Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:49 am**

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/franci ... iner-ship/

Part of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore collapsed early Tuesday after being hit by a large container ship, sending cars into the Patapsco River, authorities said.

The Baltimore City Fire Department told CBS News that at about 1:30 a.m., 911 calls started coming in saying a vessel hit a bridge column. It was unclear how many vehicles were on the span but "there was surely a large tractor-trailer" on it.

"There are at least seven people" in the river, and "the dive and rescue team has arrived on scene to locate the individuals."

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:14 am**

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:30 am**

Shorter video of collapse:

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:56 am**

The conspiracy theories are already beginning. I guess nothing major happens these days without an alternative explanation.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:08 am**

Be interesting to hear what caused it, mechanical failure or pilot failure or...

It's not like it happens all of a sudden, there is time to do things.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:23 am**

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:08 am Be interesting to hear what caused it, mechanical failure or pilot failure or...

It's not like it happens all of a sudden, there is time to do things.

The ship appears to lose power multiple times before striking the bridge, so that undoubtedly played a major role.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:42 am**

Wow, I thought when I read the news that it had just been too large and the top of the ship hit a section of the bridge. But it ran full on into one of the support pylons (or whatever they call them).

That's just horrific.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:45 am**

pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:23 am
Lassr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:08 am Be interesting to hear what caused it, mechanical failure or pilot failure or...

It's not like it happens all of a sudden, there is time to do things.
The ship appears to lose power multiple times before striking the bridge, so that undoubtedly played a major role.

Yeah, I saw that - I wondered if they were trying to re-boot the boat or what?

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:52 am**

I'm also hearing that this bridge was designed without any barriers built around the support pylons.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:57 am**

A major bridge for the Baltimore area. Been over it dozens of times - used to travel it daily. Connects the beltway across the harbor. Ship apparently lost power and propulsion. Shuts down the harbor and shipping. Many trucks can't take the tunnels as an alternative (hazardous cargo/height) so that will play havoc with the highways.

Incredibly sad for the victims - construction workers were on the bridge at the time. Can only imagine how much worse a disaster this would have been if it happened during the day.

Tough to wrap my head around.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:22 am**

Last I heard 7 people are missing.

Did they close the bridge down before it hit?

Why no tug boats in the picture if they were having problems? I would of thought they would always have tug boats on standby.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:29 am**

I'm guessing it happened too quickly? Although I know the video doesn't seem to relay that urgency, I'm guessing this happened way too fast for any coordinated prevention.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:12 am**

Gov. Wes Moore confirms that the ship's crew issued a mayday and communicated they were experiencing a power issue, enabling transportation officials to halt traffic over the bridge. "These people are heroes. They saved lives last night," Moore said.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:49 am**

Who are heroes? The crew for issuing a mayday when they lost power?

Gah. That word...it's overused.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:54 am**

With all the implications on social media that this is a terrorist attack or an intentional collision or that the crew didn't know what they were doing, I think it's just a soundbite to suggest that no, they didn't intentionally slam into the bridge and in fact radioed the harbormaster that a collision was possible, allowing them to close the bridge. This event is unthinkable and there's already people presumed dead, but it could have been much, much worse. Is having the presence of mind during a crisis to radio someone that can stop more people from dying heroic? Apparently that's up for debate.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:57 am**

Call it what you want but it was quick thinking and the right thing to do. Terrible tragedy and I hope some survived.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:59 am**

Jaymann wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 11:57 am it was quick thinking and the right thing to do. Terrible tragedy and I hope some survived.

Completely agree.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:45 pm**

UsulofDoom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:22 am Last I heard 7 people are missing. Did they close the bridge down before it hit?

Why no tug boats in the picture if they were having problems? I would of thought they would always have tug boats on standby.

1). They were able to close the bridge due to SOS from what I read.
2). Why would they have tugs on standby for a one in a million accident? Are you going to pay crews for a couple of tugs for 24 a day? That’s a lot of money. And tugs do you no good if the accident is sudden as this one apparently was.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:49 pm**

Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:56 am The conspiracy theories are already beginning. I guess nothing major happens these days without an alternative explanation.

Like I said:

I’m convinced that modern people are just as stupid and ignorant as we think the ancients were. Rather than relying superstition to explain things, we are subject to conspiracies, making up reasons for events that just have normal explanations..

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:52 pm**

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:54 pm**

Barometer is the 13th largest port in the U.S, so this is not going to be good for the economy of Baltimore or the U.S. Could result in inflationary pressures.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:15 pm**

Those of us older people in Florida are reminded of the parallels with the collapse of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge in 1980.

Speaking as the son of a harbor pilot and someone who has actually worked on tugboats

, having tugboats on standby would have been expensive and pointless. It takes time to get a tug engine warmed up and the tug underway and to the location. One instead might wonder why the ship didn't have the ability to drop an anchor or anchors to arrest it's forward progress.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:18 pm**

Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:45 pm
UsulofDoom wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:22 am Last I heard 7 people are missing. Did they close the bridge down before it hit?

Why no tug boats in the picture if they were having problems? I would of thought they would always have tug boats on standby.
1). They were able to close the bridge due to SOS from what I read.
2). Why would they have tugs on standby for a one in a million accident? Are you going to pay crews for a couple of tugs for 24 a day? That’s a lot of money. And tugs do you no good if the accident is sudden as this one apparently was.

My understanding from what little I know about maritime port operations is that the ship would have been assigned a pilot from the local harbor to guide it. Pilots become the ship's captain when negotiating the harbor. I heard this one got two pilots. I would assume that if a tug was needed, they would have determined that when they assigned the pilots.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:28 pm**

Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:49 pm I’m convinced that modern people are just as stupid and ignorant as we think the ancients were.

Nah. I'm convinced the average person is much dumber and more ignorant than we think the ancients were.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:41 pm**

Ancient people got their news from limited sources. Now I have to sift through so many it's ridiculous. I mean, how am I supposed to figure out what's right and what's wrong when I'm listening to a podcast by a guy who calls his show The Adrenochrome Avenger and is telling me that JFK Junior is alive and well and living in an RV on the fourth moon of Jupiter? We're only human, damn it!

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:43 pm**

Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:54 pm Barometer is the 13th largest port in the U.S, so this is not going to be good for the economy of Baltimore or the U.S. Could result in inflationary pressures.

and then there's this:

The fact that this bridge is the only designated HAZMAT route in and out of the city is going to be a much bigger deal than people would think.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:39 pm**

TIL that allision is a word.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:46 pm**

Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:52 am I'm also hearing that this bridge was designed without any barriers built around the support pylons.

What kind of barriers can stop an out of control barge of that size? Do many bridges on the Mississippi have such protection?

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:54 pm**

Customers from the East Coast to the Midwest could see costly impact from Baltimore bridge collapse

In a statement released after the bridge collapsed early Tuesday, the American Trucking Association estimated some 4,900 trucks per day carrying an annual average of $28 billion worth of goods would have to be re-rerouted — at a cost to shippers and ultimately consumers.

“The Key Bridge and Port of Baltimore are critical components of our nation’s infrastructure and supply chain," the association said. "Aside from the obvious tragedy, this incident will have significant and long-lasting impacts on the region."
It noted the greatest impact is likely to be on shipments of hazardous materials, like diesel fuel, which are not allowed to be brought through tunnels.

The closure, the association said, will "add significant cost in time, fuel and delays for trucks traveling through the region, on top of the disruption that a closure of the Port of Baltimore will inflict on our economy."
...
Baltimore is the largest entry point in the U.S. for large agriculture and construction equipment like tractors, farming combines, fork lifts, bulldozers and heavy-duty trucks that are bound for the Midwest, according to DAT Freight and Analytics, a freight-exchange service.

Any disruption to agriculture and construction equipment shipments would come at a particularly bad time as Midwest farmers have begun to plant this year’s crops, while construction picks up in colder climates as the ground begins to thaw, said Dean Croke, principal analyst with DAT.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:08 pm**

Great, more Bidenflation.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:13 pm**

Alefroth wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:08 pm Great, more Bidenflation.

I was keeping that to myself, being R&P and all but boy was I thinking it.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:17 pm**

McNutt wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:46 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:52 am I'm also hearing that this bridge was designed without any barriers built around the support pylons.
What kind of barriers can stop an out of control barge of that size? Do many bridges on the Mississippi have such protection?

It wasn't a barge, it was a container ship, MV Dali.

Code: Select all

Class and type	Neopanamax container ship
Tonnage	

    95,128 GT
    52,150 NT
    116,851 DWT

Length	299.92 m (984 ft 0 in)
Beam	48.2 m (158 ft 2 in)
Draught	15.03 m (49 ft 4 in)
Depth	24.8 m (81 ft 4 in)
Installed power	MAN-B&W 9S90ME-C9.2; 41,480 kW (55,630 hp)
Propulsion	Single shaft; fixed pitch propeller
Speed	22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph)
Capacity	9,971 TEU

I can't find information on whether the Dali had a bow thruster, but if the ship lost power the bow thruster would probably not have been useful anyway. These ships are very unmaneuverable anyway. I don't know the layout of the port where the accident occurred but since tugs weren't required it would seem that it was judged by the Coast Guard that under normal circumstances they weren't needed.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:18 pm**

Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:52 am I'm also hearing that this bridge was designed without any barriers built around the support pylons.

I don't think there's a barrier that would be effective against a cargo ship this size.

In addition to the (giagntic) port and HAZMAT implications already mentioned--this bridge handled 11.5M vehicles/year. That's 31,500 vehicles/day that will have to use alternate roadways for the next <insert number of years here>.

This is going to suck, in myriad ways, for a ton of people for years.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:16 pm**

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:13 pm
Alefroth wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:08 pm Great, more Bidenflation.
I was keeping that to myself, being R&P and all but boy was I thinking it.

Oops, I forget sometimes.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:17 pm**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:18 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:52 am I'm also hearing that this bridge was designed without any barriers built around the support pylons.
I don't think there's a barrier that would be effective against a cargo ship this size.

Actually when the Sunshine Skyway Bridge in St Petersburg FL was replaced after the old bridge was hit by a ship, the new design includes massive concrete "dolphins" and barriers to protect the bridge against an out of control ship. It is possible to protect a bridge, but it costs money.

UPDATE: Image of the new bridge in the background with all the protective measures:

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:23 pm**

From my very reliable sources (i.e., randos on Twitter and Bluesky) the measures on the Florida bridge wouldn't have done anything for a cargo ship of this size and weight.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:32 pm**

Grifman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 12:49 pm I’m convinced that modern people are just as stupid and ignorant as we think the ancients were. Rather than relying superstition to explain things, we are subject to conspiracies, making up reasons for events that just have normal explanations..

If you're referring to this dipshit, that's an awfully generous take. He's obviously trying to use this to score political points against the liberals for their overly aggressive COVID response. At least with a conspiracy, someone actually believes in the conspiracy as the cause of the event. Off-mic, this guy probably laughs at what he said during the interview.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:33 pm**

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:23 pm From my very reliable sources (i.e., randos on Twitter and Bluesky) the measures on the Florida bridge wouldn't have done anything for a cargo ship of this size and weight.

Well, there's no such thing as perfect protection, but certainly the measures on the new bridge would provide a high degree of protection. As to the "sources", well, I'd have to see the scenario parameters. Speed is important, obviously, but impact angle too.

I'm sure we'll see the media and the politicians turn this into a crusade. Of course, I'd like to see if someone like the local Baltimore Sun identified this as a potential hazard in their investigative reporting before the accident occurred.

I'd love to have stock in tugboat companies right now, as I see the government immediately start a crash program to require tug escorts for all ships arriving and departing ports that have vulnerable bridges or other structures.

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:39 pm**

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 4:17 pm
Zaxxon wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 3:18 pm
Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:52 am I'm also hearing that this bridge was designed without any barriers built around the support pylons.
I don't think there's a barrier that would be effective against a cargo ship this size.
Actually when the Sunshine Skyway Bridge in St Petersburg FL was replaced after the old bridge was hit by a ship, the new design includes massive concrete "dolphins" and barriers to protect the bridge against an out of control ship. It is possible to protect a bridge, but it costs money.

UPDATE: Image of the new bridge in the background with all the protective measures:

The new Sunshine Skyway will fall down someday just from it's bad design decisions. No ship strike required this time. Corroded tensioning cables that they "solved" by just pumping the uprights full of concrete. I wonder if they even added any steel?

I think they just wanted to rename the bridge in Baltimore without causing a fuss.

I wonder if those poor fellows were the entire pothole filling crew for the whole eastern seaboard?

Posted: **Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:08 pm**

Opening day is scheduled for Thursday at Camden. And of course, it's against the Anaheim Angels, who bring their own set of problems.

Octopus Overlords

[News] Baltimore Key Bridge Accident

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