KotOR - way more fun to be evil?

msurby · Post by **msurby** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:39 pm

I just restarted KotOR this week and Taris is just so much more fun if you go for the dark side. Does this pretty much hold up through the whole game. Seems to me that dark has a lot of advantages over light:

Cooler powers: Choke, lightning, life drain
More cash: "Ooh, I just couldn't take any money for helping you, sir!" STFU!
Awesome dialog: "You monster! How could you just leave him out there to die!"
Clueless comrades: Carth "You can't just kill this guy!" Carth: Zap! Zap! Zap! (Thanks for the help Carth)

So far it is a blast and a refreshing change of pace.

croman · Post by **croman** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:12 pm

The Dark Side is ALOT more fun.. there one part later on in the game that I would honestly describe as The Best gaming experience that I have ever had

Butterknife · Post by **Butterknife** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:15 pm

I just couldn't bring myself to play the Dark Side. I tried, but I couldn't do it.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:21 pm

Honestly, I didn't see NEARLY enough difference in the two paths. I played it both ways (never quite finished as evil - got bored for the reasons below) and found that there was almost never an advantage to being evil - if you took the easy way and just slaughtered quest-givers and such, you just missed out on the quests. In most cases, you still had to "be nice" and complete the quest if you wanted the reward. When you talk to the Jedi, you get the option to [Lie] for every response, but the answers (and their effect) is the same. I tried really really hard to be as evil as possible and found that it was just more work. The game doesn't really accommodate it as well as it could have. Granted, I might not have noticed it as much if I hadn't played through as good first.

Sith

yossar · Post by **yossar** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:50 pm

Sith Lord wrote:Honestly, I didn't see NEARLY enough difference in the two paths.

No, but the alternative would be to thrown in extra content that a lot of players (ie those who only play through once) would never see. Replayability is nice, but I'd rather have an RPG with a single great path and a bit of light and dark flavor than an RPG with a mediocre dark path and a mediocre light path. Having a great dark path and a great light path would of course be awesome, but maybe asking for a bit too much.

noun · Post by **noun** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:51 pm

It depends if you played as selfish or psychotic. Sure, some of the over the top dialogue did lead to a confrontation and subsequent murder, but that had limited appeal for me. It was much more fun to lie and extort my way to riches, which allowed me to buy the best gear in the game (and keep the body count relatively low). Plus, the dark side powers are infinitely more fun to play than the light side powers. Gimp: see "light side Jedi".

And come on - an added bonus of verbally abusing Carth the whole game, and the wimp would take it and come back for more? Who could turn that down?

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:04 pm

Yes, killing everybody you see is psychotic, not just evil. Being greedy, selfish, choosing profit or power over others' needs and so on are non-psychotic evil character choices.

At least it isn't Temple Of Elemental Evil. There 'evil' amounted to being moderately rude.

"Will you save my daughter?"

1. "Of course! 'Tis right!"
2. "Of course! Poopy head!"

TheMissingLink · Post by **TheMissingLink** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:47 pm

I've been playing Kotor2 on the dark side and it's tough! I've done some pretty horrible things! At first, I was a bit apprehensive...but as my character became more evil and evil-looking, I got into it. I'm enjoying myself

martindemon · Post by **martindemon** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:42 pm

I had way more fun with the light side. I actually felt bad when on the dark side. I played it as an experience and it left me feeling empty in the end. Very empty. Like I had scpapped the game. After that, I'll never "play" a game where I'm evil.

Rincewind · Post by **Rincewind** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:11 pm

noun wrote:It depends if you played as selfish or psychotic. Sure, some of the over the top dialogue did lead to a confrontation and subsequent murder, but that had limited appeal for me. It was much more fun to lie and extort my way to riches, which allowed me to buy the best gear in the game (and keep the body count relatively low). Plus, the dark side powers are infinitely more fun to play than the light side powers. Gimp: see "light side Jedi".

And come on - an added bonus of verbally abusing Carth the whole game, and the wimp would take it and come back for more? Who could turn that down?

THis is exactly how I played my Sith (I played an absolutely untouchably golden Light Side Jedi first). I figured my dude was not a mass murderer, he was a mostly a moral power-hungry Sith with lots of power to use and one goal in mind. It did him little good to simply slaughter everyone-indeed, in some circumstances it would be less efficient for him to let someone cavalierly die then for my evil guy to save him. But, force persuade for money or easy access-done. Someone stops me and wants money=dead. Someone double crosses me=dead. Chaotic Neutral perhaps?

Yog-Sothoth · Post by **Yog-Sothoth** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:55 pm

I found the DS ending to be much more satisfying than the LS ending.

And there's one DS part on Dantooine which is totally hilarious... in a dark, sadistic, kind of way

There were a couple of places where I did the LS approach because I figured that my character would not want to ruin a resource he clearly would want to have once he took over the galaxy.

If I ever play DS again, I'm going to hack my Repair skill up so I can get HK-47. Canderous is probably better, but I hear HK can be lots of fun.

Dhruin · Post by **Dhruin** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:18 pm

yossar wrote:
Sith Lord wrote:Honestly, I didn't see NEARLY enough difference in the two paths.
No, but the alternative would be to thrown in extra content that a lot of players (ie those who only play through once) would never see. Replayability is nice, but I'd rather have an RPG with a single great path and a bit of light and dark flavor than an RPG with a mediocre dark path and a mediocre light path. Having a great dark path and a great light path would of course be awesome, but maybe asking for a bit too much.

I thought the light and dark side in KotOR was both a major theme and the major "roleplaying" mechanism, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to ask for both paths to be developed. Developers obviously have to balance their resources but I think it could be done with a little more scripting rather than additional content.

To me, the dark side was clearly underdeveloped and much of the game favoured the light.

**** Some spoilers ****

For example, I was disappointed that Juhani could be redeemed and recruited for the light side but coudn't be recruited for the dark. Why the hell not? I'm dark, she's dark - why is killing her my only choice?

Why must dark side characters train and join the Jedi only to encounter the Sith training facility as an outsider further in the game? Why can't dark characters go straight to the Sith, especially when no new areas are needed - they're already there.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:38 pm

Dhruin wrote:
SPOILERS:

Why must dark side characters train and join the Jedi only to encounter the Sith training facility as an outsider further in the game? Why can't dark characters go straight to the Sith, especially when no new areas are needed - they're already there.

Because in the game, whether you are dark or not, you are working for the Jedi Council - at least at the beginning. After escaping Taris you have to go to Dantooine for the Council to figure out what to do with you, and then send you on your mission. It makes no sense to go the the Sith Academy because how do you even know to go there? You don't even have a knowledge of the Star Maps - you get that on Dantooine.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:44 pm

Dhruin wrote:
SPOILERS:

For example, I was disappointed that Juhani could be redeemed and recruited for the light side but coudn't be recruited for the dark. Why the hell not? I'm dark, she's dark - why is killing her my only choice?

You aren't light or darkside at that early point in the game. The game is a voyage of discovery to a certain extent. Who will the new Revan be? You can't recruit Juhanni to the darkside because early on, since you are working for the Council, it makes no sense. Say you do recruit Juhanni to the darkside? Is Bastilla who may be with you going to approve? Sure, on some bad acts you do she's going to give you grief, but I doubt that she's not going to say nothing to the Council about you recruiting Jedi tot the darkside. And what about the Council? They sent you to cleanse the grove - so Juhanni goes back to the Council, explains you're recruited her to the darkside? Sure the Council will go along with that, won't they?

Point is, even though in your player's mind you're going to play darkside, from the character's point, he's not darkside until the very end. He can choose dark actions, but his final choosing of an alignment doesn't occur until the end.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 7:45 pm

***Spoilers***

Dhruin wrote: For example, I was disappointed that Juhani could be redeemed and recruited for the light side but coudn't be recruited for the dark. Why the hell not? I'm dark, she's dark - why is killing her my only choice?

Yeah, that was my biggest disappointment (though it wasn't the only one). I could kill her and gain nothing (except dark side points, of which I had tons) or I could let her live and she'd go all goody-two-shoes.

Along similar lines, the feuding families on Dantooine seemed to have some potential scripts that would allow me to screw them both over royally, but then they didnt' really seem to work - the evil choices stopped showing up as you progressed further along.

I should be clear - I didn't JUST try playing as a butcher. I wanted to play as a BAD GUY - a real sith-type, but the game just wouldn't let me. The worst I could manage most of the time (without really hosing up the linear progression of the game) was to be naughty.

Sith

Dhruin · Post by **Dhruin** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:39 pm

Grifman wrote:
Dhruin wrote:
SPOILERS:

For example, I was disappointed that Juhani could be redeemed and recruited for the light side but coudn't be recruited for the dark. Why the hell not? I'm dark, she's dark - why is killing her my only choice?
You aren't light or darkside at that early point in the game. The game is a voyage of discovery to a certain extent. Who will the new Revan be? You can't recruit Juhanni to the darkside because early on, since you are working for the Council, it makes no sense. Say you do recruit Juhanni to the darkside? Is Bastilla who may be with you going to approve? Sure, on some bad acts you do she's going to give you grief, but I doubt that she's not going to say nothing to the Council about you recruiting Jedi tot the darkside. And what about the Council? They sent you to cleanse the grove - so Juhanni goes back to the Council, explains you're recruited her to the darkside? Sure the Council will go along with that, won't they?

Point is, even though in your player's mind you're going to play darkside, from the character's point, he's not darkside until the very end. He can choose dark actions, but his final choosing of an alignment doesn't occur until the end.

Which goes precisely to my point that the dark side is underdeveloped and the design favours the lightside. I am only working for the Council because I was given absolutely no choice in the matter. What do I care what Bastila thinks - some woman I met for the first time a few hours/days ago?

Yes, I realise changes would have to be made to accomodate this (such as the discovery of the Star Maps on Dantooine - although, really, perhaps it would have made more sense, anyway. The Star Maps are undiscovered a few hundred metres from the Jedi Academy?

). My point is that the dark vs light system, which is central to the whole game, is not very deep but better developed for the light side - in my opinion.

Napoleon · Post by **Napoleon** » Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:30 am

Yog-Sothoth wrote:If I ever play DS again, I'm going to hack my Repair skill up so I can get HK-47. Canderous is probably better, but I hear HK can be lots of fun.

Man, best character in the entire game. That guy had me laughing so hard my sides hurt.

Dark Side IS more fun (the goody two shoes routine got a wee bit tiring at the end of the LS story, IMHO) but...near the end there's an absolutely brutal dark side moment that made me feel pretty bad. But then I thought back to all the annoying characters I insulted and I felt good again

Asharak · Post by **Asharak** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:52 am

You know, I just can't make myself be evil. Every time I start one of these games I say to myself "this time I'm gonna be a badass", but every time I wimp out of choosing the insulting/cruel game options.

I've gone through the first three areas of KOTOR2, and I've already attained Light Side mastery, and Kreia has already complained numerous times that I'm too nice. And hey, it has the added bonus of making Visas like me, and that chick is hot, even without eyes.

- Ash

Faldarian · Post by **Faldarian** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 5:01 pm

I can't play the bad guys, either. I try, but as soon as it comes to making a decision that requires real cruelty I just don't have the stomach for it even in a game.

I've heard KOTOR 2 has a better dark side progression than the first game so I'll probably try it, but I know I'll never finish it that way.

IHateMorrowind · Post by **IHateMorrowind** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:35 am

Asharak wrote:You know, I just can't make myself be evil. Every time I start one of these games I say to myself "this time I'm gonna be a badass", but every time I wimp out of choosing the insulting/cruel game options.

I've gone through the first three areas of KOTOR2, and I've already attained Light Side mastery, and Kreia has already complained numerous times that I'm too nice. And hey, it has the added bonus of making Visas like me, and that chick is hot, even without eyes.

- Ash

I know the moment you're talking about. I enjoyed it. Immensely.

Kyosho · Post by **Kyosho** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:38 am

I have problems playing bad characters too. No matter how hard I tried, I could never play Planescape: Torment as an evil character. I was always paranoid that it'd mess something up or something.

The only one I've been able to be evil in and enjoy it is Morrowind. Simply because I know it doesn't matter.

Samurai · Post by **Samurai** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:44 am

HK 47

Favorite Droid EVAR

My first time playing through KOTOR I was good, and kept him out of my party. But if you play as a evil (and I do think theres a difference between being just an evil/selfish guy and a chaotic murdering backstabber) character, have him by your sides at all times. He chimes in with such great comments.

DD · Post by DD » Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:44 am

My third time through I played evil, just like the 2nd time, but with different characters. I let HK have his way with the Sand People - loads of fun!

Now if there was only some way to skip the whole intro piece, I might play it again. I just hated the whole part before you get to the first planet.