Padding resumes

[The Mad Hatter]

I'm wondering if anyone has done this. My resume is pretty honest but I've been unemployed for nine months now, which is long enough to make it even less likely that I'll find something new. I'm thinking of adding a short term web application testing contract that would be difficult to trace, maybe using one of those tools a monkey could use but which I have no real experience with.

I know it's dishonest, but the requirements for new positions are so precise and I'm getting a little desperate here.

[dedewhale]

I interview a lot of people being in sales and I see it alot.. There is a big distinction between talking up (enriching) and making crap up.

Be careful doing this but it is OK to sell what you have done in the past with some colorful non measurable adjectives.

Do not exaggerate on measurable things and things people can test or clearly evaluate. Dont say "Profficient knowledge of J++" if someone is looking for a Java guru. But you can beef up the secondary skills for that job that may relate. "Exibited and recognized for ability to learn object based programming languages (like visual basic) by employer."

Just my thoughts

[Rip]

I'm wondering if anyone has done this. My resume is pretty honest but I've been unemployed for nine months now, which is long enough to make it even less likely that I'll find something new. I'm thinking of adding a short term web application testing contract that would be difficult to trace, maybe using one of those tools a monkey could use but which I have no real experience with.

I know it's dishonest, but the requirements for new positions are so precise and I'm getting a little desperate here.

I once had to seek work at a temp agency through a temp agency. Although it was on and off jobs I listed it as a running block of time.

No chance of getting a few weeks here and there via a temp? Or would that trash your benefits etc.

[JSHAW]

My personal policy is that if I haven't done it, and can't do it, I don't say I can or have done it. PERIOD.

Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you embellished your resume to the point where you got on the job, couldn't do the work and they fire you because they realize you lied on your resume and couldn't cut the mustard when it came down to getting the job done?

[Spike]

Dont say "Profficient knowledge of J++" if someone is looking for a Java guru. But you can beef up the secondary skills for that job that may relate. "Exibited and recognized for ability to learn object based programming languages (like visual basic) by employer."

Sound advice there, although spelling things right and checking the grammar/meaning of that second phrase would be good before using it..

My GF tried padding her CV once and ended up not getting a job that she normally would have because they asked her to produce contracts/documents from something she'd made up. Oopsie!

And never forget: it's a small world. Once you do that, there's a chance that word might get around. It's surprising how often people in certain jobs chat. Paranoid? Yes, but it's safer that way.

[The Mad Hatter]

My personal policy is that if I haven't done it, and can't do it, I don't say I can or have done it. PERIOD.

Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you embellished your resume to the point where you got on the job, couldn't do the work and they fire you because they realize you lied on your resume and couldn't cut the mustard when it came down to getting the job done?

I wouldn't add something I couldn't do, since that would be pointless. It's just that so many ads require very specific amounts of experience within a recent timeframe. Just this morning I was talking to an agency that needed a short term tester with experience in SQL Server and IIS. I have both but not recently, and so it was another "keep you in mind" waste of time. Any fool can work with those two things but because I haven't done so in the past couple of years I get screwed. I'm tired of that.

[The Mad Hatter]

I'm wondering if anyone has done this. My resume is pretty honest but I've been unemployed for nine months now, which is long enough to make it even less likely that I'll find something new. I'm thinking of adding a short term web application testing contract that would be difficult to trace, maybe using one of those tools a monkey could use but which I have no real experience with.

I know it's dishonest, but the requirements for new positions are so precise and I'm getting a little desperate here.

I once had to seek work at a temp agency through a temp agency. Although it was on and off jobs I listed it as a running block of time.

No chance of getting a few weeks here and there via a temp? Or would that trash your benefits etc.

I never had any benefits to trash. I worked as an independent contractor from 2000 through 2003, and incorporated contractors don't get any benefits when they leave their position. I'm surviving on credit. I will probably end up doing the temp thing, data entry or something like that.

[The Meal]

The worst of my resume-related transgressions is actually related to previous employment. It's not printed in my resume, but I'm unashamed to "puff up" my previous wages by a few percent (just rounding up to the next 5k or so), in an effort to garner a higher starting offer from the potential hiring company. Has worked pretty well for me.

I have *no idea* if the potential hiring company can legally catch me doing this. Is there any way, legally, they can find out just how much a previous employer has paid me?

Speaking with other folks in a similar profession, I hear this is pretty much SOP of job-seekers in our circles. You hafta leapfrog from company to company and write your own raises if you want to get ahead.

I'll be with my same employer for five years if I make it to September.

~Neal

[dedewhale]

The worst of my resume-related transgressions is actually related to previous employment. It's not printed in my resume, but I'm unashamed to "puff up" my previous wages by a few percent (just rounding up to the next 5k or so), in an effort to garner a higher starting offer from the potential hiring company. Has worked pretty well for me.

I have *no idea* if the potential hiring company can legally catch me doing this. Is there any way, legally, they can find out just how much a previous employer has paid me?

Speaking with other folks in a similar profession, I hear this is pretty much SOP of job-seekers in our circles. You hafta leapfrog from company to company and write your own raises if you want to get ahead.

I'll be with my same employer for five years if I make it to September.

~Neal

almost all people lie about how much they were and are making. I would just not put any salary history information on any resume or application, even if they ask. I would put will discuss face to face. Then there is less chance to get caught doing something inapropriate

[LordMortis]

I wouldn't do it, but I am a compulsive thruther.

[farley2k]

I pad a lot. I don't lie but I do put anything I have ever done, or really been in the room when it was done, as something I am good with.

I have watched our network administrator create VLANs on our network. It is on my resume. Why? Because if you sat me in a room I could do it. Yes, I would probably have to head to the web and read up on it for 15-20 minutes but I could do it.

I don't really consider it lying becuase I am not putting down stuff I can't do (like say fully configure a Cisco router interface) but I do put down stuff I have seen done and feel fairly confident I could do in a reasonable time.

I also do a ton of stuff around work which has no value except for padding my resume. We are an all MS shop but I setup SuSe, Red Hat, and FreeBSD so I could put them on my resume.

[LordMortis]

Why do you have to put that on your working resume though? I haven't updated my resume in over six years, but the last time I did I kept my skillset/proficiency list separate from my work history. My work history is a simple short paragraph detailing my responsibilities in a very general fashion. Lots of details will only put me above the two page mark and leave too many important details off of the first page. All I want my resume to do is be catchy enough to get me a call. It's there to get me an interview not get me a job.

[Kraken]

First: In the current job market and after the recent tech-sector depression, employers expect to see gaps in your employment history. That's especially true the older and more experienced you are. It's not the strike against you that you might think.

Second: You can gloss over dates. Instead of listing the month/year of your jobs, list just the year. This is especially appropriate if you have a long work history. Let them ask for specifics in an interview, when you can address their questions.

Third: You could get rid of dates entirely by going to a skills-based resume instead of a chronological employment-history resume. Might or might not be appropriate in your indusry.

I would definitely not invent any content. My resume says that I currently support myself with contractual editing jobs; the truth is that I've only taken one so far. Exaggeration is OK. Lying isn't.

[godhugh]

Why do you have to put that on your working resume though? I haven't updated my resume in over six years, but the last time I did I kept my skillset/proficiency list separate from my work history. My work history is a simple short paragraph detailing my responsibilities in a very general fashion. Lots of details will only put me above the two page mark and leave too many important details off of the first page. All I want my resume to do is be catchy enough to get me a call. It's there to get me an interview not get me a job.

Exactly.

I do a lot of hiring and the best way to make a bad impression before I even see you is to have a 5 page resume with a million applications on it. I just want to see what's relevant to the position you're applying for, I'll figure the rest out in the interview.

Personally, I keep about 3 different versions of my resume. One that focuses on management, one that focuses on technical, and one that focuses on customer service. I highlight those different aspects of my experience on each one. None of them is more then 1 1/2 pages long.

[Jeff V]

Considering all of the jobs I've had in my career, there isn't room on 2 pages to pad - I have to be exceedingly brief, in fact.

I have a hard enough time when someone starts asking questions about something I really did do 5-10 years ago but has changed in form and function in modern times.

I never claim anything I didn't do. I have had consulting and staffing firms rework my resume to appeal to specific client needs, however, sometimes making a mountain out of a molehill (taking something I've done briefly and presenting it like I'm a definitive authority on the subject). This has largely worked out ok - I never got a job where I felt overmatched or underqualified. There are a few I probably just as well didn't get, however.

[Eduardo X]

I think Kelric has quite an extensive Padding Resumé.

[EvilHomer3k]

As Ironrod said, exageration is okay, outright lying is not. If you want to say you have experience with FrontPage or Dreamweaver, why not get it. Play around with it at home. Build an application.

Oh, and just because a monkey CAN use FrontPage or DreamWeaver that doesn't mean they can do it well. I've used both and supervised people who use both. Some of my monkeys are a lot better than others.

As for me, I have exagerated my skills but never list a skill I haven't actually done (somewhat). My current job requires PHP. When I interviewed for the job, I put down that I had done some coding with PHP. I had but it was very limited. I never put on my resume that I had only set up PHP on the server and made a couple of pages. I also said I'd used Dreamweaver a bit. Again, I have used DreamWeaver but not that much. I never lied about using it nor did I really exagerate. When they asked about my experience, I said I'd done extensive experience with ASP/FrontPage. I talked about that skill and said that I'd used ASP/FrontPage more than PHP/Dreamweaver and then went on to discuss the projects I'd done. I didn't state that I'd done EVERY ONE of them in ASP/FrontPage. They didn't ask.

When I was hired they knew that I had PHP/DreamWeaver skills but also knew that I was more experienced in ASP/FrontPage. During the interview I also talked about how similar PHP was to ASP. They are pretty similar ( all programming languages have some similarities).

Anyway, my suggestion is to get some experience building a web app. Download an evaluation copy of DreamWeaver and set it up. Windows XP is capable of running a web server (you could also set up Apache on Linux). Then, you can put it on your resume without it lying about it.

[SuperHiro]

I'll brag and say my resume is badass... well the format is at least.

Got my name and contact info at the top.

Then it splits into two columns, one smaller than the other.

The smaller column just has a list of technical skills (programming languages, programs, etc.) and references (3 of them).

The larger column has education and job info. It used to list the projects I did in college as well (and I'd cycle them according to the type of job I was applying for). Now that I have some decent job experience it's all jobs. I change the descriptions according to what job I'm applying for.

A good friend of mine uses bullet points to describe his jobs. I have a big fat blob of narrative.

Inflate, don't create. And don't get too carried away with inflating, many hiring managers have a canny ability to see through bullshit.

[msurby]

I wouldn't do it, but I am a compulsive thruther.

Thruster? Truther? LordMortis - The Truth Thruster!

[The Mad Hatter]

Yeah, I guess you guys are right. I do need to update my web development mojo, it's been a while. At least I'm out of the design gig, I couldn't stand to make those horrible shockwave pages that everyone seems to want these days.

If anyone wants to hire me to develop a simple web application, I'll work for cookies.

[godhugh]

Inflate, don't create. And don't get too carried away with inflating, many hiring managers have a canny ability to see through bullshit.

No, don't inflate. Cut to the friggin' point. I don't need to know every single thing you did at your last 5 jobs. All I care about it what you did that is applicable to the job I'm considering you for. To be honest, if I have to spend 5 minutes reading your resume then you're down 1 strike already. I need to be able to look it and see all the major, relevant, points immediately.

Also, as LM said, the resume gets you an interview it doesn't get you the job. That's why it needs to be concise and to the point. If I have 50 resumes to look through I'm not going to take a lot of time looking at them.

[The Meal]

I'm with godhugh on this one. Give me a 1-page bulleted resume that takes me less than 30-seconds to determine whether I think this person has the skillz or not for the position we're thinking of filling. Were someone submitting a generic resume through HR or online, than try to put in as many buzzwords and technical jargon as you can (in the hopes that they actually route it to someone who cares or that the online scanner picks up on enough terms to determine it's a keeper).

But targetted resumes should be streamlined. In keeping my resume to one page, I fail to list three jobs where I was a manager, as they're not really relevant to my current technical path. Those are important skills (so they get brought up during the interview process), but they're likely not going to be what gets me the interview in the first place.

~Neal

[The Mad Hatter]

Inflate, don't create. And don't get too carried away with inflating, many hiring managers have a canny ability to see through bullshit.

No, don't inflate. Cut to the friggin' point. I don't need to know every single thing you did at your last 5 jobs. All I care about it what you did that is applicable to the job I'm considering you for. To be honest, if I have to spend 5 minutes reading your resume then you're down 1 strike already. I need to be able to look it and see all the major, relevant, points immediately.

Also, as LM said, the resume gets you an interview it doesn't get you the job. That's why it needs to be concise and to the point. If I have 50 resumes to look through I'm not going to take a lot of time looking at them.

In the IT world a resume doesn't even get you an interview, it just gets you noticed by whatever agency is screening for positions. That's why Excel HR called me today; they noticed I had web application experience on my resume. That got me a phone call. When she found out my SQL Server/IIS experience wasn't that current, that was that. She must not have read my resume very closely, because it's quite clearly stated when and what I did.

[godhugh]

Inflate, don't create. And don't get too carried away with inflating, many hiring managers have a canny ability to see through bullshit.

No, don't inflate. Cut to the friggin' point. I don't need to know every single thing you did at your last 5 jobs. All I care about it what you did that is applicable to the job I'm considering you for. To be honest, if I have to spend 5 minutes reading your resume then you're down 1 strike already. I need to be able to look it and see all the major, relevant, points immediately.

Also, as LM said, the resume gets you an interview it doesn't get you the job. That's why it needs to be concise and to the point. If I have 50 resumes to look through I'm not going to take a lot of time looking at them.

In the IT world a resume doesn't even get you an interview, it just gets you noticed by whatever agency is screening for positions. That's why Excel HR called me today; they noticed I had web application experience on my resume. That got me a phone call. When she found out my SQL Server/IIS experience wasn't that current, that was that. She must not have read my resume very closely, because it's quite clearly stated when and what I did.

I'm an IT manager so I know the process . Some companies go through contracting companies of course, so I don't see those resumes until they're handed to me. However, just because you passed their screen doesn't mean you're going to pass mine.

It works like this. The contracting company hires you on and then farms your resume out to a bunch of corporations. We get about 30 resumes a week from our contractors. 5-10 then get past our pre-screening and come in for an interview. 90% of the time, those 5-10 people have a 1 or 2 page resume that is very concise and too the point.

In addition, we do plenty of direct hiring of full-time associates. I'm the one who determines who comes in for an interview and that's solely based off your resume.

A good, concise, to-the-point resume helps far more then you know.

[Fireball]

So it's true that a resume shouldn't be more than one page, right?

I'm producing my first real resume here (I need a job in May), and I have no idea at all how to do it. And, dammit, my stupid job here at SMU has prevented me from accruing any relevant interning experience.

I'm never going to find a job. I suck.

[The Mad Hatter]

So it's true that a resume shouldn't be more than one page, right?

I'm producing my first real resume here (I need a job in May), and I have no idea at all how to do it. And, dammit, my stupid job here at SMU has prevented me from accruing any relevant interning experience.

I'm never going to find a job. I suck.

I don't know about the one page thing. I don't see how I could cut mine down to a single page without slicing out important details. Mine's pretty concise and it's still around a page and a half.

[LordMortis]

If you go to two pages you should have good reason. If you go to three you better be God.

[Enough]

So it's true that a resume shouldn't be more than one page, right?

I'm producing my first real resume here (I need a job in May), and I have no idea at all how to do it. And, dammit, my stupid job here at SMU has prevented me from accruing any relevant interning experience.

I'm never going to find a job. I suck.

I don't know about the one page thing. I don't see how I could cut mine down to a single page without slicing out important details. Mine's pretty concise and it's still around a page and a half.

It depends on the field and where you are applying. I think it best to have both a one-pager and a long version available and ideally multiple versions of each. If you are going for a professional or technical position a multi-page resume very well may be required to outline your abilities (ever see a vitae?) But for many entry-level jobs you would want a one-pager. Fit the resume to the job you are applying for it's much more effective (and honest) than padding your resume. Padding posts is one thing heh, but for resumes don't embellish with mistruths. Also don't just think about the resume, many times a cover letter tailored to a specific opening will open more doors than any resume.

Edit: where the heck is MHS, she's the expert.

[Defiant]

If you go to two pages you should have good reason. If you go to three you better be God.

Actually, God doesn't need three pages

[LawBeefaroni]

Resuming padding...

[yossar]

I think Kelric has quite an extensive Padding Resumé.

That's what I thought this thread was about too. But then I realized that it might actually be about something interesting.

[jlu]

I've always been honest on my resume. Mostly just because that's how I am; in part because I'd forget if I put in something not accurate.

Resume should be one page. My father I think has page two now, but he's in his sixties. I suppose an exception if you have tended to be a contractor and worked on a ton of different projects; but even then.

[The Meal]

I've worked in my industry for seven years and a decent amount of relevant academia in my personal history, and wouldn't even *think* about a multi-page resume. Maybe if I had 30+ years of relevant information to convey...

~Neal

[Enough]

I've worked in my industry for seven years and a decent amount of relevant academia in my personal history, and wouldn't even *think* about a multi-page resume. Maybe if I had 30+ years of relevant information to convey...

~Neal

But yet if you were applying for my job you wouldn't think of turning in a one-pager and I promise you I am no 30+ years of experience expert. It really comes down to researching your field and seeing what is expected/works best. One thing you can do is look over other resumes available on job searching sites like monster to see how other people handle it going for jobs in your field. But a better course of action is to make friends with somebody who does human resources for your chosen field and get an example resume that is ideal and have them troubleshoot yours. But for the love of god MH don't lie on your resume. Jobs come and go, but your integrity follows you for life.

Now Neal, get that wifey of yours in this thread pronto to offer her expert sage wisdom!

[Odin]

I've always been honest on my resume. Mostly just because that's how I am; in part because I'd forget if I put in something not accurate.

Resume should be one page. My father I think has page two now, but he's in his sixties. I suppose an exception if you have tended to be a contractor and worked on a ton of different projects; but even then.

There is absolutely no way I could communicate anything substantive about my qualifications and work history in a single page standard-resume format (where a huge chunk is lost to white space) in anything larger than a 4-point font. It entirely depends on what you've done in the past and what sort of jobs you're applying for. People who limit themselves to one page (either as employees or employers) can easily sell themselves short for the sake of brevity.

Sith

[The Meal]

Now Neal, get that wifey of yours in this thread pronto to offer her expert sage wisdom!

If I could make her unsick I'd have done that a week ago. Poor woman.

Your point about what's appropriate changing from field to field is very germane. There's a whole lot of "understood information" in four simple letters on my resume: MSME that other fields may not have similar appropriate acronyms/abbreviations.

That said, my wife has seen some *monster* resumes (3+) pages of folks in my field and they're an absolute hoot.

~Neal

[farley2k]

So it's true that a resume shouldn't be more than one page, right?

I'm producing my first real resume here (I need a job in May), and I have no idea at all how to do it. And, dammit, my stupid job here at SMU has prevented me from accruing any relevant interning experience.

I'm never going to find a job. I suck.

No way. This is one of those old wives tales. Check out any of the thousands of resume sites (places that help you write a resume) they give different answers as to max page number but none say it has to be 1 or less.

It is just stupid really. I have worked in IT for 7 years and quite honestly I couldn't fit what I have done on one page unless I put it in such vague generalties as to be useless to someone.

[Kraken]

So it's true that a resume shouldn't be more than one page, right?

You get some slack as you build up a history. Mine is two pages. The first is a bullet list of skills. The second is a chronological employment and education history.

Mine's here, if you'd like to see two different ways to present the same information. The doc version that goes out via email is cut down from the web version; my cover letters always have a link to the web version. Being that I've been chronically unemployed for most of this century, I don't know how good a guide it is...but employers and recruiters do nibble every now and then.

[Interloper]

Don't pad my resume and never had the thought cross my mind. It could end my career for good if I was to do so, as they do extensive and serious background checks on us. And I hate it when people do. Really, really hate it!