The West Wing 10/27 - MAJOR SPOILER!

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:51 pm

Seriously... it's major.

I'm not pleased at all about the prospect of The West Wing continuing without Leo McGarry. What an awful way for his character to go! I was really hoping they'd get the show back on track this year but I'm already completely disenchanted with the new season.

What's the verdict?

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:57 pm

I particularly liked the part where CJ proudly announced they would be serving the guests -- including the Israeli delegation -- Maryland crab cakes.

I suppose not all Israelis keep Kosher. But still.

Post by **godhugh** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:26 pm

He's not gone. If you saw the preview last week (the one for the whole season) you could see a scene where he was in the White House turning in his resignation.

Now, I'm not 100% sure, but I just rewatched it on Tivo so I'd say 99% sure

.

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:31 pm

I'm gonna be fascinated to see how they pull that one off, since he sure as hell looked pretty dead to me...

- Ash

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:03 pm

Godhugh, I'm pretty sure that was Toby turning in his letter of resignation in the scenes from Next Time On the West Wing.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:21 pm

Holy shit! I haven't kept up with the West Wing at all. What happened to him? I really liked his character.

Post by **godhugh** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 10:28 pm

Hrm, I could have sworn I saw him in there. I'll have to go back and watch it again.

I hope they didn't kill of Leo

.

kathode · Post by **kathode** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:27 pm

Yeah it was Toby who was turning in his resignation in the promos.

Didn't really go for the first half of the episode. It was a very thorough and I imagine realistic look at the real problems a Israel/Palestine peace deal probably goes through. I'm just not sure that makes for compelling television though. The second half was better though. The West Wing is all about character drama.

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:46 pm

It just felt like such a mean-spirited and ignominious end for arguably the show's most all-around likable character.

I liked the little button detail though. I'd never noticed until watching one of the DVD commentary tracks where Aaron Sorkin (or maybe Tommy Schlamme) was praising John Spencer's portrayal of Leo and remarked that he made a point of always having his blazer buttoned any time he was with President Bartlet. So when his role as Chief of Staff is kaput, off pops the button. Nice touch.

But does he have to croak all alone in the woods in physical pain, mental anguish, and utter despair? Jesus!

Pointer · Post by **Pointer** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:31 am

I am a West Wing fanatic. Seriously I have the first 3 series on DVD and have watched every episode on them at least twice. I don't have the 4th series as I just moved house and have literally no money.

I watched the first episode of series 6 having downloaded it and clicked on this link thinking that there would be no MAJOR spoilers. I cannot believe that they would kill off Leo!!!!!!! I am in shock! I am going to have to go and download this immediately.

Pointer

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:34 pm

Ugh. Count me as another poor bastard that didn't take the spoiler warning seriously. Damn.

I was planning on watching it tonight. Leo and Josh are my favorite characters. Well - now Josh is my favorite character.

Pointer · Post by **Pointer** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:59 pm

Wow, great episode. The Bartlett/McGarry relationship really went downhill in the first 2 episodes of Series 6.

The button detail was absolutely outstanding and John Spencer was amazing. I liked the way that Bartlett sacked him before he died and so now will be racked with guilt in the upcoming episodes. The real question is who will take over as COS?

Pointer

Mr. Fed · Post by **Mr. Fed** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:03 pm

I'm wondering if Jimmy Smits will be the new chief of staff. Looks like they will try to feature him prominently.

Spock's Brain · Post by **Spock's Brain** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:14 pm

I don't think Jimmy Smits is going to be the new Chief of Staff. He and Alan Alda are playing two of the Presidential candidates vying to replace Bartlett.

And yeah, I'm sad to see Leo go. First it was Mrs. Landingham, then it was Fitz, and now Leo. Damn, why don't they kill off Josh or Charlie while they're at it.

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:19 pm

Sorry, guys!

I'll edit that to MAJOR SPOILER.

Pointer · Post by **Pointer** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:31 pm

No need for an apology you had the spoiler in the thread title! I was not expecting the death of a MAJOR character though that's for sure.

I don't like the way The West Wing has gone in Series 4,5 and the first two episodes of series 6. We have lost Sam, now Leo, but also little characters here and there like Bonny and Ginger and with Sorkin gone the writing is just not as good as it used to be.

Still my favourite show on TV but it could be so much more.

Pointer

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:39 pm

BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!

Pointer · Post by **Pointer** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:44 pm

Ainsley was OK. I liked Danny Kinchanan (sp?) the reporter who CJ had a thing with. I think that they missed an opportunity to do something with the Press Secretary. CJ has been Press Secretary for 6 years now which would be some sort of record I am sure! They could have maybe swapped somebody new in every couple of years. I love the character of CJ I just don't think it is that realistic.

Mrs Landingham was great too. SIGH, the good old days of the West Wing. I might have to watch Series 1 again tomorrow!

Pointer

Post by **godhugh** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:18 pm

Ainsley and Danny absolutely ruled. I swear, they could make a whole season with just Ainsley and Sam arguing and I'd be happy

.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:21 pm

I thought the episode was interesting, but I think the subject matter is pretty constraining. I'm not sure you can have a full settlement reached, situation in the middle east improved dramatically ending. That pretty much means you're going to get a good deal of heart ache, and that's especially gut wrenching when it happens to a bunch of guys you like (and haven't they had enough crap to deal with?). I'm wondering about the direction of the show right now myself.

I didn't like Leo going in the woods, but I did like the tension between him and the president.

Ainsley and Danny absolutely ruled. I swear, they could make a whole season with just Ainsley and Sam arguing and I'd be happy

I loved the episode where she goes to some fancy function and comes back and Sam makes the "woof" comment, and the one minor staff worker get's on his case. Ainsley's rebuff to her was great.

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:21 pm

rrmorton wrote:
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!
BRING BACK AINSLEY HAYES!

Yes.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:40 pm

Man, I can't believe they had to kill him off like that. I mean, it was bad enough that he was getting canned, but did they have to kill him? Also, did it seem just a bit melodramatic that after he gets told to turn in his resignation that he shuffles off into the woods and dies? I mean, I like the symbolism of him being a remnant of the old guard who believed peace was impossible shuffling off when his time had come, but man, did it seem overwrought.

I just discovered the series on DVD over the summer, so I've only seen seasons 1 and two, a few on Bravo, and this one. So far, I don't like where the characters have gone. I really want them to stop killing off my favorites. I loved Fitz. Part of the charm was that the cast was mostly comprised of unknowns, so they could become the roles. Alda and Smits come with a whole lot of baggage. I'm a bit worried about where the series is going.

Pointer · Post by **Pointer** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 5:50 am

Peacedog wrote:I thought the episode was interesting, but I think the subject matter is pretty constraining. I'm not sure you can have a full settlement reached, situation in the middle east improved dramatically ending.

I think that the episode ended with CJ in the briefing room saying that the 3 leaders woul dhold a joint press conference in the Rose Garden stating that a tentavie peace plan had been drawn up. I don't think anyone was claiming that there would be happiness and light across the middle east.

Pointer

persself · Post by **persself** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:16 pm

One of the co-stars was on an early morning news show about a month ago to talk about the upcoming season. Included was who becomes chief of staff. I'll keep it to myself unless someone really wants to know.

Rincewind · Post by **Rincewind** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:06 pm

Leo did NOT die in the last episode.

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:26 pm

Rincewind wrote:Leo did NOT die in the last episode.

Umm... again, I'll concede that in television anything is possible, but really - how can they pull that off?

Between the obvious heart attack, the fact that said heart attack took place in the wood, the episode title (Birnam Wood, a reference to the Shakespearean line "Macbeth shall never vanquished be until /
Great Birnam wood to high Dunsinane hill / Shall come against him"), the symbolism of him losing the button, and the fact that he hadn't been found by the time the staff were leaving Camp David... he's pretty, uh, dead.

- Ash

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:56 pm

I am not convinced he is dead because when he went off into the woods by himself, he crossed a bridge and nodded to someone(most likely a body guard) and kept walking. I would not be surprised if the guard followed him after a few minutes, found him on the ground and got him back to the compound as the others were leaving.

I would not be surprised if the phone was left there as the body guard took care of Leo, not worrying about the phone. When it ended, the pone was ringing but Leo was not shown on the ground. So that could be their escape clause and it would not be very far fetched. So yeah, he is out of the position but not neccesarily dead.

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:03 pm

Well, what about that "in the wake of tragedy" line from the next week preview?

Also, that dissolve shot of Leo lying in the woods to Bartlet in close-up on the right side of the screen. Very portentious.

Plus all the stuff Ash said.

If he's not dead, I'll eat a sponge. (Or at least I'll post an old picture of me eating a sponge.)

Freezer-TPF- · Post by **Freezer-TPF-** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:06 pm

(Or at least I'll post an old picture of me eating a sponge.)

C'mon morton, only hacks use stock footage.

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:12 pm

I know, but it tasted supergross.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:15 pm

Oh he is out alright, I just don't think he is dead. Fired, heart attack, incapacitated and no longer in the position yes, dead, no.

Rincewind · Post by **Rincewind** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:24 pm

Read TVGuide.com (might have to look in the insider archives)
it clears up the issues you are asking about. Edited to remove what was not in any way a spoiler that managed to piss off tjg.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 11:32 pm

Well I sure as shit didn't want the whole goddamn show spoiled past THIS episode

WTF man, way to ruin the suspense! Jesus christ, is it too much to ask to NOT have the rest of the story line spoiled! Godamnit!

rrmorton · Post by **rrmorton** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 2:06 am

Glad I missed it, whatever it was.

Don't you just love it when people get pissy when they're the ones posting spoilers? Edit and apologize, lose the snark.

Spock's Brain · Post by **Spock's Brain** » Sun Oct 31, 2004 3:24 am

I've seen some spoilers for Leo's fate, and the next Chief of Staff which might be the ones Rincewind posted (I arrived after the edit). To be fair, if they're true, then following on from what has gone before the writers have a lot of explaining to do

Spoilers (highlight if you want to read them):

Leo resigns, but stays on as Bartlett's "trusted advisor." Frankly, at this stage, I think keeping him alive would be less of a "jumping the shark" moment than , say, having his ghost/ elements of Jeb's subconscious advise the remorseful President.

CJ becomes the next Chief of Staff. With all due respect to her character, wtf? At least it might explain Toby's apparent resignation, as featured in the promos