Octopus Overlords

theohall wrote:I just realized not one single special died, except me. Grrrr......

Had Kelric stepped forward after Isgrimnur's self-vote which cleared him, the game would have been over in a hurry. He names his only 3 unknowns - me, tru1cy (Female Heroine), and Semaj (Prom Queen). Those two each announce their specialness and I would have been completely screwed, instead of the slow questioning screw which happened.

I could have kept the game alive with a secret vote on Isgrimnur had it been placed before his self-vote. That's the one tool which never got used.

Tru1cy had no way to know what he was so he wouldn't have been stepping forward. Also, groups of "knowns" were useless since they could be (and were) from different couples. You needed to kill Grund and Chaosraven/Kelric to win regardless of who was known or unknown. There was no way for Kelric to know how many folks were still coupled and putting names out there that were in couples as knowns would just raised the odds of their being killed.

Why do you (theohall) keep saying that Isgrimnur cleared himself?

A self-vote putting him at n-1 is not something I would expect the Killer to do. All it would take is one quick vote after that and he's killed himself.

theohall wrote:A self-vote putting him at n-1 is not something I would expect the Killer to do. All it would take is one quick vote after that and he's killed himself.

But instead, he was totally cleared... making it, very much, a move that I would look at with suspicion.

Remus West wrote:

theohall wrote:I just realized not one single special died, except me. Grrrr......

Had Kelric stepped forward after Isgrimnur's self-vote which cleared him, the game would have been over in a hurry. He names his only 3 unknowns - me, tru1cy (Female Heroine), and Semaj (Prom Queen). Those two each announce their specialness and I would have been completely screwed, instead of the slow questioning screw which happened.

I could have kept the game alive with a secret vote on Isgrimnur had it been placed before his self-vote. That's the one tool which never got used.

Tru1cy had no way to know what he was so he wouldn't have been stepping forward. Also, groups of "knowns" were useless since they could be (and were) from different couples. You needed to kill Grund and Chaosraven/Kelric to win regardless of who was known or unknown. There was no way for Kelric to know how many folks were still coupled and putting names out there that were in couples as knowns would just raised the odds of their being killed.

But the students goal was still the same - find the wolf among the villagers.

Let's take all other things (Theohall's queen claim to his mason partner) out.

Kelric had 3 living players that he knew were not the killer.

To expose their names doesn't give the Killer anything he doesn't already know. And it doesn't Hurt or Help us, in our attempt to keep couple's allive - it just simply helps focus the lynch.

Right?

I see that the wolf had a different goal this game, but that didn't really change our goal. (yes, we had some landmines, but a list of good players wouldn't make them more or less likely to go off)

The only thing we should have all done - in regard to 'the couple' problem was

Instead of lynching the guy that suggested this - actually doing this:

Grundbegriff wrote:

Unagi wrote:I suppose there is room to put out a generic request (mind you, absolutely NOT asked of Remus or anyone specific) that if a normal powerless student is without a partner - perhaps they should step up and tell us that it's OK to lynch them off. I don't think this is something we should do each day, mind you, but in the early game - giving the king time to scan, and the heroine time to monkey-wrench a night kill - that becomes a real gain for us.


thoughts on that?

That's actually a good idea.

 Unagi 
 

However, we would have shot the virgin, tru1cy, - and thwarted that missed double kill.... so - funny how these things work out.

Unagi wrote:Instead of lynching the guy that suggested this - actually doing this:

Grundbegriff wrote:

Unagi wrote:I suppose there is room to put out a generic request (mind you, absolutely NOT asked of Remus or anyone specific) that if a normal powerless student is without a partner - perhaps they should step up and tell us that it's OK to lynch them off. I don't think this is something we should do each day, mind you, but in the early game - giving the king time to scan, and the heroine time to monkey-wrench a night kill - that becomes a real gain for us.


thoughts on that?

While I did not agree with lynching you neither do I agree that this is a good idea. As I noted in the JLA game when I was Superman and could not be lynched. Essentially what you are saying is "let's take a pass on our turn and hand control back over to the other side". I'd rather take a shot I have control over then intentionally miss.

Unagi wrote:Instead of lynching the guy that suggested this - actually doing this:

Grundbegriff wrote:

Unagi wrote:I suppose there is room to put out a generic request (mind you, absolutely NOT asked of Remus or anyone specific) that if a normal powerless student is without a partner - perhaps they should step up and tell us that it's OK to lynch them off. I don't think this is something we should do each day, mind you, but in the early game - giving the king time to scan, and the heroine time to monkey-wrench a night kill - that becomes a real gain for us.


thoughts on that?

That's actually a good idea.

 Unagi 
 

No amount of retrospection will ever turn that terrible, victory-avoiding idea into a good idea.

So, here is my take. The "kill off the couples" nature of this game is at the heart.

In a normal wolf game, a missed lynch is like all deaths, one step closer to the end.

There were 6 couples - so there were 6 kills needed. That could be split between Night and Day kills.

Early in the game, the chance of breaking up a couple is 100%. The Killer's first kill. (Let's just say he didn't kill his date)
First Day, we are all then given a 9% chance to catch the killer / a 9% chance of making a safe miss / and an 82% chance of getting us down to 4 couples.

If we kill the date-less, the Killer is forced into a situation where he couldn't make a double kill - but again - has a 100% to break up a couple.

Day 2 would find us with 4 couples, and a single.

Where, we started it with 3 couples +3 single.... That night, our Killer was looking at 2 couples, and 4 singles...

My original thought was to do it for just the 1 day, while we tried to get a feel for people.

I'm half tempted to argue that we would announce that we'd ask the single to step up again (on Day 2).

I know this lets the Killer find a couple each night with great ease - but it actually moves us forward with the most time left, to find the killer.

At some point, I think the tactic breaks down - as you can't just let the killer hide that way... but you've given the king some time to clear some people.


With super-man, the numbers (X wolves vs Y villagers) are what we've all come to define as a normal game.
A skipped death will buy you about "half a turn"....
The fact that we could "keep all couples intact", I am saying, is even a more worth while gain... it's a complete turn.

I'm not saying it was critical, or even important, to start the game that way - but I do think it was technically the 'wiser' way to approach the first day. (Normally, I agree with "not skipping our turn" to find the killer)

What I was sorta actually hoping was that we could have a) caught the killer because he had killed his partner, and we'd have maybe forced him out and then even more: b) We could all say that we were also going to do that same thing the very next day - but then, on that next day, - when the next 'single' came out for their lynching, we would collectively point out that this player is very likely not the killer - and redouble our search from those that remained.

stessier wrote:I thought it was from among the accusers as well. Can we get a post game clarification?

In an earlier revision of the rulez it was the person with the 2nd more votes when voting closed but pulled that to allow the accused to select anyone.

Ok, I feel like this was a successful rulez set however I got the feeling that the rulez prevent people from taking chances and that they felt locked in to a set strategy. I have always felt a good rulez set gives the players multiple good and competing strategies and they this competition drives the game.

I love the couple idea and giving the wolf a different kind of victory condition however I didn't find the couples were really working together much and I want that to change.

I want to force the couples to have to trust each in some type of meaningful way while still knowing that could be dancing with wolf/slashy.

Any ideas? The floor is open and we can change the theme if needed to bring in a new rulez.

I would say either make a vote from a partner not count (Sorry, Unagi) or give a night vote for one player to have a scan of their partner. Make the party pick who they think is trustworthy enough to check their partner.

Isgrimnur wrote:give a night vote for one player to have a scan of their partner. Make the party pick who they think is trustworthy enough to check their partner.

Interesting!!

Couple (or singles) vote each night for a student they would like to be scanned. Couple (or singles) may not vote for themselves. Couples vote together and count for one vote. The person with the majority of votes is scanned and the Prom King receives the results from the moderator secretly. In the event of a tie, random.org will choose the scannee from the tied vote getters. If the Prom King is dead, no one receives the scan results. Voting however will continue.

IN a game where you cant trust anyone, trusting your partner is kinda difficult.

i thought the game was overall pretty interesting and fun, despite my seeming lack of particpation (and i do feel I was a bit awol for my brief time in the game), though I was reading and following, I wasnt posting.

i really did like the idea and how it was implemented. I think there could be a few more tweaks in the set like we discussed prior. (ie the two killers)

I also thought that Theo did a remarkable job as teh killer. I think probably the only mistake he did do was claiming to be queen to Grund. But overall i think he did a great job escaping detection for how long he did.

thanks Scoop for hosting.

Newcastle wrote: (ie the two killers)

Hmmmm, like Freddy versus Jason?

Newcastle wrote:thanks Scoop for hosting.

Thank you. I really enjoy running these games.

Semaj was my partner, I had him pegged as the queen when we were waiting sooooo long for the execution. It came down to Grund or theohall when I decided who would shoot me. Theohall was the winner because I couldn't get over how well he was paying attention this game, too well. I asked semaj in our forum if he was the queen and if so please please rig the gun...so this could have ended days ago but alas, still a victory for the students, I just will not be there for the victory orgy.

Lassr wrote:Semaj was my partner, I had him pegged as the queen when we were waiting sooooo long for the execution. It came down to Grund or theohall when I decided who would shoot me. Theohall was the winner because I couldn't get over how well he was paying attention this game, too well. I asked semaj in our forum if he was the queen and if so please please rig the gun...so this could have ended days ago but alas, still a victory for the students, I just will not be there for the victory orgy.

Chaosraven will though so this is really a win/win for you.

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:Semaj was my partner, I had him pegged as the queen when we were waiting sooooo long for the execution. It came down to Grund or theohall when I decided who would shoot me. Theohall was the winner because I couldn't get over how well he was paying attention this game, too well. I asked semaj in our forum if he was the queen and if so please please rig the gun...so this could have ended days ago but alas, still a victory for the students, I just will not be there for the victory orgy.

Chaosraven will though so this is really a win/win for you.

Nuthin' says we can't just dig Lassr up to join the orgy.

Good thing my corpse would be too far long for your taste.

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:Semaj was my partner, I had him pegged as the queen when we were waiting sooooo long for the execution. It came down to Grund or theohall when I decided who would shoot me. Theohall was the winner because I couldn't get over how well he was paying attention this game, too well. I asked semaj in our forum if he was the queen and if so please please rig the gun...so this could have ended days ago but alas, still a victory for the students, I just will not be there for the victory orgy.

Chaosraven will though so this is really a win/win for you.

Are you saying I have an ugly date?

Kelric wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:Semaj was my partner, I had him pegged as the queen when we were waiting sooooo long for the execution. It came down to Grund or theohall when I decided who would shoot me. Theohall was the winner because I couldn't get over how well he was paying attention this game, too well. I asked semaj in our forum if he was the queen and if so please please rig the gun...so this could have ended days ago but alas, still a victory for the students, I just will not be there for the victory orgy.

Chaosraven will though so this is really a win/win for you.

Are you saying I have an diseased date?

Yes.

"an diseased"? Really? Aren't you a teacher?

Isgrimnur wrote:"an diseased"? Really? Aren't you a teacher?

Math. Now shut up and do your work.

Remus West wrote:

Kelric wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:Semaj was my partner, I had him pegged as the queen when we were waiting sooooo long for the execution. It came down to Grund or theohall when I decided who would shoot me. Theohall was the winner because I couldn't get over how well he was paying attention this game, too well. I asked semaj in our forum if he was the queen and if so please please rig the gun...so this could have ended days ago but alas, still a victory for the students, I just will not be there for the victory orgy.

Chaosraven will though so this is really a win/win for you.

Are you saying I have an diseased date?

Yes.

Oh, okay. I just wanted to clarify.

I didn't want to come out because for most of the end game I would only have cleared half the field. Those didn't seem like great odds to me.

Kelric wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Kelric wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Lassr wrote:Semaj was my partner, I had him pegged as the queen when we were waiting sooooo long for the execution. It came down to Grund or theohall when I decided who would shoot me. Theohall was the winner because I couldn't get over how well he was paying attention this game, too well. I asked semaj in our forum if he was the queen and if so please please rig the gun...so this could have ended days ago but alas, still a victory for the students, I just will not be there for the victory orgy.

Chaosraven will though so this is really a win/win for you.

Are you saying I have an diseased date?

Yes.

Oh, okay. I just wanted to clarify.

I didn't want to come out because for most of the end game I would only have cleared half the field. Those didn't seem like great odds to me.

As long as your partner was alive there was no reason to come forward unless you had the killer. You had your own personal back-up drive in Chaosraven who could have shared with us in the event of your death.

Kelric, just for you:

Former Prom King Now Living Anonymously Among Commoners