Lars Lynching Liasons 4: Game has ended

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:46 pm

LordMortis wrote:
tru1cy wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Proposed addition to the gaming vocabulary:

Chaosraving: Trying to exploit metagame information to gain an advantage, but instead killing all teammates in the ensuing confusion.
I second this motion!
LoL I totally wish I'd I am fly on the wall to see his expression when he reads this.

I don't want to be a fly on the wall, I want to actually be there. Then I get to see his face AND punch him in the nuts.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:47 pm

Remus West wrote:
LordMortis wrote:
tru1cy wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Proposed addition to the gaming vocabulary:

Chaosraving: Trying to exploit metagame information to gain an advantage, but instead killing all teammates in the ensuing confusion.
I second this motion!
LoL I totally wish I'd I am fly on the wall to see his expression when he reads this.
I don't want to be a fly on the wall, I want to actually be there. Then I get to see his face AND punch him in the nuts.

Why don't you go over and video tape it.

Kelric · Post by **Kelric** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:49 pm

Then stick it on youtube.

SirReal · Post by **SirReal** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:06 pm

It was time for a new sig anyway.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:39 pm

See, told you I'd get 100% of the blame

And remus you were supposed to punch me nads if BUBBLES was the wolf, remember?

Ralph: thank you for the Motivational Poster... I will probably use it as Desktop.

SirReal: thank you for using the New Term so everyone in every forum will see

Grund: I'm glad they killed you first

razzin'frazzin'smartguy

ROLL CREDITS

LarsWolf4:The Demise of Linoge
a Chaoscide production

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:47 pm

Chaosraven wrote:See, told you I'd get 100% of the blame

And remus you were supposed to punch me nads if BUBBLES was the wolf, remember?

Ralph: thank you for the Motivational Poster... I will probably use it as Desktop.

SirReal: thank you for using the New Term so everyone in every forum will see

Grund: I'm glad they killed you first razzin'frazzin'smartguy

ROLL CREDITS

LarsWolf4:The Demise of Linoge
a Chaoscide production

Yep.. its because people actually expect something of you.. Unlike me. So I will skate away into the sunset while you're name is smeared all over the bathroom stalls.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:49 pm

You will please note that I have continued to blame Mr. Bubbles, setaside, and Chaosraven. I do not believe that Chaosraven alone is capable of organizing such complete teamwork towards ineptitude. The ineptitude obviously but the organized teamwork to get there, never.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:52 pm

Remus West wrote:You will please note that I have continued to blame Mr. Bubbles, setaside, and Chaosraven. I do not believe that Chaosraven alone is capable of organizing such complete teamwork towards ineptitude. The ineptitude obviously but the organized teamwork to get there, never.

You know what.. You'll fall again one day.. And I will be there to laugh at you. It may not be today.. or tomorrow. or even in a few months, but I will wait for you to make your mistake..

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:53 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:
Remus West wrote:You will please note that I have continued to blame Mr. Bubbles, setaside, and Chaosraven. I do not believe that Chaosraven alone is capable of organizing such complete teamwork towards ineptitude. The ineptitude obviously but the organized teamwork to get there, never.
You know what.. You'll fall again one day.. And I will be there to laugh at you. It may not be today.. or tomorrow. or even in a few months, but I will wait for you to make your mistake..

Dude, I make mistakes every game. I'm getting thick skinned about it.

You, on the other hand, just got beat by the very strategy your side used to create the Remuscide legend. Thats humor in the extreme.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:53 pm

Remus West wrote:You will please note that I have continued to blame Mr. Bubbles, setaside, and Chaosraven. I do not believe that Chaosraven alone is capable of organizing such complete teamwork towards ineptitude. The ineptitude obviously but the organized teamwork to get there, never.

I'd agree it was a team effort.

As i said in PM.... at the end there Bubbles was even channeling Chaos. to focus on the correct target and then... VOTE THE OTHER GUY!

(as shown by chaos when he focused on Chris and then voted Bahktosh)

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:56 pm

Kraegor wrote:
Remus West wrote:You will please note that I have continued to blame Mr. Bubbles, setaside, and Chaosraven. I do not believe that Chaosraven alone is capable of organizing such complete teamwork towards ineptitude. The ineptitude obviously but the organized teamwork to get there, never.
I'd agree it was a team effort.

As i said in PM.... at the end there Bubbles was even channeling Chaos. to focus on the correct target and then... VOTE THE OTHER GUY!

(as shown by chaos when he focused on Chris and then voted Bahktosh)

Btw.. I was gonna quote my one good post.. accusing Ralph and I accidentally nuked it... So I got nothing showing that I actually made an effort this game.. That really sucks.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:00 pm

I almost thought you were gonna pull it out, Bubbles. You were picking at the right pieces....which mighta been enough to swing chaos....but then ya changed yer mind....swing and a miss!!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:04 pm

Kraegor wrote:I almost thought you were gonna pull it out, Bubbles. You were picking at the right pieces....which mighta been enough to swing chaos....but then ya changed yer mind....swing and a miss!!

I'm under the impression that he just did that to tease us with the possibility of victory. I had to tell LordMortis he wanted to continue reading this thread he was so sure they were cooked then the wolves went and pulled it out.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:46 pm

Kraegor wrote:(as shown by chaos when he focused on Chris and then voted Bahktosh)

Actually by that standard Bakhtosh was the Best Sorcerer ever.

I fully thought he was guilty.

pr0ner pointed it out.

I gathered the evidence and BANG... not a Wolf.

Demoralizing and cemented my Suspicion of pr0ner as the Sorcerer.

This game has been brought to you by the Letters Q and X and Z... and the Number 4.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:09 pm

Ok, now that the dust has settled a bit, does anyone have any comments to make on the ruleset? Ideas on what rules are good, what roles are good, anything that might need tweaked for the next time I decide to put everyone through this horror?

How do people feel about the Mentalist role that was added? Is the Sorcerer really a good role to even have in the game? Share your ideas.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:14 pm

Not a comment on the ruleset, but I do have a comment on some of the write-ups. It might be just that I was in a position of power and knew who was good and who was bad, but I didn't like that some of the write-ups for the night's killing mentioned players other than the one killed (I know you mentioned Chaosraven once and maybe Mr. Bubbles?). I may be wrong, but I just got the feeling that you wouldn't have mentioned one of the wolves in those post-mortem write-ups.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:45 pm

Lars wrote:How do people feel about the Mentalist role that was added?

It was the single most consequential role in the game. Everything hinged on the fact that people believed the Mentalist, who had believed the Wolf who killed him.

Obviously, the Medium was key to that circumstance.

Is the Sorcerer really a good role to even have in the game? Share your ideas.

Like most of the roles that present a range of options, its quality depends on the player. (Nothing against Bakhtosh here-- his team won, after all.) The role can be whipped into something major or left low-key.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:47 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I didn't like that some of the write-ups for the night's killing mentioned players other than the one killed

I also dislike this, if only because of the risk that people will misinterpret the Moderator's choice of characters.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:04 pm

WRITEUP
As flavor text it is fine except that people will either (a)suspect or (b) presume innocence based on who is in it. Perhaps using Players Not Appearing In This Game might be better... people who used to or usually play but aren't actually in the game.

ROLES
The Mentalist was cool.
The Medium falls under the same problem many 100% roles have. The indisputable proof always leaves me a little cold.
I think the Masons should equal the Wolves in number or 1 Less.

I think the twist that the wolves got the id of the ones they ate was very interesting. It added the ability to fake being X (though not actually used here).

I like the offset Hunter Shot with the Berserker Wolf Kill .

I think the game was pretty well balanced.

They knew their kills, our Priest had the Option.
Their sorcerer versus our seer.
Their Berserker versus our Hunter.
Their PM between 4, our 2 Masons and Mentalist connection.

Excellent Game.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:07 pm

Regarding the Sorcerer...

As long as the Seer doesn't scan the Roles (only Wolf or NotWolf) it can play a valuable asset to the Wolf team, though in a NonPM game he is left out of the loop.

Perhaps the ability to PM a Wolf he has ID'd would make the Role decent...

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:34 pm

I think the Sorcerer should be allowed a one time use Mentalist-like link. He could use this to either fake being the Mentalist or to contact the wolves after he finds them and tell them he's on their side.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:37 pm

I agree that as it is now the sorcerer is fairly weak. Since he can't PM anyone, his only real options for helping the wolves are to either stay alive until the end game where his vote matter or outing the seer/hunter. But since he has to ask specific questions, his chance of finding one of the above roles is pretty slim.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:43 pm

I disagree with Chaosraven about Bahktosh's play this game. Just a personal approach probably but I think the Sorcerer needs to stir the pot a bit more. Maybe I need to reread the thread much more but at one time or another I was completely sold on Cesare and pr0ner as sorcerer. Cesare because he demanded the seance to prove me when it was such an obviously bad role for a wolf to pretend to be, particularly in light of his being the Priest, he would have known if the Medium were dead. Proner for his role in support of Grenard. Both of them were stirring the pot while Bahktosh stayed in the background for the entire game.

I really liked this ruleset. I think the Mentalist added an interesting dimension to the game and will be interested to see how the tweak Ralph-Wiggum put in affects that role in the vampire game.

If you wanted to power up the sorcerer role you might make him able to "protect" a player from the seer's scan. If the seer scans the one under the sorcerer's protection then he gets no read. Not a wolf/nonwolf but a message saying "your scan failed", thus he knows he was blocked but does not know who blocked him or what they blocked him from learning as the sorcerer could easily protect a villager to make the seer think he had found a wolf.

As for the names in the flavor text, I can see what people are saying, but I enjoyed the additional flavor they add. Maybe make a note that you are going to use random names for those that way no one can think Ralph-Wiggum must be a wolf since his name has not come up there. It might be a wolf's name it might not, it's just a random player.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:47 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote:I agree that as it is now the sorcerer is fairly weak. Since he can't PM anyone, his only real options for helping the wolves are to either stay alive until the end game where his vote matter or outing the seer/hunter. But since he has to ask specific questions, his chance of finding one of the above roles is pretty slim.

Or he finds one wolf and lets them "guide" his votes. By only bandwagonning with them he can be pretty sure to keep his direction in line with theirs. Also, I'm kind of interested in what people think of the tweak I suggested above. Sort of makes him a "hunter" of sorts for the wolves side.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:32 pm

I thought the mentalist role was a good addition. I just wish I was able to give it a better test drive...but I chose poorly.

The sorcerer needs the ability to contact the wolves when he finds one. As is his powers were very limited.

What if he finds a wolf, he then has the choice to contact through PM that wolf only. He can find out from that wolf who the others are (if the wolf trusts he is the sorcerer and not the mentalist) and he can maintain contact the whole game as long as the wolf he has chosen to PM with is still alive. If that wolf dies then he loses the ability to contact the wolves.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:52 pm

Good feedback so far, thanks for the comments.

I admit that I was a little hesitant to use other people's names in the writeups, but I wanted to try and flavor them up a little. I used random names, except in the case of Remus' death. (for obvious reasons, I'm sure everyone can recognize) I probably should have announced that was the case, but I would hope that people would know I wouldn't try to influence the game at all by using people's names one way or the other. I'll state my intentions more clearly next time I run the game.

As far as the Sorcerer goes, I didn't really want to make him very powerful in the first place. I fully intended his role to be a tricky role to execute properly. He has, essentially, the same power as the Seer, but with the option of finding out specific information about a player if he wishes. In execution, it appears that additional power is not used or needed. However, giving him the power to link up with the wolves is very powerful, and I don't know if the wolves need anymore advantages then they already have right now. If he can PM the wolves, then any threat of him being eaten is removed entirely, and his vote will automatically go to the "Wolf block". That can really be a game-changing ability. I think having the Sorcerer being a wildcard trying to help the wolves however he can spices up the game without being real powerful. If people disagree with that assessment, please let me know.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:54 am

I do not think I would play a game in which the sorcerer could PM the wolves, I think it would off balance it way to much.

For what its worth, I did not pay attention to the names in the write-ups beyond thinking they were fun.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:56 am

Remus West wrote:For what its worth, I did not pay attention to the details of the rules beyond thinking they were fun.

Mortoned

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:07 pm

FWIW, I tried to play it low key in the hopes of living till the end when I could add my vote to the wolves and burn the village.

I think I did stir the pot a bit during the 2 seer stage when I was pushing hard to get tru1cy shot. I think the fact that tru1cy agreed with me made that a lot less controversial of a move. I didn't think anyone would support lynching tru1cy and letting Grenard live, so we had to get trucy shot and lynch Grenard in the same turn...it also would have revealed the hunter to my masters for dinner that night. Unfortunately, that didn't work out like I'd hoped.