And here is why christians go too far...

[Chrisoc13]

Im as christian as anyone else, but isnt this: http://billingsgazette.com/index.php?id ... evival.inc

a bit absurd? I mean wow. Now this I think would be infringing on another's rights. Although most of the stuff they talk about isnt against the law, it still seems to be a little pushy. Especially wanting store owners to change their ways. [/code][/list][/list]

[Discalced]

Im as christian as anyone else, but doesnt http://billingsgazette.com/index.php?id ... evival.inc This a bit absurd? I mean wow. Now this I think would be infringing on other's rights. Although most of the stuff they talk about isnt against the law, it still seems to be a little pushy.

Everything's gone retarded. The right are ignorant and the left are blind, and those straddling the fence are left to wonder which - if not both - are closer along the spectrum of evolution / *zap bang poof* creation to the East African Baboon.

Eventually wearing a crucifix in public will be outlawed and the fundamentalist right will take the challenge to become real life Paladins, the one side high on weed and the other off the Left Behind series. Replace lions with prison sentences and swords with semi-automatic assault rifles, and we've found the cast for the most absurd and exciting drama the world will see in the next thirty years.

[Exodor]

I think most of what's described in that article is fine, if a bit odd. Putting a "We Believe in God. Merry Christmas" sign on your yard is a bit obnoxious but doesn't affect me a bit.

The boycotts based on rumors and lies are a bit more troubling:

In California, a group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas is boycotting Macy's and its corporate parent, Federated Department Stores, accusing them of replacing "Merry Christmas" signs with ones wishing shoppers "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays." The organization cites "the recent presidential election showing political correctness is offending millions of Americans."

Federated, for its part, says that it has no ban on such greetings and that its store divisions can advertise as they see fit and store clerks are free to wish any customer "Merry Christmas." Macy's says its ads commonly use the phrase.



But the "keep the Christ in Christmas" contingent is particularly agitated this year over what its members see as a troubling trend on Main Street:


Target stores banning Salvation Army bell ringers.

UPS drivers complaining to a free-speech group that they have been told not to wish people a "Merry Christmas" (an accusation UPS denies as "silly on its face and just not true").

Major corporations barring religious music from cubicles and renaming the office Christmas bash the "end of the year" party.

We've had the "end of the year" party debate already.

Target is perfectly within their rights to ban the SA, and it may have nothing to do with their religious connections. I suspect it has a lot more to do with bell-ringing being annoying and obnoxious.


All in all, much ado about nothing, I'd say.

[Eduardo X]

I say this isn't neccesarily a bad thing. It will help me know which stores I don't want to shop at.

[Lee]

Well as a non-Christian I think all this holiday stuff is silly. Call it Christmas for Christ's sake. You don't have to be a Christian to celebrate it. For a lot of people its about giving, taking, and family. I am pretty sick of religion in this country, it's getting to the point where I wished I lived somewhere else.

[WAW]

Of course I see where Christians are coming from, they only make up about what 95-97% of the people in this country. So they are clearly a put upon minority. How fu*king dare people not share their beliefs 100%. F ing godless and the Pagans and Jews with their nude moonlight blood drinking dance parties and anal sex songs.

[Eduardo X]

Of course I see where Christians are coming from, they only make up about what 95-97% of the people in this country. So they are clearly a put upon minority. How fu*king dare people not share their beliefs 100%. F ing godless and the Pagans and Jews with their nude moonlight blood drinking dance parties and anal sex songs.

Yeah, Might Makes Right!

[The Meal]

Of course I see where Christians are coming from, they only make up about what 95-97% of the people in this country.

The last poll I saw on this had it at 116% and counting.

~Neal

[jblank]

I think most of what's described in that article is fine, if a bit odd. Putting a "We Believe in God. Merry Christmas" sign on your yard is a bit obnoxious but doesn't affect me a bit.

The boycotts based on rumors and lies are a bit more troubling:

In California, a group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas is boycotting Macy's and its corporate parent, Federated Department Stores, accusing them of replacing "Merry Christmas" signs with ones wishing shoppers "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays." The organization cites "the recent presidential election showing political correctness is offending millions of Americans."

Federated, for its part, says that it has no ban on such greetings and that its store divisions can advertise as they see fit and store clerks are free to wish any customer "Merry Christmas." Macy's says its ads commonly use the phrase.



But the "keep the Christ in Christmas" contingent is particularly agitated this year over what its members see as a troubling trend on Main Street:


Target stores banning Salvation Army bell ringers.

UPS drivers complaining to a free-speech group that they have been told not to wish people a "Merry Christmas" (an accusation UPS denies as "silly on its face and just not true").

Major corporations barring religious music from cubicles and renaming the office Christmas bash the "end of the year" party.

We've had the "end of the year" party debate already.

Target is perfectly within their rights to ban the SA, and it may have nothing to do with their religious connections. I suspect it has a lot more to do with bell-ringing being annoying and obnoxious.


All in all, much ado about nothing, I'd say.

Not to mention its quite self-righteous. Why cant the ultra-religious types just practice their faith, without being so preachy about it? Its almost as though they cant truly celebrate Christmas without ramming religion on you. This is part of the reason I have such a problem with religion getting TOO much public influence and exposure.

[UsulofDoom]

First I don't believe in any man made religion. I do believe everony has the right to free speech to say what they want about their religion or race. They have just as much right as other groups say to only use certain stores or establisments that support their point of view. Therer are plenty of groups that look out for their own, just because a large group does not make it any different. Our we all not equal?

[Eduardo X]

First I don't believe in any man made religion. I do believe everony has the right to free speech to say what they want about their religion or race. They have just as much right as other groups say to only use certain stores or establisments that support their point of view. Therer are plenty of groups that look out for their own, just because a large group does not make it any different. Our we all not equal?

They do have the right to do this, but I still think it sucks in some ways.
They have a right to their religion, and they have the right to a boycott. I just don't like the idea that this country will get MORE Christian than it already is.

[Siphon]

Of course I see where Christians are coming from, they only make up about what 95-97% of the people in this country.

The last poll I saw on this had it at 116% and counting.

~Neal

Yeah, getting to be born again really skews the numbers.

[Eduardo X]

Interesting poll, though I assume pre-WTC Attacks.
Says less than 77% of people in the US consider themselves Christian.

[AttAdude]

I really like this part of the artical:

In California, a group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas is boycotting Macy's and its corporate parent, Federated Department Stores, accusing them of replacing "Merry Christmas" signs with ones wishing shoppers "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays." The organization cites "the recent presidential election showing political correctness is offending millions of Americans."

So not its not enough that you are allowed to bring christianity on other people by using religiously loaded works my christmas, but now they want to force you to use them too no matter what your religious slant is. To think some people still stick to thier guns and say christianity is not shoved down every ones throat like it or not, around this time of the year. Ive got no problem with religion of any type, i lump Muslims christians, satanists, wiccans and all the rest of them i one large group. those that have to give thier life to an imaginary higher power to feel secure, and thats fine. however those people should damn well keep it to thier selves. ill never understand why a person has to take something as personal as religion and make it such a huge public spectical, its just not right.

[Eduardo X]

I really like this part of the artical:

In California, a group called the Committee to Save Merry Christmas is boycotting Macy's and its corporate parent, Federated Department Stores, accusing them of replacing "Merry Christmas" signs with ones wishing shoppers "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays." The organization cites "the recent presidential election showing political correctness is offending millions of Americans."

So not its not enough that you are allowed to bring christianity on other people by using religiously loaded works my christmas, but now they want to force you to use them too no matter what your religious slant is.

Typos make me laugh.

To think some people still stick to thier guns and say christianity is not shoved down every ones throat like it or not, around this time of the year. Ive got no problem with religion of any type, i lump Muslims christians, satanists, wiccans and all the rest of them i one large group. those that have to give thier life to an imaginary higher power to feel secure, and thats fine. however those people should damn well keep it to thier selves. ill never understand why a person has to take something as personal as religion and make it such a huge public spectical, its just not right.

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

[Exodor]

however those people should damn well keep it to thier selves. ill never understand why a person has to take something as personal as religion and make it such a huge public spectical, its just not right.

Couldn't religious people say the same about self-righteous athiests?

[jblank]

however those people should damn well keep it to thier selves. ill never understand why a person has to take something as personal as religion and make it such a huge public spectical, its just not right.

Couldn't religious people say the same about self-righteous athiests?

Careful!!! He will accuse YOU of mean spiritedness.

[AttAdude]

however those people should damn well keep it to thier selves. ill never understand why a person has to take something as personal as religion and make it such a huge public spectical, its just not right.

Couldn't religious people say the same about self-righteous athiests?

Yup and they would be just about as right or wrong as i am now. The only difference between us is i see it all in an equal rights way. You see i really dont think religion has a place in public life, and that goes for advocating teh absence of religion as well. I would like to see it all stop. However these people are very one sided, as shown by this artical. they think they have this god given right to shove thier silly dogma down my throat and my wishes be damned. however at the same time they cant afford people the right to refrain from using non religious words. Boggles the mind really that you can be of both minds like that.

Jblank wrote:

Careful!!! He will accuse YOU of mean spiritedness.

Jblank kindly refrain from taking a different thread and bringing it into this one. I do belive that is frowned on here at OO if we are still following the GG COC

[jblank]

Oh Attadude lighten up. I was just commenting about some irony. Oh, and please, dont lecture me about posting etiquette. You are certainly in no position to do so.

[Exodor]

However these people are very one sided, as shown by this artical. they think they have this god given right to shove thier silly dogma down my throat and my wishes be damned. however at the same time they cant afford people the right to refrain from using non religious words.

Could you point out how the people in that article are "forcing their dogma down your throat?"

Having cashiers say "Merry Christmas" doesn't count.


They are completely within their rights to boycott business that ban their employees from saying "Merry Christmas", just as you have the right to avoid business that dare to wish you happiness. But I fail to see it as you having religion "shoved down your throat."

If the cashier at Target won't check you out until you pray together - that would count.

If the greeter at Wal*Mart forced you to kneel at a nativity scene - that counts, too.


Wishing you "Merry Christmas" is simply a friendly message of goodwill and joy, and in no way pushes religious dogma on you. If you don't like it, you're certainly free to patronize other businesses, just as these Christian nutballs are free to avoid business that fail to wish their customers a "Merry Christmas."


I know, I know.... I just can't help myself

[Fireball]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

[AttAdude]

However these people are very one sided, as shown by this artical. they think they have this god given right to shove thier silly dogma down my throat and my wishes be damned. however at the same time they cant afford people the right to refrain from using non religious words.

Could you point out how the people in that article are "forcing their dogma down your throat?"

Having cashiers say "Merry Christmas" doesn't count.


They are completely within their rights to boycott business that ban their employees from saying "Merry Christmas", just as you have the right to avoid business that dare to wish you happiness. But I fail to see it as you having religion "shoved down your throat."

If the cashier at Target won't check you out until you pray together - that would count.

If the greeter at Wal*Mart forced you to kneel at a nativity scene - that counts, too.


Wishing you "Merry Christmas" is simply a friendly message of goodwill and joy, and in no way pushes religious dogma on you. If you don't like it, you're certainly free to patronize other businesses, just as these Christian nutballs are free to avoid business that fail to wish their customers a "Merry Christmas."


I know, I know.... I just can't help myself

What is the intent of a boycott? Would it not be an effort to force a retailer to change thier ways by causing economic hardship on them? If you can admit the truth in that statment would these people not be trying to force said retailers to use thier religious terms? Furthermore if the term Christmas has no religious meaning then why are these religious nutballs (your words) trying to push it so hard? One more logic jump here. If the retailers are forced to put it up against thier wishes then would i not have to see it? Can you even argue that the intent of this whole thing is to make thier religious term more more mass exposure? Assuming of course these nutballs got thier way and every one had to use this word. That is how they are trying to push thier christian shite down my throat.


I was not really talking about the average joe that says merry christmas to me. Most of the time they dont mean it that way at all. I still dont like the word because it is a religious word no matter how you try and twist it, but intent does count for something even if its wrong. no i was talking about your nutballs doing the dogma pushing.... that is the topic here ya know.

[Eduardo X]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

But some people don't follow that part of Jesus' teachings.
I find it terribly annoying, but it is true. He said to pray hidden away, but people think it is their duty to Jesus to witness, do missionary work, etc.

[AttAdude]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

But some people don't follow that part of Jesus' teachings.
I find it terribly annoying, but it is true. He said to pray hidden away, but people think it is their duty to Jesus to witness, do missionary work, etc.

To be fair that was not a statment on public religion. that was a statment on piety and snootyness with god. No jesus was very clear on sharing the faith with the masses when he said Feed my Sheep. Christianity is definatly in part based on sharing the faith, even if i do think its wrong.

[jblank]

I dont know Attadude, it sounds as though you are lumping ALL Christians in with this bunch of radicals. For some people, it is the holiest of holy days, thats a given, but for some Christians, the vast majority I would imagine, they arent looking at Christmas as a way to convert everyone.

[jblank]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

But some people don't follow that part of Jesus' teachings.
I find it terribly annoying, but it is true. He said to pray hidden away, but people think it is their duty to Jesus to witness, do missionary work, etc.

To be fair that was not a statment on public religion. that was a statment on piety and snootyness with god. No jesus was very clear on sharing the faith with the masses when he said Feed my Sheep. Christianity is definatly in part based on sharing the faith, even if i do think its wrong.

Ya know, I dont even really mind the "sharing the faith", as long as they dont violate anyone rights. Its the fact that SOME feel the need to try to convert you or throw it in your face, that I have trouble with. Rather than just letting people observe Christmas, or say it how they wish, they choose to try to force these companies to say something, and thats my problem.

[AttAdude]

I dont know Attadude, it sounds as though you are lumping ALL Christians in with this bunch of radicals. For some people, it is the holiest of holy days, thats a given, but for some Christians, the vast majority I would imagine, they arent looking at Christmas as a way to convert everyone.

Well you can put that feeling to rest. if you look at my last post its there in black and white that in this instance im only talking about these guys and this instance. anything else would of course belong in a different thread. The only time i spoke of christans as a group was to show that despite my disdain for them, i lump them in with all religions and for what reasons. The purpose of that statment was to show that i think ALL faiths should keep it to them selves not just the jesus lovers. So now its there in black and white. Its there mostly becaus i did not want people to think that im only picking on christians.

[jblank]

Ok, well maybe I inferred something you didnt mean to imply, but it just came off the screen at me that way. I agree that there is way to much "preaching" going on to the masses, I am right there with you 100%.

[AttAdude]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

But some people don't follow that part of Jesus' teachings.
I find it terribly annoying, but it is true. He said to pray hidden away, but people think it is their duty to Jesus to witness, do missionary work, etc.

To be fair that was not a statment on public religion. that was a statment on piety and snootyness with god. No jesus was very clear on sharing the faith with the masses when he said Feed my Sheep. Christianity is definatly in part based on sharing the faith, even if i do think its wrong.

Ya know, I dont even really mind the "sharing the faith", as long as they dont violate anyone rights. Its the fact that SOME feel the need to try to convert you or throw it in your face, that I have trouble with. Rather than just letting people observe Christmas, or say it how they wish, they choose to try to force these companies to say something, and thats my problem.

That i agree with 100%. The only real question is did jesus mean it in the harmless sharing sense or the evangelical sense? i tend to think he was wanting people to try and bring others into the flock, but that may well be a question for people to argue over till jesus him self comes back for us.

[Eduardo X]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

But some people don't follow that part of Jesus' teachings.
I find it terribly annoying, but it is true. He said to pray hidden away, but people think it is their duty to Jesus to witness, do missionary work, etc.

To be fair that was not a statment on public religion. that was a statment on piety and snootyness with god. No jesus was very clear on sharing the faith with the masses when he said Feed my Sheep. Christianity is definatly in part based on sharing the faith, even if i do think its wrong.

Ya know, I dont even really mind the "sharing the faith", as long as they dont violate anyone rights. Its the fact that SOME feel the need to try to convert you or throw it in your face, that I have trouble with. Rather than just letting people observe Christmas, or say it how they wish, they choose to try to force these companies to say something, and thats my problem.

For me, it isn't an issue of rights. It is when one group feels that the other group is inferior and thus needs help that pisses me off. Missionaries try to spread the word of god because otherwise the non-christians won't go to heaven are what gets to me. It is cultural and religious imperialism and colonialism.
Of course, any person who believes in it would not agree in the slightest. To them, they are helping people understand the truth.
Its a hard concept because of this, but for this reason, anti-missionaries need to be more direct and clear.

[AttAdude]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

But some people don't follow that part of Jesus' teachings.
I find it terribly annoying, but it is true. He said to pray hidden away, but people think it is their duty to Jesus to witness, do missionary work, etc.

To be fair that was not a statment on public religion. that was a statment on piety and snootyness with god. No jesus was very clear on sharing the faith with the masses when he said Feed my Sheep. Christianity is definatly in part based on sharing the faith, even if i do think its wrong.

Ya know, I dont even really mind the "sharing the faith", as long as they dont violate anyone rights. Its the fact that SOME feel the need to try to convert you or throw it in your face, that I have trouble with. Rather than just letting people observe Christmas, or say it how they wish, they choose to try to force these companies to say something, and thats my problem.

For me, it isn't an issue of rights. It is when one group feels that the other group is inferior and thus needs help that pisses me off. Missionaries try to spread the word of god because otherwise the non-christians won't go to heaven are what gets to me. It is cultural and religious imperialism and colonialism.
Of course, any person who believes in it would not agree in the slightest. To them, they are helping people understand the truth.
Its a hard concept because of this, but for this reason, anti-missionaries need to be more direct and clear.

Yeah thats a hard thing to digest because while you and i feel like they are being better than tho is thier preaching alot of them really do feel like they are doing a good and helpful thing. All in all tho in the end they really do feel like we are inferior even if its just a your going to hell and im not level. personaly i think that is an intrinsic problem with religion, and at least contributes to the reason why religion in general has and will cause so much pain and suffereing in this world.

[Exodor]

What is the intent of a boycott? Would it not be an effort to force a retailer to change thier ways by causing economic hardship on them? If you can admit the truth in that statment would these people not be trying to force said retailers to use thier religious terms? Furthermore if the term Christmas has no religious meaning then why are these religious nutballs (your words) trying to push it so hard? One more logic jump here. If the retailers are forced to put it up against thier wishes then would i not have to see it? Can you even argue that the intent of this whole thing is to make thier religious term more more mass exposure? Assuming of course these nutballs got thier way and every one had to use this word. That is how they are trying to push thier christian shite down my throat.

So the crux of your argument is that merely hearing the words "Merry Christmas" is an attempt at religious indoctrination?

Just checking to see if I'm wasting my time here, although I have a feeling I already know the answer...

[jblank]

Good point Eduardo. That is always what has bothered me about the Christians that say Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc, are doomed to eternal hell, because they dont believe in the Christian God. Who is to say, that the Christian way is the only way? Maybe they are all wrong and we are all doomed because we arent Hindu? Or Jewish? To them, even a little baby, born in Japan, to parents that practice Buddhism, would be doomed to hell, and that just doesnt fly with me. If there is a God, to ol'Jblank here, he is not gonna let an innocent, regardless of faith, burn forever just because they never had a chance to "learn about Jesus". I dont believe he would be that vindictive.

[Chrisoc13]

To be fair you are lumping all christians together, and not realizing that there are many different sects of christian faiths. Not all christians believe everyone else is doomed to hell. I can think of at least one church whop doesnt believe only those in their religion are going to heaven. In fact it doesnt think only christians are going to heaven.

And many churches which do heavy amounts of missionary work dont do it to "save someone" as much as it is a commandment, and because they are trying to spread what they would call their happiness. I think it is unfair to lump all christians together in this "better then thou" group and it is even unfair to lump missionaries all together in that area as well. While I do agree that many christians present the attitude you portrayed I think we should realize that is a bad generalization.

This is the part of the article that got to me :

In Terrebonne Parish, La., an organization is petitioning to add "Merry Christmas" to the red-lighted "Season's Greetings" sign on the main government building and is selling yard signs that read, "We believe in God. Merry Christmas."

It seemed kind of like the opposite of that athiest sign. It just amazes me that people could see this sign being put up as ok. That is so foreign to me.

[Tareeq]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

Don't be so parochial. Ed was referring to Muslims.

[Eduardo X]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

Don't be so parochial. Ed was referring to Muslims.

I know that Judiasm isn't big on converting people. We're a "we're chosen and you're not" kind of religion. I think it is kind of funny, even.
That picture is from Uzbekistan, where my dad's dad was from!

EDIT: Derrida would love to have read my post, seeing how much 2 letters "n't", changed the meaning.
Judiasm DOESN'T convert. Sorry.

[The Mad Hatter]

While I agree that religion shouldn't be showcased, it is part of some people's religious beliefs to do so.

But it's not a Christian belief. Jesus was very clear about where he stood regarding massive public declarations of one's own piety and faithfulness.

Don't be so parochial. Ed was referring to Muslims.

Interesting source, Tareeq. Are you not telling us something?

Personally, I'm all for equal opportunity restrictions on public religious expression. Muslims can set their watches for daily prayer, and Christians can do their preaching in private. I wouldn't include having a Walmart cashier wish me "Merry Christmas" in that category, though.

[Tareeq]

I know that Judiasm is big on converting people. We're a "we're chosen and you're not" kind of religion. I think it is kind of funny, even.
That picture is from Uzbekistan, where my dad's dad was from!

Really? Odd, I've always understood Judaism is the hardest of the three Abramaic religions to which to convert. All you have to do to become a Christian is to accept Christ, and likwise for Islam to acknowledge Allah. Even conservative and reform Jews make their converts work, and don't start on the orthodox.

[AttAdude]

What is the intent of a boycott? Would it not be an effort to force a retailer to change thier ways by causing economic hardship on them? If you can admit the truth in that statment would these people not be trying to force said retailers to use thier religious terms? Furthermore if the term Christmas has no religious meaning then why are these religious nutballs (your words) trying to push it so hard? One more logic jump here. If the retailers are forced to put it up against thier wishes then would i not have to see it? Can you even argue that the intent of this whole thing is to make thier religious term more more mass exposure? Assuming of course these nutballs got thier way and every one had to use this word. That is how they are trying to push thier christian shite down my throat.

So the crux of your argument is that merely hearing the words "Merry Christmas" is an attempt at religious indoctrination?

Just checking to see if I'm wasting my time here, although I have a feeling I already know the answer...

Well i would say that the word christmas was definatly an attempt to put religious idocturnation into main stream sociaty. Considering that Christmas is mostly a collection of traditions stolen from other faiths in an effort to appease the masses, i dont see how you can even begine to argue the above point. If you feel so inclined, i would suggest you read up on the history of Christmas. Now that of course has been watered down and when used in common sociaty, is has very little if any of its orignal intent. With that in mind, i dont think hearing merry christmas has that particular connotation when im hearing it from random cheerful walmat check out girl. However when a christian group is trying to force retailers to use the term, i can only assume that the christians in question are trying to revive the historical intent of the holiday, that is the indoctination of sociaty. So the yes hearing the word as a result of them forcing people to use it would definatly be an attempt to indoctrin not only me but sociaty as a whole.

[Eduardo X]

I know that Judiasm is big on converting people. We're a "we're chosen and you're not" kind of religion. I think it is kind of funny, even.
That picture is from Uzbekistan, where my dad's dad was from!

Really? Odd, I've always understood Judaism is the hardest of the three Abramaic religions to which to convert. All you have to do to become a Christian is to accept Christ, and likwise for Islam to acknowledge Allah. Even conservative and reform Jews make their converts work, and don't start on the orthodox.

I fucked up my post. I meant isn't big.