Grundbegriff's Gallows: Cassandra Crossing

[Grundbegriff]

Code: Select all

CHAINS of CUSTODY

      day01    day02    day03    day04         day05        day06   day07

FAIR  tru1cy   Zurai    Nameless Leigh/Orinoco Orinoco      Orinoco Orinoco
FOUL  Nameless Nameless Orinoco  Kraegor       UnicornPoint Kraegor UnicornPoint
FERAL Bakhtosh BadDemo  BadDemo  BadDemo       BadDemo      BadDemo Bakhtosh

QUIRE01 MrBubbles Kraegor  noxiousdog Caine   Caine        Caine   Caine
QUIRE02 rdm       Nameless Orinoco    Kraegor UnicornPoint Kraegor UnicornPoint
QUIRE03 Kelric    Kelric   Kelric     Zurai   Kelric       Kelric  Kelric

As you can see, there were 42 instances of artifact-possession (6 artifacts across seven turns) and only 7 instances of Wolfboon artifact-possession. Likewise, there was only one instance of clustering: The Foul Teeth and Quire02 ended up in the hands of Nameless on the second day and stayed together thereafter.

More stats later.

[UnicornPoint]

Whew. Good job you guys. I was nervous the whole time I had the feral teeth, but at least I knew that as long as I had them AND I didn't get targeted by the wolfboons, the number of wolfboons wouldn't grow. Still, it made me nervous. Who ended up with what?

Great game, Grund.

I stole back the Foul teeth & Quire from Kraegor again last night

[Grundbegriff]

I stole back the Foul teeth & Quire from Kraegor again last night

Yeah. You two get a room.

[rdm]

I liked the game alot. Though I still cannot stand never being able to steal. And I almost made it to the end too...darn.

[Kelric]

Who ended up with what?

I got my original Quire back. w00t.

[*]Was it fun to play under this rule set?[/i] Somewhat. I disliked the lack of PMs as I felt I was mostly just sitting around waiting for someone to say something that would give them away one way or another. Being able to hold private conversations at least gives me something to do.

[*]Was it difficult to play under this rule set?[/i] Not once I figured the basics out.

[*]What was frustrating about this rule set? [/i]No PMs, though it was my first non-PM game.

[*]What was enjoyable about this rule set? [/i]The artifacts changing hands lends it a good twist.

[*]Are any of the artifacts overpowered?
[*]Are any of the artifacts underpowered?
[*]Are any of the artifacts pointless?[/i]
All I can say is that the Feral teeth scared me witless, thinking of how the Wolves could get stronger night by night with luck.

[*]How would you change (a) Combat, (b) Haunting, (c) Wannabe Augury, (d) Searching for Quires, (e) Dysanitic Prayer, (f) Casting of Teeth, (g) Notecards, or (h) Theft?[/i]
I felt my quire was rather pointless other than simply confirming someone's role (obviously). And as we got the Profiler and Wannabe so early, I had nothing much to do the rest of the way other than ask if someone had an artifact when they were slaughtered. As for theft, I like the idea of improving the odds if the owner is out thievering and lowering them if they decide not to steal.

[Grundbegriff]

Theft Stats


75 attempts
41 candidates for success (55% good rolls)
14 successes thwarted by a lack of booty
06 successes thwarted by other players' rolls
02 successes thwarted by death
19 bootyful successes
(14 + 6 + 2 + 19 = 41)

Times targeted:
11 Kraegor
8 Zurai
7 UnicornPoint
6 Orinoco
5 Remus West
5 Padre
4 Bad Demographic
4 Chaosraven
4 Bakhtosh
3 Nameless
3 Kelric
3 Caine
3 Leigh
3 rdm
2 Lars
2 noxiousdog
1 tru1cy
1 Mr Bubbles

Times robbed:
3 Kraegor (Foul, Quire02, Quire01)
2 Nameless (Fair, Foul, Quire02)
2 Zurai (Fair, Quire03)
1 Bad Demographic (Feral)
1 Bakhtosh (Feral)
1 Chaosraven (notecard)
1 Kelric (Quire03)
1 Leigh (notecard)
1 Mr Bubbles (Quire01)
1 noxiousdog (notecard)
1 Orinoco (Foul, Quire02)
1 rdm (Quire02)
1 Remus West (notecard)
1 tru1cy (Fair)
1 UnicornPoint (Foul, Quire02)

Quires recovered
1 Kelric, through theft (unaided by augury)

Artifacts Lost through Death / Artifacts Gained through Random Redistribution
3 Nameless (slaughtered) lost Fair to Leigh (no time to try them)
Leigh (executed) lost Fair to Orinoco
noxiousdog (slaughtered) lost Quire01 to Caine

[Zurai]

I really didn't like that there were 2 seers and absolutely nothing we could do about it. There needed to be some way to permanently remove roles from the game. Compounding that fact is the fact that the two seers could reveal themselves every day and grant their information openly even at the very start of the game without fear of reprisal.

The only possible way for the wolfboons to win was to get lucky with the feral teeth multiple times, or for the seers to make REALLY bad decisions on who to investigate.

[Remus West]

I think the abundance of provable roles gave us a large edge over the 'boons. The Priest power (quires) seems to me a pretty weak power in the main but being able to prove the role of those people due to stealing from them the first round and tracing the possession of the artifacts made having an artifact very useful. I think if you were to do another thing like this maybe play with the number of artifacts and maybe start them at random among all players not just the good guys so that we could not be sure the player we stole from was not evil.

Wanted to note that I do not think it would matter if the boons started with everything since we could steal it from them and they would always be "out" at night and thus more vulnerable to theft if you went with that option.

Also you might want to combine the Feral Teeth into the other two teeth so that if you get caught with them you get turned. That way they are the hope and the terror of the innocent all at once and stealing them from a player makes them that much more scary as a target.

[Chaosraven]

Wouldn't you think the bad guys would try to go after the one with the feral teeth? To up their numbers?

As people are "verified" doesn't that lower the number of people to choose from? Increasing the odds of hitting the one with the teeth?

I think a game with just the teeth might be more fair.

[Zurai]

Wouldn't you think the bad guys would try to go after the one with the feral teeth? To up their numbers?

As people are "verified" doesn't that lower the number of people to choose from? Increasing the odds of hitting the one with the teeth?

I think a game with just the teeth might be more fair.

How does it change the odds? Anyone could have the feral teeth. This isn't a standard game where the roles don't change (except the profiler and wannabe) - the feral teeth could have changed every night. Veriification of the other teeth really doesn't help any which way with that.

[Grundbegriff]

Several people have suggested that theft be easier when someone's out and harder when someone's in. For example, if Alfie stays home (doesn't commit his own theft), then the odds of stealing from Alfie might only be 33%, whereas if Alfie attempts to steal from Betty, then the odds of stealing from Alfie might be 66%.

I like this idea; it makes theft easier as long as many try to steal, but throttles it if many try to protect their stuff.

The Quires are underpowered, though the idea of harmony is still a good one.

The Feral Teeth of Turning seem to have been the creepiest thing in the game; it would be nice to make them even more of a threat. (Ironically, Bad Demographic wait and waited for someone to steal them from her. The night Nameless finally succeeded in qualifying (without competition) to do so, the Wolfboons killed him, thus extending Bad Demographic's torment.

No PMs worked well under the more traditional (role-based rather than artifact-based) rule set that Lars managed. What would have made it work better (i.e., offer more fun, be more interesting) here?

I suspect the flavor of this game would've been rather different if the Profiler and Wannabe had been active.

[Grundbegriff]

I really didn't like that there were 2 seers and absolutely nothing we could do about it.

One possibility is to designate one player-- possibly a Wolfboon-- the Hoarder. Any artifacts this person acquires leave the game.

A variant would be to allow any Wolfboon to destroy an artifact.

[Chaosraven]

Haven't we played a game with 2 seers already?

[Grundbegriff]

Haven't we played a game with 2 seers already?

My thought was that info from the teeth wouldn't come forth so soon because they wouldn't move around so much. I thought the combination of not knowing who had 'em and having only a 50/50 shot at 'em would enable the teeth to persist in the hands of a single player across at least a few turns.

Naturally, folks would then only share what they had learned only after a theft, or would have to lie about a theft (and attract unwanted attention).

Turns out that stealing was somewhat too easy, and thus constructing a chain of custody was also somewhat too easy.

Crime scenes:

Night01
Study, Stephen Villus Aurorae(?)

Day01/Night02
Basement, on workbench (pr0ner, plied, no goods)
Grand Hall, near fireplace (setaside, bifurcated, no goods)

Day02/Night03
Kitchen/Pantry, floor and counter (UsulofDoom, kitchenware, no goods)
Dining Room/Basement (Mr Bubbles, beheaded & boned, no goods)

Day03/Night04
Grand Stairs/Basement, workbench (Lars, paralyzed & decapitated, no goods)
Grand Stairs/Grand Hall (noxiousdog, minced & decapitated, Quire01)

Day04/Night05
Flash freezer and pantry counter (Leigh, frozen and mutilated, Fair Teeth)
Flash freezer and pantry counter (tru1cy, frozen and mutilated, no goods)

Day05/Night06
Pantry, flash freezer and counter (Padre, electric knife, no goods)
Dining Room (Nameless, disemboweled and decapitated, no goods)

Day06/Night07
Pantry, flash freezer (Zurai, frozen and mutilated, Quire03)
Hidden Observation Chamber (rdm, decapitated & bludgeoned, no goods)

Day07
Grand Hall (Caine, shot through head, Quire01)

[Zurai]

I really didn't like that there were 2 seers and absolutely nothing we could do about it.

One possibility is to designate one player-- possibly a Wolfboon-- the Hoarder. Any artifacts this person acquires leave the game.

A variant would be to allow any Wolfboon to destroy an artifact.

Allowing EVERY boon to destroy artifacts would be too strong. One boon that can destroy them would be OK, I think.

[Remus West]

If one of the 'boons can destroy artifacts they should either have to use a night to do it, or only have a chance of success not automatic.

[Zurai]

If one of the 'boons can destroy artifacts they should either have to use a night to do it, or only have a chance of success not automatic.

Why? There's already a chance to fail and a night spent just getting the artifact to destroy. Adding another just makes it too useless.

[UnicornPoint]

BTW - For those who managed to survive, the Conference of the Dead is now available for your viewing pleasure.

[Leigh]

[*]Was it fun to play under this rule set?

Absolutely!

[*]Was it difficult to play under this rule set?

It was daunting, and occasionally confusing, but worth the trouble to figure it all out.

[*]What was frustrating about this rule set?

The amount of time it took to digest the rules

[*]What was enjoyable about this rule set?

The variety. The heightened need for everyone to participate.

[*]Are any of the artifacts overpowered?

Probably not.

[*]Are any of the artifacts underpowered?

The quires. Essentially, the game started with 6 masons.
I think maybe one quire is all that is needed or lose the quires altogether and make the teeth reveal potentially something about a dead player if used in harmony. So the teeth holders could ask about someone and if they all asked about the same person, they would be given the chance to ask about someone dead, a question they could submit either before or after they proved to be in harmony.

[*]Are any of the artifacts pointless?

see above

[*]How would you improve the Conference of the Dead?

hmm. probably more participation. I didn't realize that the hauntings could be decided on a majority vote.

[*]How would you change (a) Combat, (b) Haunting, (c) Wannabe Augury, (d) Searching for Quires, (e) Dysanitic Prayer, (f) Casting of Teeth, (g) Notecards, or (h) Theft?

I do like the idea of the chances for theft being lessened if a person stays in their room.

[*]Which roles would you add or subtract?

I would add a bonus/penalty clause. If a special has not participated in 12 hours, they lose a privilege for that cycle. Participation would include any in thread or directly to moderator.

[*]What other changes would you make?

see above and below

[*]What did you like least about the game?

I still hate that there is no opening evidence on day 1 to guide the group in who to lynch. I wish there was a way to change that. As anyone who is still reading this can see, I was bummed out by lack of participation from some

[*]What did you like most about the game?

Grund, you made this game awesome! Thank you so much for the time, thought and effort you put into every aspect! I love how you spun everything into a story, it was like being part of a living novel! I did miss some of the frolicking and silliness I've enjoyed in other games from the other players, but the overall atmosphere was superb!
I would also like to thank Unicornpoint for facilitating a meeting hall for the conference of the dead, I hope to see it used again and again (although not necessarily by me)
Great game, guys!

[Bakhtosh]

BD, I stole the Feral back from you (looks like we need a room too).

It was on a whim with a quickly made up number after Grund reminded me that i needed to submit a writ.

GG everyone

[Chaosraven]

BTW - For those who managed to survive, the Conference of the Dead is now available for your viewing pleasure.

Coo El.

Kinda like a warped Magic 8 Ball of Doom.

[Chaosraven]

And leigh, one of these days I will indeed learn to NOT TRUST you.

[Grundbegriff]

More trivia: an organized list of the ancillary atmospheric stuff:

Images
Image sternum, Gray's Anatomy
Image occipital bone, Gray's Anatomy
Images Skulls
Image Severed Limbs, Théodore Géricault
Images OED OED
Image stone carving with rays
Images five telling symbols
Image snake eclipse glyph
Images Tzitzimime from the Codex Magliabechiano and Itzpapalotl from the Vatican Codex
Image Saturn Consuming his Children by Francisco José de Goya y Lucientes

Writings of Stephen Villus Aurorae
~ "On the Fair Teeth of Telling", from the unpublished manuscript A Survey of Hidden Knowledge by Stephen Villus Aurorae ~
~ "On Gendered Cranial Morphology in the Periphrastica", from the unpublished manuscript A Survey of Hidden Knowledge by Stephen Villus Aurorae ~
~ "The Procreative Iconological Matrix of the Fair Teeth of Telling", excerpt from a paper found on the desk of Stephen Villus Aurorae ~
~ "Observations of an Intruder", notes on one page of a notepad found in the secret chamber of Stephen V. Aurorae ~

Writings connected to St. Dysan the Elder
~ "Stand tall among the stalks", triplet from The Prayer Book of St. Dysan the Elder ~
~ "The hands are destructive", triplet from The Prayer Book of St. Dysan the Elder ~
~ "Death in the meadow", tercet from The Prayer Book of St. Dysan the Elder ~
~ "Oh where, oh where", pastiche from A Primer on the Novitiate of the Scattered Order of Angoulême ~
~ "Glean", pastiche from A Primer on the Novitiate of the Scattered Order of Angoulême ~

Old Timey Medical Prose
~ "Sternum", from Gray's Anatomy ~
~ "Occipital bone", from Gray's Anatomy ~

Writings of the Ordo Varcolacorum
~ "Vein, winter run", verse, blood on vellum, discovered on the mantle in the Grand Hall ~
~ "Crave commit the plight", verse, blood on vellum, discovered near the meat locker in the basement ~

Literary quotes
~ dog-eared page in a weathered volume of the Aeneid lying open on a side table in the Great Room ~
~ "Remember", by Christina Rossetti, found, copied by hand, on a folded paper retrieved from the pocket of Leigh's coat ~

Web Research
~ from "The Dresden Codex Eclipse Table" in Michael J. Finley, Maya Astronomy.
Web research discovered in the Study of Stephen V. Aurorae ~
~ "Tzitzimime", in Krista, deliriumsrealm.com.
Web research discovered in the office of Stephen V. Aurorae ~
~ from "Varcolac" in Anon. (mult.), Monstropedia.
Web research discovered in a folder in the office of Stephen V. Aurorae ~

[Kelric]

BTW - For those who managed to survive, the Conference of the Dead is now available for your viewing pleasure.

I was only mentioned once. I feel deeply hurt.

[Chaosraven]

Hey I got to be suspected by both the living *and* the dead, but stayed alive the WHOLE game...

That's gotta be a first for me.

(thanx for not killin' me guys)

[Grundbegriff]

By the way....

I've woven a puzzle into Grundbegriff's Gallows: Bad Moon Rising and Grundbegriff's Gallows: Cassandra Crossing.

By my count, there are 31 levels in the best versions of the first two installments of my favorite PC game trilogy. My postings in this thread (including material from the previous game copied into this thread's first post) contain references or allusions to 23 of them.

Which series did I have in mind, and which 8 levels from those 2 games did I not reference (one way or another)?

Bonus points if you spot two different references (not mere repetition) to two of the levels!

[Kraegor]

gee, everyone all suspicious of me! you should be ashamed!! big suspect <hmph>

...so i killed off a few innocents to force discussion....old cop trick...

[noxiousdog]

Very enjoyable.

I wouldn't encourage a change in the rules, but I wouldn't oppose it either. I like the different rulesets and the the necessary change in playstyle.

I just think it's a shame that unicornpoint wasn't a boon.

[Padre]

Commenting as a Boon, I feel that the current rules-set is pretty hard on the Boons, but certainly not impossiblefor them to win with.

What I think we were unprepared for was the distinct need to lie constantly and continually about the artifacts and their chain of custody. As it was, nearly always only one person came forward whenever their artifact was stolen, making it easy to compile unrefuted custody histories, and thence gain lots of information. With more misdirection on this score I think the boons could succeed pretty well.

[LordMortis]

Commenting as a Boon, I feel that the current rules-set is pretty hard on the Boons, but certainly not impossiblefor them to win with.

What I think we were unprepared for was the distinct need to lie constantly and continually about the artifacts and their chain of custody. As it was, nearly always only one person came forward whenever their artifact was stolen, making it easy to compile unrefuted custody histories, and thence gain lots of information. With more misdirection on this score I think the boons could succeed pretty well.

I didn't pay much attention to the game, but from what I did it would seem to me that artifacts from this rule set force a level of honesty from the boons that is their own destruction either way. A bad guy must blend in. The artifacts themselves quickly should have become verifiable truth serums and concensus should get them used properly in public. Stealing should have been consensual and verifiable actions with testable results.

From the outside too much easy information gets put on the table. But then, having not really paid much attention to the game, I could have entirely misunderstood the way it was played and way it could have been played.

[noxiousdog]

I didn't pay much attention to the game, but from what I did it would seem to me that artifacts from this rule set force a level of honesty from the boons that is their own destruction either way. A bad guy must blend in. The artifacts themselves quickly should have become verifiable truth serums and concensus should get them used properly in public. Stealing should have been consensual and verifiable actions with testable results.

From the outside too much easy information gets put on the table. But then, having not really paid much attention to the game, I could have entirely misunderstood the way it was played and way it could have been played.

I think it's more about dribbling out the losses rather than avoiding them. Even a single turning would change the game dramatically.

The DARLins IN UR MANR got lucky by nabbing Leigh on the first night and not having anyone turned.

[Remus West]

I have a question for the 'boons. How did you guys go about deciding your theft choices? Did you break it up into four 'boons and four targets? Did you send two 'boons after one target so that you covered high and low? I'm asking because I really thought you guys would have the artifacts more often and I am not sure as to why you did not.

[Caine]

we discussed who was a likely holder of something and picked a target each. we also came up with some code words to reveal success/failure and if we were robbed in the night. leigh came up with that one, but on some nights, we actually had enough time after the thefts to talk to each other before the morning cycle began.

i had a sheet to track votes/thefts to narrow down item custody, but once you guys stopped talking about it, i lost track of who could be holding. of course, bad demo lying about the feral teeth the whole time was a huge thing for you guys as we were seeking to grow our numbers, especially after padre and leigh bought it. i don't think someone will chance lying about loosing the feral's next time, as the boons will remember bd's move. hiding in plain sight.

as for our target list, we went after those who were trustworthy. kraegor seemed like a likely lynch target, and so was remus, which is why they weren't high priorities.

[Grundbegriff]

Now with 100% more puzzle!

[Remus West]

I would have guessed but I have no clue.

[Leigh]

Now with 100% more puzzle!

This is where I am woefully short on gamer geekiness!
I keep checking back, though, to see if anyone's solved it.
But Grund, it's just another reason why you're awesome, moderation AND easter eggs and art and poetry! You gave it all to us! The only thing it lacked was music and video. I am continually amazed by your aptitude for moderation.
Speaking of uberness, I wanted to comment on how I especially liked the way you handled the mistake of both hauntings, and .... there was one other question that you were extremely unbiased about.... anyway, your lack of partisianship in answering questions was remarkable. Especially since there were a lot of good questions!

[Orinoco]

Did everyone else know that Leigh was such a suck-up??!

Great game though Grund. I really enjoyed it because for once being a normal villager wasn't the boring option

[Chaosraven]

Did everyone else know that Leigh was such a suck-up??!

Don't be mean dear, we won.

Uh, you were a good guy, right? I lost track

[Leigh]

Did everyone else know that Leigh was such a suck-up??!

Great game though Grund. I really enjoyed it because for once being a normal villager wasn't the boring option

I couldn't decide which reply to go with, so pick one:
A) Ah! Well worded, Orinoco! And good observation, I AM quite the flatterer!
B) I wasn't sucking up, I was saying thank you. I would hate for Grund to think that the amount of effort he expended into making this game fun went unnoticed. I, for one, truly appreciated it.
C) Did everyone else know that Orinoco was such an asshole??!

[Chaosraven]

Ok, don't make me turn this thread around!

You sit on THAT side, and you sit on THAT side.

Damned kids.