Octopus Overlords

El Guapo wrote:Yeah, this looks good (and note that the good guys have a weakness in that their protector can't self-protect). There's always the option of giving Katya a berserker power or something if people think the wolves are underpowered, I suppose.

One question - if the wolves try to night kill Archer, what exactly is the village told? Are they told "the wolves tried to kill Sterling Archer and failed" or is the village told "the wolves tried to kill El Guapo, who is Sterling Archer, and failed"? Just wondering whether that proves the Archer player to the village (especially since Barry might not be able to spoof Archer in that scenario).

Hmmmm. I was imagining just telling the wolves that their target survived and informing the game (with suitable but unspecific flavor) that there was no night kill. The wolves won't know whether their target was Archer or someone protected by Lana.

If it's a day lynch, the village will be informed that the victim survived, but they won't know if it's Archer or Barry. This puts pressure on both of them to come out as Archer.

Does that logic hold up? It leaves the villagers with less certain info.

Holman wrote:

El Guapo wrote:Yeah, this looks good (and note that the good guys have a weakness in that their protector can't self-protect). There's always the option of giving Katya a berserker power or something if people think the wolves are underpowered, I suppose.

One question - if the wolves try to night kill Archer, what exactly is the village told? Are they told "the wolves tried to kill Sterling Archer and failed" or is the village told "the wolves tried to kill El Guapo, who is Sterling Archer, and failed"? Just wondering whether that proves the Archer player to the village (especially since Barry might not be able to spoof Archer in that scenario).

Hmmmm. I was imagining just telling the wolves that their target survived and informing the game (with suitable but unspecific flaor) that there was no night kill. The wolves won't know whether their target was Archer or someone protected by Lana.

If it's a day lynch, the village will be informed that the victim survived, but they won't know if it's Archer or Barry. This puts pressure on both of them to come out as Archer.

Does that logic hold up? If leaves the villagers with less certain info.

Yeah, that makes sense, and is probably the best way to do it. I just wasn't sure what you meant by "the players are told that you survived."

Holman wrote:Hmmmm. I was imagining just telling the wolves that their target survived and informing the game (with suitable but unspecific flaor) that there was no night kill. The wolves won't know whether their target was Archer or someone protected by Lana.

The wolves wouldn't really care all that much - Lana can't protect the same person twice and Archer dies on the second try - either way they know they have a guaranteed kill the next night.

stessier wrote:

Holman wrote:Hmmmm. I was imagining just telling the wolves that their target survived and informing the game (with suitable but unspecific flaor) that there was no night kill. The wolves won't know whether their target was Archer or someone protected by Lana.

The wolves wouldn't really care all that much - Lana can't protect the same person twice and Archer dies on the second try - either way they know they have a guaranteed kill the next night.

They wouldn't have a guaranteed kill, though, because as long as Lana didn't protect Archer on the first kill attempt, then she can protect him the night after Archer protects himself.

stessier wrote:

Holman wrote:Hmmmm. I was imagining just telling the wolves that their target survived and informing the game (with suitable but unspecific flaor) that there was no night kill. The wolves won't know whether their target was Archer or someone protected by Lana.

The wolves wouldn't really care all that much - Lana can't protect the same person twice and Archer dies on the second try - either way they know they have a guaranteed kill the next night.

But the kill is wasted, and (if there has been some suspicion of whom the wolves are targeting) Lana can protect him the following night. That's two wasted kills while the villagers work lynches in between them.

What if we aimed for a 12-person game with the powers as listed in "Take 3" above and with all 3 wolves? Or should I instead limit it to 10 players with 2 wolves (no Conway)?

Right now I see

Good - Archer, Lana, Malory, Pam, and Cheyrl

On a 10 person game, all those come out on the first day leaves 3 Villagers and 2 Wolves. The Villagers are guaranteed a win. You need fewer good powers.

Glad to see the nuts and bolts squad go their hands on it. Will echo what stessier justposted....what's to prevent everyone from revealing who they are on day 1? Really messes up team evil and puts the good guys in a sweet spot.

stessier wrote:Right now I see

Good - Archer, Lana, Malory, Pam, and Cheyrl

On a 10 person game, all those come out on the first day leaves 3 Villagers and 2 Wolves. The Villagers are guaranteed a win. You need fewer good powers.

Why doesn't everyone come out on day 1 in other games?

Pam's power is just a one-time info dump, giving that player something interesting to try to pick up on and use as the game proceeds. (She has knowledge of two random players' alignments, but only after she eliminates which one is incorrect.)

Cheryl's "power" is really a wolf power--her death grants the wolves bonus info.

Wolves could claim Cheryl or Pam, and there's no test for them.

----------------------

How about this for a revision?

Katya Kazanova --
Beautiful cyborg. Once per game (if you are alive), you may declare that the night assassination bypasses all protection. Your death (with Lana's) ignites Archer's Rampage power.

Holman wrote:

stessier wrote:Right now I see

Good - Archer, Lana, Malory, Pam, and Cheyrl

On a 10 person game, all those come out on the first day leaves 3 Villagers and 2 Wolves. The Villagers are guaranteed a win. You need fewer good powers.

Why doesn't everyone come out on day 1 in other games?

Because there are enough other places for the wolves to hide that doing so hurts the village more than it helps.

It doesn't matter what the power is, the fact that five people can step forward and claim a role forces the wolf to either claim a role (meaning their pool just shrunk to two - The Claimer and The Claimee) or not claim a role and stick in the Villager pool. In this game, you can lynch everyone in the Villager/Wolf pool (5 people) before the Wolves can kill enough people to win - and that doesn't even take into account any Good guy using one of their powers.

Does it get better if I simply eliminate Pam's power and make her a regular villager?

Then you have the following Good specials (this is version 4 on the roleset):

--Archer: survives one death (but looks suspiciously like Barry if it's a lynch), gets a one-shot kill but only under particular late-game circumstances.
--Lana: a protector who can't protect herself.
--Mallory: the seer.
--Cheryl: a villager whose death helps the wolves, so she's no good as a shield for the specials. (I could change her "power" to identify a random *living* ISIS player if that helps.)

And the following Wolves:

--Barry: survives one lynch and can plausibly claim Archer after doing so, putting off his own death for a day or more.
--Katja: gets one night kill that bypasses Lana's protection.

I'm thinking a 10-person game (8 ISIS, 2 assassins), but I'll take math advice to improve that.

Just a note that I'll have limited internet access from Saturday morning until Monday evening. I certainly welcome any feedback on these rules.

I'm happy to see folks' interest, and I'm sorry to have kept you waiting!

I would be ready to start this game if folks are still interested.

Quick math check: does a game with 8 villagers and 2 wolves make sense? 9 villagers and 2 wolves? 10 and 3 wolves? What should be the goal?

Sounds good. I would just open it up to a minimum of 10 and a max of 12 and see how many people sign up. My understanding is that you do 8 and 2 with 10 and 9 and 3 with 12, but other people know more about game balance than me.

Holman wrote:I would be ready to start this game if folks are still interested.

Quick math check: does a game with 8 villagers and 2 wolves make sense? 9 villagers and 2 wolves? 10 and 3 wolves? What should be the goal?

stessier wrote: The rule of thumb is 0.2 - 0.25 wolves per total population. So for 8-10 total players, 2 wolves is best. More wolves will decrease the chance the Villagers will win.

This

--- OK, This thread is now closed. ---

The game is here.

I didn't want to mess up your other thread, but giving people unique IDs is okay as long as they don't reveal them. Otherwise a good guy could come forward and say "I am X" and the Bad Guys have to decide whether or not to counter the mere existence of a player. That is why Good Guys are usually Powered and Villagers - the generic Villager gives the wolves a place/role to hide/claim.

stessier wrote:I didn't want to mess up your other thread, but giving people unique IDs is okay as long as they don't reveal them. Otherwise a good guy could come forward and say "I am X" and the Bad Guys have to decide whether or not to counter the mere existence of a player. That is why Good Guys are usually Powered and Villagers - the generic Villager gives the wolves a place/role to hide/claim.

That's something I never would thought of! Thanks.

I'll make a note in the rules.

I don't want to interrupt your game but...

One of you almost certainly gave away his bad guy role and it was an excellent giveaway. I applaud it. That, or if I were playing I'd be lynched for not shutting up about it.

7 pages in, and I'm disappointed at the lack of creative insults. And more specifically the lack of expected insults and self incriminations. I mean seven pages and not one response to eat a bag of dicks to an accusal? Come on now.

I will now stop but I will not apologize!

LordMortis wrote:I don't want to interrupt your game but...

One of you almost certainly gave away his bad guy role and it was an excellent giveaway. I applaud it. That, or if I were playing I'd be lynched for not shutting up about it.

7 pages in, and I'm disappointed at the lack of creative insults. And more specifically the lack of expected insults and self incriminations. I mean seven pages and not one response to eat a bag of dicks to an accusal? Come on now.

I will now stop but I will not apologize!

Eat a bag of dicks.

bb2112 wrote:Eat a bag of dicks.

https://youtu.be/12WCGaxI-lA?t=3