Octopus Overlords

Let us note the closing of the 111th Congress...probably the most activist Congress of my lifetime and among the most effective in US history. Its abysmal approval ratings testify to its productivity.

Health care reform
Student loan overhaul
Repeal DADT
Ratified New START (probably)
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
HIRE Act
Cash for Clunkers
Wall Street Reform
Tax Relief Package
Small Business Lending Fund
Food Safety
Tobacco Regulation by FDA
Housing Loan Modification
Credit Card Company Regulations
Weapons Acquisition Overhaul
Iran Sanctions

Complete list at wiki -- I left off a few lesser known bills.

It's an impressive list as we embark upon two years of obstruction and backtracking.

It is indeed. I will miss you, 111th Congress. It's also part of why (as a democrat) I'm glad that the democrats are apparently retaining Nancy Pelosi. I get that she has a less than stellar approval rating, but by God she *gets shit done*.

The aqueduct?

Kraken wrote:Let us note the closing of the 111th Congress...probably the most activist Congress of my lifetime and among the most effective in US history. Its abysmal approval ratings testify to its productivity.

Health care reform
Student loan overhaul
Repeal DADT
Ratified New START (probably)
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act
HIRE Act
Cash for Clunkers
Wall Street Reform
Tax Relief Package
Small Business Lending Fund
Food Safety
Tobacco Regulation by FDA
Housing Loan Modification
Credit Card Company Regulations
Weapons Acquisition Overhaul
Iran Sanctions

Complete list at wiki -- I left off a few lesser known bills.

It's an impressive list as we embark upon two years of obstruction and backtracking.

It is a real testament to how split (widely) this country is that I look through that list and are strongly and passionately against most of what is there. I could go show it around work and most of the people in my neck of the woods would also be passionately against most of what is on it.

How will this country overcome such a great divide in basic political philosophy?

I'm not sure I'd list "Cash for Clunkers" on my resume of accomplishments.

One has to wonder if accomplishments the majority of the US don't agree with are really accomplishments at all.

I also wonder how such low approval ratings can be possible if this congress really "got shit done" that everyone actually wanted done.

There is a big difference between getting stuff done, and getting quality stuff done.

This kind of partisan divide is definitely not new. The country has survived for over two centuries with bitter partisan divides (plus one little civil war ), we'll survive this too. In 50 years we'll be talking abou how partisan the neo-democrats are, and how much better it was when people got along back in 2010.

And yeah, "accomplishments" are absolutely in the eye of the beholder. This is just to say that this is an unusually productive congress in terms of major legislation passed (presumably in large part because it's the Congress most dominated by one party in recent history).

Well at least the title is honest. This Congress was bought and paid for by special interests, just like pretty much all of the others .

Why isn't this being the most transparent congress ever on the list or them being the most moral congress, oh yeah they said screw that before their hands were off the bible (curan in one case). While I knew it was just them being politicians saying what people wanted to hear, I had hoped they would make some token acts of follow through on it being transparent and rooting out and pushing ethics violations. We basically got one offender censured at the end of the term.

So with the Christmas spirit in my heart I say to you Congress, screw you and good riddance. For those going into office, I'll be more than happy to tell you to go to hell as well if you don't do your job. This is a bipartisan message from Me.

YellowKing wrote:I'm not sure I'd list "Cash for Clunkers" on my resume of accomplishments.

One has to wonder if accomplishments the majority of the US don't agree with are really accomplishments at all.

It's getting shit done.
It's activist and it's productive.

It's bad governance but it is a productive, activist, getting shit done government.

Not all democratic governance has been bad but the shit they got done that I didn't want won't be getting undone anytime in the near future and that's enough to be keep me from voting for them again. So it's back to the 3rd parties I go, only the whacked out right has pretty much taken control of the 3rd parties I used to look at. They're political party terrorists who try to adopt everyone else's philosophies as if they thought of them and before kicking them out with demands for ultra rightists identical values.

One has to wonder if accomplishments the majority of the US don't agree with are really accomplishments at all.

I wonder where you get your numbers.


Health care reform

Majorities oppose repeal. In most polls a plurality support the law.


Student loan overhaul

64% support


Repeal DADT

~75% support


Ratified New START (probably)

73% support


American Recovery and Reinvestment Act

Not as unpopular as you'd think.


HIRE Act

I can't seem to find any polling on this at all.


Cash for Clunkers

No recent polling but we'll say it's fairly unpopular - except with those who got a check.


Wall Street Reform

65% supported back in April


Tax Relief Package

59% approve


Small Business Lending Fund

Nobody seems to care about this at all - no polling easily found.


Food Safety

Can't seem to find any polling


Tobacco Regulation by FDA

In 2007, 70% support


Housing Loan Modification

No polling found


Credit Card Company Regulations

"Strong support"


Weapons Acquisition Overhaul

Whuh?



Iran Sanctions

77% support



So basically every bill has majority support except the stimulus, possibly Cash for Clunkers and health care reform which has plurality support.

Do you have numbers that show otherwise?

I can't do the research at work, but Don't ask Don't Tell is NOT supported in the majority by the active duty soldiers currently serving in war areas. So we can play the game of finding the different numbers.

But Overall the approval numbers on this congress are low. So why would they be low if everyone is so ecstatic about all these great things that are passed.

Polls are a fickle lot, and while I am sure you got all that info(can't go to most of it at work), I might be able to google fu up other polls that show different numbers.

When I get home, if I have time I will look up these numbers and see what I find.

RMC wrote:I can't do the research at work, but Don't ask Don't Tell is NOT supported in the majority by the active duty soldiers currently serving in war areas. So we can play the game of finding the different numbers.

So?

Since when do we poll active duty soldiers when making policy decisions?

But Overall the approval numbers on this congress are low. So why would they be low if everyone is so ecstatic about all these great things that are passed.

Have you even seen Congress? It's got to be the most hysterical, self-centered and shameless group of douchebags ever assembled in one building. I hate them and I support the majority of the items on that last.

But most of the bills they passed have the support of wide majorities of those polled.

Exodor wrote:

One has to wonder if accomplishments the majority of the US don't agree with are really accomplishments at all.

I wonder where you get your numbers.


Health care reform

Majorities oppose repeal. In most polls a plurality support the law.


Student loan overhaul

64% support


Repeal DADT

~75% support


Ratified New START (probably)

73% support


American Recovery and Reinvestment Act

Not as unpopular as you'd think.


HIRE Act

I can't seem to find any polling on this at all.


Cash for Clunkers

No recent polling but we'll say it's fairly unpopular - except with those who got a check.


Wall Street Reform

65% supported back in April


Tax Relief Package

59% approve


Small Business Lending Fund

Nobody seems to care about this at all - no polling easily found.


Food Safety

Can't seem to find any polling


Tobacco Regulation by FDA

In 2007, 70% support


Housing Loan Modification

No polling found


Credit Card Company Regulations

"Strong support"


Weapons Acquisition Overhaul

Whuh?



Iran Sanctions

77% support



So basically every bill has majority support except the stimulus, possibly Cash for Clunkers and health care reform which has plurality support.

Do you have numbers that show otherwise?

And yet the re election rate in the house was the lowest it's been since Viet Nam.

http://www.tnr.com/article/midterm-elec ... on-numbers" target="_blank

House incumbent re-election rate: 86 percent*

Last year in which House incumbent re-election rate was this low: 1970

House incumbent re-election rate in 1994: 90 percent

So the answer would appear to be we hate Congress in spite of all of the great things we love that they've accomplished. While I'm happy that we are acting on our disapproval, I'm not so happy we seem to love the way things are being run.

RMC wrote:I can't do the research at work, but Don't ask Don't Tell is NOT supported in the majority by the active duty soldiers currently serving in war areas. So we can play the game of finding the different numbers.

But Overall the approval numbers on this congress are low. So why would they be low if everyone is so ecstatic about all these great things that are passed.

Polls are a fickle lot, and while I am sure you got all that info(can't go to most of it at work), I might be able to google fu up other polls that show different numbers.

When I get home, if I have time I will look up these numbers and see what I find.

I'm not sure what the support of active duty soldiers currently serving in war areas has to do with whether the majority of the U.S. supports DADT repeal. That might go to whether it's substantively a good idea, but Exodor / YK were talking about whether majorities support what the Congress has done.

And it's totally consistent to have majorities support most of what Congress has done but not support Congress. "Congress" is an amorphous entity that we associate with gridlock, partisanship, corruption, etc. Moreover, anytime that the economy is bad people are going to be inclined to disapprove of Congress. So asking someone if they approve of "Congress" is different than asking them if they approve of any one thing that Congress has done.

Basically it goes like this: do I like Congress? Hell no, they're a bunch of corrupt fat-cats! Do I like legislation that will increase inspections in order to hopefully find tainted food before it's shipped? Well, that doesn't seem like a bad idea.

LordMortis wrote: And yet the re election rate in the house was the lowest it's been since Viet Nam...

So the answer would appear to be we hate Congress in spite of all of the great things we love that they've accomplished. While I'm happy that we are acting on our disapproval, I'm not so happy we seem to love the way things are being run.

That's an interesting point. It seems as though the President gets all the credit (and the blame) for the passage of legislation, even though the Congress is the party responsible for the bills. For instance, the repeal of DADT is being hailed as a "victory" for Obama, not for members of Congress, who were the ones who voted to repeal. It seems as if Congress never reaps the rewards of legislative accomplishments. I wonder why that is.

Captain Caveman wrote:

LordMortis wrote: And yet the re election rate in the house was the lowest it's been since Viet Nam...

So the answer would appear to be we hate Congress in spite of all of the great things we love that they've accomplished. While I'm happy that we are acting on our disapproval, I'm not so happy we seem to love the way things are being run.

That's an interesting point. It seems as though the President gets all the credit (and the blame) for the passage of legislation, even though the Congress is the party responsible for the bills. For instance, the repeal of DADT is being hailed as a "victory" for Obama, not for members of Congress, who were the ones who voted to repeal. It seems as if Congress never reaps the rewards of legislative accomplishments. I wonder why that is.

That's absolutely true. President's get all (or almost all) of the credit - probably because the President is one person that we see on TV all the time, whereas Congress is an amorphous entity. We tend to fit events into broader narratives, and it's easier to put the President into a narrative (Obama manages to get DADT repeal through! Obama fails to get cap and trade enacted!) then to work a complicated legislative process into a narrative.

Kind of like how JFK/LBJ get credit for civil rights, FDR gets credit for the New Deal, and Teddy Roosevelt gets credit for various progressive pieces of legislation, but essentially no one can name even one majority leader involved in any of that legislation.

El Guapo wrote: And yeah, "accomplishments" are absolutely in the eye of the beholder. This is just to say that this is an unusually productive congress in terms of major legislation passed (presumably in large part because it's the Congress most dominated by one party in recent history).

Given that Congress' job is to legislate, passing major legislation is by definition "accomplishment".

I'm not thrilled with everything on the list either, btw. Cash for Clunkers in particular backfired. Overall, though, I think it's a pretty good list.

Things on my wishlist that the 111th failed to deliver:

Comprehensive energy policy
Global warming amelioration
Deficit reduction (thru millionaire tax hike, military spending cuts)
Repeal or roll back PATRIOT act
My unicorn

Exodor wrote: Small Business Lending Fund

Nobody seems to care about this at all - no polling easily found.

Not surprising as it addressed a nonexistent problem...businesses were/are not forgoing loans due to lack of access to credit.

Food Safety

Can't seem to find any polling

Unsurprising since Obama is just signing it today. This one enjoyed wide bipartisan support, btw. It updates a 1938 law, IIRC.

Weapons Acquisition Overhaul

Whuh?

Passed the House 411-0. Ended no-bid contracts and blank-check cost overruns. Cut some weapons systems that were way behind schedule and over budget. It basically gave the Pentagon more control over its contractors.

I guess I care about the Don't ask Don't Tell, because the people it is going to change the most for is service members, so I care about that. Now maybe I have an understanding of why they felt that way, as I am a Vet. So I care how they feel about stuff that is causing them to change. IE - if something was changing at your work, you would want a say in it.

Being in the service is not like a regular job. I was in the Navy, and lived in a crew compartment with over 100 other guys. I am not sure how I would feel about having gays in their with me. <shrug> As a civilian I think the change is great, as long as we don't have to have 4 types of birthing compartments. (Men, Women, Gay Men, Gay Women) Or 4 types of barracks, ect.. Sorry for the derail..

I guess I don't buy that overall people are happy with the legislation but unhappy with congress. I am neither happy with the legislation nor have I been happy with congress for a long time.

Maybe that proves your point, as I might have liked some legislation in the past but was unhappy with congress. <shrug> I'll have to think on it.

RMC wrote:I guess I care about the Don't ask Don't Tell, because the people it is going to change the most for is service members, so I care about that. Now maybe I have an understanding of why they felt that way, as I am a Vet. So I care how they feel about stuff that is causing them to change. IE - if something was changing at your work, you would want a say in it.

Holy shit.

Where do you work? I can count on one finger the number of times I've been consulted on changes at work.

Being in the service is not like a regular job. I was in the Navy, and lived in a crew compartment with over 100 other guys. I am not sure how I would feel about having gays in their with me. <shrug>

You almost certainly already served with closeted gays.

Exodor wrote:You almost certainly already served with closeted gays.

That can't be, they don't have room for closets on the ships.

Arcanis wrote:

Exodor wrote:You almost certainly already served with closeted gays.

That can't be, they don't have room for closets on the ships.

The whole ship is the closet. I mean, they have sailors on those ships.

RMC wrote:I guess I care about the Don't ask Don't Tell, because the people it is going to change the most for is service members, so I care about that. Now maybe I have an understanding of why they felt that way, as I am a Vet. So I care how they feel about stuff that is causing them to change. IE - if something was changing at your work, you would want a say in it.

Uhh...according to them, they favor repealing it (allegedly). I'd like to see the polls you promised us that you'd find.

I bring this up because David Gergen is a reasonable fellow, and I've found him to be remarkably fair and honest in his political analysis on CNN. I was reading an article from him today (here) that touched on the points of this particular thread. Specifically on this topic, he mentioned:

David Gergen wrote:On "don't ask, don't tell," and on START, the White House had a different, but equally formidable, coalition that helped to turn the tide in the president's direction. The fact that Bob Gates -- one of the most respected defense chiefs in history -- and the chair of the Joint Chiefs, along with the poll of service members, came out in favor of repealing DADT made a huge difference in swaying both public opinion and Congress.

I've seen polls that show the public approval of repealing DADT as high as 77%.

I would like to see your polling data on the service members themselves, as they don't jive with Gergen's comments (or a variety of other similar comments I've seen).

http://www.palmcenter.org/publications/ ... eterans%20" target="_blank
http://www.palmcenter.org/files/active/0/randstudy.pdf" target="_blank

From the pdf:

Survey results during the 90s with 70%-74% opposed open service.
Survey results 2004-2007 with 40%-57% opposed open service.

Victoria Raverna wrote:Survey results during the 90s with 70%-74% opposed open service.
Survey results 2004-2007 with 40%-57% opposed open service.

That's what I was alluding too. The younger crop of soldiers seem to support repealing it. The outlier there seems to be the Marines, but what do you expect out of them?

El Guapo wrote:This kind of partisan divide is definitely not new. The country has survived for over two centuries with bitter partisan divides (plus one little civil war ), we'll survive this too. In 50 years we'll be talking abou how partisan the neo-democrats are, and how much better it was when people got along back in 2010.

And yeah, "accomplishments" are absolutely in the eye of the beholder. This is just to say that this is an unusually productive congress in terms of major legislation passed (presumably in large part because it's the Congress most dominated by one party in recent history).

Yeah you are probably right.

Exodor wrote:

One has to wonder if accomplishments the majority of the US don't agree with are really accomplishments at all.

I wonder where you get your numbers.


Health care reform

Majorities oppose repeal. In most polls a plurality support the law.


Student loan overhaul

64% support


Repeal DADT

~75% support


Ratified New START (probably)

73% support


American Recovery and Reinvestment Act

Not as unpopular as you'd think.


HIRE Act

I can't seem to find any polling on this at all.


Cash for Clunkers

No recent polling but we'll say it's fairly unpopular - except with those who got a check.


Wall Street Reform

65% supported back in April


Tax Relief Package

59% approve


Small Business Lending Fund

Nobody seems to care about this at all - no polling easily found.


Food Safety

Can't seem to find any polling


Tobacco Regulation by FDA

In 2007, 70% support


Housing Loan Modification

No polling found


Credit Card Company Regulations

"Strong support"


Weapons Acquisition Overhaul

Whuh?



Iran Sanctions

77% support



So basically every bill has majority support except the stimulus, possibly Cash for Clunkers and health care reform which has plurality support.

Do you have numbers that show otherwise?

You can get any idiot to say anything in a poll. The poll that matters happened in November and the results were overwhelming.

msduncan wrote:You can get any idiot to say anything in a poll. The poll that matters happened in November and the results were overwhelming.

Ah, the old "if the facts disagree with me then ignore the facts!" defense.

Priceless.

msduncan wrote:You can get any idiot to say anything in a poll. The poll that matters happened in November and the results were overwhelming.

That didn't seem to stop you from thinking that everyone agreed with you in 2006, when the only poll that mattered said that the rest of the country wanted the Democrats in charge.

RunningMn9 wrote:

msduncan wrote:You can get any idiot to say anything in a poll. The poll that matters happened in November and the results were overwhelming.

That didn't seem to stop you from thinking that everyone agreed with you in 2006, when the only poll that mattered said that the rest of the country wanted the Democrats in charge.

Mandates of the people are only meaningful when the people vote in republicans.

LordMortis wrote:

RunningMn9 wrote:

msduncan wrote:You can get any idiot to say anything in a poll. The poll that matters happened in November and the results were overwhelming.

That didn't seem to stop you from thinking that everyone agreed with you in 2006, when the only poll that mattered said that the rest of the country wanted the Democrats in charge.

Mandates of the people are only meaningful when the people vote in republicans.

I learned this from Fox News

Congress can pass a lot of legislation that is popular, but not itself be popular, because people don't connect the legislative process with policy outcomes. Folks tend to *hate* the legislative process, with its constant bickering, delays, dealmaking, arm-twisting, etc. Most bills that have wide support tend to see that support drop while the actual legislative process is taking place and usually rise back up after passage, if the bill survives. Congress doesn't get associated with the implementation of popular parts of the law, the President does. But Congress, and usually Congress alone, is associated with the nearly universally-reviled legislative process.

In a low turnout midterm year, the anger of the Republicans for seeing a lot of bills they don't like get passed, was an overwhelming force at the voting booth. Similarly, the anger of Democrats at Bush's endless wars and incompetence was overwhelming in 2006. It's dangerous to read too much into midterm election results. Polls clearly show that the public is not onboard with a wholesale repeal of health care, and the Republicans are on the wrong side of public opinion regarding tax cuts for the wealthy and other items on their legislative priority list. The risk of overplaying their hand, as the Republican majority of 1995 did, is very high. Probably not enough to lose them control of the House in the next election, but I think their overreach, combined with the base-satisfying rush of good bills passed by the Lame Duck Session have put President Obama in a very good place, politically.

I'll wager $100 to charity of the winner's choice right now that President Obama wins re-election in 2012.

I'll wager $100 to charity of the winner's choice right now that President Obama wins re-election in 2012.

Based on several things.....incumbents tend to win re-election..the republicans as of now don't have a real strong candidate....the success of the last few weeks.....I would agree with you.

But things can change in a hurry.

Scuzz wrote:

I'll wager $100 to charity of the winner's choice right now that President Obama wins re-election in 2012.

Based on several things.....incumbents tend to win re-election..the republicans as of now don't have a real strong candidate....the success of the last few weeks.....I would agree with you.

But things can change in a hurry.

Indeed two years is a lifetime politically. It would be a fool's bet for either side.

Edit: And the Democrats are really bragging about cramming through some additional bills in the last days of a Congress that overwhelmingly favors them in numbers?

msduncan wrote:

Scuzz wrote:

I'll wager $100 to charity of the winner's choice right now that President Obama wins re-election in 2012.

Based on several things.....incumbents tend to win re-election..the republicans as of now don't have a real strong candidate....the success of the last few weeks.....I would agree with you.

But things can change in a hurry.

Indeed two years is a lifetime politically. It would be a fool's bet for either side.

Edit: And the Democrats are really bragging about cramming through some additional bills in the last days of a Congress that overwhelmingly favors them in numbers?

Didn't the Republicans threaten to shut down the Senate if they repealed DADT? Ratifying New START under those circumstances is pretty impressive work by John Kerry.

Fireball1244 wrote:I'll wager $100 to charity of the winner's choice right now that President Obama wins re-election in 2012.

2012 is a political lifetime away. I wouldn't make/take that bet yet.

msduncan wrote:And the Democrats are really bragging about cramming through some additional bills in the last days of a Congress that overwhelmingly favors them in numbers?

Not so much "Democrats" as "the Obama Administration". The Democrats haven't been super happy about passing all of these (most notably the tax compromise).

I gotta say, Obama looks to have his mojo back . He got passed the new tax bill, START, repealed DADT, 9/11 Responders Aid (who's idea was it for the Republicans to oppose this bill? ), Food Safety, extension of Unemployment Benefits . . . not bad, and 56% of the public supports his work in the lame duck session. But he's still got to get the economy going in the right direction - that's the game breaker there. But not bad for someone who was looking pretty weak right after the election.

Grifman wrote:I gotta say, Obama looks to have his mojo back .

Did you just re-link my link?!? Tainto!!

RunningMn9 wrote:

Grifman wrote:I gotta say, Obama looks to have his mojo back .

Did you just re-link my link?!? Tainto!!

Hah, I guess my brain was suffering from global cooling!

Kraken wrote:Let us note the closing of the 111th Congress...probably the most activist Congress of my lifetime and among the most effective in US history. Its abysmal approval ratings testify to its productivity.

And yet, while it's still early, the same cannot be said of the 112th congress, that similarly has abysmal approval rating:

The 112th Congress is on pace to be one of the least productive in recent memory — as measured by votes taken, bills made into laws, nominees approved. By most of those metrics, this crowd is underperforming even the "do-nothing Congress" of 1948, as Harry Truman dubbed it. The hot-temper era of Clinton impeachment in the 1990s saw more bills become law.

And still nothing accomplished on the budget or resolving the U.S. debt limit, the signature issues of the 112th Congress. Republican strategists have worked hard to create this budgetary crisis over the last 20 years, and the real response has been to attack public sector unions at the state level.