Barssom-go Round 2 - Now Showing

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:19 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v XX 1> 1v XX
2 3> 44 <2 3v XX 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX 1^ XX XX 2^ XX

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

H5 placed

Grundbegriff
0 0 3: 3
Remus West
0 1 2: -1
Chaosraven
2 0 1: -1
stessier
0 1 3: -2

Remus West wrote:Double check my scoring, I think I got it right but the result looks wrong to me.

It's right, you dropped two and I went up one.
----------------------

stessier

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:24 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v XX 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v XX 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX 1^ XX XX 2^ XX

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

H1 placed

Grundbegriff
0 0 3: 3
Remus West
0 1 2: -1
Chaosraven
2 0 1: -1
stessier
0 1 2: -2

Grund

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:39 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v XX 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX 1^ XX XX 2^ XX

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

E2 placed

Grundbegriff
0 0 2: 3
Remus West
0 1 2: -1
Chaosraven
2 0 1: -1
stessier
0 1 2: -2

Remus

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:19 pm

I actually think I figured out enough of this game to think that was a meh play by grund...

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:22 pm

Semaj wrote:I actually think I figured out enough of this game to think that was a meh play by grund...

I'm still new here, but I'm pretty sure that was the only play for Grund.

His next one might be more interesting.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:27 pm

There was another play he could have made, it'd have cost him, (And he'd probably have lost his one free move) but would have opened up a few more moves and it wont be there next turn......?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:42 pm

Semaj wrote:There was another play he could have made, it'd have cost him, (And he'd probably have lost his one free move) but would have opened up a few more moves and it wont be there next turn......?

Yeah, but the math works out better this way.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:18 pm

[quote="Grundbegriff"]_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v XX 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX 1^ <2 XX 2^ XX

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

E8 placed

Grundbegriff
0 0 2: 3
Remus West
0 0 2: -1
Chaosraven
2 0 1: -1
stessier
0 1 2: -2

Chaosraven

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:24 pm

Remus, you're killing me here...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:31 pm

stessier wrote:Remus, you're killing me here...

You can feel free to fill that hole. I have no chance if I spend time blocking Grund rather than creating outs for myself. Completely self-serving action and I freely admit that.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:42 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v XX 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX 1^ <2 XX 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

don't H8 tha playa, H8 tha Game

Grundbegriff
0 0 2: 3
Remus West
0 0 2: -1
Chaosraven
2 0 0: -1
stessier
0 1 2: -2

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:46 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v 1> 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX 1^ <2 XX 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

E1 placed

Grundbegriff
0 0 2: 3
Remus West
0 0 2: -1
Chaosraven
2 0 0: -1
stessier
0 1 1: -2

(Chaos, I find that move to be less than ideal from your perspective. Remind me to ask you to explain when this is done.

)

Grund

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:07 pm

I understand it.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:09 pm

C6 would have been an equal choice at this stage

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:12 pm

Remus West wrote:I understand it.

Understanding it and thinking it's the right choice are two different things. With 8 moves left it could still be a worse than others move. It has done at least three major things stragically that I have seen to influence those last 8 moves. Not all of those three things are necessarily good for him.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:24 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v 1> 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX 1> 1^ <2 XX 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

C8 placed
-1 Grundbegriff
+1 Remus

Grundbegriff
0 0 1: 2
Remus West
0 0 2: 0
Chaosraven
2 0 0: -1
stessier
0 1 1: -2

Remus

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:28 pm

[quote="Grundbegriff"]_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v 1> 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX 1> 1> 1^ <2 XX 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

b8 placed
+1 Grundbegriff
-1 Remus

Grundbegriff
0 0 1: 3
Remus West
0 0 1: -1
Chaosraven
2 0 0: -1
stessier
0 1 1: -2

Chaosraven

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:30 pm

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:45 pm

Strategy notes:

Use the 2s:
The best use of a high value widget is to set a trap-- to create a position where someone else will have to point at that widget.
A 3 is always better than a 2 for this purpose.
A 1 is always worse than a 2 for this purpose.
Therefore, it's nearly always best to unload all the 2s first. Any good use of a 2 during the second half of the game is an even better use for a 3. Any bad use for a 2 is better achieved by spending a 1.

Use the 3s structurally, not tactically:
You'll try to lay some traps with the 3s in the middle of the game.
Everyone will be avoiding everyone else's 3s.
Most of your 3s will end up surrounded by pieces that point elsewhere.
The person most likely to end up pointing at your 3s, if anyone does, is you.
Therefore, use the 3s to claim space; don't sweat the traps issue.

Think in terms of opening up connection points for yourself:
The spirit of the game is to extend your tree in a way that opens up contact points that would be costly for others to block: first 2s, then 3s, and finally 1s. Some fudging is fine, but it's fundamentally a game of colonization and defense.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:30 pm

A few questions on moves that have been bugging me. Please don't take this as criticism. I'm just trying to learn how to play better.

*******************************************************
_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v XX XX XX XX XX XX
2 3> 44 <2 v3 XX XX XX XX
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 XX XX
4 3^ 1^ XX 1> 2> 2v XX XX
5 XX XX 00 XX 2v 3v XX XX
6 XX XX XX XX 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 XX XX XX XX XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX XX XX XX 2^ XX

Grundbegriff
4 1 4: 2
Remus West
3 2 4: 0
Chaosraven
4 1 4: -2
stessier
2 3 5: 0

Chaos places G8.

Why did you place a 1 at H 7 only to follow with a 2 at G8? Seems like a 2 at H7 would have been a better trap. (I can understand not following with a 1 at G8 as it would have been to easy for someone to point off it at that time.)

*******************************************************

_ aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v XX XX XX XX XX XX
2 3> 44 <2 v3 XX XX XX XX
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v XX
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 XX
5 XX 3^ 00 XX 2v 3v XX XX
6 XX 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 XX XX XX XX XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX XX XX XX 2^ XX

Grundbegriff
2 1 4: 3
Remus West
2 2 4: 0
Chaosraven
4 1 3: -2
stessier
1 2 5: -1

Grund placed C4.

Why did you use a 3 here? Just trying to dump high point values?

*******************************************************

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v XX XX 1v XX
2 3> 44 <2 3v XX 3> 1v XX
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 XX
5 XX 3^ 00 XX 2v 3v XX XX
6 3> 2^ XX 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 XX XX 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX XX XX XX XX XX 2^ XX

Grundbegriff
1 1 3: 3
Remus West
0 2 3: 1
Chaosraven
3 0 3: -2
stessier
0 2 4: -2

Remus places at C1.

Okay, this one annoyed and puzzled me. Why, oh why, did you go to C1 and not E1 or E2???

*******************************************************

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:33 pm

stessier wrote:Grund placed C4.

Why did you use a 3 here? Just trying to dump high point values?

Because I was thinking of the 00 as a valid placement point rather than a null.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:38 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Because I was thinking of the 00 as a valid placement point rather than a null.

Ah. Yes, that would have been a much better move that way. Bummer.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:45 pm

stessier, I went to c1 instead of e1 or e2 because I had very few options left. I wanted to take the options away from YOU as much as possible because I could already see Grund was going to be forced to play on someone else while you had clear sailing. I would have done the same to CR if I could have safely placed to cut into his option even that little bit that I did yours. It was purely to protect myself from getting forced into one of your 3x3 traps. I needed to maximize my own outs.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:50 pm

Remus West wrote:stessier, I went to c1 instead of e1 or e2 because I had very few options left. I wanted to take the options away from YOU as much as possible because I could already see Grund was going to be forced to play on someone else while you had clear sailing. I would have done the same to CR if I could have safely placed to cut into his option even that little bit that I did yours. It was purely to protect myself from getting forced into one of your 3x3 traps. I needed to maximize my own outs.

The way I saw it, we could have forced Grund to point to someone else much sooner had you gone to E1 or 2. I understand taking away my options, but I was fighting just to get options at that point and that square would have been open to your for a while yet. I think you could have had your cake and eaten it too.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:25 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v 1> 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ 3> 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 XX 1> 1> 1^ <2 XX 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

C6

Grundbegriff
0 0 1: 3
Remus West
0 0 1: -1
Chaosraven
1 0 0: -1
stessier
0 1 1: -2

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:38 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 XX 3v 3> 3v 1> 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ 3> 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 2^ 1> 1> 1^ <2 XX 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

A8

Grundbegriff
0 0 1: 3
Remus West
0 0 1: -1
Chaosraven
1 0 0: -1
stessier
0 0 1: -2

Grund

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:55 pm

stess gets major points now...

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:02 pm

mipe wrote:stess gets major points now...

Not so many...I have to fill one of those spots.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:05 pm

stessier wrote:
mipe wrote:stess gets major points now...
Not so many...I have to fill one of those spots.

I'd put out my prediction but that's dangerously close kibbitzing even if I assume the last four plays are locked in everyone's interest for self preservation.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:06 pm

LordMortis wrote:I'd put out my prediction but that's dangerously close kibbitzing even if I assume the last four plays are locked in everyone's interest for self preservation.

Feel free to send it to me. It can't affect what I do in the least.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:19 pm

_ aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 1> 3v 3> 3v 1> 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ 3> 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 2^ 1> 1> 1^ <2 XX 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

A1
Grundbegriff: -3
stessier: +1

Grundbegriff
0 0 0: 0
Remus West
0 0 1: -1
Chaosraven
1 0 0: -1
stessier
0 0 1: -1

Remus

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:23 pm

_aa BB cc DD ee FF gg HH
1 1> 3v 3> 3v 1> 1> 1v 1<
2 3> 44 <2 3v 1> 3> 1v <3
3 2^ 2^ <2 <2 <3 00 1v <3
4 3^ 1^ 3> 1> 2> 2v <3 2^
5 XX 3^ 00 1v 2v 3v 2v 1v
6 3> 2^ 3> 1> 2> 2> 2v 3v
7 2^ 3> 3> 2^ XX 2> 44 <1
8 2^ 1> 1> 1^ <2 <1 2^ 1^

0 is a Null square
4 is a Root square

F8

Grundbegriff
0 0 0: 0
Remus West
0 0 0: -1
Chaosraven
1 0 0: -1
stessier
0 0 1: -1

Chaosraven

Good Game Grund. Good Game all.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:28 pm

Not so fast-- Chaosraven could still gift stessier with a tie.
And stessier could gift Remus with one. Final: 0 0 0 -4

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:47 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Not so fast-- Chaosraven could still gift stessier with a tie.
And stessier could gift Remus with one. Final: 0 0 0 -4

We don't take kindly to king makers... unless there are politics in the game.

I still don't get ravens play the Remus understood for several reasons. One. All other things being equal, D6 cuts off a possible move by Stess. Two. With all things not being equal, why would cut off a spot where somone has the option to play on one of your ones when you could cut off other peoples advancement? The only reasons I can see is either to force someone to play on one of your larger pieces later or trying to force someone else who is losing to make a different play based on your looking relatively worse.

More realistically, I would have counted Remus' outs (4) and cut off his only "1" at D8 making the choice between pointing at raven and pointing at remus more ambiguous.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:01 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:Not so fast-- Chaosraven could still gift stessier with a tie.
And stessier could gift Remus with one. Final: 0 0 0 -4

If I play my 3, stessier gets 3, I lose 3.

Grundbegriff
0 0 0: 0
Remus West
0 0 0: -1
Chaosraven
0 0 0: -4
stessier
0 0 1: 2

Then stessier plays his 1 on either remus or myself.
+1 to me, -2 to him

leaving him tied with grund at 0

+1 to remus, -2 to stessier

remus grund stessier tied at 0.

I suppose if we were keeping a running track, I'd rather have 3 tied, but stessier would get to decide where the points go. Tie for stessier and Grund.

But, yeah, I fucked up a couple of spots.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:41 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:Not so fast-- Chaosraven could still gift stessier with a tie.
And stessier could gift Remus with one. Final: 0 0 0 -4

If I play my 3, stessier gets 3, I lose 3.

Grundbegriff
0 0 0: 0
Remus West
0 0 0: -1
Chaosraven
0 0 0: -4
stessier
0 0 1: 2

Then stessier plays his 1 on either remus or myself.
+1 to me, -2 to him

leaving him tied with grund at 0

+1 to remus, -2 to stessier

remus grund stessier tied at 0.

I suppose if we were keeping a running track, I'd rather have 3 tied, but stessier would get to decide where the points go. Tie for stessier and Grund.

But, yeah, I fucked up a couple of spots.

You could gift me with the points ya know. After all, I've known you how many years? Been your friend how long. In all this time have I ever not helped you in a game? Have I ever backstabbed you in a game? Killed you online while sitting at the table playing Settlers with you?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:03 pm

It is still your play Chaos"the delayer of the inevitable"raven

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:59 pm

I thought we had already proved Grund won if everyone played with their best interest at heart. I'd certainly enjoy it if Chaos made me win, but it doesn't seem very sporting.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:22 pm

You mean you guys think I'll actually put a move in so Grund doesn't win?

Keep dreamin'

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:21 pm

I just figured you would put a move in so the game actually finishes Mr Quitterman.