Terror from the Deep (repurposed).

[GreenGoo]

Hi. I recently started playing Freedom Force and wanted to talk about it, so I found Little Raven's thread and posted in it. Except that I also started playing X-com at the same time, and X-com began to dominate my time. Part way through my X-com game I switched over to Terror. I had filled post after post of a Freedom Force thread with my posts about Terror, pretty much by accident.

In an attempt to rectify that situation somewhat, I'm moving all X-com related posts from that thread to here. Probably a waste of time but at least from this moment onward I won't be cluttering up the other thread and this thread can be on topic, for the most part.

Laziness says to put all the text in 1 big post, but it's not much more effort to leave them all in their own posts, which would probably make it more legible. I guess I'll put them in their own posts.

Edit: I should point out, although it's probably obvious of you've taken a look at the posts, that this AAR is pretty half-assed. I'm just writing random observations and thoughts I have while I play the game. It's not intended to be a thorough AAR. There will be no screen shots. If it were a full blown AAR I would have been sure to poll OO for names who wanted to participate. Nothing better than putting people on point. Anyway, more to come as I progress in the game.

[GreenGoo]

Playing X-com again as well, for the millionth time.

Kasey, do you still want stamps? I was reading your FF faq last night and walked by a place selling stamps today. I guess current Canadian stamps aren't much from a collector's standpoint. Let me know and I'll probably mail some off. Probably.

[GreenGoo]

Good lord, having just the most amazing time with Freedom Force and X-com. Freedom Force has just awesome atmosphere and of course X-com, well, nothing new to be said there.

Except maybe that my 5 year old said he was "afraid" while watching me play, and hid under the desk when, after 5 turns of suspense building non-action, a Gray popped out of hiding and whacked one of my scouts. I looked down at him with scorn, asking him who would save the earth if not he and I. He looked up, grinned sheepishly, and resumed his vigil at my side. We high fived at the end of the successful mission and gleefully chortled as we speculated on what treasures our scientists might uncover in the ruins.

Crazy fun family X-com moment.

[GreenGoo]

Switched over to Terror from the Deep for a bunch of different reasons.

On the plus side my son is learning lot of new dialogue. Submerged. Aquatic. Inarticulate screams of frustration. Things like that.

Also, using a sunken airplane as cover is a bad idea, I learned last night. All of it is explosive. Every single part. Engine? Of course. Fuselage? Yep. Wings? Ditto.

Apparently planes are made out of C4 (with accompanying blasting cap/trigger/whatever it takes to trigger it exploding).

[GreenGoo]

You can use it as cover, but stay a couple of squares back from the actual walls. You can blow your own holes in it too to shoot through.

[GreenGoo]

Do you still need to unload clips that have been partially emptied in Terror from the Deep? I know you had to do this in X-Com as a half full clip would disappear at the end of combat if it was still in a weapon. Unloading the weapon preserved the clip and refilled it.

I kind of do this from habit now, but it is kind of tedious and if I could stop doing it that would be great. Kasey's faq claims you have to do it exactly as you do in X-Com, but I thought this had been fixed in Terror.

Any ideas? I'm WAY too lazy to test this, since I would need to pay too close attention before, during and after combat to get a sure answer.

[GreenGoo]

Had a really excellent Terror mission dust up at the end of Month one. End result. 14 dead aquanauts, 11 dead aliens, 13 dead civvies, 1 lost sub. Final score -777 points.

I don't enjoy full blown Ironman in X-com. too many things can go wrong. But neither do I enjoy saving every 1/2 turn (even though instinct tells me to). For this fight, if I had managed to finish it with at least 1 living 'naut, I probably would have saved and moved on. It was that good of a brawl. It was a definite knock down drag out fight. The only major incident was when a gill man lobbed a grenade over the top of my sub onto all my exiting 'nauts. I lost 6 right there, and don't really see how I could have prevented it. The rest were all excellent cat and mouse contests.

Terror definitely plays differently from the original. Your weapons are punier. The aliens are tougher. The maps are larger (both good and bad, from an enjoyment standpoint).

The gillmen were taking 2-4 shots from the harpoon guns before falling. Since it is more difficult to have everyone use automatic fire mode due to cost of ammo and smaller clips, you can't just spray whole areas down with fire any more. I use a lot more fast moving scouts with stun rods now as well. They usually have a low bravery rating so if they go nuts they can't open fire on their own squad.

I had 2 snipers with the heavy gas cannons. The X-com equivalent of this weapon is garbage, but in Terror, with no weapons tech yet (I researched motion detector to get some income from my engineers and then medikit in the mistaken belief that my guys could survive contact with the enemy like in X-com), my snipers were aim shotting everything the scouts could get a LoS to. Between the 2 snipers they had 7 kills. 1 aimed shot from a gas cannon wielding sniper (very accurate weapon, very accurate firing mode, very accurate 'naut) and an alien would drop, rather than 2-4 shots from the harpoon darts.

I had to switch over to HE rounds for a bit to dig some aliens out, so that cost the city some buildings, but what am I supposed to do? Lose all my 'nauts AND the mission? Heh, well, yeah that happened anyway.

While being an identical game to the first, the second game, with just a few tweaks to some stats, have significantly altered how a tactical session plays out. Fun.

It's easy to take losses lightly early on, but losing that Lt. with 4 months experience and 20 kills really pisses me off later in the game.

There is some game design magic in X-com, no question. The game's what? 15 years old now? And still incredibly fun to play, despite the blocky graphics and clunky interface.

[GreenGoo]

Replaying the entire Terror mission, lost 3 'nauts (only 1 wasn't a disposable bravery 10 scout), saved 4 civvies (yay?), captured 4 live aliens (only 1 wasn't a soldier, and it was a technician. Not worth much from a research standpoint). I did collect some deep one corpses, which will give me my first armour, which is even more badly needed in Terror than in X-com.

Research is along, but since I still don't have gauss rifles, all the really interesting stuff will have to wait. Manufacturing Medikits for the whole team + a few extras is almost complete. 6 gauss pistols complete, with ammo on the way. Motion detectors on hold while I make stuff to use, rather than sell.

40 scientist, 30 engineers and 25 aquanauts in my employ, at the 1/2 way mark through February. Living quarters for 150 people is nearing completion. Stores are a little less than 1/2 empty at 80/150 space utilized.

All consortiums were happy with X-com performance for the month of January, with a total increase of a little more than half a mil in funding.

Everything is moving forward nicely. The key in the next little while is to keep losses to a minimum while more powerful weapon followd by armour techs come online from the engineering workshops. Once that is complete a more focused approach can be made, and we can shift from just trying to stem the tide to making headway towards solving and ending the mystery of these water borne nightmares.

[GreenGoo]

Terror Mission #2. All 14 'nauts lost. Sub lost. Score -628.

Sigh. Whoever thought it would be a good idea to have an alien on the opposite side of the sub as the exit door on turn one, have the alien tough enough to take the few shots that hit from the few 'nauts capable of getting in range so early to actually fire, then lob a grenade over the sub right in the middle of the deployment area needs a beat down.

Last Terror mission took me 75 turns to lose all my 'nauts. This time it only took 42. In my defense, that first grenade killed 6 and fatally injured 2. So I was down 8 'nauts by the start of turn 3. Most of the survivors were disposable bravery 10 scouts, which made the rest of the mission fun as they continually panicked, berserked and generally had zero movement points for me to play with.

Guess I get to reload.

[GreenGoo]

Oh yes, success! 4 surviving aquanauts limped back to base. What a meat grinder. And I lost 1 guy on the last turn because a Deep One I stunned earlier awakened and hid in a closet. Sigh.

Even though 10 brave souls lost their lives defending Midway, there will only be funeral services for 5. Aliens were explosive happy, and we couldn't find enough of the other 5 to put in a shoe box. I'd say 50-70% of X-com's losses came from alien pineapples.

I'm not reloading, which is a minor miracle for me, considering how poorly the mission went. Normally I would find such a poor showing unacceptable, but what the hell. Plus that's the second time I've played that mission to completion. A third time might make me quit. The missions are just a smidge too long for me in X-com. And that goes double for missions in Terror/Deep, although I have yet to see a 2 parter this game. Not looking forward to terror defense missions on cruise ships. Those 2 parters are hell.

Brought home 6 live aliens though, so not a complete loss, including a squad leader who was carrying my first thermic lance. Love the hth weaponry in Terror.

[GreenGoo]

Just wanted to say I'm really enjoying reading your little AAR Green Goo. Just incase you thought you were writing to no-one

[GreenGoo]

Just wanted to say I'm really enjoying reading your little AAR Green Goo. Just incase you thought you were writing to no-one

No worries, although of course I'm glad if someone is entertained, even a little. I often just write random, incomplete and vague descriptions of games I'm playing. I don't know why.

February came to an end, with all but the US and...I don't remember. Europe maybe? Being happy. I can understand Europe being unhappy, but the US? My sole base is off the east coast of Georgia (as per Kasey's recommendation). I'm fairly certain that I just didn't detect anything, even though the US must have had lots of activity. February was a slow month for sure, so my 1 small and 1 large sonars must have been faulty.

I've rebuilt my strike team, with enough in reserve for a full 2nd team. Who would have thought that disposable 10 bravery scouts would be my most precious resource that I'm short on. I've got full gauss rifle troops now, which will usually take down the gillmen/deep ones I'm seeing in 1 shot. Much better. I've kept 1 auto hydrojet and 1 large gas cannon around in case I need flame or high explosives, but the scouts all have tazers in one hand and gauss pistols in the other, with the remaining troops sporting gauss rifles. Everyone has a medi-kit.

I've researched aquatoid and deep one corpses. Aquatoid just gave some info on that breed, while the deep one opened up aqua plastics, which my scientists are working on full bore.

Even though I have a vague idea of what to research and when, and access to the faq if I want to get very specific, I find myself researching stuff in what I consider a more logical order, if I was actually in charge of a special ops force trying to figure out just what is going on. So I researched the aquatoid corpse first. They were the first aliens I found, and without foreknowledge I would have no way of knowing that deep ones = armour while aquatoids = flavour text (which I always enjoy). So I try and balance things between optimal min/maxing and general "role playing" I guess.

Now that I'm using manufactured ammo (gauss) I'm starting to find the unload all half empty clips to preserve ammo more annoying.

I have the firepower. Now I need protection so my guys aren't dropping like flies when an alien looks at them.

I forgot to mention, with regard to my last terror mission, that one of the 4 survivors was an actual survivor of a grenade blast. I got to her quickly and healed her 3 fatal head wounds. Then I tried an experiment. She only had 11 health left, and was fairly decent stat-wise, so I wanted to keep her. I loaded her up with a TON of heavy stuff, including a body of one of her squad mates. I then put her in the transport sub, and ran her back and forth every turn using up all her TU's. Eventually her stamina wore out and stamina kept her from running the full TU every turn. It worked great. When the mission ended and she was put in sickbay, her stats for strength, stamina and TU's were all increased significantly. Might almost be worthwhile to leave 1 or 2 'nauts back in the sub each mission to work on their cardio.

Things are getting expensive. I have almost 30 'nauts, a full complement of 50 scientists and about 40 engineers. I have another workshop in the works, but that's a month away. I should probably start on another lab, but money is a bit short right now as I continue to manufacture things for use rather than for sale. I guess I can sell some alien guns. It's not like I'm going to need 50 sonic pistols. 50 is an exageration, but 15-20 is probably close.

I was a little dismayed to see the US pull some funding last month. I'm hoping March goes better.

[Sudy]

Padder!

[GreenGoo]

Halfway through March and barely any action. I just took down a small intact UFO. I still lost a man on the very last turn. 2 'nauts book ending a doorway, alien popped out, capped one 'naut and then other 'naut reaction fired and killed the alien, ending the mission and preventing me from unloading a bunch of clips and saving the ammo. Oh well.

Researching the sonic rifle now, since I don't really know what my priorities should be. It's slow going with 50 scientists. I took 5 of those and put them on a gillman corpse. What the hell.

Aqua Armour almost complete. Last fight had over 1/2 the aquanauts sporting the new bowl helms. Nothing new. Maintenance costs getting a little high. Despite that, I should probably drop a second base at some point, at least with a sonar. Still pretty quiet and I expect more sponsors to be unhappy with my work this month.

[GreenGoo]

Month end statement for March was surprisingly optimistic. Almost all sponsors increased funding, including both the US and European factions who reduced funding the previous month. Unfortunately all increases were nullified when Neo-Japan signed on with the aliens, effectively making them our enemy and obviously removing our access to their money. Their contribution was nearly a half mil a month.

I'm started a secondary base off the east coast of Africa. Due to design constraints, it will be awhile before enough construction has occurred to make the base useful in any way. Right now it consists of an access airlock and the blue prints for a storage room, which should be complete in 10 days. After that it is more storage and a sonar. Security assures me a slow and stead pace with provide a maximum security base, so patience is the key for now.

Nothing new on the research front. Trying to figure out how to jam this ammo clip in a sonic blaster rifle, but it keeps going in upside down. Until I figure this out the rifles are useless to me. I've also got a live gillman under the lights. We'll see if he cracks or turns into a vegetable. Either way we have to keep making progress, because even if we stop to rest, you can be assured the Aliens won't.

Aquatoids: Appear to be genetically grown from stock, with more than a dash of cybernetics to support weaknesses and possibly control?
Deep Ones: This thing used to be human?! The eyes have an eerie familiarity, but the rest is pure nightmare. Who are the master minds responsible for this?
Gillman: Ancient tenants of the same blue-green marble as us? But where have they been this whole time? And why does every single one of them that we cut open have circuitry inside its skull along with gray matter? I don't think Darwin had machinery in mind when he philosophized on the topic of evolution.

[GreenGoo]

Ah. First Cruise line terror mission. 1/2 way around the world. At night. With my first lobstermen. First attempt. all hands lost, sub lost, 14 civvies lost. Aliens killed: 0.

Due to storage limits, I had to stop bringing grenades and any of the other fun, extra things. I only had 2 flares on me, and my entire staff armed with gauss. 3 had stun sticks and 1 had a heavy gas cannon. The 3 stunners all died in a barrel incident of large radius. The Gas cannon was an early casualty. After losing nearly all remaining 'nauts and pumping well over 30 (ok, an exaggeration maybe. Would you believe 10-15?) gauss rounds into a Lobsterman with nothing to show for it, I can safely say that if I can't get another weapon type into combat soon, this mission won't be winnable. I still haven't researched sonic rifle ammo, so no help there.

Anyway, decided to go out in a burst of glory and several 'nauts charged into incoming fire to retrieve all 3 stun sticks. With no where to hide and a large clear space to cross, all 3 members charged the lobsterman. Only 1 made it through the hail of sonic waveforms. He jammed the stick as far into the lobster craw as he could and held down the trigger until icicles began to form on the mandibles. Lobsterman #1 is down.

Shortly thereafter a brain riding a mini-flying saucer ate him and all hands were lost along with the ship.

Game over, man! Game over!

Taking a break. Tomorrow I'll see what I can do with the saved game from the very start of that mission. I have almost nothing but gauss, and the lobsters seem to be immune to it. Ugh.

[GreenGoo]

Watched some videos and other people seem to be able to take down lobstermen with about 6-8 shots from gauss rifles. My only explanation is that maybe, somehow, I was shooting 2 lobstermen who kept switching positions between turns, from behind cover. It's possible, although I'm not sure how likely it is.

I'll give the mission another try later today. Last time I never made it off the Lido deck. Actually, I think it's a transport and not a cruise liner. I can hardly wait to open closets and find lobstermen in them. Should be a blast.

[GreenGoo]

Padder!

Quiet you!

...post count ++

[Hipolito]

What difficulty level are you playing at, and how does it compare to the difficulty of the first game (which, if I understand correctly, had a bug that prevented you from playing at any but the easiest difficulty level, what was hard enough)?

[GreenGoo]

There are 5 difficulty settings. I'm playing on the middle one. And yeah, I remember the first having a bug that when you reloaded a saved game the difficulty reset. So I guess if you played Ironman and never turned off your computer, you could play at any difficulty you like. I have no idea how it compares. Terror, while the same game as X-com, has had numerous changes to make it harder, so any comparison between Terror and X-com aren't very useful. And with that, I'll say that Terror is much harder than X-com. In lots of ways. Tougher aliens. Crappier starting weapons. More balanced alien weapons (no super awesome autofire hvy plasma for instance). Different and harder research tree.

With 4 Lobstermen in a central room and 2 bio-drones cruising the corridors, it is unfair that both types of aliens have been requiring 3 attacks from the thermal tazers to knock unconscious.

I have no explosives, but since lobstermen are just as resistant to HE as they are to AP or Gauss, I'm not sure it would do much good anyway.

I don't normally do this, but here is what I've done for the ship terror mission. I went back to an earlier save and brought any extra thermal tazers I had, which was 3, giving me 6 total. The mission came up and I equipped everyone and saved it. I played a good few turns, with mostly long ranged fighting with me in the deployment area (I cheated and ran a tazer guy behind the crates where I knew from last time a lobster man starts. Turns out this time he was a bio-drone, which I stunned) and the aliens on the decks above. I lost one scout who was dashing from cover to a door to the main part of the ship. Everyone else was alive.

A task force eventually made it into the ship and with luck and patience, overcame 1 or 2 aliens. I had to leave the game so I saved it at that point. Now that I'm back playing, I hit end turn and promptly lost 5 'nauts to a grenade and bio-drone. Ugh.

So now I'm reloading and reloading and reloading from that spot. My weak will has been overcome due to the saved game being easy reach. I'm taking it a tactical scenario challenge. I've managed to get all 5 'nauts to safety a few times, but then lose a few shortly after and then I just reload again. Ugh. But I can't help it.

I'm going to keep plugging away at this mission, but it is tough and I've reloaded a significant number of times. Thermal Tazers and gauss are no match for lobstermen and bio-drones, especially in tight corridors with multiple lobstermen covering each other AND needing 3 blasts of the Tazer to stun just 1 lobsterman.

Progress probably won't be made for a little while.

As an example of how outgunned I am, I had 1 'naut taze a lobster at point blank (obviously) range twice, then another 'naut fire 2 full burst auto shots into it's chest on the same turn as the 2 stuns, also from point blank range. Lobster was still standing afterward.

This is a little tough.

[GreenGoo]

I am completely pussing out. Every time something significant happens that doesn't involve my guys dying, I've been saving. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I hate but am so tempted to do most of the time. That I didn't reload and just took that 10 man casualty mission and kept going was me overcoming the temptation to reload.

Now, with my guys getting more veteran, each loss hurts more. Anyway, I won't be doing this again. I justify it by how completely impossible this mission would be without saves. It takes 3 of my guys unloading everything they have to bring down one of theirs. Ugh.

Looking forward to this mission being over. In fact I may take a day or 2 break after.

I wonder if bio-drones give me anything researchy? I have a couple of lives ones stunned now.

Edit: Can't count.

[Zurai]

TftD is brutally difficult to start with. I could never get anywhere in that game despite having beaten the first one more than once.

[Holman]

I love hearing about XCom TFTD again! I believe I may give it another spin myself.

quick questions:

After I download TFTD via Steam, what else do I need? Are there any good third-party patches/mods/fixes for me to get?

[GreenGoo]

I love hearing about XCom TFTD again! I believe I may give it another spin myself.

quick questions:

After I download TFTD via Steam, what else do I need? Are there any good third-party patches/mods/fixes for me to get?

I didn't bother with any mods, although there are a few out there that I used to use that will do an analysis of your guys and rename them using codes (which can be user defined criteria and labels) which makes it easier to understand in the equipping phase what to give everyone as well as easily identifying them/their roles during combat. A couple of other fixes that I don't remember but were useful.

I'm playing straight vanilla TftD with no issues thus far.

In retrospect, my desire to role play the role of commander in chief of a super elite alien fighting force with no previous knowledge of them steered me towards decent, but not optimal research paths. For instance I am currently a day or 3 away from researching sonic rifle cartridges. If I had them already researched this mission would be easier. Although still not easy, since Lobstermen are resistant to sonic weapons as well. The difference is that the sonic weapons do more damage so even at a 50% resistance (wild guess), more damage is done per shot.

I'm not happy in this situation of using gauss versus nearly immune aliens. If I were to play this out more fairly, I would just load everyone back on the sub and bail, preserving the team but leaving the cargo ship to founder under the alien assault. But I'm already committed to regular saves and want to see how it turns out. One of the problems will be stunned aliens coming back awake before I can finish the whole level. I might get into a loop situation. I wish I could easily cap stunned aliens. I know explosives will easily kill them when they are asleep, but I don't have any and don't wish to do that kind of carnage anyway. Reading last night, I realized that the cargo ship terror mission is a two parter. UGH!!

If I were to start a new game, I would race for weaponry asap. I think I could have had all 3 weapons and their ammo researched by this point (1st of April. i.e. 3 months of gameplay so far) which would make a helluva difference. I have yet to see a calcinatewhatever so no vibro blades yet. And no vibro blades means no thermic lance (which I have one of but no way to research it yet). Lances just eat Lobstermen by the dozen. Looking forward to getting into some more HtH with the bastards.

Now, a complaint. I understand that this is a sequel of sorts, and that it is common for people to clamour for *more* when a sequel is coming down the pipe. But I think the tactical missions are TOO LONG now. The single part missions are pretty decent. Bigger than X-com, but still manageable for the most part. I get a little impatient towards the end and can sometimes make a mistake/take a risk that I wouldn't normally take at the beginning of the mission. But on the whole, they are ok in length.

The trouble begins as you get farther into the game, and the number of 2 part missions increase. In the original X-Com, when you went to Cydonia, it was a big deal. A culmination of everything you'd worked for up to that point. I like that they tried to make it epic. Topside and then the base. Everything was on the line and if I remember correctly you couldn't even save the game during the mission (I could be wrong about that). So there it made sense to have a bigger mission and draw out the tension and fun. But when every generic terror mission involves a ship with about 5 levels that is nothing but corridors, closets and staircases, and then a second part nearly the same, the missions are getting drawn out for little purpose. I understand that people just like the game and the longer it lasts the better for them, but then I say just have more USO's. Have more missions, not longer missions. One I could tolerate. The other is a pain.

So a bit of a pet peeve of mine, but what the hell. I'm hoping to finish a TftD game for the first time. I've come very close before but then something shiny came along and I forgot about it.

[dbt1949]

I've played TFTD more the the original. If You run into the lobstermen too early in the game abort the mission. Don't even try to take them out. Later in the game with the use of the vibro blades and their cousins they're as easy as butter.

[GreenGoo]

I've played TFTD more the the original. If You run into the lobstermen too early in the game abort the mission. Don't even try to take them out. Later in the game with the use of the vibro blades and their cousins they're as easy as butter.

Yeah, definitely the right answer. Still, I have a hard time pulling the plug on a mission. The negative score. All those civvies killed. X-com failure going on my record. Just the idea of not even trying is a hit to the morale.

[Freyland]

There have been many, many games I have not finished due to time constraints, distraction, and rarely, boredom. TFTD has the distinction of being the only game I have ever shattered the CD out of pure anger.

[Holman]

I've played TFTD more the the original. If You run into the lobstermen too early in the game abort the mission. Don't even try to take them out. Later in the game with the use of the vibro blades and their cousins they're as easy as butter.

<Mmmm, Lobstermen with butter...>

Here's a tech question. I downloaded the Steam TFTD and I'm finding the mouse speed to be way too high, even with the in-game "options" tabs set low.

I seem to recall that you can configure DOSbox to slow down the mouse and screen scrolling. How is this done?

Thanks!

[Bakhtosh]

BTW: Impulse now has the X-com series for $10.

http://www.impulsedriven.com/news/1652/ ... es_for_999" target="_blank

[GreenGoo]

I've played TFTD more the the original. If You run into the lobstermen too early in the game abort the mission. Don't even try to take them out. Later in the game with the use of the vibro blades and their cousins they're as easy as butter.

<Mmmm, Lobstermen with butter...>

Here's a tech question. I downloaded the Steam TFTD and I'm finding the mouse speed to be way too high, even with the in-game "options" tabs set low.

I seem to recall that you can configure DOSbox to slow down the mouse and screen scrolling. How is this done?

Thanks!

Sorry, can't help. Mine worked out of the box, for the most part. There are issues with the interface, but I think that has to do with the original code rather than emulation.

[dbt1949]

If you save just before going on a terror mission and reload it will result in a different terror mission. That's how you handle Lobstermen terror missions. Gamey, but it works.

[GreenGoo]

If you save just before going on a terror mission and reload it will result in a different terror mission. That's how you handle Lobstermen terror missions. Gamey, but it works.

I did not know that. I will do it if another terror mission pops up before my research produces fruit.

Oh, and the lobster 2 parter cargo ship terror mission is at night. I tried to avoid it but the mission was on the other side of the world, so I would have run out of fuel waiting for daylight.

Luckily the corridors have some light. Or at least are so small that the light radius around my guys is enough to light up everything.

[GreenGoo]

Well, pretty discouraged. Nearly every contact with a Lobsterman ends with one of my guys dying. I just had 5 'nauts unload on a lobster without killing it or stunning it. Insane.

Taking a break for tonight. I'll try again tomorrow. If conventional play doesn't make progress, I think I might load up all my 'nauts with all the weapons and ammo lying around, and maybe an unconscious lobsterman or 2 as well, then head back to the sub and just bail.

Too difficult. I'll chalk it up to the X-com team having met their match, and now must wait for the nerdlingers to provide the gadgets needed to kill the aliens.

I can say without hesitation that this mission was unwinnable for me with my current layout, without saving a million times. I'm not even finished part 1 yet.

[dbt1949]

Early on before you get the proper weapons the only thing that works well is the stun rod. Of course this means getting in close and taking casualties but the lobstermen are vulnerable to them.
You need to ambush them.

[Sandpuppy]

The thing I hated about the lobstermen was their proclivity to hide out in the toilets of the cruise ship cabins, forcing my squad to spend hours (real time) scouring the whole damn ship looking for the last one to end the mission. Inevitably, I'd get impatient and careless, and lose a guy when I finally found him.

[GreenGoo]

The thing I hated about the lobstermen was their proclivity to hide out in the toilets of the cruise ship cabins, forcing my squad to spend hours (real time) scouring the whole damn ship looking for the last one to end the mission. Inevitably, I'd get impatient and careless, and lose a guy when I finally found him.

+1. That makes me want to smash things, for sure.

dbt, thanks for the stun advice, and I've already taken that into account. In fact I had gone back to a previous save and put all my extra stun sticks on the transport so I had more of them. typically I just have my advanced scouts equipped with them. Unfortunately I only had 6 in total, but yes, all 6 sticks were given out and equipped.

Doesn't seem to matter. Everything seems pretty random. I can hit a lobsterman twice and have him drop (don't think it's ever only taken 1 shot) but more often it's 3. And more than once I've hit a lobsterman with 6 shots from autofire (rifle), 2 shots from snap shot (rifle), 2 stuns and 6 shots from autofire (pistols). That's 8 rifle hits and 6 pistol hits and 2 stun attacks. All on the same turn. And the f'ing thing lived. That took 4 of my guys to do, and the lobsterman had support so on the next turn it was carnage, as I risked being out of cover to hopefully stun/kill one (1!) lobsterman.

It's definitely hopeless, so I will just pull back tonight, hopefully taking some battle trophies with me. I should mention that I've killed at least 2 lobsters and 1 bio-drone, and stunned 2 lobsters and 2 bio-drones. So there should be some stuff to haul back. Hopefully none of the stunned aliens wake up before lift off.

[dbt1949]

Sometimes When I don't want to continue a mission (I've captured an alien I needed to study or am losing badly) I'll just grab everything I can reboard the ship and abort the mission. I get to keep any aliens and equipment I've brought on board with me.

[GreenGoo]

Sometimes When I don't want to continue a mission (I've captured an alien I needed to study or am losing badly) I'll just grab everything I can reboard the ship and abort the mission. I get to keep any aliens and equipment I've brought on board with me.

That's the plan. I'll see if I can remember where all the stuff/stunned aliens are. Isometric view + narrow corridors + walls = no easy way to see what's on the ground. The "overhead" map will show bodies, I think. Not sure about weapons caches. Not sure if I need guys on specific levels to see the bodies either.

[NickAragua]

On the map, live (stunned) aliens show up as glowy dots. Gray crosses are equipment piles and corpses.
edit: I'll double check when I get home.

This game could definitely have used a little more "usability testing", in terms of pathfinding.

By the way, if you play the original X-Com on superhuman with the XComUtil difficulty fix, it's pretty damned hard. I wind up taking about 25-50% losses on non-trivial missions (terror sites, medium+ UFOs), despite having powered armor, plasma guns and the latest in tactics. The casualty rate goes up to near 100% when the bad guys have psionics.

[dbt1949]

It adds some excitement sometimes when the stunned alien you're carrying wakes up on your back.