Anyone still playing this? Just bought and checking it out for the first time, etc? I've recently started digging back into it in an effort to "enjoy what I have", save money, and avoid buying one or more of the new games that have come out recently. Some questions for vets or whomever:
1. Regarding diplomacy, has anyone ever gotten the "map information" option to actually provide you with anything? I've traded straight up and have even paid for map information and not once have I noticed it revealing anything.
2. What skill levels have you been playing on? I'm just starting the long campaign for the first time (having dabbled with the short campaign a bit previously) as Julii on Medium/Medium and am finding myself running roughshod over the Gauls early. Is the game challenging, but beatable on the higher levels?
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Rome: Total War
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lokiju
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Re: Rome: Total War
Jow wrote:1. Regarding diplomacy, has anyone ever gotten the "map information" option to actually provide you with anything? I've traded straight up and have even paid for map information and not once have I noticed it revealing anything.
Well, to be honest, I never noticed anything either. I just sold the maps to others for big income via the diplomat.
I would say both campaign and battles should be set at Hard. If you want them knocking at your door all the time, set campaign to VH...I do this as I love playing defensive battles. I believe the AI gets big bonuses at VH though.Jow wrote:2. What skill levels have you been playing on? I'm just starting the long campaign for the first time (having dabbled with the short campaign a bit previously) as Julii on Medium/Medium and am finding myself running roughshod over the Gauls early. Is the game challenging, but beatable on the higher levels?
Man is most nearly himself when he achieves the seriousness of a child at play
Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot.
Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot.
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Jow
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I set both at hard. Now I know how the Romans felt - the number of troops the Gauls seem to be able to pump out despite extreme casualties in many battles against me is amazing. Also, money is much harder to come by. Whereas on 'medium' I was basically building whatever/whenever, at the point I'm at on 'hard' I've been spending so much on military that I can only afford to build a single new building every 3 or 4 turns.
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Jow
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The game does some strange, strange stuff on hard. I just had a monster battle vs. the Gauls as they attempted to storm a city I'd taken from them. Just before this battle, elsewhere on the map, I'd managed to take out an almost 800-man army in entirety.
They assaulted the city with 1,100 men while I defended with just shy of 600. Due to some luck from the wooden wall defensive towers (which took out one of their rams) and some aggressive use of heavy cavalry, I only allowed them to break through the wall in two places (one of them the main gate) and when they broke through and swarmed I contained it well and sent them running for the hills. They lost over 900 men in that single attack.
One or two turns later, after I repaired the wooden wall and retrained some of my much thinner ranks, I was attacked again, this time by a group of over 1,300 men. WTF? I had another sizable army on the other side of the map, so I sent them beelining through the mountain pass toward my continually besieged town. The next turn, the Gaul horde broke the siege and left for parts unknown, so I merged my second army into the force defending the town, meaning probably 90% of my entire army was now garrisoned there. I had my other 3 cities frantically cranking out troops to build a new force around them.
The 1,300+ man force then started heading for the mountain pass, making like they wanted to head back toward where most of my cities lie. Feeling confident I could deal with them, I sent my entire garrison (over 1,100 men) and engaged. Although my general was lousy (no command stars), their leader was only a captain so had no heavy cavalry at all. Once I started the map, their force appeared to consist largely of Warbands, Skirmishers, and Swordsmen along with a unit of Chosen Swordsmen.
My army consisted of a huge host of infantry (4 or 5 Hastati groups, 3 Principe groups), the general's unit, 3 squads of roman archers (with +3 weapons) and 2 units of cavalry auxilia with +3 weapons. I decided to play it out as a Roman general might have, lining the Hastati out front to take the initial charge, with the Principes behind to relieve the Hastati. The Gauls had a HUGE front line, so I took the two end Hastati groups and rotated them 45 degrees in to protect their flanks better. I had the three archer squads right behind the Hastati and the Cavalry Auxilia doubled on the right flank to harrass the Chosen Swordsman on their left flank as soon as the battle began.
The battle began as expected. I sent the cavalry flying ahead and into a Cantabrian circle and started peppering the Gaul left flank. However, for some reason, one of the two groups of calvary got too close and despite having skirmisher behavior turned on, they sat there as infantry charged up to them. Before I had a chance to even tell them to move backward, the whole unit routed and started to flee. They managed to come back under control by the time they reached my battle line, but it still ticked me off.
By this time, the Gauls were charging full bore toward the bulk of my army. I had the archers interspersed with the Hastati, trying to put some arrows into the advancing horde before they reached my lines. Again, despite having skirmishing behavior on, the archers sat there amidst the infantry until the Gauls reached the line, getting jumped and again routing almost instantly (all three squads!). I ran my general unit over in an attempt to rally them and managed to rally two of the three. Fine, except now the huge Gaul line was wrapping around me and I realized I had to throw the Principes onto the flanks quickly. Scarcely 30 seconds into the melee, with chaos erupting everywhere but none of my units being particularly overwhelmed or surrounded, my entire force routed and began to flee. Two of the three Principe units hadn't even ENTERED COMBAT and they too were white-flagging it.
I stared at this for a second dumbstruck, then as anger built I just reached out and hit the reset button.
Some thoughts:
1. From my first go-round with this game some time ago, it seemed some fights units were often notorious for routing or freaking out for absolutely no reason. Has anyone else experienced this?
2. I'm thinking the AI gets some advantages on the Hard skill level, but frankly there's not a lot more I can do to keep these guys off. The only battles I've been losing are ones where I'm forced to withdraw due to overwhelming numbers. In won battles, I generally hunt down the routers and kill them to a man, usually ending up with at least a 6-7:1 kill-to-death ratio. In spying on their cities, I often see them with four-digit income deficits, public order revolts, and more. How the hell is the AI able to afford to pump out so many guys under circumstances like those?
They assaulted the city with 1,100 men while I defended with just shy of 600. Due to some luck from the wooden wall defensive towers (which took out one of their rams) and some aggressive use of heavy cavalry, I only allowed them to break through the wall in two places (one of them the main gate) and when they broke through and swarmed I contained it well and sent them running for the hills. They lost over 900 men in that single attack.
One or two turns later, after I repaired the wooden wall and retrained some of my much thinner ranks, I was attacked again, this time by a group of over 1,300 men. WTF? I had another sizable army on the other side of the map, so I sent them beelining through the mountain pass toward my continually besieged town. The next turn, the Gaul horde broke the siege and left for parts unknown, so I merged my second army into the force defending the town, meaning probably 90% of my entire army was now garrisoned there. I had my other 3 cities frantically cranking out troops to build a new force around them.
The 1,300+ man force then started heading for the mountain pass, making like they wanted to head back toward where most of my cities lie. Feeling confident I could deal with them, I sent my entire garrison (over 1,100 men) and engaged. Although my general was lousy (no command stars), their leader was only a captain so had no heavy cavalry at all. Once I started the map, their force appeared to consist largely of Warbands, Skirmishers, and Swordsmen along with a unit of Chosen Swordsmen.
My army consisted of a huge host of infantry (4 or 5 Hastati groups, 3 Principe groups), the general's unit, 3 squads of roman archers (with +3 weapons) and 2 units of cavalry auxilia with +3 weapons. I decided to play it out as a Roman general might have, lining the Hastati out front to take the initial charge, with the Principes behind to relieve the Hastati. The Gauls had a HUGE front line, so I took the two end Hastati groups and rotated them 45 degrees in to protect their flanks better. I had the three archer squads right behind the Hastati and the Cavalry Auxilia doubled on the right flank to harrass the Chosen Swordsman on their left flank as soon as the battle began.
The battle began as expected. I sent the cavalry flying ahead and into a Cantabrian circle and started peppering the Gaul left flank. However, for some reason, one of the two groups of calvary got too close and despite having skirmisher behavior turned on, they sat there as infantry charged up to them. Before I had a chance to even tell them to move backward, the whole unit routed and started to flee. They managed to come back under control by the time they reached my battle line, but it still ticked me off.
By this time, the Gauls were charging full bore toward the bulk of my army. I had the archers interspersed with the Hastati, trying to put some arrows into the advancing horde before they reached my lines. Again, despite having skirmishing behavior on, the archers sat there amidst the infantry until the Gauls reached the line, getting jumped and again routing almost instantly (all three squads!). I ran my general unit over in an attempt to rally them and managed to rally two of the three. Fine, except now the huge Gaul line was wrapping around me and I realized I had to throw the Principes onto the flanks quickly. Scarcely 30 seconds into the melee, with chaos erupting everywhere but none of my units being particularly overwhelmed or surrounded, my entire force routed and began to flee. Two of the three Principe units hadn't even ENTERED COMBAT and they too were white-flagging it.
I stared at this for a second dumbstruck, then as anger built I just reached out and hit the reset button.
Some thoughts:
1. From my first go-round with this game some time ago, it seemed some fights units were often notorious for routing or freaking out for absolutely no reason. Has anyone else experienced this?
2. I'm thinking the AI gets some advantages on the Hard skill level, but frankly there's not a lot more I can do to keep these guys off. The only battles I've been losing are ones where I'm forced to withdraw due to overwhelming numbers. In won battles, I generally hunt down the routers and kill them to a man, usually ending up with at least a 6-7:1 kill-to-death ratio. In spying on their cities, I often see them with four-digit income deficits, public order revolts, and more. How the hell is the AI able to afford to pump out so many guys under circumstances like those?
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Jow
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Grifman
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No, units route because of morale factors. And yes, some units are notorious for routing - but it is because they intrinsically have lower morale than other units - not because of "absolutely no reason".Jow wrote:Some thoughts:
1. From my first go-round with this game some time ago, it seemed some fights units were often notorious for routing or freaking out for absolutely no reason. Has anyone else experienced this?
In your battle you experienced a chain route - once your army starts breaking, your whole army tends to collapse. You were already in trouble when your cavalry and archers routed, even though you manage to rally some. Seeing other troops run reduced the morale of the rest of your army. Secondly, getting outflanked reduces your morale even more. You should have deployed your forces in a wider line. And even with the skirmish behavior on, skirmishing units will have problems moving back through other units. You should have kept your archers behind your line or withdrawn well before the enemy got close. And the principes who routed without fighting aren't stupid - they ran because everyone else was running. No one wants to be the last to die. And lastly on "hard" difficulty level for tactical battles the AI gets a significant morale advantage. In this case that and your tactics were enough to give it the win.
Why are you complaining? You upped the difficulty level and didn't expect the AI to get some advantages? You picked "hard" - don't complain if the AI can pump out "so many guys under circumstances like those".2. I'm thinking the AI gets some advantages on the Hard skill level, but frankly there's not a lot more I can do to keep these guys off. The only battles I've been losing are ones where I'm forced to withdraw due to overwhelming numbers. In won battles, I generally hunt down the routers and kill them to a man, usually ending up with at least a 6-7:1 kill-to-death ratio. In spying on their cities, I often see them with four-digit income deficits, public order revolts, and more. How the hell is the AI able to afford to pump out so many guys under circumstances like those?
If it's too hard for you, go back to "normal" difficulty.
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Grifman
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Re: Rome: Total War
Yes, it works. But maybe you already had the information that they might have shared with you, so you saw no change.Jow wrote:Anyone still playing this? Just bought and checking it out for the first time, etc? I've recently started digging back into it in an effort to "enjoy what I have", save money, and avoid buying one or more of the new games that have come out recently. Some questions for vets or whomever:
1. Regarding diplomacy, has anyone ever gotten the "map information" option to actually provide you with anything? I've traded straight up and have even paid for map information and not once have I noticed it revealing anything.
I play normal tactical battles, hard campaign. I don't like the AI getting a morale advantage in battles because I don't think I'm that great of a tactical genius2. What skill levels have you been playing on? I'm just starting the long campaign for the first time (having dabbled with the short campaign a bit previously) as Julii on Medium/Medium and am finding myself running roughshod over the Gauls early. Is the game challenging, but beatable on the higher levels?
, but on the campaign map it needs help so I give it an advantage there.-
Jow
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I was aware of some of this stuff, but you didn't have to get semi-snotty about it. I've been playing on 'hard' for exactly 2 days with no knowledge whatsoever of the advantages the AI gets at that level, so cut me a little slack.
Playing on 'normal' for the tactical maps is an idea, but I think I'll stick with 'hard' for a little while longer cus other than this particular battle I've been having great success. Now that I've been warned, though, I know to expect them to have a significant morale advantage.
Regarding the archer rout, I guess since the rest of the line was intact I didn't think their little freakout would have much effect, since they had about 20 feet to retreat to relative safety from where they got attacked. I didn't even really intend on having the archers anywhere near the Hastati - I told them to attack the unit dead center of the Gaul line thinking that'd keep them centered without having to stray too far outside their original positioning and then went on to the cavalry. The cavalry's plight caused me to "forget" about the archers just long enough to realize they hadn't pulled back and it was all downhill from there.
I guess I'm not really complaining (yet) as much as that I'm curious what sort of advantages the AI gets on a hard campaign map. If I infiltrate 3 of their larger cities and discover a combined net income of -7500 or so as well as public order ratings below 70% in every one of those cities, I'd expect such a faction to be in deep shit. Are those advantages so stark they can survive something like that?
I've been playing on 'hard' for exactly 2 days with no knowledge whatsoever of the advantages the AI gets at that level, so cut me a little slack. Playing on 'normal' for the tactical maps is an idea, but I think I'll stick with 'hard' for a little while longer cus other than this particular battle I've been having great success. Now that I've been warned, though, I know to expect them to have a significant morale advantage.
Regarding the archer rout, I guess since the rest of the line was intact I didn't think their little freakout would have much effect, since they had about 20 feet to retreat to relative safety from where they got attacked. I didn't even really intend on having the archers anywhere near the Hastati - I told them to attack the unit dead center of the Gaul line thinking that'd keep them centered without having to stray too far outside their original positioning and then went on to the cavalry. The cavalry's plight caused me to "forget" about the archers just long enough to realize they hadn't pulled back and it was all downhill from there.
I guess I'm not really complaining (yet) as much as that I'm curious what sort of advantages the AI gets on a hard campaign map. If I infiltrate 3 of their larger cities and discover a combined net income of -7500 or so as well as public order ratings below 70% in every one of those cities, I'd expect such a faction to be in deep shit. Are those advantages so stark they can survive something like that?
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Grifman
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Jow wrote:I was aware of some of this stuff, but you didn't have to get semi-snotty about it.
Sorry, but it sounded like you were blaming the game for things you did not understand
Once you route, you route, it doesn't matter how far to safety because when you route you don't care any more - you just want to get the hell out of DodgeRegarding the archer rout, I guess since the rest of the line was intact I didn't think their little freakout would have much effect, since they had about 20 feet to retreat to relative safety from where they got attacked.
And routing troops have a tremendous impact on the morale of all other troops.Have them attack on the when attack icon is green - which means the enemy is in range - if it is red, they will move to attack since that is what you told them to do, after all.I didn't even really intend on having the archers anywhere near the Hastati - I told them to attack the unit dead center of the Gaul line thinking that'd keep them centered without having to stray too far outside their original positioning and then went on to the cavalry. The cavalry's plight caused me to "forget" about the archers just long enough to realize they hadn't pulled back and it was all downhill from there.
Obviously so, right?I guess I'm not really complaining (yet) as much as that I'm curious what sort of advantages the AI gets on a hard campaign map. If I infiltrate 3 of their larger cities and discover a combined net income of -7500 or so as well as public order ratings below 70% in every one of those cities, I'd expect such a faction to be in deep shit. Are those advantages so stark they can survive something like that?
A search on the forums at a place like Totalwar.org can give alot of detail on what the AI gets at different difficulty levels in case you are that interested.
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Jow
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Browsed a bit there and didn't find much on the AI, but there's plenty of other interesting stuff.
I restarted the campaign again, this time on hard/medium and changed my approach a bit. Last game, in an effort to keep from fighting a war on more than one front, I concentrated on the Gauls and ignored all the Senate missions involving anyone else (except for the initial one which gives you 5,000 denarii). I'm realizing that's a mistake, as blockading a single port or taking a lone settlement on an island hasn't been causing the owner to hate me for all time. Meanwhile, 15-20 turns in I've already taken 3 or 4 settlements and really have some momentum going.
I restarted the campaign again, this time on hard/medium and changed my approach a bit. Last game, in an effort to keep from fighting a war on more than one front, I concentrated on the Gauls and ignored all the Senate missions involving anyone else (except for the initial one which gives you 5,000 denarii). I'm realizing that's a mistake, as blockading a single port or taking a lone settlement on an island hasn't been causing the owner to hate me for all time. Meanwhile, 15-20 turns in I've already taken 3 or 4 settlements and really have some momentum going.