[WW] - Wings were clipped, not gonna fly!

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:28 pm

EDIT - THIS GAME HAS BEEN PERMANENTLY SHELVED DUE TO LACK OF INTEREST.

Ok I have long wanted to moderate one of these games... simply for the reason of seeing all the action unfold from being behind the scenes. Would there be interest in it? I dont mind waiting till the end of Grund's Stormbringer Pt. 2 as well. I have not figured out the lore quite yet. But will think about a proper setting. This is a basic post to discern interest and if there is sufficient then to sign-up. If there is not enough interest I will wait until the end of Grund's game. Again this is a work in progress, and still just fleshing out the rules.

The way i kind of envision the game is the following:

Bad Guys
3 wolves/vampires/ornery ones - depending on participants if i get over 20 - which i doubt- then might bump it to 4.

-Berserking amulet. This amulet shall be worn by 1 wolf during the course of the day. The wolves can decide who amongst them shall wear it. If the wolf who has it during the day is lynched, they can take out one innocent person.

If, the assassin takes out the wolf who happens to have the amulet, he neutralizes the amulet, and recovers it for the village. the amulet then is removed from play, and the wolves no longer are able to berserk.

Good Guys -

1 Seer - able to discern roles of the players.

1 Protector - able to protect any player of their choosing. though not on consecutive nights.

2 Masons - Know each other, and are able to PM each other at all times.

1 Assassin - This player has the ability to kill 1 person during the day time during the whole game. They can not reveal their role at all. If they reveal their role, their power is neutralized. If the assassin kills the wolf during the day who happens to holding on to the berserker amulet, he recovers the amulet thereby neutralizing it. The assassin only has 1 kill ability during the whole game, this kill is made during the day. They will notify me during the day whom they wish to assasinate. The assassination does not take the place of a lynching. So if the assassin chooses to take out a player, the group still has to choose a lynch "volunteer" for that day.

Basic Rule set:

1. NO PM's unless you are a special whose role allows it.
2. No edit rule
3. Once Majority is reached, the voting is locked.
4. Night and day cycle. Game starts on a night cycle.
5. when lynched the players role is revealed as either a good guy or a bad guy.

Night sequence:
1. Protector Protects
2. Scan by seer
3. Bad guys choose victim
3B - THe Bad guys tell me whom will carry the amulet (if it is still in the game).
4. Dawn breaks

Players
1. ChaosRaven
2. St. Dysan
3. Lassr
4. Austin
5. PR_GMR
6. Kraeggor

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:32 pm

I like your ruleset, but I would wait til Grund's game is over.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:35 pm

Newcastle wrote:Bad Guys:
1. i kind of like the berserker aspect of a bad guy. Basically if lynched, able to take out 1 person.

Powerful, usually balanced by a Protector having the same ability perhaps?

Newcastle wrote:2. Mortician, able to examine the body of a dead player and discern their ability

Powerful for the bad guys as they get to know the role of those they kill while the general public does not.

Newcastle wrote:Good Guys:

1. A mason's block? 2 players who know each other. Able to Pm each other at all times? Or only during night cycle?

Always happy to have Masons

Newcastle wrote:2. The seer is able to PM a target. This could either replace a scan, or it might be only that they can contact the person whom they have scanned that evening. They would only be able to PM at night, and only the target they have scanned.

Drawback to this is that the Seer is then 100% proven to the Scanned Target. Makes the Seer more powerful.

Newcastle wrote:3 A mortician - able to discern role of any player after being lynched

Usually a Good Guy Identifier is important when the village is not told Good/Bad upon lynch. Very low powered if just Verifying death of other Specials.

And as always, INterested when the time comes regardless of ruleset.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:36 pm

yeah am pretty sure i will wait till Grund's game is over, just wanted to put this out there...waiting in the wings so to speak. I dont mind waiting until grund's pt. 2 game is over (or in it's last stages).

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:44 pm

Thank you for the feedback CR...will keep that in mind. I want to see what the other players think first off.

1. I can see the berserker being overpowered in terms of taking out an additional player. The obvious answer would be in that the protector could either take one out in the day time or if they are protecting a target...they get a X% chance of either taking out a bad guy (sorry for being loose on their precise nature, still mulling over the lore) or not. I think the obvious answer, would be that the Protector has 1 shot to take out a bad guy. The obvious question that leads to, does the protector then loose all their powers?
Or should i break this position down into two different roles. 1. a protector (solely able to protect a player). and 2. A hunter character who can take out a bad guy.

2. Might take out the Mortician role then on both sides. And the only result of the lynching would be good guy/bad guy.

3. Again am looking for balance, and dont want to upset the balance too much with giving the village too many overpowered specials.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:01 pm

One of the things that makes a good guy "auto kill" during the day so powerful is the proof of innocence that goes with it. Any role that can prove itself to the village takes a huge jump forward on the power scale. If you want to make a good guy day killer I think an assassination type would be interesting. They PM you the target, the target dies, nobody gets information on who did it. To make sure they do not come out publically you could say that any announcement of intent would cause his attack to fail, thus making the "I'm going to prove myself by killing Chaosraven" then assassination of Chaosraven impossible. He could certainly answer calls for someone's death i.e. the Seer comes forward and announces that Chaosraven and LordMortis are werewolves then I PM you that I am assassinating Chaosraven before the lynch voting goes through. Timing might be tricky though as the village might vote to lynch Chaosraven at the same time so you would have to use time stamps to determine which action goes first.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:05 pm

Overall it depends on "Balance"

Think of the basic game this way:

2 Bad Guys get the ability to KNOW who the bad guys are.
They are allowed (without having to vote with the rest of the village) to KILL any one player at night.

8 People who have no powers.

The more People you have the more there are for the Bad Guys to hide amongst.
The More Special People you have (especially those who can Prove their Side) the harder it is for the Bad Guys to hide.

Once you add a Seer in, he is trying to (A)find bad guys (b)become trusted by those he knows are innocent.
Given the PM Scan ability, this gives him a 100% (b) option.

When a Seer is added, the Bad Guys really do have to take him out, as anyone else is still left with some small doubt that they are bad guys... nobody else gets 100% proof.

Protectors all depend on the Limitations one sets on them.
Is it Too Powerful to let the Protector Defend the Same Target over and over? Maybe.

For my $.02, I think Masons should have equivalent Talk Time to the Wolves.
I think a Protector needs limitations of some variety.

Of course, I'm a Nutter. An absolute Loon who would play in a Game with 100% Powered Specials and 30+ people...

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:15 pm

Very interesting Remus, and i do like it. The question would be: Do they get 1 kill? or rather 1 shot, and then there power is impotent? (i think this aspect is fair) I do like the unveiling of their "talent" causes their talent to disappear. The other angle to this, is that i dont want the villagers to have so many specials that it unbalances the game. Naturally this assassin would take the role of the "hunter".

I do think the PMing of hte seer would be quite powerful, as noted by CR. Because they do create auto-confirmation.

How could we better balance things for the bad guys then?
1. If we give them the berserker, i think the hunter/assassin role is a natural equalizer for the good guys.

2. Is there an answer for the PM ability of the Seer? Since that is powerful. The only counter I could think of is having a bad guy have the ability to block the receiving of a PM (not the scan). IE Bad guy says, i want to prevent any communication that player X will receive. I empathize the receiving end, since i think the Seer should be able to send at will.

3. If we do create enough subspeciliaties, then i think a mortician might be a positive for both sides.

I also dont want to make this too complex where players are turned off, but i want there to be enough spice in it where it will be enjoyable and retaining a fair and balanced gameplay.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:21 pm

How can you stop the receiving of PMs? Its not like you can say "Hey Remus, if LordMortis PMs you just delete it." I think you would have to tell the Seer his target was blocked and that he can not PM that night. Although I am not a fan of the Seer PMing anyone in any case so

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:22 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Overall it depends on "Balance"

Once you add a Seer in, he is trying to (A)find bad guys (b)become trusted by those he knows are innocent.
Given the PM Scan ability, this gives him a 100% (b) option.

When a Seer is added, the Bad Guys really do have to take him out, as anyone else is still left with some small doubt that they are bad guys... nobody else gets 100% proof.

Protectors all depend on the Limitations one sets on them.
Is it Too Powerful to let the Protector Defend the Same Target over and over? Maybe.

For my $.02, I think Masons should have equivalent Talk Time to the Wolves.
I think a Protector needs limitations of some variety.

Of course, I'm a Nutter. An absolute Loon who would play in a Game with 100% Powered Specials and 30+ people...

1. I do admit the seer would be overpowered in the "potential roles". That's why i kind of want to find a balance for it. Or a potential block that the wolves can have.

2. I have set a protector limit, in the fact that they cant guard on consecutive nights. I think that is fair and in fact standard operatinig procedure.

3. If the Masons do come into being I think it is only fair they get equal talk time as the wolves as you noted.

Again this is just fleshing out the ideas, and to make this as fun and enjoyable as possible for the players. That really is my main goal.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:24 pm

Remus West wrote:How can you stop the receiving of PMs? Its not like you can say "Hey Remus, if LordMortis PMs you just delete it." I think you would have to tell the Seer his target was blocked and that he can not PM that night. Although I am not a fan of the Seer PMing anyone in any case so

if that were implemented the PM's, then i would simply state what you said...LM..>remus is an innocent, however, you are unable to establish contact with him due to his drunken stupor. PMing has been blocked.

again, still discussion stage. The way i view it we still have time before this one gets up and running.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:27 pm

Newcastle wrote:
Remus West wrote:How can you stop the receiving of PMs? Its not like you can say "Hey Remus, if LordMortis PMs you just delete it." I think you would have to tell the Seer his target was blocked and that he can not PM that night. Although I am not a fan of the Seer PMing anyone in any case so
if that were implemented the PM's, then i would simply state what you said...LM..>remus is an innocent, however, you are unable to establish contact with him due to his drunken stupor. PMing has been blocked.

again, still discussion stage. The way i view it we still have time before this one gets up and running.

I don't think he should even get that I am an innocent. He chose to PM not scan so he takes the risk. Chances are I am innocent as the Bad Guys would hardly block an action that hands them the Seer but there would be no reason to hand him confirmation.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:31 pm

Remus West wrote: He chose to PM not scan so he takes the risk.

I may have misread but I don't think it was an either/or use of power under discussion.

An either/or would be sufficiently Limiting.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:33 pm

interesting remus....what about this then:

1. Seer only gets scan ability (remove all PM's or do the either/or)

2. Wolves get a "blocker". IE i choose to block all scans/communications on Newcastle tonight.

3. Retain the protector role (defense only)

4. insert the day time assassin (one shot only).

5. Insert the masons (in all honesty i am really leaning toward inserting them). Though I think if one is attacked at night, then both die. If one is lynched during the day, only the lynchee dies.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:35 pm

What would be the

(1)Limitations on Blocking
(2) Results of an Attempted Scan on a Blocked Target

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:44 pm

1. Limitations - cant block on a player consecutive nights.
1B. The seer can scan a player on consecutive nights.

2. I think the results will be something along the lines saying that their target was blocked. IE results were fuzzy? However i choose to phrase. Would you suggest a different method?

I can see the wolves actually using the blocking ability to block scans on their own members. Since i think that would give them the best tactical advantage.

I am actually intrigued by the blocking ability right now.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri May 25, 2007 2:56 pm

Actually I would think the wolves likely to try blocking anyone they suspect might get scanned as a Seer who tried to scan someone and got a blocked message may think them to be a wolf. I like that.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:04 pm

So edited and updated it a bit. I inserted the masons to the game.

I am also very tempted to insert the blocker, berserker & assassin in to the game.

In terms of the seer being able to PM that is still up in the air. I am thinking that it might serve as a counter/balancing aspect to the blocking ability of the wolves. It is a very powerful tool, i do admit it.

Again am awaiting further interest/discussion. AS i said before, my main goal is to make it fun, balanced, and not overtly complicated that it causes disinterest amongst the players.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat May 26, 2007 1:16 am

Newcastle wrote:and not overtly complicated that it causes disinterest amongst the players.

Ok ok I get the point guys, my game Humped the Shark, sheesh

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sat May 26, 2007 3:26 am

Chaosraven wrote:
Newcastle wrote:and not overtly complicated that it causes disinterest amongst the players.
Ok ok I get the point guys, my game Humped the Shark, sheesh

Hmm, i think it might actually be something else CR

st_dysan · Post by **st_dysan** » Sat May 26, 2007 8:00 am

sounds interesting, not sure if you're to this point yet but St_Dysan

Orinoco · Post by **Orinoco** » Sat May 26, 2007 9:26 am

Chaosraven wrote:
Newcastle wrote:and not overtly complicated that it causes disinterest amongst the players.
Ok ok I get the point guys, my game Humped the Shark, sheesh

Actually, I think Chaosraven has jumped the shark...

Oh, and I'm sure he's humped the shark as well...

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat May 26, 2007 10:15 am

You really need another Nemesis? Soon there'll be enough of us to lynch you first day...

sharks are sexy

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat May 26, 2007 11:07 am

I'm in if you can wait until after Grund's next game.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Sat May 26, 2007 12:24 pm

sign ups are more than welcome at this point...the game wont start till Grund's is in it's last stages or done....something along those lines.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:00 pm

OK this is a friendly little bump to give it a bit more attention, and also to streamlined more of hte rules.

I know Grunds is still going strong, but I also know some folks have been ejected from it lately.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:12 pm

OK so changes, changes changes.

1. I took out the PM ability by the seer. Most likely i will be taking out the blocking ability of the Wolves, since the blocking was only in there to serve as a balance.

2. I kind of want to put the Berserker in there, but I would have to add in the assassin role to balance that out. What says you?

Also, aint anyone else interested?

Any other changes people might see fit?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:53 pm

Newcastle wrote:2. I kind of want to put the Berserker in there, but I would have to add in the assassin role to balance that out. What says you?

I like it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:57 pm

I'll be in.

The problem is the other game gets so friggen stagnant that I'm afriad having two games going at once will result in people just paying attention to one game and let the other go to a degree. If you split the people and which game they're interested in, maybe both will just drag.

Also, Chaos was setting up a game.

Also, I have a special game in mind too. Might have to wait a bit longer though.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:14 pm

Austin wrote:Also, Chaos was setting up a game.

So was triggercut.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:19 pm

I was going to run this one as soon as Grunds game was over, or when the last day strikes. That was my intention. I know there are a small pool of people who wish to play and dont want stretch the resources. But heck it's summer.

Also, a thought struck me....

What if the wolves can choose who is the berserker wolf?
Would that choice be permanently made on the first day? Could they choose a different wolf to be the berserker on a different day?

Just a thought, since I am most likely going to add in both the assassin and Berserker aspect.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:23 pm

Again this probably wont start for another week or two, so we still have some time. Basically when grunds game is over. I just wanted to bump this and put it on folks radar.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:24 pm

Newcastle wrote:What if the wolves can choose who is the berserker wolf?
Would that choice be permanently made on the first day? Could they choose a different wolf to be the berserker on a different day?

Taking a cue from my Cassandra Crossing game, you could associate the Berserker power with an item, and allow the Wolves to transfer that item (or not) nightly.

Coolness would be that if the assassin happens to kill the Wolf who holds the token (and if the assassin is immune to Berserkification when he kills), then the assassin would gain (for the good guys) the berserker power to be used if the Wolves try to kill him.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:26 pm

Newcastle wrote:Again this probably wont start for another week or two, so we still have some time. Basically when grunds game is over.

My game had better be over by Tuesday, because I'm outta here on Wednesday for a 2wk vacation!

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:27 pm

How would that work Grund? Would they say..>Necastle has hte amulet of berserking for today? I am assuming the way you mean it, it adds more story depth? I am not seeing how it affects gameplay, only aesthetic value. Not that I am against it, but I want to understand the implications. Also, I really havent read the Cassandras crossing game.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:30 pm

Newcastle wrote:I am not seeing how it affects gameplay, only aesthetic value.

"Only" aesthetic value?

OK, the amulet trope only affects gameplay if, as indicated, it makes possible the good team's theft of the Wolfish Berserkeley power. The manner of that theft would be for the Assassin to successfully kill the Wolf who happened to be holding it-- unlikely, but ultra cool if it happens.

Also, I really havent read the Cassandras crossing game.

Neophyte! Varlet!

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:31 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Newcastle wrote:Again this probably wont start for another week or two, so we still have some time. Basically when grunds game is over.
My game had better be over by Tuesday, because I'm outta here on Wednesday for a 2wk vacation!

Congratulations!!! But the pace that the game is going, who knows if it will be over by them. But then again, I am always suspecting that Grund is the actual slayer in that game (as austin once hypothesized) and that there are really no "players" who are slayers

. I kid, i kid.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:33 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Newcastle wrote:I am not seeing how it affects gameplay, only aesthetic value.
"Only" aesthetic value?

OK, the amulet trope only affects gameplay if, as indicated, it makes possible the good team's theft of the Wolfish Berserkeley power. The manner of that theft would be for the Assassin to successfully kill the Wolf who happened to be holding it-- unlikely, but ultra cool if it happens.

Also, I really havent read the Cassandras crossing game.
Neophyte! Varlet!

AHHH!!

I like it, i like it, i like it. Ok that has got to be in. You see, now that i understand how it can be used in terms of gameplay it makes tons O' sense!

Also, I really havent read the Cassandras crossing game.

Neophyte! Varlet!

Geez your acting as if your game is required reading for anyone wanting to get involved in the WW games.

Edit to add - ok i like that idea and am adding it into the rules.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:36 pm

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:42 pm

Ok last question to figure out:

The assassin does his taking out a player during the day time: does it take the place of a lynching and we proceed to nightfall? Or does it take place and then a lynching takes place?

Octopus Overlords

[WW] - Wings were clipped, not gonna fly!

[WW] - Wings were clipped, not gonna fly!

Re: WW - Newcastle Style!!