NY vs. Trump - Financial Fraud Case

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:13 pm

Surprised there wasn’t a thread for this already, apologies if I missed it.

But anyway, seems like someone was a naughty boy and got called out for his behavior:

“Unhinged, deranged fraud defendant Donald Trump posted at attack on the Clerk for Judge Engoron on Truth Social during his trial today.

Trump listed her name, claimed that she is Senator Chuck Schumer's girlfriend, posted her phone, a link to her Instagram account, and demanded that his case be dismissed because of her.

Trump was reportedly brought back into the courtroom after leaving for lunch. The doors were then closed for session between the attorneys, Trump, and the judge. Trump then deleted the post.”

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/trump- ... dges-clerk

I’d have given $100 to be able to be there at that meeting.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:22 pm

The judge has issued a gag order, and ordered Trump to take the post down:

https://x.com/eorden/status/17092834127 ... NcXCfN8s1g

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:50 pm

Solitary confinement sounds like a great way to put a gag on him.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:54 pm

Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:22 pm The judge has issued a gag order, and ordered Trump to take the post down:

https://x.com/eorden/status/17092834127 ... NcXCfN8s1g

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:41 pm

I love that the clerk taking a selfie with Schumer means she's his girlfriend but Trump ogling ass in a video with Epstein means he didn't know the guy.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:27 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:54 pm
Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 3:22 pm The judge has issued a gag order, and ordered Trump to take the post down:

https://shitrer.com/eorden/status/17092 ... NcXCfN8s1g

Issy,
You are doing a service to this country.

Thank you!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:35 pm

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:27 pm

Trump: The criming---I did it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:35 pm

Oh the wheel of time has come back around again and it's just the time where he somehow convinces people he should be allowed to commit crimes.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:30 am

"I don't even need the loan, I have so much money."

Weird then, right?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:19 am

The attack on this trial by Trump is a harbinger of 2024. He amplified it this morning with a direct call for "HELP!". It seems almost certain he is going to stoke political violence if he continues this way. And I doubt we are up to the challenge we are about to face.

I’m in a rat’s nest of NEW YORK DEMOCRAT CORRUPTION, a reason so many companies are leaving New York, our Racist Attorney General filled a lawsuit whose facts and VALUATIONS are wrong, like $18,000,000 for Mar-a-Lago, when it is worth, perhaps, 100 times that amount, and numerous other properties, likewise, that this case is a political SHAM that should never have been brought. I DON’T EVEN GET A JURY – Therefore, a Radical Left Judge, who came up through Democrat Club System, will decide. It is not possible that he can be fair. Every decision he makes has been a horror show. It is why I do the set asides with the media – To explain the case, and what is going on. Our CORRUPT, RACIST, & INCOMPETENT A.G., Letitia “Peekaboo” James, considered the WORST ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE UNITED STATES, refused to bring this case under the respected “Commercial Division,” where judges understand Valuations and Real Estate. This Trump Hating Judge doesn’t. The Appellant Division must intercede, NOW!

The ridiculous A.G. case against me in New York, brought by the Racist and Incompetent Peekaboo James, is being studied and mocked all over the World. Companies are Fleeing! It, and the highly political, Trump Hating Judge, are DESTROYING the Image and Reputation of the New York State Legal System & Courts. I don’t even get a Jury! All of this while MURDERS & VIOLENT CRIME HIT UNIMAGINABLE RECORDS! This is sooo bad for New York. HELP! The respected Commercial Division, where it should have been sent in the first place, must take over this “sh.. show.”

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:33 am

He's just free speechin', I'm sure.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:36 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:19 am The attack on this trial by Trump is a harbinger of 2024. He amplified it this morning with a direct call for "HELP!". It seems almost certain he is going to stoke political violence if he continues this way. And I doubt we are up to the challenge we are about to face.

I’m in a rat’s nest of NEW YORK DEMOCRAT CORRUPTION, a reason so many companies are leaving New York, our Racist Attorney General filled a lawsuit whose facts and VALUATIONS are wrong, like $18,000,000 for Mar-a-Lago, when it is worth, perhaps, 100 times that amount, and numerous other properties, likewise, that this case is a political SHAM that should never have been brought. I DON’T EVEN GET A JURY – Therefore, a Radical Left Judge, who came up through Democrat Club System, will decide. It is not possible that he can be fair. Every decision he makes has been a horror show. It is why I do the set asides with the media – To explain the case, and what is going on. Our CORRUPT, RACIST, & INCOMPETENT A.G., Letitia “Peekaboo” James, considered the WORST ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE UNITED STATES, refused to bring this case under the respected “Commercial Division,” where judges understand Valuations and Real Estate. This Trump Hating Judge doesn’t. The Appellant Division must intercede, NOW!

The ridiculous A.G. case against me in New York, brought by the Racist and Incompetent Peekaboo James, is being studied and mocked all over the World. Companies are Fleeing! It, and the highly political, Trump Hating Judge, are DESTROYING the Image and Reputation of the New York State Legal System & Courts. I don’t even get a Jury! All of this while MURDERS & VIOLENT CRIME HIT UNIMAGINABLE RECORDS! This is sooo bad for New York. HELP! The respected Commercial Division, where it should have been sent in the first place, must take over this “sh.. show.”

Doesn't he "not get a jury" because his lawyers didn't ask for one?

Also, I just LOVE to read all of his PANIC, it's kind FUN.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 9:58 am

I don't love it at all. He is going to get people killed. Again.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:52 am

Yeah, you are, of course, correct.

Give me a little slack. I'm not speaking to that angle of the message at all. I'm just saying it's nice to think that Trump is genuinely worried right now that shit is getting real.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:03 am

People react to horror in different ways and I'm not calling it out in any way. I *personally* don't have capacity for levity in the panicked reaction of this guy any more. Especially when it has him calling out threats on individuals or talking about migrants poisoning the blood of the nation (as he did yesterday). His rage is going to get people killed and I (again just me) can't find anything even a little funny in that anymore.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:10 am

That conduct will drive the judge to act. It’s foolish to piss off the judge who controls your fate and has the power to impose consequences.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:17 am

Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:10 am That conduct will drive the judge to act. It’s foolish to piss off the judge who controls your fate and has the power to impose consequences.

True. The judge very well might impose consequences. Unfortunately that'll probably just intensify his attack on the system. That isn't any attempt to counsel caution from the judge but more a comment that this is one of the 'sure bet' things we can take away from this chaos. He will act out and apparently he is way past pushing the limits. Luckily we haven't seen any real kinetic action...yet...but if it does all hell breaks loose.

Daveman · Post by **Daveman** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:58 am

I get that the judicial system is its own special kind of bureaucracy and that it's taken very seriously, but I'm surprised that having a trial by jury is decided solely by a checkbox on a form and not subject to some verbal/personal confirmation. Especially when a rich(?) white man who happens to be a former President of the United States is involved.

I get that his lawyers mistakenly didn't check that box, but is the judge/clerk/System being overly picky or deliberately ignoring something that should have prompted a phone call? Not that I don't love that Trump is getting screwed here, just curious.

Malificent · Post by **Malificent** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:02 pm

Daveman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:58 am I get that the judicial system is its own special kind of bureaucracy and that it's taken very seriously, but I'm surprised that having a trial by jury is decided solely by a checkbox on a form and not subject to some verbal/personal confirmation. Especially when a rich(?) white man who happens to be a former President of the United States is involved.

I get that his lawyers mistakenly didn't check that box, but is the judge/clerk/System being overly picky or deliberately ignoring something that should have prompted a phone call? Not that I don't love that Trump is getting screwed here, just curious.

My understanding was that it was SO obviously fraud that they just skipped right past the trial.

When?
A judge ruled against Trump and his co-defendants late last month, concluding that many of the defendants’ claims were “clearly” fraudulent—so clearly that he didn’t need a trial to hear them. (He also sanctioned Trump’s lawyers for making repeated frivolous arguments.) A trial to determine the amount of damages Trump owes began Monday in Manhattan, and could stretch for weeks or even months.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ource=feed

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:06 pm

Daveman wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 11:58 am I get that the judicial system is its own special kind of bureaucracy and that it's taken very seriously, but I'm surprised that having a trial by jury is decided solely by a checkbox on a form and not subject to some verbal/personal confirmation. Especially when a rich(?) white man who happens to be a former President of the United States is involved.

I get that his lawyers mistakenly didn't check that box, but is the judge/clerk/System being overly picky or deliberately ignoring something that should have prompted a phone call? Not that I don't love that Trump is getting screwed here, just curious.

FWIW they didn't "mistakenly" fail to check a box. They checked a box that specifically requested a bench trial. He wasn't screwed. A team of people made a choice for their client here and this barking about a jury or not jury is just part of his attack. Don't fall for it.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:16 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 10:52 am Yeah, you are, of course, correct.

Give me a little slack. I'm not speaking to that angle of the message at all. I'm just saying it's nice to think that Trump is genuinely worried right now that shit is getting real.

I'll give you some slack. I want him to squirm. In fact I want him to break. If he's a broken man at the end of all this, it won't make up for the damage he's done, but at least there would be a modicum of justice.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:58 pm

He doesn’t seem even close to breaking unfortunately.

I hope he’s not intentionally spouting off like this to turn his significant, already rage-fueled following into violent super soldiers.

As in, he knows he’s toast legally, so he’s going for broke and hoping the max chaos that he causes will somehow end up altering what seems to be inevitable.

I’m REALLY hoping it’s just his typical ‘I can’t keep my mouth shut even if it results in Perjuring myself”.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:46 pm

I think at some point we need to come to terms with the fact that if we ever hope to hold Trump accountable for his crimes, it is absolutely going to come with a mother-fucking-shitstorm-freakout-call-to-arms like we have never seen before.

Let's understand that's part of what this will inevitably include.

Jaymon · Post by **Jaymon** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:47 pm

Being cut off from an audience IS a major punishment for TFG, and it seems incredibly unlikely he will be able to abide by the terms of any sort of gag order.

I am really looking forward to his first time behind bars being cause by 'contemt of court', which really does seem to be one of his defining character traits.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:57 pm

Beating a dead horse and all that, and I usually try to steer clear of listening to any actual audio of him speaking because it enrages me, but I did listen to the video above. It's STILL a bit shocking to me to what extent this man believes he is the center of the universe, unique, "like no one else" (and I think he ALMOST was going to say "in the world" after that but actually caught himself maybe), for things in which he's not special or unique. The irony is that he IS unique and special in so many ways, but just not the ones he wants to be known and praised for.

OTOH think how fucking scary he would be if he pivoted and embraced that side of himself...he truly is a force, like nobody else, etc. in so many ways, socially, politically, etc. But his ego of wanting to be internet and TV famous for being (rich and famous) outweighs all that...that's a VERY thin silver lining, but it's something. Let's just hope he doesn't change HOW he wants to be famous, and remembered.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:51 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:58 pm He doesn’t seem even close to breaking unfortunately.

According to meidastouch, he's moments from a mental breakdown. Any moment now.

But even without that hyperbole, it's clear to me that he's suffering, and that has to be good enough, for now.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:58 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:46 pm I think at some point we need to come to terms with the fact that if we ever hope to hold Trump accountable for his crimes, it is absolutely going to come with a mother-fucking-shitstorm-freakout-call-to-arms like we have never seen before.

Let's understand that's part of what this will inevitably include.

And accept it. Rule of law applies to everyone, even those who threaten violence. Especially those who do. If drumpf suffering consequences for his actions results in violence, so be it. Freedom isn't free, is my understanding. That applies to many different scenarios.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:41 pm

Gah, starting to lean “take it as far as he can to unleash the hordes” vs ‘just can’t keep trap shut’:

“Former President Donald Trump has continued to attack the judge overseeing the civil fraud trial against him and the Trump Organization, criticizing Manhattan Judge Arthur Engoron on Truth Social multiple times Thursday, even after the judge imposed a gag order to prevent the ex-president from attacking court staff.”

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 9:53 am

Does he believe that somehow this is personal for the judge and another judge won't be assigned and step in without hesitation (but with protection now, assuming something happens to the previous one)?

This is idiotic. If his judge died from a heart attack, car accident, or murder, drumpf's still on the hook.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 2:58 pm

If it wasn't personal before, well, he's certainly made it personal now with his continued attacks. And he's only making things worse for himself.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:07 pm

Do people really think his attacks are going to affect a judge's decisions?

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:19 pm

What's frustrating is that if any of us kept spewing threats after being issued a gag order, we'd be in jail before we could turn the PC/phone off.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:27 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:19 pm What's frustrating is that if any of us kept spewing threats after being issued a gag order, we'd be in jail before we could turn the PC/phone off.

Exactly. What ARE the consequences of a defendant defying a judge's gag order? Do we even know? When will said penalties be applied in this particular douchebag's case?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:28 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:27 pm
YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:19 pm What's frustrating is that if any of us kept spewing threats after being issued a gag order, we'd be in jail before we could turn the PC/phone off.
Exactly. What ARE the consequences of a defendant defying a judge's gag order? Do we even know?

Someone saying mean things about him on CNN?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:30 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:27 pmExactly. What ARE the consequences of a defendant defying a judge's gag order? Do we even know?

Contempt of court with sanctions ranging from fines to indefinite stays in custody. I don't think the latter possibility happens much in general much less in a civil case.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:33 pm

There's also a 1st Amendment question around gag orders that would likely preclude any type of real enforcement here.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:34 pm

Ooooh, FINES!

He can probably generate any amount the highest possible fine would be in a couple days of email campaigns with his cult like base.

Rumpy · Post by **Rumpy** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:36 pm

Not to mention the flouting of the gag order only underscores the kind of character he is, and why he's in for fraud in the first place.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Oct 06, 2023 10:21 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 3:07 pm Do people really think his attacks are going to affect a judge's decisions?

Of course not. Because all judges are able to turn off their personal feelings.

I'm not disparaging judges. Many really do make an effort to ignore their own opinions and stick with the laws and precedent, and recuse when they believe that they can't be impartial. But on issues where the judge has leeway to interpret or choose, they remain human beings, subject to their feelings, even if only subconsciously.

Others, of course, will straight-out slap down someone who has annoyed them. And I can't help but think that there's something in their training that lets the defendant's attitude and behavior during the trial factor into those decisions as well.