WWL: Chapter 1 - Friday [day] - Stessier: the final siesta

[stessier]

Oddly... I meant less about tru1cy and more about you that whole ficasso. If you were the wolf and let me, who I said I would kill repeatedly and Lassr, who I had said I would have a hard time believing he was a wolf...live over tru1cy. I would probably have voted for Lassr on principle, which he himself would agree with, since he did it with grund.

However with the outting of Tru1cy, it became a moot point since in my eyes the wolves _had_ to kill tru1cy last night.

Interesting. Why did the wolf have to kill tru1cy? tru1cy said he was willing to test you. If I were the wolf, I like my odds bringing him and you into the last day. Lassr could feel the same way.

And I'm not buying your spin. To set up your "test", you had to suspect the same person each day and find someone else innocent. That necessarily means a) you planned this from the beginning and b) you weren't looking for wolves. Not to mention the fact that long range planning is not the hallmark of Villagers. Funny that it was for you - especially when you are so known for getting yourself lynched.

You think it's me, but it can't be lassr? Interesting.

It has to be one or the other and after what I found, yes - you are the wolf.

So if you are the wolf and steadfast in your voting of me, lassr wins. If it's lassr as the other villager we should win this game eventually.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here, but yes...if Lassr votes for you, we Villagers will win.

[stessier]

But here is the stessier bit I wondered about:

So right now...going back through the players list...this is where i am standing, a bit more expanded.

Remus - WOLF
Grund - most likely the partner wolf (around 90% sure, could still be wrong, but i am highly doubtful)

Dude, are you the Seer or not? Grund is claiming Seer and you are claiming Seer. How can you be only 90% sure on this one? Kelric much?

Wolfy Grund doesn't claim Seer.
But Grund did claim Seer.
Newcastle also claims Seer - but is only 90% sure Grund is bad.

Yeah
 Newcastle 
 


Who are your scans Grund?

You then hop on the Newcastle Train, which is , in order: Grund, Remus and then you... before letting this play out. Either you didnt fear a wolf jumping on the pile (which you should) or you were trying to get a train finished. This is when I stopped saying you might be evil and started saying I like my pick. Because Grund then realises Newcastle is about to die, and since he is faking seer, he drops the train, leaving you and Remus to either drop off or completely show wolf levels.

So if you wonder when and why I decided I liked you as a wolf, thats it.

Feel free to explain the method to your madness there.

What madness are you referring to?

Newcastle claimed Seer and gave us his scans. Grund claimed Seer. Newcastle had already given us his scans so we knew Remus was a wolf.

Newcastle was only 90% sure Grund was bad. Really? The guy is claiming your Seer role. What possible reason is he not 100% sure he is a wolf at that point? Did he know that lynching Grund would show human and he wanted to leave himself wiggle room? A Seer doesn't equivocate! Why wouldn't you vote for Newcastle?

And no, I didn't care if a wolf jumped on. Newcastle was a wolf - those are the ones we are looking to get rid of!

[stessier]

No i get the concept... but how is grund a worse scan target? Newcastle says I have a wolf... He doesnt say who, it was his game of chicken to see if he could get both instead of just one, I knew what he was doing and I assume most did. If your a wolf and you make this call, you already have your scan targets picked out. Which is why I wasn't to keen to get on Newcastle. I wasnt sure what the nonsense was, but Newcastle felt more genuine in what he was doing. newcaslte had either been setting this up for a while and was a wolf (Which I would be happy with) or Grund was faking. As such, the easiest test wasnt the guy claiming seer, it's the guy he claims is a wolf.

Except that's not how it happened. Grund didn't drop the bomb until after Newcastle declared his scans. So at that point, you have Newcastle with scans and someone counterclaiming.

Q: Why did you assume Newcastle was the one?
A: Because you knew he had correctly claimed Remus as a wolf.

[stessier]

I think the choice is more of a philosophical debate at this point, i'm trying to do the endgame math on it on whether it matters.

What grund says matters... but I look at it more from a math prespective.

Newcaslte says he has a wolf, Grund claims seer.

Say Newcastle is not faking:
Test Newcastles wolf, we get a wolf, then we deal with grund.

Say newcaslte is faking. Grund lists 2 people.. possible suspects.
We have 2 misses...At least i think we did.
Newcastles test subject... Then Newcastle.
Then... hrm... how do you test grund? With 2 misses you might be screwed...

OK... I see why you might have to test one of the seers with only 2 misses. At which point it boils down to who is more trust-able, etc.

Hrm... That would be a wild gambit for 2 wolves to pull with 2 misses remaining.

But if they test a seer first, they lose. Interesting math.

We get more information from testing Newcastle - specifically if he's human, then Remus is a wolf and Grund must be lying. If a wolf, then - Yippee and we turn to Grund/Remus knowing that both can't be wolves. Testing Remus tells us nothing about Newcastle or Grund, but does cause us the most confusion.

But then you already knew that.

[Lassr]

Newcastle was only 90% sure Grund was bad. Really? The guy is claiming your Seer role. What possible reason is he not 100% sure he is a wolf at that point? Did he know that lynching Grund would show human and he wanted to leave himself wiggle room? A Seer doesn't equivocate! Why wouldn't you vote for Newcastle?

And no, I didn't care if a wolf jumped on. Newcastle was a wolf - those are the ones we are looking to get rid of!

Maybe he, like me, figured Grund was faking. If Grund had really been a wolf then he would have just signed the death warranty for his team by faking if we chose the right path of lynching. So I was only 10% in the Grund is a wolf category. The other 90% would be he is faking to test Newcastle or he was really the seer.

[Lassr]

So if you are the wolf and steadfast in your voting of me, lassr wins. If it's lassr as the other villager we should win this game eventually.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here, but yes...if Lassr votes for you, we Villagers will win.

I've been trying to decipher this also. It seems there is a path for me alone to win if you vote semaj and you are a wolf. Interesting...I don't remember that in the rules.

[Semaj]

But if they test a seer first, they lose. Interesting math.

Oddly, you are going to harp on that when I am just trying to figure out if two wolves doing that would ever be a good play? In a hypothetical game with 2 misses left?

Heh... Funny.

Ok Lets get on to the quotefest known as Stessiers posts.

Oddly... I meant less about tru1cy and more about you that whole ficasso. If you were the wolf and let me, who I said I would kill repeatedly and Lassr, who I had said I would have a hard time believing he was a wolf...live over tru1cy. I would probably have voted for Lassr on principle, which he himself would agree with, since he did it with grund.

However with the outting of Tru1cy, it became a moot point since in my eyes the wolves _had_ to kill tru1cy last night.

Interesting. Why did the wolf have to kill tru1cy? tru1cy said he was willing to test you. If I were the wolf, I like my odds bringing him and you into the last day. Lassr could feel the same way.

Now lets look at this from a wolves prospective, which wont be hard for one of you, early guess is Stessier.

Tru1cy Has 2 people announce he is as innocent as they come.

You have the death of Grund. Now You have 3 Options for night kills.

1) Yourself, seems kinda silly.
2) Me - I know I am a villager, but Grund did such a phenomenal job of making me look wolfish yesterday, I am the person most likely to get lynched and lose the game for the villagers. So Clearly I have to stick around.
2) Tru1cy - who is willing to test Semaj, but also considered a actual innocent by most.
3) The other person who isn't a wolf, either Stessier or Lassr.

Say I died last night
If Lassr is the Villager, He isn't voting for Tru1cy and Since I must be dead in this scenario, Odds are Stessier dies and the Wolves lose.
If Stessier is the Villager, he has Said he wont be voting Tr1ucy, so Odds are it would boil down to convincing tru1cy that Lassr is evil or the Villagers lose. Stessier wont be voting for tru1cy. So Lassr has 1 shot.

Say I don't die and they keep tru1cy alive.
Stessier or Lassr kill the other one (Of the Stessier/Lassr mix), leaving me, Stessier/Lassr and tru1cy: Clearly I wouldn't be voting for Tru1cy. It would be me vs the other guy who would of course have to go full bore into me.

With the Alignment we have right now. 1 person, and only 1 person (alive anyways) knows who really is the wolf. The two Villagers very much could vote for the other Villager. As such, this alignment gives the wolves the best chance at a V.

So yes, I like my belief Tru1cy dying was the smart play by the wolf. Since this alignment at least leaves the option of one of two Villagers making a mistake, not requiring the one to do it.

Argue what you want about why he didn't have to die. But Not seeing this as the best chance for a wolf victory is either you in denial or trying not to come up too wolfy.

And I'm not buying your spin. To set up your "test", you had to suspect the same person each day and find someone else innocent. That necessarily means a) you planned this from the beginning and b) you weren't looking for wolves. Not to mention the fact that long range planning is not the hallmark of Villagers. Funny that it was for you - especially when you are so known for getting yourself lynched.

You think it's me, but it can't be lassr? Interesting.

It could be Lassr. Its why I wont be putting out a vote until we have some chat time, and by we I mean, you me and Lassr. Nah... I had you on my possibly evil list with Tru1cy and Newcastle earlier on. Newcastle was seer and felt off. Tru1cy was on my shit list for voting last day 2 and You were there because you were not on my radar, which is never a good sign. Obviously my list changed... When Newcastle came out and more or less exonerated Tru1cy... At that point I stopped changing it tho. I figured the Seer would die that night, we'd have to deal with grund yesterday and then my only wonder was who would die last night. So I decided to keep going at you and see if it meant any changes in who died. Once tru1cy was cleared by you and grund, I realized it wasn't going to help me at all.

I mean I can re-say it 2 or 3 more times, but I'll be cutting and pasting.

It has to be one or the other and after what I found, yes - you are the wolf.

I think someone once said: What, it can't be Lassr?

So if you are the wolf and steadfast in your voting of me, lassr wins. If it's lassr as the other villager we should win this game eventually.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here, but yes...if Lassr votes for you, we Villagers will win.

heh... yeah I guess I should spend years analyzing every word I write, but I'm not a wolf so I dont pay attention until about 2 posts later. But if you want, feel free to keep harping on it.

Feel free to explain the method to your madness there.

What madness are you referring to?

Newcastle claimed Seer and gave us his scans. Grund claimed Seer. Newcastle had already given us his scans so we knew Remus was a wolf.

No we did not. We knew Newcastle said he was a wolf. We also knew someone else had claimed seer.

Newcastle was only 90% sure Grund was bad. Really? The guy is claiming your Seer role. What possible reason is he not 100% sure he is a wolf at that point? Did he know that lynching Grund would show human and he wanted to leave himself wiggle room? A Seer doesn't equivocate! Why wouldn't you vote for Newcastle?

He was right, grund wasn't a wolf. Oddly, Newcastle knew Grund wasn't a seer, but he wasn't positive Grund was a wolf. You are stretching to find a reason to get him. I didn't vote Newcastle because I wanted to hear what Grund had to say, I wanted to test Remus to prove Newcaslte based on the fact I thought Newcastle seemed more Genuine.

However, I sure as hell was not going to throw the n-1 vote on the guy claiming to be a seer who claimed to have found a wolf before hearing everything out. And thats where I see a problem. Either You wanted the seer dead or didn't want to listen to any more chatting. Neither one seems right. The Villagers should want to hear all the facts before jumping into a lynch, no? Wolves want to get the lynch over and done with with as little information as possible transfering.

And no, I didn't care if a wolf jumped on. Newcastle was a wolf - those are the ones we are looking to get rid of!

No, he wasnt a wolf and neither was grund. The only person that was a wolf, was the guy Newcaslte said was a wolf. The one you essentially sided with in this. But rather than debate the plausibility of this, you tried to get him killed before anything else could happen.

As for the whole testing the seer over his charges thing.

Lets look at this from my perspective:

Newcastle was the seer. He said so. Grund argued he was the seer. Newcastle said he wasn't positive grund was a wolf, because he hadn't scanned him, but he was fairly certain because Grund was faking seer.

So... The argument is, if you kill the seer now, you in theory haven't just wasted a miss, o no, you have confirmed either Newcaslte was the seer or faking seer. Grund and Newcastle are not on the hook so be it.

Killing Remus netted us a wolf. Why? The seer said so.

So in a game when I am seer and I say: Hey I got a wolf and a Villager! the test is to kill me, not the wolf?

Can you see why I was bamboozled by this concept? Now if Grund had come out with a wolf and a villager, we have real issues. And then Maybe testing newcaslte might be a viable pursuit. But Grund hadn't. He had done no such thing at that point, if anything he seemed to be wavering in his seer claim.

So you feel free to explain to me how this tidbit of information, of which none had occured yet, makes you seem less wolfy.

While were at it, how is it your positive I am the wolf, but have no intention of commenting on Lassr?

Is he not playing? DId a seer clear him? Or are you playing with the knowledge with the crapshoot between us three, your best chance of winning is turning Lassr on me?

You aint seeming to Human right now.

[stessier]

Newcastle was only 90% sure Grund was bad. Really? The guy is claiming your Seer role. What possible reason is he not 100% sure he is a wolf at that point? Did he know that lynching Grund would show human and he wanted to leave himself wiggle room? A Seer doesn't equivocate! Why wouldn't you vote for Newcastle?

And no, I didn't care if a wolf jumped on. Newcastle was a wolf - those are the ones we are looking to get rid of!

Maybe he, like me, figured Grund was faking. If Grund had really been a wolf then he would have just signed the death warranty for his team by faking if we chose the right path of lynching. So I was only 10% in the Grund is a wolf category. The other 90% would be he is faking to test Newcastle or he was really the seer.

Go back and re-read that section. Newcastle had spent the whole day calling Grund a wolf. Newcastle came out and gave us his scans. Grund went *BOOM*. Newcastle did the dance of joy because he knew Grund was faking and we had two wolves! He challenges Grund for scans and bread crumbs. He gives his own and taunts Remus that Grund is slow in checking back in. Then Newcastle gives the 90% quote.

At no point before the 90% did he have any doubt about what Grund was. Why the change? It made no sense (still doesn't quite honestly - even with Newcastle's explanation of always having some doubt).

That's what I saw and that's why I voted.

[stessier]

I think I broke this up correctly.

But if they test a seer first, they lose. Interesting math.

Oddly, you are going to harp on that when I am just trying to figure out if two wolves doing that would ever be a good play? In a hypothetical game with 2 misses left?

Heh... Funny.

Ok Lets get on to the quotefest known as Stessiers posts.

Oddly... I meant less about tru1cy and more about you that whole ficasso. If you were the wolf and let me, who I said I would kill repeatedly and Lassr, who I had said I would have a hard time believing he was a wolf...live over tru1cy. I would probably have voted for Lassr on principle, which he himself would agree with, since he did it with grund.

However with the outting of Tru1cy, it became a moot point since in my eyes the wolves _had_ to kill tru1cy last night.

Interesting. Why did the wolf have to kill tru1cy? tru1cy said he was willing to test you. If I were the wolf, I like my odds bringing him and you into the last day. Lassr could feel the same way.

Now lets look at this from a wolves prospective, which wont be hard for one of you, early guess is Stessier.

Tru1cy Has 2 people announce he is as innocent as they come.

You have the death of Grund. Now You have 3 Options for night kills.

1) Yourself, seems kinda silly.
2) Me - I know I am a villager, but Grund did such a phenomenal job of making me look wolfish yesterday, I am the person most likely to get lynched and lose the game for the villagers. So Clearly I have to stick around.
2) Tru1cy - who is willing to test Semaj, but also considered a actual innocent by most.
3) The other person who isn't a wolf, either Stessier or Lassr.

Say I died last night
If Lassr is the Villager, He isn't voting for Tru1cy and Since I must be dead in this scenario, Odds are Stessier dies and the Wolves lose.
If Stessier is the Villager, he has Said he wont be voting Tr1ucy, so Odds are it would boil down to convincing tru1cy that Lassr is evil or the Villagers lose. Stessier wont be voting for tru1cy. So Lassr has 1 shot.

Say I don't die and they keep tru1cy alive.
Stessier or Lassr kill the other one (Of the Stessier/Lassr mix), leaving me, Stessier/Lassr and tru1cy: Clearly I wouldn't be voting for Tru1cy. It would be me vs the other guy who would of course have to go full bore into me.

With the Alignment we have right now. 1 person, and only 1 person (alive anyways) knows who really is the wolf. The two Villagers very much could vote for the other Villager. As such, this alignment gives the wolves the best chance at a V.

So yes, I like my belief Tru1cy dying was the smart play by the wolf. Since this alignment at least leaves the option of one of two Villagers making a mistake, not requiring the one to do it.

Argue what you want about why he didn't have to die. But Not seeing this as the best chance for a wolf victory is either you in denial or trying not to come up too wolfy.

And I'm not buying your spin. To set up your "test", you had to suspect the same person each day and find someone else innocent. That necessarily means a) you planned this from the beginning and b) you weren't looking for wolves. Not to mention the fact that long range planning is not the hallmark of Villagers. Funny that it was for you - especially when you are so known for getting yourself lynched.

You think it's me, but it can't be lassr? Interesting.

It could be Lassr. Its why I wont be putting out a vote until we have some chat time, and by we I mean, you me and Lassr. Nah... I had you on my possibly evil list with Tru1cy and Newcastle earlier on. Newcastle was seer and felt off. Tru1cy was on my shit list for voting last day 2 and You were there because you were not on my radar, which is never a good sign. Obviously my list changed... When Newcastle came out and more or less exonerated Tru1cy... At that point I stopped changing it tho. I figured the Seer would die that night, we'd have to deal with grund yesterday and then my only wonder was who would die last night. So I decided to keep going at you and see if it meant any changes in who died. Once tru1cy was cleared by you and grund, I realized it wasn't going to help me at all.

I mean I can re-say it 2 or 3 more times, but I'll be cutting and pasting.

It has to be one or the other and after what I found, yes - you are the wolf.

I think someone once said: What, it can't be Lassr?

So if you are the wolf and steadfast in your voting of me, lassr wins. If it's lassr as the other villager we should win this game eventually.

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here, but yes...if Lassr votes for you, we Villagers will win.

heh... yeah I guess I should spend years analyzing every word I write, but I'm not a wolf so I dont pay attention until about 2 posts later. But if you want, feel free to keep harping on it.

Feel free to explain the method to your madness there.

What madness are you referring to?

Newcastle claimed Seer and gave us his scans. Grund claimed Seer. Newcastle had already given us his scans so we knew Remus was a wolf.

No we did not. We knew Newcastle said he was a wolf. We also knew someone else had claimed seer.

Newcastle was only 90% sure Grund was bad. Really? The guy is claiming your Seer role. What possible reason is he not 100% sure he is a wolf at that point? Did he know that lynching Grund would show human and he wanted to leave himself wiggle room? A Seer doesn't equivocate! Why wouldn't you vote for Newcastle?

He was right, grund wasn't a wolf. Oddly, Newcastle knew Grund wasn't a seer, but he wasn't positive Grund was a wolf. You are stretching to find a reason to get him. I didn't vote Newcastle because I wanted to hear what Grund had to say, I wanted to test Remus to prove Newcaslte based on the fact I thought Newcastle seemed more Genuine.

However, I sure as hell was not going to throw the n-1 vote on the guy claiming to be a seer who claimed to have found a wolf before hearing everything out. And thats where I see a problem. Either You wanted the seer dead or didn't want to listen to any more chatting. Neither one seems right. The Villagers should want to hear all the facts before jumping into a lynch, no? Wolves want to get the lynch over and done with with as little information as possible transfering.

And no, I didn't care if a wolf jumped on. Newcastle was a wolf - those are the ones we are looking to get rid of!

No, he wasnt a wolf and neither was grund. The only person that was a wolf, was the guy Newcaslte said was a wolf. The one you essentially sided with in this. But rather than debate the plausibility of this, you tried to get him killed before anything else could happen.

As for the whole testing the seer over his charges thing.

Lets look at this from my perspective:

Newcastle was the seer. He said so. Grund argued he was the seer. Newcastle said he wasn't positive grund was a wolf, because he hadn't scanned him, but he was fairly certain because Grund was faking seer.

So... The argument is, if you kill the seer now, you in theory haven't just wasted a miss, o no, you have confirmed either Newcaslte was the seer or faking seer. Grund and Newcastle are not on the hook so be it.

Killing Remus netted us a wolf. Why? The seer said so.

So in a game when I am seer and I say: Hey I got a wolf and a Villager! the test is to kill me, not the wolf?

Can you see why I was bamboozled by this concept? Now if Grund had come out with a wolf and a villager, we have real issues. And then Maybe testing newcaslte might be a viable pursuit. But Grund hadn't. He had done no such thing at that point, if anything he seemed to be wavering in his seer claim.

So you feel free to explain to me how this tidbit of information, of which none had occured yet, makes you seem less wolfy.

While were at it, how is it your positive I am the wolf, but have no intention of commenting on Lassr?

Is he not playing? DId a seer clear him? Or are you playing with the knowledge with the crapshoot between us three, your best chance of winning is turning Lassr on me?

You aint seeming to Human right now.

[stessier]

It could be Lassr. Its why I wont be putting out a vote until we have some chat time, and by we I mean, you me and Lassr. Nah... I had you on my possibly evil list with Tru1cy and Newcastle earlier on. Newcastle was seer and felt off. Tru1cy was on my shit list for voting last day 2 and You were there because you were not on my radar, which is never a good sign. Obviously my list changed... When Newcastle came out and more or less exonerated Tru1cy... At that point I stopped changing it tho. I figured the Seer would die that night, we'd have to deal with grund yesterday and then my only wonder was who would die last night. So I decided to keep going at you and see if it meant any changes in who died. Once tru1cy was cleared by you and grund, I realized it wasn't going to help me at all.

Yes, thank you for giving us time to talk. You've said multiple times how careful you are playing this game. Don't want to upset people, don't want to risk getting lynched. A new Semaj for Tournament games!

But you still talk as though you expected to be alive the last day.

So I decided to keep going at you and see if it meant any changes in who died. Once tru1cy was cleared by you and grund, I realized it wasn't going to help me at all.

You knew you were going to be in this position because you were the one picking at night.

I mean I can re-say it 2 or 3 more times, but I'll be cutting and pasting.

No need. I think your message is pretty clear.

It has to be one or the other and after what I found, yes - you are the wolf.

I think someone once said: What, it can't be Lassr?

I'm not sure what you are finding hard to understand. Upon re-reading and you answering these questions, you are the wolf. I don't think it is Lassr.

Newcastle was only 90% sure Grund was bad. Really? The guy is claiming your Seer role. What possible reason is he not 100% sure he is a wolf at that point? Did he know that lynching Grund would show human and he wanted to leave himself wiggle room? A Seer doesn't equivocate! Why wouldn't you vote for Newcastle?

He was right, grund wasn't a wolf. Oddly, Newcastle knew Grund wasn't a seer, but he wasn't positive Grund was a wolf. You are stretching to find a reason to get him. I didn't vote Newcastle because I wanted to hear what Grund had to say, I wanted to test Remus to prove Newcaslte based on the fact I thought Newcastle seemed more Genuine.

However, I sure as hell was not going to throw the n-1 vote on the guy claiming to be a seer who claimed to have found a wolf before hearing everything out. And thats where I see a problem. Either You wanted the seer dead or didn't want to listen to any more chatting. Neither one seems right. The Villagers should want to hear all the facts before jumping into a lynch, no? Wolves want to get the lynch over and done with with as little information as possible transfering.

And no, I didn't care if a wolf jumped on. Newcastle was a wolf - those are the ones we are looking to get rid of!

No, he wasnt a wolf and neither was grund. The only person that was a wolf, was the guy Newcaslte said was a wolf. The one you essentially sided with in this. But rather than debate the plausibility of this, you tried to get him killed before anything else could happen.

As for the whole testing the seer over his charges thing.

Lets look at this from my perspective:

Newcastle was the seer. He said so. Grund argued he was the seer. Newcastle said he wasn't positive grund was a wolf, because he hadn't scanned him, but he was fairly certain because Grund was faking seer.

So... The argument is, if you kill the seer now, you in theory haven't just wasted a miss, o no, you have confirmed either Newcaslte was the seer or faking seer. Grund and Newcastle are not on the hook so be it.

Killing Remus netted us a wolf. Why? The seer said so.

So in a game when I am seer and I say: Hey I got a wolf and a Villager! the test is to kill me, not the wolf?

Can you see why I was bamboozled by this concept? Now if Grund had come out with a wolf and a villager, we have real issues. And then Maybe testing newcaslte might be a viable pursuit. But Grund hadn't. He had done no such thing at that point, if anything he seemed to be wavering in his seer claim.

So you feel free to explain to me how this tidbit of information, of which none had occured yet, makes you seem less wolfy.

This whole thing you are using after the fact knowledge to try and indict an in-the-moment response while playing fast and loose with the timeline. Look at my response to Lassr and re-read the section. That is what I saw and that is why I voted.

While were at it, how is it your positive I am the wolf, but have no intention of commenting on Lassr?

Is he not playing? DId a seer clear him? Or are you playing with the knowledge with the crapshoot between us three, your best chance of winning is turning Lassr on me?

You aint seeming to Human right now.

Once again, I re-read the whole thread. I looked at the section Grund pointed out as supporting Lassr's humanity. I looked at my own read on the situation. I balanced that with what I found on you. After I posted what I found, I was leaning you. The more you respond, the more sure I am that it is you.

[Lassr]

I think I might just flip a coin.

[Lassr]

Going through and reading each of your posts as if you were a wolf gives a few "ah ha" moments. The fact that neither one of you really attack my villager credibility doesn't help me. I waited but really never came from either of you. I so wish I was a wolf in this game now, it would make this choice easier.

I honestly do not know which of you is the wolf right now. There is one thing I may end up hanging my vote on but I will not list that right now.

I want to get more chat going and probably by tomorrow, hopefully, we can make a decision...correction, I can make a decision since you are both convinced the wolf is not me.

[Semaj]

If your the Villager it means I've been right for like 2-3 days now...

Man... I can see the people with spoilorz reading this now.

If you have any questions for either of us fire away.

And on to Stessier:

It could be Lassr. Its why I wont be putting out a vote until we have some chat time, and by we I mean, you me and Lassr. Nah... I had you on my possibly evil list with Tru1cy and Newcastle earlier on. Newcastle was seer and felt off. Tru1cy was on my shit list for voting last day 2 and You were there because you were not on my radar, which is never a good sign. Obviously my list changed... When Newcastle came out and more or less exonerated Tru1cy... At that point I stopped changing it tho. I figured the Seer would die that night, we'd have to deal with grund yesterday and then my only wonder was who would die last night. So I decided to keep going at you and see if it meant any changes in who died. Once tru1cy was cleared by you and grund, I realized it wasn't going to help me at all.

Yes, thank you for giving us time to talk. You've said multiple times how careful you are playing this game. Don't want to upset people, don't want to risk getting lynched. A new Semaj for Tournament games!

Sorry, I'll try to play more careless in the future... Oh I know... I'll explode over every little thing and try to make it easier for you... My bad.

But you still talk as though you expected to be alive the last day.

Wasnt sure until Newcastle made his announcement.

However at that point if you are a wolf: who do you kill at night? Well Lets see... Do you
A) Let the seer live another day?
B) Ignore someone who several people have announced is most likely a innocent
C) Kill off people most could think is a wolf?

Sorry if I can use common logic to figure out who the night kills are probably going to be.

So I decided to keep going at you and see if it meant any changes in who died. Once tru1cy was cleared by you and grund, I realized it wasn't going to help me at all.

You knew you were going to be in this position because you were the one picking at night.

You sound might damn positive there. If I was the one picking at night, I sure as hell wouldnt be announcing my selection.

I mean I can re-say it 2 or 3 more times, but I'll be cutting and pasting.

No need. I think your message is pretty clear.

Is it? The message that since I am a Villager I might think your the wolf, but you apparently know I am.

It has to be one or the other and after what I found, yes - you are the wolf.

I think someone once said: What, it can't be Lassr?

I'm not sure what you are finding hard to understand. Upon re-reading and you answering these questions, you are the wolf. I don't think it is Lassr.

Dont think and knowing I am the wolf are two different word usages.

Newcastle was only 90% sure Grund was bad. Really? The guy is claiming your Seer role. What possible reason is he not 100% sure he is a wolf at that point? Did he know that lynching Grund would show human and he wanted to leave himself wiggle room? A Seer doesn't equivocate! Why wouldn't you vote for Newcastle?

He was right, grund wasn't a wolf. Oddly, Newcastle knew Grund wasn't a seer, but he wasn't positive Grund was a wolf. You are stretching to find a reason to get him. I didn't vote Newcastle because I wanted to hear what Grund had to say, I wanted to test Remus to prove Newcaslte based on the fact I thought Newcastle seemed more Genuine.

However, I sure as hell was not going to throw the n-1 vote on the guy claiming to be a seer who claimed to have found a wolf before hearing everything out. And thats where I see a problem. Either You wanted the seer dead or didn't want to listen to any more chatting. Neither one seems right. The Villagers should want to hear all the facts before jumping into a lynch, no? Wolves want to get the lynch over and done with with as little information as possible transfering.

And no, I didn't care if a wolf jumped on. Newcastle was a wolf - those are the ones we are looking to get rid of!

No, he wasnt a wolf and neither was grund. The only person that was a wolf, was the guy Newcaslte said was a wolf. The one you essentially sided with in this. But rather than debate the plausibility of this, you tried to get him killed before anything else could happen.

As for the whole testing the seer over his charges thing.

Lets look at this from my perspective:

Newcastle was the seer. He said so. Grund argued he was the seer. Newcastle said he wasn't positive grund was a wolf, because he hadn't scanned him, but he was fairly certain because Grund was faking seer.

So... The argument is, if you kill the seer now, you in theory haven't just wasted a miss, o no, you have confirmed either Newcaslte was the seer or faking seer. Grund and Newcastle are not on the hook so be it.

Killing Remus netted us a wolf. Why? The seer said so.

So in a game when I am seer and I say: Hey I got a wolf and a Villager! the test is to kill me, not the wolf?

Can you see why I was bamboozled by this concept? Now if Grund had come out with a wolf and a villager, we have real issues. And then Maybe testing newcaslte might be a viable pursuit. But Grund hadn't. He had done no such thing at that point, if anything he seemed to be wavering in his seer claim.

So you feel free to explain to me how this tidbit of information, of which none had occured yet, makes you seem less wolfy.

This whole thing you are using after the fact knowledge to try and indict an in-the-moment response while playing fast and loose with the timeline. Look at my response to Lassr and re-read the section. That is what I saw and that is why I voted.

Saywhatnow?

There is no fast and loose with the timeline. As far as I can tell, feel free to tell me I am wrong (Which of course means I'll be re-reading this a second time)

Ok Fine, lets go through the timeline.

Newcastle claims seer, says he has a wolf and a Villager.
Grund asks for names.
Semaj says: damnit, and it looks like you are clearing tru1cy by saying this. So my list was completely wrong. Maybe I'll get lucky and he will have scanned me and I'll be the innocent. Once can dream. I would post why I think he took a run at Grund, but I would probably be stealing his thunder. Here is my why I think people might have been evil through process.
Stessier: And here I thought Lagum was the Seer after the Lagom quote from Lassr. Now lets accuse Semaj of being drunk for hoping he got scanned.
Tru1cy: Whoo, Validation.
Lassr: Lets answer Grund on why I am careful, and then say I mighta gotten Grunblecitis by thinkign Newcastle was a wolf when he was the seer.
Remus: Withdraw Tru1cy
Grund: I am staying with my vote on newcastle, he might be faking, he might not.
Lassr: I tried this once to fish for more information, didnt work.
Stess: Even less chance of subterfuge if eh has a wolf. Only reason is if he is faking seer and wants to make sure no seer comes out. Newcastle names a wolf. We lynch the target. If not a wolf, we lynch Newcastle tomorrow and go into the last day with Russian Roullette. If the target is a wolf, we still have 2 lynches to find the last one. Newcastle will die at night, so we'll at least not have to worry about tru1cy tomorrow. At worst, we end up in the same situation as if Newcastle is a wolf and we lynch a non-wolf he points to. So I think, barring someone Kelricing, that we lynch the target and see what happens.

Odd... This is what I have been saying... yet it makes me a wolf for saying it now? What the hell is Kelriching?

Lassr:he says he has a wolf so he has to give us one. We lynch his target and he is wolf then the remaining wolf has to kill Newc that night instead of taking a chance of him finding the other. If he doesn't die then we have to lynch him to be sure. If he gives us a villager then we lynch Newcastle the next day. It still puts the wolves at a disadvantage by giving us an extra day (I think) to hunt for the remaining WW. So I lean more toward Newcastle being the actual seer or a wolf that didn't think this through enough.
Grund: No stessier its not a good sign he didnt come right out with the results. You are so gullible it has me rethinking.
Grund: Rumor has it Lagoms wordage made him the seer. Why would he still not be the seer after someone else claims seer? Newcastle is a wolf fakin people! We are running out of time.
Stessier: We are not running out of time, pshah!
Stessier: Grund I dont care if he painted himself into a corner, He's going to name someone. Why wouldn't we lynch the target? What other choice do we have that would lead to a quicker, less hazardous finding of the truth?
Lassr: If Newcastle is a wolf then he sacrificed himself for what? I thought he looked wolfish, Grund had a vote on him, so he had the potential of 2 votes while tru1cy was gathering potential votes also. It doesn't make sense for a wolf to do this when he wasn't at risk yet. But, I agree, the hesitancy of his naming names makes me go hmmmm.
Grund: Stessier might be covering for wolf newcastle. He could be doing this for fame and glory? And as much as it doesnt make sense for Wolf Newcaslte to do this, Unagis death didnt make sense either. Maybe we should let the condemned talk before we kill them. Here is a list of the votes and who is still alive.
Lassr: I think we know who he will list as wolf which makes it more baffling why he would withhold the info.
Grund: My guess is that he's having trouble calculating how it will turn out. And rightly so. As you noted, it was in some respects a weird play from the get-go.
Lassr: Yes, after some more Calcualting, if we had lynched an innocent today we would have had to hit tomorrow. With this move we are guaranteed a hit today or tomorrow which gives us one extra day to find the last wolf. Oh Newc, where are you?

(Here is the big reveal)

Newcastle: Big reveal: I scanned Lagum and Remus, Remus is a wolf. Tru1cy is probably innocent, Lassr is most likely innocnet, Stessier in the innocent category, Semaj most likely innocent, Grund most likely the other werewolf.
I will be posting my analisys and reasoning in a bit, dont vote remus off yet. The reaso for the delay is I had to go to bed. I didnt want Tru1cy dying, so I announced it then and posted this when I woke up. Yeah i'll get flak, but I really am the seer.

Remus: Time to kill Newcastle! I'm digging for reasons, you changed your story about tru1cy being an innocent! (Ok he didnt say I'm digging for reasons)
Grund: Boom! I'm the seer.

Newcastle: wait are you counter claiming me grund? are you? Is that what i am seeing? WEEEE!!! a double wolf trap, when i only had one in my pocket and the other in my sight!!!! BOOYAH!!!!!BOOYAH!!!! and good people is why i delayed! As for tru1cy: well it's kind of obvious that he is innocent, when your furryness (that's you remus) is trying to convince lassr to vote on him, and then your other pack mate...grund is also trying to throw him over the edge.... so yeah....it was a bit of deductions there pal!!! /does the happy dance we got our two wolves...villagers won! villagers won!

Lassr: you know we must test you to be sure though. If you are a villager then we win by killing grund and remus the next 2 days.

Newcatsle: Obviously testing Remus first would be ideal. kind of curious how you are going to back this claim up there grund? add any bread crumbs anything like that? Please...inquiring minds want to know.

Grund: You have nobody dead to rights, and you know it. In fact, if he's your partner you could be offering him up to gain credibility.

Lassr: time to go do stuff, I'll be back to some highly entertaining reading.
Remus: Alright, that is going to far. I don't mind his naming me wolf because my death would condemn Newcastle but for you to counter his claim and suggest that I am his partner? Just plain rude. Obviously Grund's claim has more validity in my eyes as I know Newcastle is lying. Might be that I don't have to die for Newcastle to be revealed as a liar.
Newcastle: no, no i do, and i have you also as well good sir. I mean dont you want us to catch a wolf? Whatcha afraid of Grund? Oh, wait you claimed seer. you're just mukrying up the waters. I would like to see whom you *cough* scanned *cough*...would be a learning experience, so i can add it to my grund library of things to look out for when grund-playinig-evil. Here is a list of my bread crumbs.

Remus: Given that Grund did not counter your claim until AFTER you named me a wolf it seems extra unlikely that he is the only other wolf. Suppose that Grund and I are actually wolves but the village believes us and lynches you. The game does not end and thus the next two days find Grund and I hanging and losing. Regardless of his odds for surviving tomorrow, they would be better than zero. Thus it seems silly to suggest that we are both wolves. In fact, it seems a stupid play for any wolf to make countering a true Seer. I think you picked me to name wolf because I had made it clear I was not the Seer with my comments about Lagom yet many folks had expressed belief in me so I was dangerous to your side if only because you would have a harder time getting me lynched without the lie. Given Grund's comments and steady holding to his comments on stessier and myself I would have guessed that he had scanned the two of us and found us clean but his recent interchange with stessier makes me doubt that and thus maybe I was at least right about stessier if not about tru1cy (still not ruling him out though).

Newcastle: actually i picked you to scan, simply because if good, i could build a nice block of good guys...you should actually be pleased about that....i was surprised as hell that you came back wolfy to be honest. seriously surprised. Knowing i had you, i had to make some fast calculations and deductions and thought your likely partner was...and well here we are. Hey Grund, feel free to prove you seer claim. actually believe it or not, when Lassr and stessier were starting to sniff around me, i realized i was acting off...and had to kind of calm myself down...since well, this was the first time i'd been seer...so it was like "OOOOH SHINY!!!! YEAH" and i wasn't sure how to act...so once i realized I was acting off, i had to recalibrate myself. So not only was it a wakeup call, but i figured it was also a bit of cover. So thanks lassr.

Remus; I have no real reason to fight, This is when I show math how we are fine if you are faking seer.

Stessier: Newcastle's Villager is already dead. So if Newcastle is the Seer, the wolves just eat him tonight and are done with him. Based on that, why does Wolfy Grund claim Seer? That goes from making it a question who is the 2nd wolf, to a surety. It doesn't add up. And why didn't he tell us what his scans were with his announcement. Hello Pot.

Newcastle: And when the day dawned stessier, that is what i was looking at.. I had one dead villager who i had scanned and i had one wolf. So i had to milk it for what it was worth. I was also pretty certain i was going to come out today, since having one wolf is better than nothing...and at the minimum i could push the game to the final day...and that's what sealed the deal...i knew i was coming out...but at the same time...i had to milk as much information out of the day as possible...to give the villagers a fighting chance to nab the last wolf...and i think i did that. I was also a bit nervous that i would become kibble at night. So that's why I was trying to get as much information as possible. And the reason i scanned lagom....simply enough i thought he would survive and i could build a block from that. The reason I scanned remus...it was actually a toss up between him and semaj...but since i had previously kind of grouped semaj with theohall...i figured i would learn more from scannign remus.

Tru1cy: withdraw grund Now this is turning interesting... Back back later Btw, Grund has been setting at two votes with everyone checking in and he wasn't rail-roaded...Something to ponder

Newcastle: http://www.octopusoverlords.com/forum/v ... 0#p1490349" target="_blank Not writing that down. Just a stroll through why he thinks its grund with remus.
Remus - WOLF
Grund - most likely the partner wolf (around 90% sure, could still be wrong, but i am highly doubtful)
Innocent
Truicy - verified by Remus attempt to get him voted down today.

The rest (sorry guys that this is not going to come out as a full endorsement, but if i am wrong about grund, its one of your three in here) I just need to put this in as a failsafe.
Lassr - out of the last three, i am doubting it his him, he wasn't willing to be bullied by remus
Semaj - am doubting him as well...also since remus had pegged him as doing his own thing on his suspect list
Stessier - again doubting him...but of the remaining three, i think it would be him. If it came down to you three.

Again i am extrememly confident that GRund is the remaining wolf. But your mileage may vary and your opinions may differ.
[/end Newcastle]

Semaj: Ima throw this one out there for funziez.... Both lads could be faking seer, it could be Grund and Newcastle both as wolves, which would make me way happier. I guess it all hinges on whether Remus is a wolf. Not sure why they would make the play tho... Grund getting near death for this game? Hoping to buy him at least 1 day if not credibility? Anyways... I am down for testing remus since it'll get us a wolf regardless and if the "wolves" let "grund" live through 2 nights, clearly he is lying as well. Although I do like newcastles arguing/defense/etc.... Course Grund prolly has the same hints. Bleh... at least the last 2 or 3 days will be interesting.

Stessier: Dude, are you the Seer or not? Grund is claiming Seer and you are claiming Seer. How can you be only 90% sure on this one? Kelric much? What am I missing? Newcastle just told us he's a wolf, right?

Newcastle: Ok, poor choice of words. 99.9% certain he is the other wolf...feel better? He's got to be...since he tried to counter claim me...but it's hard for me to act upon such things. without final proof...ie a lynch result or a scan result......so up until he's dead, it's still going to be a 99.9% he's the wolf....it's just the way i am built up...nothing is final, nothing is 100% certain until the deed is passed or knowledge is absolutely certain....so its more staying to who i am personally (ie in real life) than anything else....there can always be that slight % chance i could be wrong. Just the way i am. So mayeb should have said 99.9% sure...sorry And yes i am the seer that i know with 100% certainty.

Stessier:Wolfy Grund doesn't claim Seer.
But Grund did claim Seer.
Newcastle also claims Seer - but is only 90% sure Grund is bad.
Yeah  Newcastle 
 


Who are your scans Grund?
[/end stessier]

So tell me, how is that fast and loose with the timeline? Grund didnt have his scans out. Newcastle was showing breadcrumbs and while he wasnt grund was the wolf, he was positive he was faking seer.

So at this point: We had a MIA lassr, Grund accusing Newcastle and the guy Newcastle was accusing accusing Newcastle. And you decided at that moment to be the n-1 vote. But still, lets continue so there is no arguing the timeline:

Newcastle: stessier, at the end of the game...i am going to repost this.....and have you stare at it....my lord. uhm, please look at the bread crumbs. And uhm, also, you realize i am at 3 now?
Stessier: Weak. There is no uncertainty. There is one role two people are claiming. The true claimant 100% knows the other is lying. Don't give up your day job to go into crisis management.

Grund: Withdraw Newcastle. Newcastle: What do you think of stessier as Remus Wolf's partner? Those are the two who just tried to bring your day to an end with votes 2 and 3 out of 4. Your Breadcrumb-fu is weak.

Newcastle: To Stessier: valid point...but all he said was Boom I'm the seer...without much else....so is it a serious claim, is it a joking claim....and that's why i'd never go into crisis management not how i am built. And right now stessier, i am extremely worried about you...and worried how this is going to really screw teh village over...if i get tossed today....actually...i am not....grund's gonna claim seer, as he has been...we know that remus is the other wolf...i am no longer worried. To Grund: Meh, Grund, i dont think stessier is remus partner in crime. I think you are. what more could we discuss grund? We test remus today? - he shows wolfy (of that am 100% certain) I become kibble at night We lynch you tomorrow (based on the basis of the counter claim you just made and are starting to prop up) You show up wolfy.....game over, set match! There is no other way really...Oh, so we lynch me....today I show up innocent we lynch grund and then remus or either or...bam, bam...double lynches back to back...though that would be a bit of a buzzkill me dying before you guys. and your scans are? and your bread crumbs are? So you got no bread crumbs? Or do you? Oh, wait is the delay so you can rush back through your posts, and try to figure some things out here and there...or was your plan all along to have remus come out as seer late in the game. Was he your Home run pass?

Lassr: To Semaj (About the double seer gambit) I thought about this, but if we kill Newcastle today and Grund doesn't die tonight then he dies tomorrow. Case closed if they are both wolves. Grund is way way too smart of a player to fake seer as a wolf when that loses the game for them. So, if Newcastle scanned Remus why the hell was he pushing Grund so hard at the start of the day? When you gonna give us your scans Grund?

Stessier: You forgot, of course, the lynch wolfy Newcastle and look for your partner tomorrow plan. I'm assuming the Grund questioning means you don't have two Villagers for us.
....

OK you get the idea.

Anyways Lassr: go back and glance... I would reccomend if You really are the final Villager to look long and hard at that sequence.

Still... lets get back to the here and now.

Stessier: If you really are the other villager we are really and truly fucked.

[stessier]

Going through and reading each of your posts as if you were a wolf gives a few "ah ha" moments. The fact that neither one of you really attack my villager credibility doesn't help me. I waited but really never came from either of you. I so wish I was a wolf in this game now, it would make this choice easier.

I honestly do not know which of you is the wolf right now. There is one thing I may end up hanging my vote on but I will not list that right now.

I want to get more chat going and probably by tomorrow, hopefully, we can make a decision...correction, I can make a decision since you are both convinced the wolf is not me.

I really wish you hadn't said this. There's a reason I haven't placed my vote yet. I was hoping it was you just mulling the situation and not a deliberate choice.

[stessier]

And then Semaj comes through and helps wipe away the doubt.

But you still talk as though you expected to be alive the last day.

Wasnt sure until Newcastle made his announcement.

However at that point if you are a wolf: who do you kill at night? Well Lets see... Do you
A) Let the seer live another day?
B) Ignore someone who several people have announced is most likely a innocent
C) Kill off people most could think is a wolf?

Sorry if I can use common logic to figure out who the night kills are probably going to be.

Really? You knew when Newcastle announced Remus that you would make it to the final day? How? You knew we wouldn't find the wolf yesterday? You knew we were likely going to have to test Grund, but you knew he was innocent despite saying for days that we had to test him. You never had any doubt - you were setting up for this day since Bubbles was lynched. Because all you were thinking about is who is going to die at night, not who the day lynches were going to be.

You sound might damn positive there. If I was the one picking at night, I sure as hell wouldnt be announcing my selection.

I mean I can re-say it 2 or 3 more times, but I'll be cutting and pasting.

No need. I think your message is pretty clear.

Is it? The message that since I am a Villager I might think your the wolf, but you apparently know I am.

Yes, I'm pretty confident at this point. It must be annoying to be caught.

It strikes me, though, that you are doing the same thing as Lassr. You're not really attacking - you're not looking for a wolf. You're strictly defending and doing it in a way to upset as few people as possible. You keep trying to convince me I should recheck Lassr, but without giving reasons. You're just waiting for one of us to vote for the other so you can finish us off.

Yeah, you're the wolf.

It has to be one or the other and after what I found, yes - you are the wolf.

I think someone once said: What, it can't be Lassr?

I'm not sure what you are finding hard to understand. Upon re-reading and you answering these questions, you are the wolf. I don't think it is Lassr.

Dont think and knowing I am the wolf are two different word usages.

You criticize me for "knowing" you are a wolf and then for admitting a smidgen of doubt about Lassr. The wolf is running out of places to hide.


Start the morning concerned I'm making a huge mistake, end it more confident than ever. Good times!

[Lassr]

Who's gonna be the brave soul to cast the first vote?

[Remus West]

[Lassr]

Well after reading and reading and reading and then more reading I could easily build a case for both semaj and stessier. So I'm gonna let it come down to one thing- <dramatic pause>

[Lassr]

I remember when Remus has been a bad guy he has stressed "be sure you vote for me." Stessier cast the final kill vote on Remus within one minute of tru1cy casting his vote. Semaj never cast a vote on Remus.

So I'm going to say  stessier 
 


then I'll say congrats semaj, the wolf, since I always gets this wrong and did not do the George Costanza strategy.

I could go on longer but I'd just flip flop more and more. So let's get this over with.

I've got to leave and I'll come back to a heroes welcome or being the goat once again.

[Semaj]

shit...

Ok...

Hrm....

This is what I assume is the correct move, give me a minute or three to convince myself it is...

[stessier]

Woah - Semaj is human?!?

Semaj - I'm human. Horribly misguided, but human.

 Lassr 
 

[stessier]

Semaj - hear me out before voting.

[Semaj]

I'll listen....

[stessier]

I'll listen....

Thanks. Writing.

[stessier]

Listen - I think it is clear I thought you were the wolf. Everything I pointed out just reeks of a plan successfully executed. You had be, tru1cy, and Grund on your list with Lassr good and we all just happen to end up together on the last 2 days? You wanted to vote for Remus when I still believe Newcastle was the better choice. You seemed so sure you were going to make it to the end - I just don't know how you of all people could count on that.

And yet I'm not dead and you had the chance to cast the kill vote. You must be human, which means Lassr must be the wolf.

Look at what he did today - the reason I didn't vote for you yet. He didn't look for any wolf behavior at all. All he said was he re-read and came up with me as a wolf. Then he said he re-read and we were at 50/50. Then he said he re-read and based on the Remus vote - the one we were arguing the most about - I was the wolf. You never wavered in your support of him. I did (albeit very slightly). He chose the more sure vote to back - yours.

I know it's going to be nearly impossible to forget today, but look at what I've done before now. I've been looking for wolves - I've been trying to help the Village. I'll explain whatever you need me to, but I'm human. Lassr is the wolf.

[Semaj]

Like I said before... If you were the human, we are completely screwed.

If you want to try and make a case for humanness I am down, mainly because I havent slept in about 24, 30 hours now. And if I dont keel over and die, it's going to end poorly.

I figure I got a day to reread and thin it through. No offense Lassr, but if you are the other HUman you can understand.

I dont plan on rushing to any decision... one that now rests apparently squarely on ym shoulders.

As for how I could be positive.

The easy answer is: If you had to decide who you wanted on the final day as a wolf, would you want me, or tru1cy?

I look way too wolfish to not bring. Newcastle showed us a wolf, when he did, He was the obvious night kill. The next day we had to deal with faking the seer grund, no matter what. UNfortuneatly due to the fact Tru1cy was more or less announced a villager by one and all, he had to die that night. No way around it if you are playing a wolf who wants to win... Unless like you said you are fairly certain Tru1cy is voting for the other villager.

I didnt plan on voting first, ever. I would accept defeat if both guys voted for me, not much I could do about it.

But as it's in my hands, I dont really want to leave you two hanging. I always hated waiting forever for a decision.

But I really need a frakking nap. So Like I said, I'll listen... I make no guarentee's I'll be switching my intended vote. I just want to at least think I made the best decision I could of with the information given.

[Semaj]

Listen - I think it is clear I thought you were the wolf. Everything I pointed out just reeks of a plan successfully executed. You had be, tru1cy, and Grund on your list with Lassr good and we all just happen to end up together on the last 2 days?

Thought about that.

Yeah, it was way too convenient. Which is why I stopped changing my lists. I want to leave myself in a situation where I was here on the final day. I felt if I had you as my going to kill him and Lassr as my innocent guy... if it came down to us without the whole tru1cy being a good guy thing, i was voting for him without hesitation. Too big a setup imho.

Still at least _Now_ people believe i might be the other frakkign villager.

Ok I'ma take my nap

[stessier]

I'm not sure what proof of my humanness you are looking for. I thought it was pretty clear I've been looking for wolves, but the last day has shown you don't see it that way. Which is unfortunate.

All I can say is I've been trying to help the Village. The only thing I haven't said before would be that when we were discussing things yesterday with Grund, I was the one who found the tru1cy quote that cleared him. As a wolf, why would I do that? A wolf wants the utmost confusion at all times. If anything, a wolf would have kept that in his back pocket to reveal on the last day as an "Aha - I trust tru1cy, so X must be a wolf" type reveal. All I've been trying to do is clear things up. We didn't have to vote for Grund yesterday - had we gone back and found something that discovered a wolf, we could have lynched that. I was looking - was Lassr?

Actually, looking back, he was dead set on voting for Grund and is the only one who didn't say anything about tru1cy. I wonder what would have happened had I never found that quote.

I have to do an experiment all afternoon. If you come up with an specific questions, I'll be able to checkin sometime after work.

[Lassr]

the fact that semaj did not jump on that vote makes me feel much better. Stessier is the wolf.

so semaj it is up to you.

I went with my gut feeling. Your post felt more passionate and human as I read them. Stessier jumping on that kill vote smelled wolfish. He was also still pushing Newcastle or Remus after Grund said he was not the seer. If you have 1 seer and 1 wolf scan, you test the scan not the seer.

It is up to you now. Choose wisely.

[Lassr]

Summary of my findings:

there is never much significant interaction between semaj and Remus nor stessier and Remus. So no help there. Neither of you really questioned my goodness on the last day. No help there.
stessier's posts became pretty emphatic that semaj was a wolf, playing to my good side hoping he would win me over. Playing to my gullible naive side like Grund did in the past. That part of me is now dead in these games. Grund killed it off in the last game he was evil.

stessier voted for Remus the first day when we lynched Bubbles. Convenient vote against a fellow wolf while an innocent is lynched.
semaj had an hour window to get in a vote on Remus when it was finally revealed that Grund was not the seer. He held back, a dangerous thing to do as the other wolf trying to protect his partner. stessier jumped on that last vote 1 minute after tru1cy voted. A strategy pushed before by Remus and his partner.

those were the tipping points in my reading. Nothing else.

[Kraegor]

6. Idea would be to have games resolve in two weeks or so per contest.

[pr0ner]

*watches the game grind to a halt*

[Semaj]

Well the quick and the dirty is, I passed out, about 2 or 3 hours later I got woken up and someone asked if I wanted to hit a bar... I hit it with authority and passed out and slept about 15 hours straight. I then got up, hopped on here, read the things, realized I was still a bit drunk and passed out for 2 more hours. Now I'm getting my hangover... yay. And debating praying to the porcelain god. It's been a fun day to say the least.

OK Time to go through some of my methodology and stall for about an hour and explain what Semaj has been thinking.


Lassr felt today like he was more or less letting Stessier and I fight it out. Stessier was on me like white on rice. More or less saying it couldnt be lassr, it HAD to be me. Me, I was saying: it's one of other two, please explain some wolfish behavior I felt I saw. I assumed at one point I was hosed until lassr said he was leaning me being the other villager. At which point I at least felt the village has a fighting chance.

The real problem is... I am really thinking Lassr is probably last Wolf. But he's played such a good game, I almost want to vote Stessier to reward him if he is. He has magically stayed off everyones radar, he hasnt done anything confrontational. And he resisted the urge to bury Newcastle when he had the chance. Probably would have cost him the game, but when he actually felt Grund wavering, he was completely thinking along the same lines I was. Him announcing it made me trust him slightly more than I had to that point.

So I am probably going to vote stessier. And if the village loses because of it so be it.

I stopped changing my list on purpose. I was hoping the villagers wouldn't point out Tru1cy had more or less cleared himself. If they hadn't he might have made it to today, if he had, I was voting for the other guy if I was alive. It would be simple for me. I wouldn't have this kinda decision to make.


As far as whether or not Stessier is a wolf,... no idea. But I remember previous games and when I would get a feeling about stessier, it was usually right. Its not a major read, you don't have huge tells, but the way you react to certain events (at least to me) usually give you away when you are a wolf. It's been pretty much from the day I was a villager and had you dead to rights, got killed by the village for it and got to read the wolf boards. Gave me some valuable insight into how other wolves think and act. You havent played a controlled game, at least not today or yesterday. You have played really recklessly, something you were not doing before that. Almost as if old Stess came out when Remus died. It's another reason I think you might be the wolf. Your reactions, the methodology and me being here.

When Newcastle went at grund hardcore, I had no idea why. It felt he was fishing. When he started asking questions to people I realized he had been fishing. I went to bed while he was in question mode and missed my chance to chime in. When I came back he had claimed seer. I didn't like it because he was the only person to even bother pushing me. So I thought he was a wolf. And with the Lagom thing, I felt he could be faking. _But_ him not posting his scans reeked of more human than wolf. If I am a wolf and I fake seer, I have my scans ready to go right then and there, i dont hold off on them. You get what happened with Tru1cy where he pretty much makes himself a trusted without being scanned and you put doubt in peoples eyes on whether or not you are the seer. I eventually pieced together why Newcastle was doing what he was doing. He was going after grund to see who else jumped on. When no one did, he realized his attempt to smoke out a wolf had failed.

When Grund counterclaimed seer. I felt he was faking. If he wasn't, he wouldn't have waited to post his scans. I didn't think Grund was the wolf because of it, he might have been, but it felt too bad a play for him to do it. After he had been called out and still didn't post his scans, I knew he didn't have any and his hand had been forced. I said as much in a post about him not having scans. Lassr felt the same way. At that point, I didn't think there was much an option. We had to test Remus since Newcastle felt more Genuine about possibly being the seer. When we had 3 people on Newcastle, I was surprised. It was Grund, Remus and Stessier. I felt we had at least 1 wolf there (duh) and probably 2. But my lists had Tru1cy who sorts self cleared himself, Newcaslte, and Stessier as my baddies. Which means I was way off... Newcastle I can explain... Blah blah Seer vide being mistaken for a wolf vibe. What bothers me is I asked to be scanned and when he announced he had a wolf and a villager I said: Please let me be the villager scan. No one seemed to notice that. But tru1cy, everyone noticed... lol.

So I moved Grund up my threat matrix, dropped Newcastle and (mentally)Tru1cy off the list and just stopped posting real threat matrices. I figured I was going to die at night, but if I didn't announce my real threat matrices, I might catch a wolf. Because no self respecting wolf would leave me alive if I said he was a wolf and it was who I would be voting for the final day. Then Grund said I was a wolf. He outed Tru1cy (along with you stessier) and suddenly I realized I was making it to the final day for sure. I to that point had done a decent job of playing, but not hitting anyones radar. I got irked. I knew it was going to be me, Stessier and Lassr, which is the suckathon of actual decision making.

I can see Lassr as a wolf, playing very mellow and not very aggressive. Just laying back and calling people out when he has to. Even today he hasn't done much of anything. So I am torn on Lassr. It could also me being paranoid.

Stessier has felt like a wolf for a bit. When I first put you on, it was to see if you had a reaction. You had none. But as time progressed I started really thinking you could be a wolf and the last 2 days clinched it.

so, yeah, stalling... at least till my hangover leaves. I assume neither one of you is going to bother posting so I got nothing else to work with, huzzah. I wont keep ya guys waiting too much longer, sorry about the delay as it is. But never make important decisions inebriated

[Lassr]

Lassr felt today like he was more or less letting Stessier and I fight it out.

I can see Lassr as a wolf, playing very mellow and not very aggressive. Just laying back and calling people out when he has to. Even today he hasn't done much of anything. So I am torn on Lassr. It could also me being paranoid.

You are right, I have not posted much on this game day. You were pretty sure it was stessier and stessier was pretty sure it was you as the last wolf. So in my view I had only to find out which of you was lying and did not have to prove myself as human. That is why I did not post much.

Now that the decision is in your court you know how I felt. I went with my feeling after reading all the posts over and over. You need to do the same. You have felt like stessier is the last wolf and you are correct. There is nothing I can point to that proves me as human. Although I feel my play has benefited the village.

All I can say is trust your feelings.

[stessier]

Its so nice to hear the Village never had a chance. You've played right into their hands and decided that its worth rewarding. Fantastic! I knew we were probably toast once I figured out you were human after I'd been going after you so hard. I thought you'd at least reconsider - not reconsider and think - yeah, Lassr would make a great wolf but BRAVO!

Now I know how you felt when I misinterpreted everything and railroaded you over triggercut. Just vote and end it.

[stessier]

All I can say is trust your feelings.

My only consolation is that next game, we lynch you first.

[Lassr]

Its so nice to hear the Village never had a chance. You've played right into their hands and decided that its worth rewarding. Fantastic! I knew we were probably toast once I figured out you were human after I'd been going after you so hard. I thought you'd at least reconsider - not reconsider and think - yeah, Lassr would make a great wolf but BRAVO!

Now I know how you felt when I misinterpreted everything and railroaded you over triggercut. Just vote and end it.

thought this looked familiar:

now he's using his attack mode to make you feel bad. He tried to use this against me in a game in which he was bad and I was voting against him.

page 10 of Angel and Demons.

[Remus West]

[Lassr]

what happens if one of the last villagers dies of alcohol poisoning? Guess stessier would get an easy snack.

[Newcastle]

shhhhhh.... you'll wake rip van winkle from his alcohol induced nap