Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord [Early Access]

[Jaymann]

Having played and loved Wizardry Labyrinth of Lost Souls, I am going to give this a spin. I am familiar with the classes and it offers stat re-roll! I am all over that. Will report back when I get a feel for the gameplay.

[LordMortis]

Wasn't that the name of the original way back when (for me on the NES, which I have laying around somewhere)

Edit: I guess it's the original just all gussied up.

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord is built directly on top of the original 1981 game's code. Although it looks all new, underneath the hood is the authentic game. You can even view the original Apple II interface as you play.

[Holman]

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord is built directly on top of the original 1981 game's code. Although it looks all new, underneath the hood is the authentic game. You can even view the original Apple II interface as you play.

Wasn't the original code about 512 KB?

[soulbringer]

Man I remember modifying the sectors on the floppy disk to get the stats I wanted way back then

[Max Peck]

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord is built directly on top of the original 1981 game's code. Although it looks all new, underneath the hood is the authentic game. You can even view the original Apple II interface as you play.

Wasn't the original code about 512 KB?

The original version on the Apple II required 48KB.

[Holman]

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord is built directly on top of the original 1981 game's code. Although it looks all new, underneath the hood is the authentic game. You can even view the original Apple II interface as you play.

Wasn't the original code about 512 KB?

The original version on the Apple II required 48KB.

But two whole floppies, though!

[Jaymann]

Well I love the character creation, as re-roll to 20 only takes a few minutes. Gameplay is as expected, but major bummer: There are no save slots available. The only way you can save is to quit to main menu, then reload the game. But when you quit it saves at that point (e.g. dead characters stay dead), you can't go back to a prior spot. I even tried manually closing the app., but no dice. It's like Honour Mode.

Verdict: I will dick around with it, but not ready for prime time.

[Hipolito]

Neat, I didn't know they remade Wiz 1!

The only Wizardry game I've played is Wiz 8, which was great. Though my understanding is that Wiz 8 is the last chapter of a trilogy (Wiz 6/7/8), so it'd be neat if they remade those games too.

Well I love the character creation, as re-roll to 20 only takes a few minutes. Gameplay is as expected, but major bummer: There are no save slots available. The only way you can save is to quit to main menu, then reload the game. But when you quit it saves at that point (e.g. dead characters stay dead), you can't go back to a prior spot. I even tried manually closing the app., but no dice. It's like Honour Mode.

I wonder if you can save scum by copying the character save file (if you can find it) to another folder. Then, if a character dies, you can quit, copy the old save back into the game folder and overwrite the new save, start the game, and hopefully it'll work. I've tried this with some games, but it doesn't always work.

[Max Peck]

Verdict: I will dick around with it, but not ready for prime time.

If they're really committed to accurately preserving the OG 45-year-old gameplay experience, that might not be something they are looking to change. Maybe they'll add a simulated disk sector editor so that you can hack the save game to rez your dead characters. It's how the game was meant to be played!

[Zarathud]

I remember this and Phantasie. Duplicate the disk so you don’t lose ALL progress (just days).

[Jaymann]

Neat, I didn't know they remade Wiz 1!

The only Wizardry game I've played is Wiz 8, which was great. Though my understanding is that Wiz 8 is the last chapter of a trilogy (Wiz 6/7/8), so it'd be neat if they remade those games too.

Well I love the character creation, as re-roll to 20 only takes a few minutes. Gameplay is as expected, but major bummer: There are no save slots available. The only way you can save is to quit to main menu, then reload the game. But when you quit it saves at that point (e.g. dead characters stay dead), you can't go back to a prior spot. I even tried manually closing the app., but no dice. It's like Honour Mode.

I wonder if you can save scum by copying the character save file (if you can find it) to another folder. Then, if a character dies, you can quit, copy the old save back into the game folder and overwrite the new save, start the game, and hopefully it'll work. I've tried this with some games, but it doesn't always work.

I read a post that you can do this, but who knows what version of the game they were talking about. A little further research indicates if you have dead party members in the dungeon you can locate them by "Inspecting" and bring them back. You have to have room in your party and would have to pay for a rez. I was better off just deleting them and starting a new party, which is now competent at level 4. At least you do not lose your gold!

[GreenGoo]

Having played and loved Wizardry Labyrinth of Lost Souls, I am going to give this a spin. I am familiar with the classes and it offers stat re-roll! I am all over that. Will report back when I get a feel for the gameplay.

This is on my wishlist. I'll pick it up at some point. I also have Wizardry Labyrinth of Lost Souls on my wishlist but never pulled the trigger.

[GreenGoo]

Well I love the character creation, as re-roll to 20 only takes a few minutes. Gameplay is as expected, but major bummer: There are no save slots available. The only way you can save is to quit to main menu, then reload the game. But when you quit it saves at that point (e.g. dead characters stay dead), you can't go back to a prior spot. I even tried manually closing the app., but no dice. It's like Honour Mode.

Verdict: I will dick around with it, but not ready for prime time.

Pretty sure this is how the original worked.

[Alefroth]

The trailer calls it the OG RPG. Shouldn't that be CRPG?

[LordMortis]

I remember this and Phantasie. Duplicate the disk so you don’t lose ALL progress (just days).

Couldn't do that with an NES cart, which is what I had. I just loved that NES saved games.

Neat, I didn't know they remade Wiz 1!

The only Wizardry game I've played is Wiz 8, which was great. Though my understanding is that Wiz 8 is the last chapter of a trilogy (Wiz 6/7/8), so it'd be neat if they remade those games too.

Well I love the character creation, as re-roll to 20 only takes a few minutes. Gameplay is as expected, but major bummer: There are no save slots available. The only way you can save is to quit to main menu, then reload the game. But when you quit it saves at that point (e.g. dead characters stay dead), you can't go back to a prior spot. I even tried manually closing the app., but no dice. It's like Honour Mode.

I wonder if you can save scum by copying the character save file (if you can find it) to another folder. Then, if a character dies, you can quit, copy the old save back into the game folder and overwrite the new save, start the game, and hopefully it'll work. I've tried this with some games, but it doesn't always work.

I assume if the new game is a skin over the old game files, then you just find that old game file folder and copy the whole think. It's a matter of kilobytes of data.

[Jaymann]

Ah, I found you can make a COPY of your game and save it to a game slot at the main menu. So if you get wiped you can always go back to that save. Das ist sehr gut.

Up to level 8 now and the game is opening up.

[Jaymann]

I remember this and Phantasie. Duplicate the disk so you don’t lose ALL progress (just days).

Couldn't do that with an NES cart, which is what I had. I just loved that NES saved games.

Neat, I didn't know they remade Wiz 1!

The only Wizardry game I've played is Wiz 8, which was great. Though my understanding is that Wiz 8 is the last chapter of a trilogy (Wiz 6/7/8), so it'd be neat if they remade those games too.

Well I love the character creation, as re-roll to 20 only takes a few minutes. Gameplay is as expected, but major bummer: There are no save slots available. The only way you can save is to quit to main menu, then reload the game. But when you quit it saves at that point (e.g. dead characters stay dead), you can't go back to a prior spot. I even tried manually closing the app., but no dice. It's like Honour Mode.

I wonder if you can save scum by copying the character save file (if you can find it) to another folder. Then, if a character dies, you can quit, copy the old save back into the game folder and overwrite the new save, start the game, and hopefully it'll work. I've tried this with some games, but it doesn't always work.

I assume if the new game is a skin over the old game files, then you just find that old game file folder and copy the whole think. It's a matter of kilobytes of data.

It is built on top of the Apple II version. There is an 'Old School" option to go back to that exact rule set.

[Jaymann]

Lord is the best class in the game so I wanted t get one ASAP. It is not even an option at character creation since the stat requirements are too high. Here is how I did it by level 7:

1. It requires a Good alignment so I rolled a good Samurai.

2. Kept rolling attributes until I got a 29. Incredibly that is still 8 points short of the Lord requirements. You can get ability points when you level up (but with a bad roll you can actually lose some).

3. Placed my new character in the back row of my level 9 party and started grinding exp.

4. Got enough exp to level, but before taking the level up I quit and saved plus made a copy of the save.

5. Took the level up. Good result = continue. Bad result = load the copy of the save.

6. Rinse and repeat until at level 7 all the stat requirements were met.

7. Re-class into a Lord. It takes that character back to level 1, but well worth it.

I am pretty sure I will eventually find some gear that is Lord only, so I will be ready.

[LordMortis]

My memory from the early 80s was Ninja were the best class in the game. But we're talking 35+ (40+?) years ago.

[Jaymann]

My memory from the early 80s was Ninja were the best class in the game. But we're talking 35+ (40+?) years ago.

I think they are also powerful but are evil only, and can't group with good. I remember a workaround in Labyrinth where you could let your good character die and leave them in the dungeon. Add an evil character before you revive them. We shall see if that works here.

[Jaymann]

Yes! I was able to get an evil character into my Good/Neutral party using this method:

Follow these steps (I'm assuming adding an Evil Ninja to a Good party but it works equally well the other way.)
1. Have your Ninja (and any other Evil chars) make his own party.
2. Go into Maze, disband the party - LShift X2 - remove members
3. Exit maze
4. Form new party of Good & Neutrals, leaving enough slots for new members
5. Go into maze, search.
6 Add new members.
7 Reorder party to the setup you want.

Lord + Ninja here I come!

[Carpet_pissr]

I’m going to get this just for the nostalgia of playing this with friends in my 7th grade school library on an Apple IIe.

But as mentioned above what I would really love to see is a remaster of Wizardry VII and/or VIII…spent many MANY hours with those two.

[GreenGoo]

I’m going to get this just for the nostalgia of playing this with friends in my 7th grade school library on an Apple IIe.

Same.

[Jaymann]

I have reached the bottom level of the dungeon, which is fairly easy once you unlock the second elevator. The monsters vary wildly from super easy, barely an inconvenience to extremely difficult with one-shot kills and level drain. But I have found one very sweet named item:

Spoiler:

A thieves' dagger, which you can equip to instantly become a Ninja. I was still 4 stat points short at level 13 so I gave it a shot. It destroys the weapon, but you do not have to revert back to level 1! Well worth it.

I got a scare when when I opened a chest and was teleported to the door leading to the final boss with no way to back out. Fortunately I was able to cast a spell to teleport me to a higher floor. Good times.

[sgoldj]

Can you still roll a Bishop and Identify 9?

I played all of the Wizardry and was a play tester on Wiz 8.

As tempting as it is - I think I will leave this to my memories.

[Jaymann]

Can you still roll a Bishop and Identify 9?

I played all of the Wizardry and was a play tester on Wiz 8.

As tempting as it is - I think I will leave this to my memories.

I was swapping a pre-made Bishop in and out to identify. In Labyrinth of Lost Souls you can use a bow or a spear to do physical damage from the back row. Those don't exist in Proving Grounds, so I rolled a Bishop to cast from the back. My party consists of:

Samurai Lord Ninja
Priest Mage Bishop

[Jaymann]

I beat the final boss in EA without any uber items with a party of level 15/14/13. I think there will be further to explore after EA.

Spoiler:

Oddly, there were no items for beating him, just a big slug of exp. Not much point in more farming unless my save will carry over to the full release.

[Jolor]

Any thoughts on how Proving Ground compares to Lost Souls? I did not enjoy my time with the Lost Souls game but enjoyed Wizardry 8.

[GreenGoo]

I would assume they are the same game, with minor mechanical differences. Both are based on the original code, I believe.

In any case, they are both designed to recreate the original Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord.

edit: Oh, I see you're your actual question is "would you like Proving Grounds if you didn't like Lost Souls"

It seems unlikely to me. Did you like the original bard's tale(s) or their remakes?

[Jolor]

I did like The Bard's Tale games though I only played the remakes. The originals of these games fell into the period where I was not playing games so did not experience them.

[GreenGoo]

I did like The Bard's Tale games though I only played the remakes. The originals of these games fell into the period where I was not playing games so did not experience them.

Well then it gets tougher to make a decision. The Bard's Tale(s) were all spiritual...not sequels exactly, but certainly gameplay clones with slightly more modern takes than the original Wizardry Trilogy. But they were the same game in terms of mechanics.

I can't imagine you enjoying Proving Grounds remake if you didn't like Lost Souls, but who knows. Depends why you didn't like it, I guess.

[Jolor]

Fair enough Was wondering if anyone had played Lost Souls and could compare to Proving Grounds but I appreciate the answer and apologize for my lousy phrasing

[GreenGoo]

Fair enough Was wondering if anyone had played Lost Souls and could compare to Proving Grounds but I appreciate the answer and apologize for my lousy phrasing

I get that I'm not an authority on either game, but I was hoping to spur some discussion by responding. Maybe I should be more patient

[Jaymann]

Fair enough Was wondering if anyone had played Lost Souls and could compare to Proving Grounds but I appreciate the answer and apologize for my lousy phrasing

I have played both and prefer Lost Souls a bit. It has save anywhere, and the dungeon is more extensive.

[Jolor]

@GreenGoo Patience be damned! This is the internet, sir!

@Jaymann Thanks. It sounds like I will hold off and not pull the trigger on this.