Disaster Tourism: The Titanic

[Kraken]

This was about "First!" and about privilege,

It's my understanding that this was that particular submarine's third dive. Many others have reached the Titanic's wreck and even retrieved souvenirs. They weren't first at anything except (probably) dying in the attempt.

I speculate that if one has enough money to buy virtually anything in the world, one can only find fulfillment in the most exotic and prestigious adventures, and danger adds to the appeal.

TBS, I agree that those who were sealed into that coffin surely must have assumed that their host had taken every realistic precaution. After all, he did go down with the ship.

[Isgrimnur]

All 2,623 of them.

[Unagi]

As much as I firmly believe that every billionaire (or even multi-millionaire) is a failure of society to allocate resources justly, I hate seeing people laugh at suffering. Dying of suffocation at the bottom of the ocean is a horror, and no horror should ever be celebrated.

I get it. Honestly, though, what isn't a horror when it comes to watching someone die when they shouldn't have to - and then when you weigh all those examples vs. 4 billionaires that died by just "going for it" -- wtf.

Was it not your previous signature that basically educated on this position?

[Unagi]

As much as I firmly believe that every billionaire (or even multi-millionaire) is a failure of society to allocate resources justly...

Really, every one?

Yep.

Yep, right?

what was that signature again?

[Rumpy]

* is a measure of distance, not depth.

? Is this in regards to fathom? Fathom is a measure of distance (six feet) but is usually used to indicate depth. Or is the asterisk for something else?

It's definitely a nautical term used to measure depth. Not aware of any other meanings.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fathom

This was a total brain fart of mine. And yes, of course, fathom is used exactly and entirely the way Rumpy used it.
I shamefully admit that for some reason I replaced the word with 'league', and then felt I needed to dispel the "2,000 leagues under the sea" misconception that some people have.


It's an embarrassing look into my brain's increasingly casual 'shoot-from-the-hip' read/reply MO, that I need to address.

Carry on.

Heh, not to mention it's "20,000 leagues under the sea" But I get you. I guess in some ways, leagues sounds fancier, so I can see why you'd go straight for that

[Punisher]

as I know that each of them sincerely signed up for this and entirely knew the risks

This is the only thing I'm not sure of. Whenever you do anything not 100% of your design and in your control you are relying on the person in charge.

Certainly.
But with something of this nature, I would bet they were 100% happy to sign something that said "I realize that what I'm doing is untested and could likely result in my death and I entirely absolve this company of any legal responsibility".
No thrill-seeking billionaire signing up to do a 2-mile-deep dive on the Titanic would ever blink an eye to that "disclaimer".
And yeah, of course, they were relying on the person in charge... but they all (of sound body and mind) signed something ahead of time that basically said "Hey, this is an absolutely crazy risk, and if this all goes entirely South - it's basically because we made them take us".

But I wonder how accurate that bolded part is.
Was the doc something that literally said this is all untested and is super risky or did it read more like a standard warning similar to when you get suegery along the lines of we've done everything we can to make this safe but there is still a bit of a risk and this doc is just a basic requirement for our insurance.
That's where I'm iffy on it. As someone else mentioned there have been quite a few trips to the Titanic and this wasn't even the first trip for this specific sub.
It cones down to were they actually informed about the true risks or did someone who did everything he could to circumvent safety just out and out lie to them.
I just find it odd that the owner would actually disclose everything to the paying passengers or was he more interested in getting their money and getting the clout of being able to go down there.
So yes, IF they TRULY were advised of the risks then oh well.. but if they were lied to and took the owner at his word then I don't think it's fair to blame them.
Now, IF they are rescued and anyone else signs up with all the new info out there now then it will be 100% on them.
If they're not rescued I'm assuming the company will just shut down.

[Isgrimnur]

* is a measure of distance, not depth.

? Is this in regards to fathom? Fathom is a measure of distance (six feet) but is usually used to indicate depth. Or is the asterisk for something else?

It's definitely a nautical term used to measure depth. Not aware of any other meanings.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fathom

This was a total brain fart of mine. And yes, of course, fathom is used exactly and entirely the way Rumpy used it.
I shamefully admit that for some reason I replaced the word with 'league', and then felt I needed to dispel the "2,000 leagues under the sea" misconception that some people have.


It's an embarrassing look into my brain's increasingly casual 'shoot-from-the-hip' read/reply MO, that I need to address.

Carry on.

Heh, not to mention it's "20,000 leagues under the sea" But I get you. I guess in some ways, leagues sounds fancier, so I can see why you'd go straight for that

I guess you could say that you could fathom why he'd go straight for that.

[Smoove_B]

This thread is littoral mess now.

[Isgrimnur]

This thread is littoral mess now.

That's an aphotic thing to say.

[jztemple2]

This thread is littoral mess now.

That's an aphotic thing to say.

I had to look up "aphotic", clever

[Isgrimnur]

Thank you.

[Isgrimnur]

Chilling Tales of Past Dives to Titanic Wreckage Keep Piling Up

Scores of former passengers who have ridden on board the Titan, the submersible that disappeared Sunday with five on board while en route to the wreckage site of the Titanic, have described in detail the chilling flaws they encountered during their trips—with one passenger calling the voyage a “suicide mission.”

Nearly all former passengers spoke of electrical and communication failures—jarring issues that ex-passenger Mike Reiss described as a common occurrence on dives by OceanGate, the company who operates the missing submersible.

“Every time they lost communication—that seems to be just something baked into the system," Reiss told ABC News.

Reiss, the showrunner for The Simpsons, completed four tours with OceanGate, including one to the site of the Titanic. He said his submersible lost contact with the host ship on every dive, just as the Titan did on Sunday afternoon less than two hours into its ill-fated trip.

[Rumpy]

I guess you could say that you could fathom why he'd go straight for that.

Whoops, guess I missed my chance to sound that out!

[Unagi]

This thread is littoral mess now.

That's an aphotic thing to say.

I had to look up "aphotic", clever

Littoral was also very clever too.

But I'm shore you caught that one.

[Max Peck]

It's my understanding that this was that particular submarine's third dive. Many others have reached the Titanic's wreck and even retrieved souvenirs. They weren't first at anything except (probably) dying in the attempt.

Not that it invalidates the point you are making, but I believe that this was the third year it has been diving at the Titanic site, and each year it was scheduled to make a handful of attempts, one per day for a week or so. As I understand it, their success rate at actually reaching the Titanic site was pretty poor, with many dives not being able to locate it for example. In the Pogue interview posted earlier, he mentions that his dive was aborted after reaching a depth of 30-some feet due to a technical glitch.

[Max Peck]

As much as I firmly believe that every billionaire (or even multi-millionaire) is a failure of society to allocate resources justly...

Really, every one?

There's a popular saying that goes "Every billionaire is a policy failure."

Shocking Inequality: Billionaires are a Sign of Economic Failure

Inherited wealth and crony capitalism have created an aristocratic class that undermines social mobility and democracy.
...
Crony capitalism
...
Monopoly power
...
Super-rich hiding their wealth
...
Unfair power of wealth
...
For all these reasons, I think there is a strong case to be made that rather than being celebrated, as one U.S. commentator recently said, “every billionaire is a policy failure,” and that in particular if we are to end poverty and build fairer societies, we need to bring an end to extreme wealth.

[Unagi]

There's a popular saying that goes "Every billionaire is a policy failure."

That's what it was! Thank you.

The death of a few policy failures. No loss.

Well, (sincerely) other than what they brought (non monetarily) to those that loved them.

[Max Peck]

The latest update from AP mentions some more details that address questions I've seen asked:

• At least 46 people have previously dived in the Titan during previous expeditions, which probably means there were about a half dozen dives in each year;
• They did carry spares for the wireless controller used to pilot the submersible;
• There were 7 backup systems to allow the vessel to resurface.

Rescuers make last desperate push as final hours of oxygen on missing Titanic submersible tick down

At least 46 people successfully traveled on OceanGate’s submersible to the Titanic wreck site in 2021 and 2022, according to letters the company filed with a U.S. District Court in Norfolk, Virginia, that oversees matters involving the Titanic shipwreck.

OceanGate has been criticized for the use of a simple commercially available video game controller to steer the Titan. But the company has said that many of the vessel’s parts are off-the-shelf because they have proved to be dependable.

“It’s meant for a 16-year-old to throw it around,” and is “super durable,” Rush told the CBC in an interview last year while he demonstrated by throwing the controller around the Titan’s tiny cabin. He said a couple of spares are kept on board “just in case.”

The submersible had seven backup systems to return to the surface, including sandbags and lead pipes that drop off and an inflatable balloon.

[Rumpy]

I'm shocked that even with all those backup systems that all of them managed to fail.

[Victoria Raverna]

I'm shocked that even with all those backup systems that all of them managed to fail.

Maybe all those backup systems depend on something that failed. So a single point of failure cause all the backup systems to fail.

[hitbyambulance]

wondering how much is being spent on all these rescue efforts... and who is paying for them

[Kraken]

It's my understanding that this was that particular submarine's third dive. Many others have reached the Titanic's wreck and even retrieved souvenirs. They weren't first at anything except (probably) dying in the attempt.

Not that it invalidates the point you are making, but I believe that this was the third year it has been diving at the Titanic site, and each year it was scheduled to make a handful of attempts, one per day for a week or so. As I understand it, their success rate at actually reaching the Titanic site was pretty poor, with many dives not being able to locate it for example. In the Pogue interview posted earlier, he mentions that his dive was aborted after reaching a depth of 30-some feet due to a technical glitch.

OK Boomer. Thanks for clarifying third year vs. third dive.

[Blackhawk]

I'm shocked that even with all those backup systems that all of them managed to fail.

Maybe all those backup systems depend on something that failed.

Like, say, an intact hull.

[Victoria Raverna]

I'm shocked that even with all those backup systems that all of them managed to fail.

Maybe all those backup systems depend on something that failed.

Like, say, an intact hull.

Or a working bluetooth usb.

[em2nought]

wondering how much is being spent on all these rescue efforts... and who is paying for them

Maybe it's coming out of the $6 billion more that the Pentagon just decided to give to Ukraine on our behalf due to "accounting" errors.

[Holman]

As much as I firmly believe that every billionaire (or even multi-millionaire) is a failure of society to allocate resources justly, I hate seeing people laugh at suffering. Dying of suffocation at the bottom of the ocean is a horror, and no horror should ever be celebrated.

I get it. Honestly, though, what isn't a horror when it comes to watching someone die when they shouldn't have to - and then when you weigh all those examples vs. 4 billionaires that died by just "going for it" -- wtf.

Was it not your previous signature that basically educated on this position?

I'm confused by this. What previous signature do you mean? I haven't changed mine in a very long time.

[Zaxxon]

And we don't *entirely* know that it failed to surface, right?

We're past the 96-hour mark now.

[jztemple2]

wondering how much is being spent on all these rescue efforts... and who is paying for them

If it's the military, they have budgets for training and an operation like this is good training for them.

[El Guapo]

Well, that's it, I'm canceling the family trip to the Titanic wreckage.

[Octavious]

And we don't *entirely* know that it failed to surface, right?

We're past the 96-hour mark now.

It's bonkers to me that it wouldn't have some kind of beacon if it's on the surface. From what I have seen it doesn't, so it's possible they have been bouncing around for days on the surface. At least they could have made the sub a bright color. I really don't think it ever made it back up.

[UsulofDoom]

wondering how much is being spent on all these rescue efforts... and who is paying for them

If it's the military, they have budgets for training and an operation like this is good training for them.

Even military flights over a stadium is a practice bombing run.

[Unagi]

As much as I firmly believe that every billionaire (or even multi-millionaire) is a failure of society to allocate resources justly, I hate seeing people laugh at suffering. Dying of suffocation at the bottom of the ocean is a horror, and no horror should ever be celebrated.

I get it. Honestly, though, what isn't a horror when it comes to watching someone die when they shouldn't have to - and then when you weigh all those examples vs. 4 billionaires that died by just "going for it" -- wtf.

Was it not your previous signature that basically educated on this position?

I'm confused by this. What previous signature do you mean? I haven't changed mine in a very long time.

“Every billionaire is a policy failure. “
I think that was yours?

I realize I’ve run with the sentiment a bit here.

[GreenGoo]

wondering how much is being spent on all these rescue efforts... and who is paying for them

If it's the military, they have budgets for training and an operation like this is good training for them.

If the USA we can charge emergency victims for their ambulance rides, then the USA we can charge billionaires (or their estates) for their S&R attempts.

[Isgrimnur]

Or their estates.

[Smoove_B]

I learn something new every day:

You might have seen a story going around this week with the headline “The only manned submersible that could reach the missing Titan is owned by Steam’s Gabe Newell,” in reference to the leader of the world’s biggest PC gaming platform. This is true, in a purely hypothetical sense, but also kinda pointless since said submersible is nowhere near the Titan (or Titanic’s) location and couldn’t help in the rescue efforts even if it was.

That said, I still want to talk about Newell’s submarine (which isn’t really his, as though it was his personal ride, he just owns the company that operates the sub).

The differences between the two subs (at a broad level) is...significant.

[Max Peck]

Just send the bill to OceanGate and get in line for the bankruptcy proceedings.

Given the number of Canadian ships involved, the Canadian taxpayer is making a not insignificant contribution to the overall expense.

[Skinypupy]

Comparing and contrasting the level of resources deployed, international media attention, and intensity of the rescue efforts for the 5 billionaires and for the hundreds of migrants on a boat that capsized about the same time is a truly sad commentary on society as a whole.

[Unagi]

The differences between the two subs (at a broad level) is...significant.

Yeah, wow - I'll say.

[Smoove_B]

The U.S. Coast Guard is apparently holding a press conference at 3pm today regarding the use of their remotely operated vehicle (ROV) near the Titanic.

A debris field was discovered within the search area by an ROV near the Titanic. Experts within the unified command are evaluating the information.

"debris" and "field" are not words often associated with finding survivors.

[Max Peck]

I learn something new every day:

You might have seen a story going around this week with the headline “The only manned submersible that could reach the missing Titan is owned by Steam’s Gabe Newell,” in reference to the leader of the world’s biggest PC gaming platform. This is true, in a purely hypothetical sense, but also kinda pointless since said submersible is nowhere near the Titan (or Titanic’s) location and couldn’t help in the rescue efforts even if it was.

That said, I still want to talk about Newell’s submarine (which isn’t really his, as though it was his personal ride, he just owns the company that operates the sub).

The differences between the two subs (at a broad level) is...significant.

I'm pretty sure you can say that about the Titan and any other manned deep water submersible.