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Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

LordMortis wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2024 9:29 am Put in the strange situation of agreeing with Musk that he is entitled to a the $55 billion package. It was what was promised and it was promised based on the idea the investors would never pop the valuation like they did nor the numbers they agreed to were realistic. He delivered and the shareholders should pay. This is separate from the ridiculousness that he should be able to sell billions in shares and then complain that he doesn't own enough of the company.

https://apnews.com/article/elon-musk-te ... 5bd9c4c805
The board has a duty to act in the interests of the shareholders. In addition, Musk propped up sharehomder value through market manipulation and false promises.

It was a bad deal where the board wasn't working for the shareholders and Musk achieved the bullshit goals with smoke and mirrors.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Exodor »

Tesla issued a minor "recall" today (a OTA software update to increase font size of certain messages) and, well, also their cars sometimes lose steering control
Yesterday, NHTSA's ODI upgraded a preliminary evaluation (begun in July 2023) to a full investigation of the steering components fitted to model-year 2023 Models 3 and Y.

NHTSA's ODI says the problem affects up to 334,569 vehicles, which could suffer a loss of steering control. There have been 124 complaints of steering failure to NHTSA, and the agency says Tesla identified a further 2,264 customer complaints related to the problem. So far, at least one Tesla has crashed as a result of being unable to complete a right turn in an intersection.

A third of the complaints were reported to have happened at speeds below 5 mph, with the majority occurring between 5 and 35 mph and about 10 percent occurring above 35 mph (at least one complaint alleges the problem occurred at 75 mph). "A majority of allegations reported seeing a warning message, 'Steering assist reduced,' either before, during, or after the loss of steering control. A portion of drivers described their steering begin to feel 'notchy' or 'clicky' either prior to or just after the incident," NHTSA's investigation said.

NHTSA says there have been "multiple allegations of drivers blocking intersections and/or roadways," and that more than 50 Teslas had to be towed as a result of the problem. The problem appears to be related to two of the four steering rack part numbers that Tesla used for these model-year 2023 EVs. They were installed in 2,187 of the vehicles, according to the complaints.
I assume this is a different problem from the one where the wheels sometimes just fall off?
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Exodor »

Washington Post - Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first ‘Full Self-Driving’ fatality
The car’s driver-assistance software, Full Self-Driving, was struggling to navigate the mountain curves, forcing von Ohain repeatedly to yank it back on course.

“The first time it happened, I was like, ‘Is that normal?’” recalled Rossiter, who described the five-mile drive on the outskirts of Denver as “uncomfortable.” “And he was like, ‘Yeah, that happens every now and then.’”

Hours later, on the way home, the Tesla Model 3 barreled into a tree and exploded in flames, killing von Ohain, a Tesla employee and devoted fan of CEO Elon Musk. Rossiter, who survived the crash, told emergency responders that von Ohain was using an “auto-drive feature on the Tesla” that “just ran straight off the road,” according to a 911 dispatch recording obtained by The Washington Post. In a recent interview, Rossiter said he believes that von Ohain was using Full Self-Driving, which — if true — would make his death the first known fatality involving Tesla’s most advanced driver-assistance technology.

Since federal regulators began requiring automakers to report crashes involving driver-assistance systems in 2021, they have logged more than 900 in Teslas, including at least 40 that resulted in serious or fatal injuries, according to a Post analysis.

Most involved Autopilot, which is designed for use on controlled-access highways. No fatal crash has been definitively linked to the more sophisticated Full Self-Driving, which is programmed to guide the car almost anywhere, from quiet suburban roads to busy city streets.

Two years ago, a Tesla shareholder tweeted that there “has not been one accident or injury” involving Full Self-Driving, to which Musk responded: “Correct.” But if that was accurate at the time, it no longer appears to be so. A Tesla driver who caused an eight-car pileup with multiple injuries on the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge in 2022 told police he was using Full Self-Driving. And The Post has linked the technology to at least two serious crashes, including the one that killed von Ohain.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Have to break a few eggs.




By "a few," I mean "a lot." And by "eggs", I mean "humans."
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Re: tesla motors

Post by em2nought »

Tesla is bringing out their motorcycle in a cooperative effort with Ikea. :lol:

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Re: tesla motors

Post by Exodor »

The cybertruk was built to go anywhere - as long as it doesn't rain
One Cybertruck Owners Club forum member says they started noticing small orange flecks appearing on his truck after driving it in the rain for just two days.

"Just picked up my Cybertruck today," they wrote. "The advisor specifically mentioned the cybertrucks develop orange rust marks in the rain and that required the vehicle to be buffed out."

Another user noticed similar orange specks on his truck after driving it through rain in Los Angeles.

"They documented the corrosion, and told me they'll give me a call next month when the tools have arrived and they can perform the service/repair," the user wrote after taking their vehicle to their local service center. "The Cybertruck has 381 miles on it, and has spent much of the 11 days in my custody parked in front of my house."

It's worth noting, though, that Tesla does mention the possibility of corrosion in the owner's manual, in a passage that makes maintenance for the brutalist pickup sound exceedingly fussy.

"To prevent damage to the exterior, immediately remove corrosive substances (such as grease, oil, bird droppings, tree resin, dead insects, tar spots, road salt, industrial fallout, etc.)," the company's documentation reads. "Do not wait until Cybertruck is due for a complete wash."

Users are already sharing tips on how to keep their trucks shiny by referring to tried-and-true methods discovered by DeLorean owners decades ago. And others are just leaning into the limitations.

"I think as long as you don't drive it in the rain, or get it wet, it will be fine," wrote one.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Jaymann »

em2nought wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 1:03 am Tesla is bringing out their motorcycle in a cooperative effort with Ikea. :lol:

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I wonder why he is riding it side saddle.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by coopasonic »

Make fun of the cybertruck and lament the tragedy of FSD and Autopilot, but I still have a hard time imagining trading my Model 3 for anything else. I've owned ~18 other cars in my life and nothing compares. I don't think I will ever choose to drive an ICE vehicle again. Unless someone just tosses me the keys to a McLaren or something, but as a daily driver it's EV or bust for me forever.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by gbasden »

That said, there are an ever-growing number of non-Tesla EVs out there...
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Re: tesla motors

Post by coopasonic »

gbasden wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 6:14 pm That said, there are an ever-growing number of non-Tesla EVs out there...
Yeah. I bought a new Model 3 last summer. I looked at some of the other EV options and nothing matched it (for my needs) at the time. The combination of the small size sedan, performance and price all sent me back to Tesla. I was really interested in the Kia EV6 but the price and performance just weren't there at the time. I looked at the Mach E and the Hyundai. I'm curious to see what Honda comes up with. If I ever replace this car, I expect my options to have expanded significantly and to be much more competitive.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by em2nought »

Jaymann wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 5:53 pm
I wonder why he is riding it side saddle.
Presuming to know this riders pronouns? :lol:
Exodor wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 3:57 pm The cybertruk was built to go anywhere - as long as it doesn't rain
I'd embrace the rust and go for a rat rod wrap. :lol:

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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

The joke being that of course they are not riding it side-saddle.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by em2nought »

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2024 7:57 pm The joke being that of course they are not riding it side-saddle.
of course :roll:
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Re: tesla motors

Post by stessier »



I always like his reviews.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by em2nought »

It seems very DeLorean.
"Four more years!" "Pause." LMAO
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Unagi »

Just came here to share that video.
:)


Some day, that steer-by-wire will use its slow-speed setting on the highway and flip.

Also - damn, that windshield-greatsword is just crazy.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by jztemple2 »

Saw a Cybertruck today in Oviedo FL, going past me at an intersection. Smaller than I expected.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

jztemple2 wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:46 pm Saw a Cybertruck today in Oviedo FL, going past me at an intersection. Smaller than I expected.

First one that past me on the express was like that for me as well. It's look really did catch my off guard.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

Tesla Settles Fatal Autopilot Crash Lawsuit Hours Before Trial Set To Start
Tesla reached a settlement with the family of a killed Apple engineer on the evening before its highest-profile Autopilot crash trial was set to take place. Terms of the settlement were not disclosed in court filings made in state court in San Jose, California on April 8.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by jztemple2 »

The National Transportation Safety Board’s investigation found that Huang probably was distracted by a video game app on his iPhone,
Darwin?
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Re: tesla motors

Post by telcta »

Anybody brave enough to try FSD 12.x during this free month?

I've had FSD for a long time and I had stopped playing around with it in version 11. After reading some positive advancements in FSD with version 12, I jumped back into it.

Based on what I experienced in previous versions, 12.3 is pretty amazing. I drove many of my earlier routes and it performed a lot better and I felt comfortable letting it find its way (even from a parking lot). I had a few routes from my garage to a destination’s parking lot without disengaging the system.

The new automatic speed setting is probably the best thing about it. Previously, in areas where it went from 45 to 35 mph, the car slowed down way too fast and pissed off anybody behind me. And being in New England, seems like there’s zero tolerance for any type of odd behavior.

Now, the car maintains a speed that is probably 90% reasonable for me. It will in most cases exceed the speed limit which probably will change at some point in the future (similar to how it’s required to make a full stop at a stop sign which 99% of people do not do). At one point in a less populated area where the speed limit was 40 mph, the car was pushing 55 which was uncomfortable for me. I don’t know if it sensed that a car was behind me and kept going faster but 15 over the speed limit was too fast.

The car is way more aggressive than I drive (my wife loves this… every time it takes off she says, “so long suckers!”), changing lanes when the one I’m in is too slow (like jumping a cash register line when it looks shorter - think Office Space). It takes off from a red light quite quickly and when pulling out into a main road is fast and confident.

My 12.3 issues:
- Stop signs are still too slow and cautious and will usually result in someone honking at me at the busy intersections.
- Sometimes misreads the speed limit and was locked in at 10mph in a 40 mph 2 lane highway.
- Ran over a curb at a stop sign making a tight right turn. Three of four wheels have some deep road rash at this point.
- Still finds every manhole and pothole and hits them dead on.
- Damn auto wipers drives me crazy.

Highlights that amazed me:
- yielding to oncoming traffic with UPS or Postal trucks on side of road.
- Quickly moving right to prevent a collision from some asshat encroaching in my lane before I realized what was happening.
- Making a right on red onto a busy 2 lane road and quickly getting to speed.
- Sees speed bumps and slows accordingly.
- One trip not only entered a parking lot but kept going forward and pulled into a parking space and stopped. That made both of us say “wow”.
- It will start moving when a light turns green even though the car in front hasn’t started moving. It feels natural and something I would do.
- It doesn’t slow quickly when a car in front is turning off. It continues to move forward naturally.

To summarize, I’m more open to testing out this version than the previous ones. It’s good to know that during April any Tesla you see on the road could be someone trying out FSD for the first time. That scares me a tad.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

Similar thoughts to yours on FSD 12. I haven’t had it curb anything yet, and it’s definitely a step-change in capability and ‘human-ness.’ They need to up the aggressiveness on stop signs.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by The Meal »

My route to work is too congested on I-25 for comfort with FSD (now with pickles). The E-470 toll road is fine, but the off-ramp behavior puts me too far on either side of the one-lane for comfort. I do trust the FSD in stop-and-go traffic (I had a couple of days of training down in Littleton, which is clear on the far side of Denver from me). I'm happy that I got to try out this current version as a trial, but it's still too far removed from my comfort zone to consider $100/month or $6k outright. (I do have EAP, so those prices are halved from the baseline cost.) I kinda-sorta miss TACC while the car has the FSD software, but not enough to figure out how to disable FSD and re-enable the speed-control cruise control.

It's neat, but overwhelmingly I just find that I prefer driving more.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

To be clear, there’s no way I’d pay $12k. I could see subscribing for road trips, though.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by coopasonic »

...and I still don't have the balls to turn it on. After hearing people at work raving about the new version, I enabled it but it's been a couple weeks and I have yet to actually pull the... stalk.

I may be an outlier since I tend to also avoid cruise control, traffic aware or otherwise.

I hear people say it takes the stress out of driving. It does the opposite for me. It's one thing to wonder what stupid thing the other car is going to do. I don't want to wonder what stupid thing my car is going to do.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

I've probably used it for ~250 miles since 12.3 hit. My 'stress level' workaround is to avoid using it in residential neighborhoods (where it's done fine, but it's so uber-cautious that it stresses me out) and in very heavy traffic where I know I'll need lots of lane changes (where it's also done fine, but it doesn't pick exactly the moments to force lane changes that I would, which stresses me out). The number of outright dumb things it's done has been remarkably low. Though they have happened--once it tried to change lanes to the right 0.2 miles prior to a left-hand turn, etc.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by malchior »

It works much better than it did the last time I tried it but it's far, far, far away from a $12000 product. I also have slight qualms about Tesla performing this sort of experimentation out on the open roads. If this was a highway only product I'd have slightly less concern; however I tried it in local neighborhoods here in NJ and it made some significant errors. I disengaged several times because it flat out made errors that had people outright honking at me including a pretty significant error one an hour ago. That was mostly the other drivers fault but that's NJ. If you can't program the car to understand that we have shitty drivers, then we have to fall back on ourselves to do that unfortunately.

That incident was a short 1-mile trip for me to drop a check off. I thought it'd be a good chance to try it local since it was literally 3 stop signs. The stop sign behavior is as noted doesn't make too much sense. Someone leaned on the horn at one of them. As it was clear to a human that no one was around yet it took a good 15 seconds to clear the left turn. When I got to the destination it completely froze up and couldn't make a decision about the last turn. I took over but a car driving way too fast (>15 over the speed limit) came around the turn and was forced to cross the double yellow to avoid me. I thought it was going to make the turn slower than I would have taken it personally but it just opted to stop dead in the road.

It also made some significant errors even on the highway (and I reported them). The most concerning one involved the car being unable to choose a lane properly on a two-lane exit off a highway to the right. The road network there is definitely convoluted. It was previously a circle (up until 25-years ago) and they replaced it with a series of ramps, overlapping speed up and slow down lanes, etc. I've seen people get it wrong many times over the years.

However, it made a navigation error and I was able to replicate it in different traffic conditions. (Not intentionally - I just thought maybe it got confused by traffic the first time). This appears to me to be a edge case. The apparent logic of the car is it wants to get in the right lane about a mile out from a highway exit. It did so but if you pay attention to the layout (linked below if anyone is so inclined to follow along), an off-ramp to Milltown Road is added which leaves, there is a break, then an on-ramp lane adds to the right from the other direction from Milltown road (there is an overpass involved here). That on-ramp lane is intended to transition traffic onto Route 1 South and requires a merging driver to cross at least 1 lane to get into the main flow of the right lane of Route 1 South. That on ramp lane quickly becomes a off-ramp lane less than a half mile down that feeds Route 130 South and Route 171 (aka Georges Rd.) North. This is a tricky crossover point and it seems to be outside the model that the car can handle.

Ultimately when navigating this road with traffic and later with no other traffic, the car didn't know what to do and instead drove up the center line between the 2 lanes to Route 130 South bouncing from partial lane to partial lane. The first time, I took over quickly after I realized that the car wasn't changing lanes; instead it was splitting the lane and wasn't going to choose a lane. Unfortunately this is fairly risky because the ramp is marked for 50 MPH and enters into a sweeping curve to the left. An approaching vehicle could lose visuals quickly in the turn. Not acceptable.

Link to a satellite image below for reference.

At this intersection off Route 1 onto Route 130.

It also did a few other shaky lane changes on the highway. At one exit, it changed lanes at less than a car length to make the exit ramp. That one led to a general prohibition from experimenting any more while my wife is in the car. And she is a roller derby person - not exactly risk averse.

In the end, I don't even know if I'd use it on general highway trips. I found myself managing it too much. For example, the lane change behavior is just too aggressive. It does have a setting to reduce the behavior but it constantly wants to shift lanes. Especially if you run into traffic that is a tiny bit slower. If I have it set to 75 and traffic is going at 74 I don't need it to move into the left lane to overtake at 1 MPH. That's foolishness.

In the end, I liken it to having the decision-making abilities of a 17-year old with the risk tolerance of an 80-year old. It's just a bad combo for my neck of the woods.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Exodor »

The Toxic Culture at Tesla
a review by The Nation of more than 50 legal documents, government records at the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) and the National Labor Relations Board, along with interviews with workers and their lawyers, paints a picture of a company whose factory floors are stuck in another century.

Dozens of Black workers have alleged that racism is not only rampant but tolerated at the company’s factories, from menacing white-power graffiti to Black workers being shunted to the most grueling jobs with no chance of getting a promotion. At least a dozen women have described a work environment thick with sexual innuendo and complain of inappropriate touching and catcalls hurled at them daily.

Discrimination and harassment can happen on any factory floor. How a company reacts to it dictates how pervasive and severe the behavior gets and whether employees feel safe. Tesla employees who have complained about these problems say they were either ignored or retaliated against. Many didn’t think it was worth speaking up. It was, after all, many of their supervisors who were casually using the N-word and blatantly ogling women’s butts.

White-collar workers at Tesla have also complained of mistreatment. In 2016, AJ Vandermeyden, a former engineer at Tesla, sued the company for ignoring her complaints of sexual harassment and then passing her over for promotions and paying her less than male coworkers. Seven former employees have accused SpaceX, another Musk-run company, of failing to promote women and of permitting sexual harassment. Another employee, Michelle Dopak, recently sued the company for paying her less than male coworkers, refusing to promote her, and retaliating after she reported that her manager forced her into a quid pro quo sexual relationship.

In 10 legal complaints alleging sexual harassment on the floors of Tesla factories reviewed by The Nation, workers describe an environment in which women, who made up just 21 percent of Tesla’s workforce in 2020 and 17 percent of its leadership, were constantly subjected to sexually charged comments, lascivious stares, and unwanted touching. Approximately 45 other people have brought cases making similar claims.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

We were overdue for an Exodor post here.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Exodor »

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:46 pm We were overdue for an Exodor post here.
Sorry for posting Tesla news in the Tesla thread, I guess?

:roll:
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Holman »

Tesla is reported today to be laying off 10% of its workforce.

Muskophiles online are all declaring that this is somehow excellent news.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

Holman wrote: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:57 am Tesla is reported today to be laying off 10% of its workforce.

Muskophiles online are all declaring that this is somehow excellent news.
Including Drew Baglino, which is a big loss.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Normally, investors like layoffs to cut costs and increase profits during cyclical timing before increasing productivity, doing more with less during the next growing cycle. Tesla, however, is in uncharted territory for them with regard to the consumer being fickle and waiting for their growth in sales to work through the system. They've tapped out their BEV market and need to wait for their customers to cycle to their next vehicle. There isn't much more for them to grow in to in their existing markets.

Still cult of Musk, so Tesla investors gonna be Tesla investors. I wouldn't buy stock but I wouldn't bet against them either.

I still wonder what's going to happen with the older BEVs and PHEVs as their batteries weaken. I don't know how many years we are away from seeing how disposable/fixable these things really are.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by em2nought »

Here's a great way to solve the "Rusty" issues. :lol:

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Re: tesla motors

Post by Jaymann »

I had a dream about parking a mini pickup truck, but it wasn't that angular BS.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Exodor »

Tesla recalling the CyberTruk because the accelerator pedal cover can come off and get stuck with the pedal down
Tesla is recalling the new Cybertruck to fix a defective pedal pad that could cause accelerator pedals to get stuck in the depressed position, raising the risk of a crash. Specifically, when someone stomps on the accelerator, the pad can come off and get trapped in a bit of trim. That would leave the accelerator stuck in the "on" position — something that has happened at least twice.

the Tesla Cybertruck, a vehicle with an extremely unusual manufacturing process, has also faced complaints since its launch about problems with rust and potentially finger-pinching trunks.
Probably can't fix that one with an OTA update. :mrgreen:
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Z-Corn »

Sorry if anybody thinks it is off-topic but I learned a lot from this video:


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Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Probable cause documents filed against Tesla driver in fatal motorcycle collision


By Katy Wade, KIRO 7 News
April 22, 2024 at 4:03 pm PDT

SNOHOMISH COUNTY, Wash. — Probable cause documents were filed against the driver of a Tesla self-driving vehicle that hit and killed a motorcyclist in a collision the afternoon of Friday, April 19th. The collision occurred on Eastbound State Route 522 at Fales Road.

The driver was reportedly heading home from lunch and had the Tesla on autopilot while looking at his phone when the Tesla “lurched forward” into the back of 28-year-old Jeffrey Nissen’s motorcycle, pinning Nissen underneath.
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Jaymann
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Jaymann »

Was Nissen driving a Nissan?
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Smoove_B »

Musk thread? Recall thread? R&P government bad thread? I'm sharing it here:
Tesla's lousy week continues. On Tuesday, the electric car maker posted its quarterly results showing precipitous falls in sales and profitability. Today, we've learned that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is concerned that Tesla's massive recall to fix its Autopilot driver assist—which was pushed out to more than 2 million cars last December—has not actually made the system that much safer.

NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation has been scrutinizing Tesla Autopilot since August 2021, when it opened a preliminary investigation in response to a spate of Teslas crashing into parked emergency responder vehicles while operating under Autopilot.

...

NHTSA also found that Tesla's telematics system has plenty of gaps in it, despite the closely held belief among many fans of the brand that the Autopilot system is constantly recording and uploading to Tesla's servers to improve itself. Instead, it only records an accident if the airbags deploy, which NHTSA data shows only happens in 18 percent of police-reported crashes.

The agency also criticized Tesla's marketing. "Notably, the term “Autopilot” does not imply an L2 assistance feature but rather elicits the idea of drivers not being in control. This terminology may lead drivers to believe that the automation has greater capabilities than it does and invite drivers to overly trust the automation," it says.

But now, NHTSA's ODI has opened a recall query to assess whether the December fix actually made the system any safer. From the sounds of it, the agency is not convinced it did, based on additional Autopilot crashes that have happened since the recall and after testing the updated system itself.

Worryingly, the agency writes that "Tesla has stated that a portion of the remedy both requires the owner to opt in and allows a driver to readily reverse it" and wants to know why subsequent updates have addressed problems that should have been fixed with the December recall.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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