Octopus Overlords

PC World

AT&T, for instance, has announced that it's adding Palm's Pre Plus and Pixi Plus to its lineup, as well as Dell's Android-based Aero-the first Dell phone to ship in the U.S.

AT&T sure doesn't muck around when it comes to making sure there's lots of handset options available.

yeah but they are finding new ways to nickel and dime you. If you have a phone that doesn't require a data plan, but has a QWERTY keyboard, they will charge you $20 extra a month. LAME Apparently Verizon does this too. I've been told by a friend who is a manager at ATT wireless that because apple is getting a cut other phone manufactures are demanding the same.

naednek wrote:yeah but they are finding new ways to nickel and dime you. If you have a phone that doesn't require a data plan, but has a QWERTY keyboard, they will charge you $20 extra a month. LAME Apparently Verizon does this too. I've been told by a friend who is a manager at ATT wireless that because apple is getting a cut other phone manufactures are demanding the same.

So they require you to get a data plan? That is how much the data plan costs...are you sure it isn't they require you to get a data plan to subsidize the phone? I think my wife had to get a texting plan or data plan for her phone to qualify.

WPD wrote:

naednek wrote:yeah but they are finding new ways to nickel and dime you. If you have a phone that doesn't require a data plan, but has a QWERTY keyboard, they will charge you $20 extra a month. LAME Apparently Verizon does this too. I've been told by a friend who is a manager at ATT wireless that because apple is getting a cut other phone manufactures are demanding the same.

So they require you to get a data plan? That is how much the data plan costs...are you sure it isn't they require you to get a data plan to subsidize the phone? I think my wife had to get a texting plan or data plan for her phone to qualify.

No data plans, at least for att costs $30 per month for each phone. If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

naednek wrote:If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

...and the plan is $20. Seriously, who's buying a phone with a keyboard and doesn't expect to use it either with a data or messaging plan?

Isgrimnur wrote:

naednek wrote:If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

...and the plan is $20. Seriously, who's buying a phone with a keyboard and doesn't expect to use it either with a data or messaging plan?

I have a messaging plan. I pay $5 extra month to be able to text 200 times. They want me to spend $20 a month to have 1500 messages. I don't text that much, and my wife and I together are well under 1000 texts combined.

My point is, it's pretty ridiculous to charge more just because you have a keyboard style phone.

naednek wrote:

WPD wrote:

naednek wrote:yeah but they are finding new ways to nickel and dime you. If you have a phone that doesn't require a data plan, but has a QWERTY keyboard, they will charge you $20 extra a month. LAME Apparently Verizon does this too. I've been told by a friend who is a manager at ATT wireless that because apple is getting a cut other phone manufactures are demanding the same.

So they require you to get a data plan? That is how much the data plan costs...are you sure it isn't they require you to get a data plan to subsidize the phone? I think my wife had to get a texting plan or data plan for her phone to qualify.

No data plans, at least for att costs $30 per month for each phone. If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

Guess they've gone up since we got my wife's new phone in November, her's is $15 after a 25% discount.

Dude, you're getting a Dell?

HSPA+ for T-Mobile

T-Mobile USA said it will soon have bragging rights as the nation's fastest 3G network. But will the claim to fame help the company attract new customers?

Executives at the CTIA trade show here on Tuesday outlined the company's network upgrade plans to a technology called HSPA+ that will effectively triple its network download speeds on its 3G wireless network by the end of the year.

T-Mobile netbook, 3 new handsets announced

Starting Wednesday in select markets, T-Mobile will begin selling the Dell Inspiron Mini 10 Netbook with access to the company's newly upgraded HSPA 7.2 network. The device, which comes with Windows 7 installed as well as an Intel Atom processor for fast Web surfing, will be $199.99 with a two-year contract. Customers can buy the device without a contract for $499.

T-Mobile charges $60 per month for its data card service, which gives users 5GB of usage per month. It also offers a $30 monthly plan that offers you 200MB per month. Both plans charge 20 cents per megabyte over the respective caps.
...
T-Mobile also announced three new 3G handsets, the HTC HD2, the Motorola CLIQ XT, and the T-Mobile MyTouch 3G. These devices are all HSPA 7.2 capable. They do not have HSPA Plus technology embedded. New HSPA+ device are expected to be announced later this year.

GeekOSystem

Sprint, the country’s third largest wireless provider, announced the HTC Evo today, showcasing the world’s first 4G phone at the communication industry’s annual CTIA event in Las Vegas. This new phone is by all accounts a beautiful beast, decked out with a 4.3 inch screen, two cameras, and Android 2.1; but more importantly, it is the first phone to run on a 4G network.
...
Inside the Evo is a 1 gigahertz Snapdragon processor, 512MB of ram, and 1 gig of built in memory. On top of those screaming specs are a 480×800 display, as well as two (count em!) cameras, the better of which packs 8 megapixels. Running it all is the newest version of Android (2.1), as well as HTC’s Sense UI for a little extra eye-candy. All told, this looks like an amazing phone to finally make use of Sprint’s fancy new network, and it may just be their best bet for reversing their falling fortunes.

I wonder if it comes with a miniature nuclear plant to power the thing? My G1, also made by HTC, has a battery life best measured in nanoseconds. I can only imagine the impact of bigger, faster, brighter has on the battery.

I just got a new TAP so Im set in the phone dept.

WPD wrote:

naednek wrote:

WPD wrote:

naednek wrote:yeah but they are finding new ways to nickel and dime you. If you have a phone that doesn't require a data plan, but has a QWERTY keyboard, they will charge you $20 extra a month. LAME Apparently Verizon does this too. I've been told by a friend who is a manager at ATT wireless that because apple is getting a cut other phone manufactures are demanding the same.

So they require you to get a data plan? That is how much the data plan costs...are you sure it isn't they require you to get a data plan to subsidize the phone? I think my wife had to get a texting plan or data plan for her phone to qualify.

No data plans, at least for att costs $30 per month for each phone. If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

Guess they've gone up since we got my wife's new phone in November, her's is $15 after a 25% discount.

What I find odd is that they charge you $20 (in my case, $30 b/c of iPhone) a month for a "Data Plan", but apparently the Data Plan doesn't include Text Messages; Unlimited Texting through AT&T is an additional $20.

WTF?!

Isgrimnur wrote:

naednek wrote:If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

...and the plan is $20. Seriously, who's buying a phone with a keyboard and doesn't expect to use it either with a data or messaging plan?

Uh, me? I just went to Verizon (which bought my original company, Alltel) and upgraded my old trusty Motorola Razr for a Samsung Intensity. There was no additional price for having a qwerty keyboard. I bought no data plan nor text plan, though I may go with a texting plan if my texting usage goes up.

I text maybe 20 times a month, and at 20 cents each text (it was 15 cents but since this is Verizon now it goes up to 20 cents), that's cheaper than the text plans that start at $6/mo.

cheeba wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote:

naednek wrote:If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

...and the plan is $20. Seriously, who's buying a phone with a keyboard and doesn't expect to use it either with a data or messaging plan?

Uh, me? I just went to Verizon (which bought my original company, Alltel) and upgraded my old trusty Motorola Razr for a Samsung Intensity. There was no additional price for having a qwerty keyboard. I bought no data plan nor text plan, though I may go with a texting plan if my texting usage goes up.

I text maybe 20 times a month, and at 20 cents each text (it was 15 cents but since this is Verizon now it goes up to 20 cents), that's cheaper than the text plans that start at $6/mo.

He was talking about AT&T. And to add some cellphone news:

Femtocells!

The MicroCell, a tiny cellular base station, is designed to boost coverage in subscribers' homes. AT&T claims it is the only femtocell that can support both voice and 3G data traffic. The carrier has been selling MicroCells in trials in several states, beginning last September in North Carolina.

I was just dealing with femtocells at work!

Outside of people who insist on having the "latest and greatest" phones, I don't think contract cell phones have much of a future. You can get a $45/mo unlimited talk, text, and data prepaid plan now, and a QWERTY phone runs you $100 to start. And there are cheaper and more expensive phones available as well from that provider.

At that price, why would you deal with a contract?

Fellstrike wrote:

WPD wrote:

naednek wrote:

WPD wrote:

naednek wrote:yeah but they are finding new ways to nickel and dime you. If you have a phone that doesn't require a data plan, but has a QWERTY keyboard, they will charge you $20 extra a month. LAME Apparently Verizon does this too. I've been told by a friend who is a manager at ATT wireless that because apple is getting a cut other phone manufactures are demanding the same.

So they require you to get a data plan? That is how much the data plan costs...are you sure it isn't they require you to get a data plan to subsidize the phone? I think my wife had to get a texting plan or data plan for her phone to qualify.

No data plans, at least for att costs $30 per month for each phone. If you buy a QWERTY Phone without a data plan, they charge you $20 a month, or if you have unlimited texting then it's free.

Guess they've gone up since we got my wife's new phone in November, her's is $15 after a 25% discount.

What I find odd is that they charge you $20 (in my case, $30 b/c of iPhone) a month for a "Data Plan", but apparently the Data Plan doesn't include Text Messages; Unlimited Texting through AT&T is an additional $20.

WTF?!

My old, piece-of-crap Samsung BlackJack had Windows Live Messenger, Yahoo, etc. built-in. While stuck at the Vegas airport, I fired it up, and sent a few IMs. Lo and behold, those messages were not covered by my unlimited data plan, but were billed as TEXT MESSAGES. WTF, indeed.

SpaceLord wrote:My old, piece-of-crap Samsung BlackJack had Windows Live Messenger, Yahoo, etc. built-in. While stuck at the Vegas airport, I fired it up, and sent a few IMs. Lo and behold, those messages were not covered by my unlimited data plan, but were billed as TEXT MESSAGES. WTF, indeed.

"Yes, sir, which we would have been happy to educate you about if you had called us beforehand."

WPD wrote: Femtocells!

I was just dealing with femtocells at work!

No one wanted to talk about them when I brought it up earlier.

Isgrimnur wrote:

SpaceLord wrote:My old, piece-of-crap Samsung BlackJack had Windows Live Messenger, Yahoo, etc. built-in. While stuck at the Vegas airport, I fired it up, and sent a few IMs. Lo and behold, those messages were not covered by my unlimited data plan, but were billed as TEXT MESSAGES. WTF, indeed.

"Yes, sir, which we would have been happy to educate you about if you had called us beforehand."

And then, I, in turn, would have educated them as to what the hell SMS means, and does not mean. It does not mean Yahoo/MSN/AIM messages.

The technical definition matters not, it matters how they define the service.

As good a thread as any.

Verizon to dump unlimited data plans:

The days of unlimited data at Verizon will soon be over, the company said during the Reuters Global Technology Summit this week. Verizon CFO Fran Shammo confirmed that Verizon would make good on its promise to ditch its $30 unlimited data plan option this summer, and tried to soften the bad news by saying the company was planning to roll out "family" data plans that could be shared among several devices.
...
When speaking at the Reuters Global Technology Summit, Shammo reiterated the plan to start offering data tiers instead of the unlimited offering sometime this summer, but once again failed to offer more details on what those tiers would be or how much they will cost. (Verizon currently caps its 4G/LTE network at 5GB for $50 per month, or 10GB for $80 per month.) Still, while this is sad news for Verizon's 3G data hogs, it may be a net positive for families or even individuals with multiple 3G devices.

While I hate seeing the retreat from unlimited data plans, I would like to see the family data packages become an industry standard.

And ... they're gone:

Network operator Verizon Wireless confirmed the end of its unlimited data plans, to be replaced with a tiered pricing structure, as a flood of smartphones, tablets and other bandwidth-hungry devices descend on the company’s network. The new pricing structure offers customers monthly plans of $30 for 2GB of data, $50 for 5GB of data and $80 for 10GB of data. A $10 plan for 75MB of data is available to customers with feature phones with limited Internet capabilities.

So they're not offering a lower option for smartphones? I could totally live with a 1gb limit for $15/mo. Maybe I need to start listening to Pandora in the car just BECAUSE I CAN.

Chaz wrote:So they're not offering a lower option for smartphones? I could totally live with a 1gb limit for $15/mo. Maybe I need to start listening to Pandora in the car just BECAUSE I CAN.

Is this what you meant?

A $10 plan for 75MB of data is available to customers with feature phones with limited Internet capabilities.

Edit: Or did you mean less than 2gb/month? Yeah, they don't do that. Which is amusing since the article also says the majority of people use 600 MB/month.

Back when I was listening to Pandora almost exclusively at work, I surpassed 2 GB for three months, with a peak of 2.8 and hit 2GB on a 4th. Since I've transitioned to listening to my personal music collection at work, I have yet to crack 1 GB.

Isgrimnur wrote:Back when I was listening to Pandora almost exclusively at work, I surpassed 2 GB for three months, with a peak of 2.8 and hit 2GB on a 4th. Since I've transitioned to listening to my personal music collection at work, I have yet to crack 1 GB.

So do you have an opinion on if they are gouging their customers (which is perfectly fine if people are willing to pay it), or that it is actually necessary to increase the price so they can keep up with the bandwidth? I'm curious because I pay almost as much for my cable internet as the 5GB plan - seems a little crazy.

Makes me happy that I'm with Sprint, which (I believe) is the only one with an unlimited data plan left, and for all of $15 / month. Good network or no, I don't know how people wind up paying $30+ a month for data.

I don't know what'll happen if/when Sprint's unlimited plan goes away. Most likely I'll just stop using smart phones.

Sprint has a $15/month unlimited option? I don't think they did when I was phone shopping last December, or at least they weren't advertising it. I'd love to have an option of only a gig per month for $15. Most of my bandwidth comes from the map software since my phone is my primary GPS. Car music is usually covered by my ipod. It kills me that I'm spending $66/month for my phone, data, and texting plan, and that's with a 19% discount (from the employer that sold my company just before the company laid me off. ).

Phones be too expensive.

stessier wrote:

Isgrimnur wrote:Back when I was listening to Pandora almost exclusively at work, I surpassed 2 GB for three months, with a peak of 2.8 and hit 2GB on a 4th. Since I've transitioned to listening to my personal music collection at work, I have yet to crack 1 GB.

So do you have an opinion on if they are gouging their customers (which is perfectly fine if people are willing to pay it), or that it is actually necessary to increase the price so they can keep up with the bandwidth? I'm curious because I pay almost as much for my cable internet as the 5GB plan - seems a little crazy.

There's a huge pressure right now to get the 4G network build out by all the companies, so they're having to recoup costs to fund that. AT&T is about the same, but slightly more granular. For the iPhone, at least, it's $20 for 2 GB, with overages being sold in 1 GB chunks at $10 a pop, which would match the $50 cost for 5 GB.

Data features are increasingly where the competition is, as voice is increasingly flat in terms of how much price flexibility there is. And forget about wireline voice services.

Looking at the 1Qearnings, they're Net Income comes to 10.9% of Operating Revenues. They're not just making money hand over fist and pocketing it.

My biggest issue with national wireless providers is that it's pared down to an oligopoly, which will get worse if AT&T gets T-Mobile. It's always been up to one provider to make a move, and then, lo and behold, within a month, everyone else has matched it. Unlimited text, unlimited data, unlimited voice, push-to-talk, answer tones. It's like they've all seen the trends and they're just daring each other to go first.

Once the first provider pulled back from unlimited data and didn't get buried in the marketplace, it was only a matter of time before they all followed suit. I don't know if Sprint will go the same route, as they're the weakest of the four national players and have positioned themselves as the value contender.

Honestly, I think that the unlimited data plans that they released were either unsustainable from the strat (less likely) or that the uses available for these devices outstripped their frequency capacity and/or backhaul capabilities to keep up with new demand.

TL;DR - I think that the increased costs of data plans are in response to usage costs exceeding what their revenues were going to be locked at if they kept them that way. Wireless is technically more complicated than wired internet service. compare it to laptops vs. desktops. You pay more to get less.

Virgin (owned by Sprint now) has a $25/mo unlimited data plan too.

I didn't see in the article and they didn't like the announcement. When does this change go into effect? I know I just added a line for the future S.I.L., since she will be going to school down here, and they did the same $30 unlimited plan for her phone. In August I'll be renewing my contract as well so hopefully I'll at least get grandfathered into the old scheme.

Another article I saw indicated that the new plans go into effect tomorrow.

Verizon Wireless has confirmed that unlimited data plans for new smartphone customers will be withdrawn on July 7 and replaced with a tiered plan.

Verizon spokeswoman Brenda Raney confirmed to FierceWireless that the unlimited plans were on the way out. The tiered monthly plans will be as follows:

•$30 - 2 GB
•$50 - 5 GB
•$80 - 10 GB

On top of this there will be a $20 monthly charge for those wanting to tether devices to a smartphone, and an overage charge of $10 per GB. Feature phone users will be able to pay $10 for 75MB.
...
Existing customers, along with those who upgrade on or after July 7 will be able keep their unlimited smartphone data plan.

The last I checked, which was about 2 weeks ago, Verizon will not allow you to do the $10/75mb plan on any phone that is 3G or 4G capable. I have the old $10/25mb data plan on my Verizon "feature" phone, Samsung Rogue, which was the old minimum requirement. In the 2 years I've had the phone I have never gone over 20mb. I would very much like to move up to at least a 3G phone more for the improved hardware than anything else but I am not willing to have Verizon dictate a 2GB data requirement on me for an extra 30 bucks a month. I looked in to AT&T last month and they were still offering a $15 dollar data plan they will allow you to subscribe to and use a 4G Device. I realize cell phones have become a necessity in todays day and age but it is bordering on the ludicrous for cell phone costs per month. Among my small circle of friends and family the average costs per month seems to be $130-$150. Thats $1800 a year, not to sound like an old codger but when I was young if our home phone bill ever hit $100 in a month my dad would have gone through the roof and most likely removed all the phones in the house.

AT&T as of 3/31 had 68.1 million postpaid subscribers. 46.2% of those were carrying smartphones. Those customers pay 80% more revenue per user than non-smartphone users. ARPU (average monthly revenues per subscriber) for all postpaid users was $63.39.

If your friends are paying over $100/month and they're not hosting two or more lines per account, they're doing something very much outside the norm.

Tao wrote: I realize cell phones have become a necessity in todays day and age

I disagree with this. I didn't own one until last week - and I would argue I still don't as my MIL bought us one and is paying for it (she was tired of not being able to get in touch with us while we were out - a feeling that was not necessarily mutual ). We get/got along just fine without one up until that point.

They certainly make things easier and their use is habit forming, but I would bet they are far from a necessity for most people.

stessier wrote:

Tao wrote: I realize cell phones have become a necessity in todays day and age

I disagree with this. I didn't own one until last week - and I would argue I still don't as my MIL bought us one and is paying for it (she was tired of not being able to get in touch with us while we were out - a feeling that was not necessarily mutual ). We get/got along just fine without one up until that point.

They certainly make things easier and their use is habit forming, but I would bet they are far from a necessity for most people.

They're a necessity if you want to be like everyone else who uses them. There are people I don't hang out with any more because they require you to meet up via cell phone. Like you can't plan to meet somewhere, you have to maintain constant contact until your paths eventually merge somewhere. F that.

Unagi wrote:fucking luddite.

Agreed. I think I hate the (what I feel to be) exorbitant monthly charge the most. With most of my other tech, I pay for it once and love it a long, long time. For this, I'd be paying monthly for something I would rarely (on average) use. It make the miser in me howl in rage.

But don't get me wrong - if I won the lottery, I'd have one of every model. It's just that in my current list of priorities, it ranks very near the bottom.

Chaz wrote:Sprint has a $15/month unlimited option? I don't think they did when I was phone shopping last December, or at least they weren't advertising it. I'd love to have an option of only a gig per month for $15.

That's what I pay. Bear in mind that I'm paying as part of a family plan with the in-laws; also I didn't sign up for 4G, which would've been another $10 / month on top. So I'm paying about $45 / month including data.

Ah, yeah, family plans definitely help cut costs. Since I don't have friends or family, mine remains expensive.