Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:41 pm**

For context, my cycling cardio tends to sit at 75-80 revs without too much strain, which would be a 150-160 cadence.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:42 am**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:38 pm FWIW, I asked my brother tonight what his cadence is. He said 182 for typical training runs and 190s (!) for a 5k.

On those 5Ks at 190 cadence, I’d be interested to know his typical mile pace.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:41 am**

Kurth wrote:
Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:38 pm FWIW, I asked my brother tonight what his cadence is. He said 182 for typical training runs and 190s (!) for a 5k.
On those 5Ks at 190 cadence, I’d be interested to know his typical mile pace.

A bit sub-6.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 10:13 am**

Tracked my cadence this am. Low 170s @ 8:20 pace. Guess I have some work to do...

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:44 am**

coopasonic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:35 am
coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:45 pm I did a mile in 26 minutes this afternoon!

Note: I had back surgery last week. These times may eventually improve.
23 minutes last night. I can probably get it close to 20 but hard to go much faster than that without actually running (yes, Isgrimbot I know of speed walking, but I don't think I'm allowed to do that either) and I'm not allowed to run for another 5 weeks.

Sub-20 last night. If I can just trim another 14 minutes or so off that time...

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:49 am**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:41 am
Kurth wrote:
Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:38 pm FWIW, I asked my brother tonight what his cadence is. He said 182 for typical training runs and 190s (!) for a 5k.
On those 5Ks at 190 cadence, I’d be interested to know his typical mile pace.
A bit sub-6.

Wow. That’s booking!

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:57 am**

Yeah, he's alright.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:24 pm**

that's about where I'm at too. the low 170 cadence at 8:20 pace, not the sub 6.

hey Zaxxon, I might be losing a runner from our Ragnar team, you have some interest in maybe joining if I need a replacement?

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Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:33 pm**

Depending on the timing, definitely. A Ragnar is on my bucket list, but getting a team has been difficult. Might be able to wrangle my bro as well if needed.

Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:14 pm**

Zaxxon wrote:Depending on the timing, definitely. A Ragnar is on my bucket list, but getting a team has been difficult. Might be able to wrangle my bro as well if needed.

I have a team already paid for and signed up. I have one runner that told me this week he might not be able to run. I'm just on the lookout for a possible replacement.

August 10-11, Copper to Aspen.

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Posted: **Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:55 pm**

Cool. Let me know if he drops.

Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:15 am**

If there’s ever any interest in forming an OO Ragnar team, I’d potentially be up for that, too, depending on location and timing. Would be fun!

Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:24 am**

Agreed. I'd be down for that, too. Especially if it was in or near Colorado.

Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:06 am**

depending on how this one goes, I'd be down for another in the fall

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Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:30 pm**

Zaxxon wrote:Cool. Let me know if he drops.

sent to you PM

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Posted: **Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:46 pm**

YGPM2. Thanks.

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:46 pm**

coopasonic wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:44 am
coopasonic wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:35 am
coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:45 pm I did a mile in 26 minutes this afternoon!

Note: I had back surgery last week. These times may eventually improve.
23 minutes last night. I can probably get it close to 20 but hard to go much faster than that without actually running (yes, Isgrimbot I know of speed walking, but I don't think I'm allowed to do that either) and I'm not allowed to run for another 5 weeks.
Sub-20 last night. If I can just trim another 14 minutes or so off that time...

16:45, so much for not being able to go sub-20 without running. I capped at 3.7mph pace which feels pretty quick for walking. I might be able to bump it up to 4 to get a 15:00 but I doubt I would want to go beyond that. I mean it this time.

Today I will see my back doc for my first post surgery visit. Post op instructions said to work up to walking a mile in 30 minutes. Check!

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:48 pm**

Nicely done, Coop.

FWIW, my treadmill desk (for walking only) tops out at 4.0 MPH, so I would think that's a pretty solid top-end for walking. Unless you're one of those crazy Olympic walkers with limbs made of rubber.

Posted: **Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:08 pm**

coopasonic wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:46 pm
16:45, so much for not being able to go sub-20 without running. I capped at 3.7mph pace which feels pretty quick for walking.

You need to read the book The Long Walk by Stephen King and re-evaluate.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:32 pm**

Seven weeks post back surgery, my physical therapist finally said I could run ONE mile and see how it went. I scoffed... then I started running at an 8 minute pace... for about a quarter mile. OK, so my cardio fitness has been demolished. I reset my expectations and ran a mile in 12 minutes. This recovery may take a while. I have to report back to her tomorrow before she will let me run any more. I am hoping for two miles this weekend!

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:39 pm**

Awesome, coop.

My own training has been progressing nicely (albeit intentionally slowly) lately. After adding a Ragnar to my summer schedule (thanks, Xmann!) I've been taking my runs seriously. This Saturday's run will mark nine weeks of 6-a-week runs without a miss. I'm only in the 18-20 miles/week range but the consistency has helped me keep the pace improving; most of my runs are around 8:00/mile, and the speed workouts are approaching 7:30. And yesterday I did my first 2-a-day without issue. By this point in many of my prior 'back at it' stretches of training I'd wind up hurting myself. I think going with the drawn-out but consistent approach is paying off for my old man body.

I'm hopeful that things continue improving. Next week is the last 'slow and steady' week before the 'real' half-marathon training plan kicks in for my end-of-June race and my weekly mileage starts to rise. I'm planning to keep the Wednesday 2-a-day going through that race, then add a second weekly 2-a-day for the month of July to get properly prepped for the August Ragnar.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:50 pm**

Don't push too hard Coop - don't want to go back under the knife!

I don't have a race yet for this year, so I've just been trying to maintain a 6 runs/week schedule. I hit it in Jan and am on pace for March, but February took a bit of a hit. The depression from the Super Bowl took a toll and both my mileage and frequency dropped.

I have to stop eating, though. I'm averaging 30 miles/week and have yet to lose a pound. I'm also trying to use the functions on my Forerunner 935 to tell me how hard the next run should be. I haven't quite broken the code, yet, and seem to be taking it too easy on my Easy days. What I really need is a coach, but who has money for that?

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:01 pm**

stessier wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:50 pm Don't push too hard Coop - don't want to go back under the knife!

Any more surgery this year is free, this is exactly the time to push too hard!

I kid.

stessier wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:50 pm I have to stop eating, though. I'm averaging 30 miles/week and have yet to lose a pound. I'm also trying to use the functions on my Forerunner 935 to tell me how hard the next run should be. I haven't quite broken the code, yet, and seem to be taking it too easy on my Easy days. What I really need is a coach, but who has money for that?

Are you already thin? Are you eating significantly more when you are running? I've found that running can really spike your appetite. Portion control is king for me.

Posted: **Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:21 pm**

coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:01 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:50 pm I have to stop eating, though. I'm averaging 30 miles/week and have yet to lose a pound. I'm also trying to use the functions on my Forerunner 935 to tell me how hard the next run should be. I haven't quite broken the code, yet, and seem to be taking it too easy on my Easy days. What I really need is a coach, but who has money for that?
Are you already thin? Are you eating significantly more when you are running? I've found that running can really spike your appetite. Portion control is king for me.

No, definitely not thin.

196 at 5'8". I don't think I am eating more than when I'm not running, but apparently I am. It's also possible my metabolism is slowing down a bit again. The last time was around 38 (i'm 45 this year). If it gets much slower, I'll probably be dead.

Posted: **Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:54 am**

and.....I have shin splints damnit!

I started to turn the corner a bit this week on my conditioning and wham, I'm out.

I've been very careful on my mileage and training, but still got it.

been running for 15+ years, first time.

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Posted: **Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:43 am**

Ugh. Shin splints are the worst. Best of luck.

Posted: **Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:17 pm**

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:43 am Ugh. Shin splints are the worst. Best of luck.

+10000

It's been years since I suffered, and for that I am grateful. I had really bad shin splints at E3 one year and was nearly incapacitated day 3. I never would have made it if not for boozing it up at vendor events.

Posted: **Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:54 pm**

I'm thinking my 10K at the end of May could be in doubt. The one race I have put off for years and finally decided to do it this year.

Hoping for the best, but I'm resting for at least 10 days before even thinking of doing a jog.

damnit

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Posted: **Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:57 pm**

Yeah, unfortunately the only reliable cure in my experience is a week or more of nada.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:14 pm**

2.5 miles at ~9:45 pace on a beautiful Saturday - a little more respectable, but a long way to go. The worst is that running 2.5 miles on my normal loop means a one mile walk home.

I don't think I have ever experienced shin splints, but I also have not run with any regularity since I was 16 years old

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:52 pm**

I'm being really proactive with this crap and I already feel a bit better.

I did some research and learned the herbal supplement Arnica Montana has been used in Eastern Medicine for things such as shin splints.

I went to my local health store and bought this herb in oil form. Twice a day I've had my wife do some massaging with the oil and sure enough, the pain I had 3 days ago has substantially subsided.

I'm also wearing my compression socks during the day I usually only run with.

Lastly, I have an appointment with an accupuncturist that essentially cured my chronic tendinitis I had a few years ago.

Hopefully I'm stopping this in it's early stages and I don't miss too much training.

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Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:46 pm**

Xmann wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 3:52 pm I did some research and learned the herbal supplement Arnica Montana has been used in Eastern Medicine for things such as shin splints.

I went to my local health store and bought this herb in oil form. Twice a day I've had my wife do some massaging with the oil and sure enough, the pain I had 3 days ago has substantially subsided.

See, I would have wanted you to do it to only one shin, with the other receiving a placebo in a double-blind study.

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:47 pm**

Massage mag

The most general of the three studies, “The Effect of Topical Arnica on Muscle Pain,” found that “Pain scores on legs treated with arnica were higher than scores on those receiving placebo 24 hours after exercise.”1

Fifty-three subjects participated in the randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Researchers first measured the active range of motion in both ankles of each participant, then the subjects did a series of calf raises according to a protocol. Following the exercise, subjects were given two tubes of cream, labeled “left” and “right,” one containing active arnica and the other a placebo. Participants were told to apply the cream immediately after exercise, then again 24 and 48 hours later.1

The researchers measured range of motion and muscle tenderness at 24, 48 and 72 hours post-exercise. Pain scores were higher for those treated with arnica 24 hours after exercise, but there was no significant difference at 48 or 72 hours later.1

The conclusion: “Rather than decreasing leg pain, arnica was found to increase leg pain 24 hours after eccentric calf exercises.”1

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:54 pm**

nowhere near my experience.

I was having trouble walking 3 days ago and I'm having little pain now.

Could it be something other than arnica? Quite possibly. All I know and care is that my discomfort has improved since using it.

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Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:46 pm**

Xmann wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:54 pm nowhere near my experience.

I was having trouble walking 3 days ago and I'm having little pain now.

Could it be something other than arnica? Quite possibly. All I know and care is that my discomfort has improved since using it.

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But shin splints are not all the same thing

It could be the massaging itself

Posted: **Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:53 pm**

very true.

all I know is what I've done so far is relieving my symptoms.

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Posted: **Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:28 pm**

coopasonic wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:14 pm I don't think I have ever experienced shin splints, but I also have not run with any regularity since I was 16 years old

I never got them from running. The first time it was from playing basketball. Subsequent times it's been from walking (I've always walked a lot).

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:40 pm**

I'd never heard any talk of running cadence before it came up recently in this thread. I was bored on the treadmill on Sunday and checking mine. 162... I guess I need to crank it up. The funny thing is that I was starting to extend my stride because it felt like my stride was too short... apparently it's the opposite. That or my stride is fine and I am just not turning it over fast enough! I have to get used to the treadmill again so I can get back up to speed.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:49 pm**

Yeah, it was counter-intuitive to me, as well. Lately I've been shortening my stride slightly while turning over more. Targeting 180 but not there yet.

Largely unrelated: I ran a 5k this past weekend and came in 3rd.

It was a light field. The winner finished just shy of 17 minutes, 2nd place was about 19 minutes, and then there was me more than four minutes behind him.

I don't have an explanation for this field--3rd out of 70+ dudes with a time that I'm happy with for 2018 me, but that frankly would normally put me well behind 3rd place.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:29 pm**

Yeah, 23+ wouldn't get you into the top 10 in the 50+ group around here. Not that I could do that these days either.

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