tesla motors

[Zaxxon]

Worth it to me; YMMV.

J1772 and Tesla are the only real L2 standards and you're set for both out of the gate. I would recommend a Chargepoint account (and the app) for easy use of most non-Tesla L2 stations.

CCS and Chademo are the non-Tesla L3 standards. Chademo is dying and CCS is the clear winner for future use on eg Electrify America stations. Currently Tesla offers a Chademo adapter that's super-expensive and limited to I believe 50 kW. Hard pass for me. Rumor is there's a CCS adapter coming soonish with higher rating and much lower cost..I'll probably spring for one of those when they surface.

I'm in the same boat on FSD. I have EAP on our 3 and base AP on the X. Can add FSD for road trips as desired once it's actually working well.

[The Meal]

Amazing info! Thank you.

[malchior]

If you're interested in logging, consider TeslaFi. Not everyone is cool with giving a third-party that level of access, but it's a wonderful product IMO and has been very useful to me in analyzing our cars' data.

If you are a roll your own fan, TeslaMate is the keep the data in house alternative. There are docker containers for it that are super easy to set up.

Yes, the mats that come with the car are pretty pedestrian.

They are surprisingly chintzy for such an expensive car.

[Jaymann]

While driving yesterday I saw a Model S that still had a standard steering wheel and was envious. Then I wondered if he was envious of my yoke.

[malchior]

Worth it to me; YMMV.

J1772 and Tesla are the only real L2 standards and you're set for both out of the gate. I would recommend a Chargepoint account (and the app) for easy use of most non-Tesla L2 stations.

CCS and Chademo are the non-Tesla L3 standards. Chademo is dying and CCS is the clear winner for future use on eg Electrify America stations.

Chademo is essentially Japan only at this point. It's history.

Rumor is there's a CCS adapter coming soonish with higher rating and much lower cost..I'll probably spring for one of those when they surface.

Right it has dropped in Korea and people said it unlocked in a current version of the software but there is no domestic adapter sold yet. I'm definitely getting it. They are going to be more common than Tesla eventually by my reckoning.

I'm in the same boat on FSD. I have EAP on our 3 and base AP on the X. Can add FSD for road trips as desired once it's actually working well.

I can't even parse the value of spending $10K on it. FSD and specifically Tesla Vision is generating a surprising amount of backlash recently in some camps since Mercedes just got certified for L3 hands free driving vehicles using Lidar. Though only at commuting/stop and go low speeds. And it's included in the price of the (already very expensive) car.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, the $10k price is (currently, at least) absolutely bonkers IMO. Especially as it's non-transferable to a new car. If it was tied to me or my household then maybe as a flyer for lifetime access, betting it eventually works. For one car? GTFO.

[malchior]

Yeah, the $10k price is (currently, at least) absolutely bonkers IMO. Especially as it's non-transferable to a new car. If it was tied to me or my household then maybe as a flyer for lifetime access, betting it eventually works. For one car? GTFO.

I just heard a horror story around it too. A person reported they got into an accident in a brand new car and the insurance company refused to cover the software. So they essentially paid $10K for vaporware that they didn't even have time to wait for. Several people suggested suing the other party for the damages which is probably their only recourse. I think it's nuts as well until there is a proven product.

In another note, I think autopilot is fucking dangerous. At least the version I have in my car (which is the delivered factory release). I mentioned it had trouble with lanes earlier. I've had that problem on another road now and last night I had a massive phantom braking event on the NJ Turnpike. It essentially ensured I won't use it until I have some confidence they fixed it. I downloaded the video and considered reporting it to the NTHSA. I was driving 75 and a truck was in the lane next to me. The car threw on the brakes for absolutely no reason. I got on the gas pedal in time to stop it from the absolute worse I think but I went from 75 to 40 in the fast lane in traffic. It was a miracle I wasn't rear ended. Absurd. I 100% understand the people who just want simple cruise control.

[Zaxxon]

Gas pedal? Whazit?

That's terrifying, though. I've had a couple minor phantom braking events, but nothing like 75-40.

[malchior]

Gas pedal? Whazit?

That's terrifying, though. I've had a couple minor phantom braking events, but nothing like 75-40.

My observation having FSD visualization (beta!) on is that my version (which is pinned at v10.2 according to the weird factory version) has no idea where trucks are. You can see them skipping around in the visualization.

I had a similar one on the Garden State Parkway coming back from south Jersey but not as bad. Maybe 75 to 60 but it was accompanied by world is ending beeping. My MIL was screaming in the back seat at the top of her lungs. This isn't a one off.

Edit: FWIW I think removing radar is going to be regarded as a huge error at some point. The radar as a sanity check probably cleans up these sensing errors.

[The Meal]

I look forward to autopilot on the freeway. My daily commute is, at minimum, 40 miles (there are two sites where I could report to daily, and 90-95% of the time I work at the site 20 miles away), 17 of which are freeway or freeway-like toll road (#paradox).

Oh, and I now have a delivery target date ("subject to change" pending the vehicle's arrival): 27 December at noon, in front of my home.

Today was my first time speaking to a human at Tesla, and when I told the nice gentleman exactly that he laughingly responded "are you sure? I could be a robot." I needed him to adjust my Tesla loan terms (my trade-in vehicle's value created a meaningful credit to my account which I wanted taken out of the financed portion) and provide me some information about the lienholder (so that I could have my auto insurance company complete their paperwork). Five minutes after I hung up, I could see the adjusted loan terms reflected in my account and I had received a text message from the nice gentleman with the information my insurer needs.

I'm geared up for frustrating exchanges with this nascent corporate entity, so today was extra pleasurable in not only his irreverence but also his execution. (I'm sure my first interaction with a local service center will not be so positive.)

Four bars on my ICE vehicle's gas gauge and three more trips to the office between now and delivery day means I may be down to one more nozzle down the chute of my MINI Cooper.

[Jaymann]

I gave my four year old model 3 to my daughter, and she took it into the dealer for the first ever service. I read the brakes need to be checked every 12k miles, so it was overdue. They finished it same day for $153. With the $100 Uber credit they gave her that is a net of $53. After 4 years.

[The Meal]

I know that it’s no 360° View, but the new software allows auto blind spot cameras to kick in when using your indicator. Pretty cool. (I also know that I won’t be receiving software updates right away as a new owner, but I’m preconditioned to expect that, so NBD.)

Tonight looks to be my final trip to the gas station with my little yellow car.

[Zaxxon]

I know that it’s no 360° View, but the new software allows auto blind spot cameras to kick in when using your indicator. Pretty cool. (I also know that I won’t be receiving software updates right away as a new owner, but I’m preconditioned to expect that, so NBD.)

Indeed that is a big improvement that some (narrator: it me!) have been waiting on for quite awhile.

full[er] deets for the interested.

Tonight looks to be my final trip to the gas station with my little yellow car.

[malchior]

I got 44.6 this morning. I had a pretty buggy start to it. I heard one thing in particular was that phantom braking was significantly improved but unfortunately TACC and autopilot wouldn't activate. No steering wheel icon. After some toggling and rebooting it functions again but I wasn't able to try it in my narrow time window. I do have some reason to believe that phantom braking will be better even without testing. That is based on my observation that the FSD visualizations of trucks is much, much better.

The main improvement I can see is that (virtual) trucks generally stay in their (virtual) lanes now. My suspicion about phantom braking was that it had trouble placing big objects. And it didn't like it especially when they were oncoming. That is what a lot of videos showed and I could point at trucks and count backwards from about 5 to a phantom brake once I calibrated myself to it. In the display you'd see them jumping into the lane, turn red, and then hard brake. It should be pretty clear if it is improved or not when I get out on the road. I also noticed that it is rendering objects much further out in the field of vision. I don't know if that is just displayed or if they 'opened up the grid' so to speak and are processing more 3d space but it is a solid indication something changed.

The live view sentry is neat but not all that useful where I live. I can see myself using it on business trips to check in on the car but that's about it. I also had some really weird charging behavior post update. I'm pretty sure it was a glitch but it was saying it was charging at 240V/48A and adding 0 mi/hour with 5 hours to go. My limit is set to 80% and it was at 80%.

[Zaxxon]

I got 44.6 this morning. I had a pretty buggy start to it. I heard one thing in particular was that phantom braking was significantly improved but unfortunately TACC and autopilot wouldn't activate. No steering wheel icon. After some toggling and rebooting it functions again but I wasn't able to try it in my narrow time window. I do have some reason to believe that phantom braking will be better even without testing. That is based on my observation that the FSD visualizations of trucks is much, much better.

The main improvement I can see is that (virtual) trucks generally stay in their (virtual) lanes now. My suspicion about phantom braking was that it had trouble placing big objects. And it didn't like it especially when they were oncoming. That is what a lot of videos showed and I could point at trucks and count backwards from about 5 to a phantom brake once I calibrated myself to it. In the display you'd see them jumping into the lane, turn red, and then hard brake. It should be pretty clear if it is improved or not when I get out on the road. I also noticed that it is rendering objects much further out in the field of vision. I don't know if that is just displayed or if they 'opened up the grid' so to speak and are processing more 3d space but it is a solid indication something changed.

This all sounds like maybe teething pains on the new[ish] vehicles, all of which come without radar now. Would make sense and explain why I don't see anything like what you're describing on our cars.

The live view sentry is neat but not all that useful where I live. I can see myself using it on business trips to check in on the car but that's about it.

I used it while at an Airbnb and it was neat, but I concur--never gonna use it at home (also because I don't use Sentry at home).

I also had some really weird charging behavior post update. I'm pretty sure it was a glitch but it was saying it was charging at 240V/48A and adding 0 mi/hour with 5 hours to go. My limit is set to 80% and it was at 80%.

I've got nothing on the fact that you had 0% more charging to complete and were seeing a 5-hr estimate. In the more general case when it's cold out and/or when initially preconditioning the cabin while plugged in and charging, the estimates fluctuate a lot and can sometimes show 0 mi/hour, but in my experience it doesn't last long at all when charging at 11 kW as you were. Much more common when using low-power plugs where you're pulling 1-2 kW and the car may be using nearly all of that to warm up the battery and/or car for awhile.

Side note: change your display preference to percentage from miles--a much less stressful way to live. Then you'll see the power level on the charging screen rather than an extrapolated mi/hour guess.

[malchior]

Side note: change your display preference to percentage from miles--a much less stressful way to live. Then you'll see the power level on the charging screen rather than an extrapolated mi/hour guess.

That is how I got it and kept it that way. It freaks my wife out since she has severe range anxiety even in gas cars. She can't be below a quarter tank and would complain in my previous vehicles since I often ran tanks to empty. We took a long trip down to the Atlantic City area and she could see round trip estimating 4% back to origin (my MILs house) and started to gripe that we'd 'get stuck'. I told her it'd just route us to a Supercharger and it'd be fine. On the way back, it did exactly that and we only charged about 15 minutes to get us back to MILs and home. It ironically was a gas station (Wawa) so my first not home charge was at a gas station. :Cue price is right tuba:. That was also my first time doing that gig but I was prepared for it. The upshot is we often get into the car at 80% and I think that is a big relief to her.

We also got to show my MIL the theater which made up for the upthread mentioned phantom braking that had her screaming because the car braked hard and was beeping like the world was ending. Luckily that one occurred when no one was around. It happened right as we passed beneath an overpass. I heard that was an issue that seemingly is resolved now too.

[Zaxxon]

That is how I got it and kept it that way.

Interesting; I didn't think the charging screens gave a mi/hour estimate when set to percentage. I'll have to pay more attention.

It freaks my wife out since she has severe range anxiety even in gas cars. She can't be below a quarter tank and would complain in my previous vehicles since I often ran tanks to empty. We took a long trip down to the Atlantic City area and she could see round trip estimating 4% back to origin (my MILs house) and started to gripe that we'd 'get stuck'. I told her it'd just route us to a Supercharger and it'd be fine. On the way back, it did exactly that and we only charged about 15 minutes to get us back to MILs and home. It ironically was a gas station (Wawa) so my first not home charge was at a gas station. :Cue price is right tuba:. That was also my first time doing that gig but I was prepared for it. The upshot is we often get into the car at 80% and I think that is a big relief to her.

This bugged my wife at first, as well. Now that we've done the drill many dozens of times on road trips, she's fine seeing an 8% estimate to our next charge where initially if it was estimating < 20% she'd ask if we were gonna make it.

[malchior]

That is how I got it and kept it that way.

Interesting; I didn't think the charging screens gave a mi/hour estimate when set to percentage. I'll have to pay more attention.

The app on Android does at least. I also get it in TeslaFi/Teslamate and that is almost certainly where I was seeing it. I think they send everything in all formats in the API feed tbh.

[Zaxxon]

That is how I got it and kept it that way.

Interesting; I didn't think the charging screens gave a mi/hour estimate when set to percentage. I'll have to pay more attention.

The app on Android does at least. I also get it in TeslaFi/Teslamate and that is almost certainly where I was seeing it. I think they send everything in all formats in the API feed tbh.

Yeah, they probably added it in the recent app redesign and my old-man brain hasn't absorbed that yet. In the olden days you got either mi/hour or kW in the app; not both.

[malchior]

I might as well mention it but we'll see more in the upcoming months but one thing that's panning out is that temperatures here have been all over board from 23 degrees through 75 degrees over the month I've had the car. It's probably a little early to call it but the heat pump seems to reduce the Wh/mi hit. It is about a 10% penalty in 25-35 degree weather versus "baseline" which is 60-70. There was a decent chunk of driving in that 60-70 band to compare against at least. That's super, super impressive. I do a couple of things though. I tend to use scheduled departure and keep the car plugged in so I'm getting some battery pre-condition power from the wall.

Edit: Clarified the order of things a little.

[The Meal]

I’m planning on hitting a local supercharger (there are three about equally distant from home, each a 250 kW) within my first 100 mile shakedown/return period just to ensure SC charging works ok. I’ve watched a handful of road-trip videos to have a pretty good sense of what’s best for optimizing travel time, on-the-fly adjustments involving energy/mi consumption, and optimal arrival charge percentages. Looking forward to our first road trip!

[Zaxxon]

I’m planning on hitting a local supercharger (there are three about equally distant from home, each a 250 kW) within my first 100 mile shakedown/return period just to ensure SC charging works ok. I’ve watched a handful of road-trip videos to have a pretty good sense of what’s best for optimizing travel time, on-the-fly adjustments involving energy/mi consumption, and optimal arrival charge percentages. Looking forward to our first road trip!

Looking forward to seeing your reports.

Also, for road trip planning, let me toss out a strong recommend for A Better Routeplanner. Not needed for mainstream, interstate road trips, but if you want to get into the details, go places with no DCFC available, plan specific stops with overnight L1 charging, etc, it's very useful.

If you use the paid $5/mo option, it'll also take into account your specific vehicle's battery state, temp/wind/traffic on the route, etc. I've found that while Tesla's road-trip consumption estimates are generally very good if you drive in the vicinity of the speed limit and weather is reasonable, ABRP does a better job of giving accurate estimates when the shit hits the fan, or prevailing speeds are 88 mph, etc. If I'm ever unsure about whether I have enough juice to leave a charger and head to the next stop, I quickly check ABRP. If it says I'm good, I'm good.

Also worth mentioning that they support all sorts of EVs.

[The Meal]

I’m hoping MHS will put ABRP on her phone and with her guidance we’ll use the in car system to route us from SC to SC (to end of day destination charger). Seems to be the best use of the tech. I’m sure I’ll get good at on the fly range adjustments due to speed, weather conditions, wind velocity, cabin temperature, outside temperature, etc.

I love that free ABRP allows for destination charge targets. I’m intending to stick to the world of % rather than faux-miles.

To this old man, enforced 20-30 minute breaks every three hours sounds like an even better road trip experience than in an ICE vehicle.

[Zaxxon]

FYI, there is also a version of the ABRP site with less cruft that's designed to be able to be run on the in-car web browser. I don't often use it, but it's available if you're interested:

https://abetterrouteplanner.com/lite/

[telcta]

I might as well mention it but we'll see more in the upcoming months but one thing that's panning out is that temperatures here have been all over board from 23 degrees through 75 degrees over the month I've had the car. It's probably a little early to call it but the heat pump seems to reduce the Wh/mi hit. It is about a 10% penalty in 25-35 degree weather versus "baseline" which is 60-70.

That's good to hear. My 3 year old Model 3 saw about a 25-30% hit on my last check recently around 35 degrees with the heat at 72. I have a few places with free charging at our municipal center and library. It's nice having the heat on sitting in the car or preconditioning it before I get back. A local supermarket put in a couple chargers that are also free for up to 2 hours while you shop... very nice.

I haven't received the holiday update yet, just checked this morning. I'm waiting for the 10.7 FSD beta so maybe this latest update will be included.

I got a few 10.6.1 runs in this past week and while I still continuously get the phantom braking which is especially annoying when people are behind me, I've seen a couple positive differences in my test loop.

The car accelerates quicker when a light turns green, but only when I'm first at the light. If I'm behind another car, it still takes too long (in my opinion) to begin moving. If you have one of those lights that have pressure/magnet plates to control the lights, sometimes the light will begin to change.

I had one instance of a car in front me of making a right turn and usually my car would slow almost to a stop. This time it slowed briefly then proceeded around the car, exactly what I would do. When my wife is in the car and it does something good like that she'll say, "Biscuit!"... so now I'm saying that during my drives.

[telcta]

I’m planning on hitting a local supercharger (there are three about equally distant from home, each a 250 kW) within my first 100 mile shakedown/return period just to ensure SC charging works ok. I’ve watched a handful of road-trip videos to have a pretty good sense of what’s best for optimizing travel time, on-the-fly adjustments involving energy/mi consumption, and optimal arrival charge percentages. Looking forward to our first road trip!

I remember my first road trip to Vermont, stopped to charge and ran into a grocery store to pick up a couple things. I couldn't get over how fast the car had charged and I was getting alerts that idle fees were going to be imposed so I beat cheeks out of the store.

Are you going to name your car?

[The Meal]

As a fan of both Lou Reed and Mystery Science Theater 3000, and as a test engineer employed in the space field, having purchased a red robot car, there was but one answer: The Satellite of Love. (Plus that’s way better than The Sanguine Erg, right?)

[Zaxxon]

I dig it.

[Zaxxon]

And while I am but a fan of the space field, I'm still a little bummed that my family nixed my plans to name our first EV MECO and the 2nd one SECO...

[telcta]

As a fan of both Lou Reed and Mystery Science Theater 3000, and as a test engineer employed in the space field, having purchased a red robot car, there was but one answer: The Satellite of Love. (Plus that’s way better than The Sanguine Erg, right?)

That’s awesome.

In the not too distant future…

[The Meal]

MECO and SECO get my enthusiastic seal of approval.

[Jaymann]

Do you think Tesla would retaliate if I named my car MUSK SUCKS.

[Zaxxon]

Do you think Tesla would retaliate if I named my car MUSK SUCKS.

Don't think so, but EDISON might cause a ruckus.

[Zaxxon]

I got 44.6 this morning... I heard one thing in particular was that phantom braking was significantly improved ... I do have some reason to believe that phantom braking will be better even without testing. That is based on my observation that the FSD visualizations of trucks is much, much better.

I got 44.6 last night, and I had a ~55 mile out-and-back trip to knock out over lunch to pick up a gift. Given your comments I took a particular route where I have seen occasional phantom braking in the past. Kept AP on the whole way and no phantom events this time around. Extremely anecdotal but hopefully you're right that improvements have been made.

[malchior]

I got 44.6 this morning... I heard one thing in particular was that phantom braking was significantly improved ... I do have some reason to believe that phantom braking will be better even without testing. That is based on my observation that the FSD visualizations of trucks is much, much better.

I got 44.6 last night, and I had a ~55 mile out-and-back trip to knock out over lunch to pick up a gift. Given your comments I took a particular route where I have seen occasional phantom braking in the past. Kept AP on the whole way and no phantom events this time around. Extremely anecdotal but hopefully you're right that improvements have been made.

Several people who've had it a few days claimed it had. I went out for lunch and autopiloted on the local two lane & narrow road back towards home and had zero which is better. It does seem like they are getting closer.

[The Meal]

Have any OOwners tried out the Tidal integration yet? I’ve read associated threads on the TMC forum, and see that the first three months would run me $1/mo (so I’m a-gonna try it myself nonetheless), but I’d be willing to hear first hand experiences from fOOlks I trust. As a big time NHL fan that currently uses SiriusXM heavily for their hockey discussion (the closest thing to NHL mainstream discussion communally available in the US), I recognize that I’m already going to have to jump through Bluetooth gyrations to continue that habit when I’m motoring by myself. But if moving some hi-fi tracks to local storage for my time in the car avec passengers isn’t absolutely terrible (and from TMC discussions, that’s not a given), then maybe I go ahead in that direction as well.

It’d be nice if Tesla would just inherently allow my current streaming service, but while that’s a rampant rumor for the future, it’s not the current reality. I’ve got wireless gigabit service to my garage through my mesh system, so moving high fidelity tracks local to the car shouldn’t be too terrible (I hope…).

[Zaxxon]

I mainly use Spotify in the cars these days.

[malchior]

I want to try out Tidal but I've been using Spotify forever. It'd have to amazing to get me to switch. The one service I want the most is Audible but I get why it isn't available.

[Zaxxon]

Holiday update incoming as of a few minutes ago. (2021.44.25.2)

Release notes

For telcta and any others with FSD Beta, it's 2021.44.25.5. Beta-specific release notes:

[telcta]

Thanks. I'm still on 10.6.1 so I'll most likely leapfrog to 10.8... I'll check again tomorrow.

I saw an interesting YouTube video comparing Waymo and Tesla (FSD 10.4). I've heard of Waymo but not seen a person using the service. That was really cool, and I liked how it handled emergency vehicles at an accident site.