outright possible. Diplomacy is a fickle thing in this game.

Also, is there any way to press multiple claims in the same war?

Yes and no. A war is always declared over a single person's claims. However, this means that if you personally have multiple claims against another ruler, you can press all of them at once while declaring war. You can't declare war on behalf of two different estranged brothers at once though, to pick one possible example of something that doesn't work. They'll have to get in line.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:22 pm

So, I can: (1) press all of my ruler's claims against Norway at the same time; or (2) press all of one claimant's (a vassal or courtier) against Norway at the same time, but not both? And can't press claims of two vassals at the same time?

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:49 pm

Correct, as far as I can recall.

Edit: Except I don't think you can press all claims for anyone other than you. I might be mistaken, though.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:24 pm

TiLT wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Does anyone have any tips for acquiring / managing allies? It seems like the only way to get allies is to marry family members off - any other way? I (as King of Sweden) was in a war with Norway, and he kept bringing in uber allies - first Scotland, then Denmark (who was initially my ally, but declined my call to arms), then England...I think there was another too. Was the King of Norway just marrying off a steady stream of family members?
The only alliances worth a damn back in those times were the marriages. There's no real way around it. If you want a formal alliance with anyone, beyond simple friendship, you need to intermarry your two dynasties.

I'm teaching the Hundred Years' War right now, so I chuckled a little at this (given that the verbal alliance between France and Scotland was more productive that the marriage ties between England and France). That does bring me to something about the game, however. If you overuse marriages, you do run the risk of getting claimants and pretenders to the throne. The AI does not seem to always be so proactive in pressing those through a surprise DoW, but it IS proactive about creating factions and conspiracies to press those claims.

In fact, my very successful game as the Latin Kingdom (Kingdom of Jerusalem) has been consistently plagued (like the historical Latin Kingdom) with constant claims by siblings, parents, uncles, and other relatives. My biggest mistake was to create the title of King of Syria to add to my title of King of Jerusalem. With the inheritance laws of the Latin Kingdom, these titles are split between male children (the Latin Kingdom also allows female-line inheritance). So, if I have two sons surviving when the monarch dies, the kingdom suddenly gets rift in half (forcing a civil war to reincorporate them). Unfortunately, I lack the crown authority to change the inheritance laws, so that will be a long-term problem to fix.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:44 pm

baelthazar wrote:
TiLT wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Does anyone have any tips for acquiring / managing allies? It seems like the only way to get allies is to marry family members off - any other way? I (as King of Sweden) was in a war with Norway, and he kept bringing in uber allies - first Scotland, then Denmark (who was initially my ally, but declined my call to arms), then England...I think there was another too. Was the King of Norway just marrying off a steady stream of family members?
The only alliances worth a damn back in those times were the marriages. There's no real way around it. If you want a formal alliance with anyone, beyond simple friendship, you need to intermarry your two dynasties.

I'm teaching the Hundred Years' War right now, so I chuckled a little at this (given that the verbal alliance between France and Scotland was more productive that the marriage ties between England and France). That does bring me to something about the game, however. If you overuse marriages, you do run the risk of getting claimants and pretenders to the throne. The AI does not seem to always be so proactive in pressing those through a surprise DoW, but it IS proactive about creating factions and conspiracies to press those claims.

In fact, my very successful game as the Latin Kingdom (Kingdom of Jerusalem) has been consistently plagued (like the historical Latin Kingdom) with constant claims by siblings, parents, uncles, and other relatives. My biggest mistake was to create the title of King of Syria to add to my title of King of Jerusalem. With the inheritance laws of the Latin Kingdom, these titles are split between male children (the Latin Kingdom also allows female-line inheritance). So, if I have two sons surviving when the monarch dies, the kingdom suddenly gets rift in half (forcing a civil war to reincorporate them). Unfortunately, I lack the crown authority to change the inheritance laws, so that will be a long-term problem to fix.

I'm King of Sweden at the moment (after starting out as a Norwegian county). Sweden is an Elective Monarchy so I don't have the same risk of pretenders, I think (though that does not stop factions from forming, though one faction was responsible for putting me on the throne so I can't complain too much). It's interesting as an elective monarchy because I feel like the throne is balanced on a knife's edge, though it's actually not as hard to manage as I would have expected (giving my heir a couple duchies and nominating him as my successor seems to be working well *so far*, and the relations benefit with my vassals is nice).

Once my current ruler has been in power for 10 years I should be able to switch to Ultimogeniture if I want (would need to get all Vassals into positive relations, but there are only a couple negative vassals right now so that should be doable). Primogeniture would be nice, but that would mean getting crown authority up to high (currently medium) and would mean an additional vassal relations penalty.

Trying to decide whether I should try to keep managing elective monarchy or switch to a geniture succession when possible.

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:18 pm

Got a question. I'm playing as the Petty King of Munster and I ave a demesne rating of 5. Now I have 8 Counties I could control. 3 of the counties form one duchy A, 2 form Duchy B, 2 form C and 1 is just part of a duchy I haven't taken control of yet.

Is there any benefit to me having all 3 of the counties that form A and 2 that form B under my personal demesne? I am already considered Duke of all 3 duchies. Do you get a bonus for being the Duke of Munster AND having the 3 counties that make up that duchy part of your demesne? Would it be better for me to just take the 5 counties that have the largest levies even though they are spread out across all 4 duchies?

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:44 pm

That's a question with a potentially very complicated answer. At it's most simple level, you're going to want to hold two duchies for yourself (IIRC, it's been a few months since I played last), and you want to make sure you control all the counties in those duchies. The reason you want to do this is because a count under a duke will want the duchy for himself, and will begin to resent the current duke. You don't want that duke to be you. For that reason, it's best to just isolate yourself from any such squabbles.

The best approach to dividing duchies and counties between yourself and your vassals is to do what I mentioned above, then make sure that you give the excess duchies to family members if possible. But here's the trick: The new duke doesn't have to actually own a county in that duchy in order to be duke there. You can really take advantage of this. Instead of having these counts direct their hate towards you, you make them hate the guy you gave the duchy to, and he will have few ways to deal with this problem. The more divided your vassals are, the less likely they are to be able to arrange powerful factions against you. Divide and conquer. Just make sure your vassals aren't allowed to fight each other, or you risk having large civil wars break out in your lands.

You technically don't get an advantage by keeping all the counties in your own duchies, but you do avoid some pretty serious disadvantages, and by being a little shrewd you can even turn the disadvantages to your own advantage.