Now Wisconsin

[Rip]

Unions are just organized leeches. I hope every state passes RTW laws.

I hope that at some point you manage to educate yourself.

Unions are in disfavor for a reason. If they want someone to blame they should look in the mirror.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics reported that unions lost 612,000 members in 2010, dropping the unionized share of the work force to 11.9 percent from 12.3 percent in 2009. That follows a loss of 771,000 workers in 2008, continuing a steady decline from the 1950s when more than a third of American workers belonged to unions.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... o-decline/

They were in decline long before the recent RtW frenzy hit. Given the violent and revolting way they have been protesting I doubt they will find themselves returning to favor.

[Remus West]

violent and revolting? Chanting on the lawn of the capital is revolting? Zero injuries is violent? You need to look to your own prejudices.

As for simply being organized leeches, my union has given in to the district on every negotiating point the last three contracts. We have taken pay reduction. We have taken changes to our retirement that will cost us money. We have taken changes to our healthcare that will cost us money. We have allowed changes to the financing of our classrooms and made that difference up out of our own pockets. You want to call me an organized leech for that? If you're so happy with RtW states why don't you look at this:
Some Michigan educational stats while we were still a state of "organized leeches"
Some Louisianna educational stats RtW state

Michigan has been struggling with our educational system and serving our children yet even with our group of leeches attached to us we handily outscore your RtW state. On average Unionized states score better than RtW states in every catagory.

I'm not trying to say that Unions are perfect. Far from it. However, I not going to sit and allow you to make blanket accusations based simply off of what you hear rather than any point of truth. The impact unions have towards the positive is not measured as a popularity contest so declining numbers mean nothing when talking about what unions actually do for workers. For you to try and suggest that they do nothing and then hold up declining numbers as your proof only shows how ignorant you are of the purpose of unions.

[Pyperkub]

vI'm not trying to say that Unions are perfect. Far from it. However, I not going to sit and allow you to make blanket accusations based simply off of what you hear rather than any point of truth. The impact unions have towards the positive is not measured as a popularity contest so declining numbers mean nothing when talking about what unions actually do for workers. For you to try and suggest that they do nothing and then hold up declining numbers as your proof only shows how ignorant you are of the purpose of unions.

This is what has driven my largely pro-union stance on this board. My family's historical business was forced into a hostile takeover and closure of the traditional factories due in part to Union demands in the '60's.

However, that was a different time, when Unions threw their weight around with a lot of impunity and asshattery.

Now, they are a vanishing breed, and I see them as necessary to maintaining any sort of balance. The loss of union power has been a direct contributor to the concentration of wealth in the top 0.01%'s hands in this country, despite the massive productivity gains the country has seen in the past 30 years, and it is my position that disparity is a bad thing for this country.

Perhaps that disparity can be addressed without Unions, but I don't see it happening. I'm not arguing for equality, but I see that disparity as (at least in part) being driven by political policy written by the ones making that money. The pendulum has swung away from that Union power and doesn't appear to be swinging back into balance. As Unions and their political clout fade, so do the balancing factors against those policies. What I want mostly is balance. What I see is eradication of opposition and voices. Or at least marginalization so severe that it amounts to eradication.

[Combustible Lemur]

The reasons for Union decline are numerous and stem from both sides of the argument. To denote the actual workforce as leeches is so phenomenally biased as the be ridiculous. To say that some unions have pushed working conditions to such levels that they hamper productivity and can be harmful to state governments and individual companies because of such is fair.

Leeches are something that you remove and don't replace. Skilled labor is a symbiote. Just try and remove all bacteria from your body and see how well you do.

The problem with saying the Unions as an idea can be bullies, is that for a Union to work everyone has to be on board. For Unions to fail you only need enough workers to scab the strike.

I tend to be right to Work, But I also tend to be pro Union. I detest stripping people of the right to collectively walk out.

[LordMortis]

I tend to be right to Work, But I also tend to be pro Union. I detest stripping people of the right to collectively walk out.

I dot think you should ever strip people of the right to unionize or collectively walk out. As far as I know this isn't what right to work does. Right to work strips a union's ability to coerce a worker to join.

That said, I am anti union in that I am anti union coercion to the employee and would support right to work legislation.

Even more than being anti union, I am anti what my governor and his legislature have done. It's so slimey it calls into to question our entire bureaucratic process and it's worthy of charges to recall him IMO. Add this to his governor edict emergency manager shenanigans and his governance has been the most authoritarian anti rule of law and rule of the people in my lifetime, something republicans are supposed to be against. It's implied in their name, ferchrisake.

[Remus West]

The issue I have with RtW is that it doesn't opt you out of the benefits of being in a Union. If you don't want to be part of the Union I'm fine with that but you should then also be responsible for your own negotiations for contracts, benefits, and everything else. Then, if the company tries to screw you don't expect the Union to pay for your defense. RtW simply allows people to not pay in and then withdraw at need. If they don't want to be part of the Union then they should not be part of the Union at all. No costs for them but no benefits either.

[LordMortis]

The issue I have with RtW is that it doesn't opt you out of the benefits of being in a Union. If you don't want to be part of the Union I'm fine with that but you should then also be responsible for your own negotiations for contracts, benefits, and everything else. Then, if the company tries to screw you don't expect the Union to pay for your defense. RtW simply allows people to not pay in and then withdraw at need. If they don't want to be part of the Union then they should not be part of the Union at all. No costs for them but no benefits either.

Absolutely.

[Combustible Lemur]

To a certain extent you are. If something legally complicated were to happen, I am on my own. And in the many cases, union and non union don't make the same money and do not receive the same benefits. In theatre many businesses either hire union or non union; they are two distinct tiers of employment. I would assume it's that way across the entire entertainment industry.

Sent from mah Incredible'

[Rip]

violent and revolting? Chanting on the lawn of the capital is revolting? Zero injuries is violent? You need to look to your own prejudices.

As for simply being organized leeches, my union has given in to the district on every negotiating point the last three contracts. We have taken pay reduction. We have taken changes to our retirement that will cost us money. We have taken changes to our healthcare that will cost us money. We have allowed changes to the financing of our classrooms and made that difference up out of our own pockets. You want to call me an organized leech for that? If you're so happy with RtW states why don't you look at this:
Some Michigan educational stats while we were still a state of "organized leeches"
Some Louisianna educational stats RtW state

Michigan has been struggling with our educational system and serving our children yet even with our group of leeches attached to us we handily outscore your RtW state. On average Unionized states score better than RtW states in every catagory.

I'm not trying to say that Unions are perfect. Far from it. However, I not going to sit and allow you to make blanket accusations based simply off of what you hear rather than any point of truth. The impact unions have towards the positive is not measured as a popularity contest so declining numbers mean nothing when talking about what unions actually do for workers. For you to try and suggest that they do nothing and then hold up declining numbers as your proof only shows how ignorant you are of the purpose of unions.

Steven Crowder would disagree.

As for educational systems. Louisiana is unionized. Not to mention that union has fought tooth and nails to prevent more efficient non-union private options. Ones that worked fabulously in NO after Katrina BTW.

Just because a state is RtW doesn't destroy unions it just gives people back the choice they should have had all along.

[Remus West]

You either being foolish or deliberately misinterpreting what I posted regarding education. RtW does not remove Unions from the state. Gee, thanks. Would you like to take a look at the links I provided showing how Louisiana, a RtW state is worse off in each category than Michigan, which was not a RtW state when the data was created? Would you like to comment on the fact that RtW states on average score lower across the board than non-RtW states? Did you even look at that?

As for Steven Crowder (I had to google the name) there has been nothing said in local media regarding him or any punch in the face. I'll look for some clips of that tomorrow to see what there is but you'll forgive me if I refuse to trust Fox News to be a fair and balanced source here. Which is not to say the person who punched him was in the right. He certainly wasn't regardless of any provocation or lack thereof. It is to say that when the differences in the story are regarding what happened before the punch and Fox gives a clip of what happened after the punch to refute those differences......
I'll see what I can find. On the other hand, even if the charges are true, one person getting punched during a highly emotional rally of over 12000 people doesn't exactly strike me as "Union thuggery".

As for "more efficient private options" what would those be? Be so kind as to provide a link to some of the articles on that.

[Rip]

You either being foolish or deliberately misinterpreting what I posted regarding education. RtW does not remove Unions from the state. Gee, thanks. Would you like to take a look at the links I provided showing how Louisiana, a RtW state is worse off in each category than Michigan, which was not a RtW state when the data was created? Would you like to comment on the fact that RtW states on average score lower across the board than non-RtW states? Did you even look at that?

As for Steven Crowder (I had to google the name) there has been nothing said in local media regarding him or any punch in the face. I'll look for some clips of that tomorrow to see what there is but you'll forgive me if I refuse to trust Fox News to be a fair and balanced source here. Which is not to say the person who punched him was in the right. He certainly wasn't regardless of any provocation or lack thereof. It is to say that when the differences in the story are regarding what happened before the punch and Fox gives a clip of what happened after the punch to refute those differences......
I'll see what I can find. On the other hand, even if the charges are true, one person getting punched during a highly emotional rally of over 12000 people doesn't exactly strike me as "Union thuggery".

As for "more efficient private options" what would those be? Be so kind as to provide a link to some of the articles on that.

Just google vouchers and New Orleans and have fun.

There was also some hot dog guy that got roughed up and from what I understand called an uncle tom and a bunch of other names.

No matter they can tantrum all they want, I expect to see more RtW states not less.

[Remus West]

Vouchers are NOT a more efficient system. They do nothing to address the learning needs of the populations. They do nothing to actually attempt to fix any issues. They are simply a way to shuffle students around which merely transfers the challenge from one place to the next without providing the means of meeting the challenge. If that is the only thing the New Orleans teachers union fought against then good for them. Vouchers need to be fought and defeated everywhere.

[GreenGoo]

This is ridiculous. Unions exist because all the violations and violence were from management. That's how they came into existence.

A union is not inherently violent or leech-like.

I am unionized, for the record. We are not violent nor are our demands unreasonable. Have the scales tipped too much in favour of the employee? Possibly, but it's not completely out of balance, and my employer literally has the ability to legislate us back to work if they decide that's a good way forward. Plus, when you are dealing with that many employees, it makes sense for both sides to negotiate work contracts in bulk.

Also for the record, I have never been on strike, as so far there has been no need. Both sides, while playing a bit rough at the table, usually let rationality win out.

[Unagi]

Also for the record, I have never been on strike, as so far there has been no need. Both sides, while playing a bit rough at the table, usually let rationality win out.

Location: Ottawa, ON

[GreenGoo]

Also for the record, I have never been on strike, as so far there has been no need. Both sides, while playing a bit rough at the table, usually let rationality win out.

Location: Ottawa, ON

I'm not in PSAC, which is the major public service union, if that's what you're talking about. I have also been without a contract for quite awhile now. Over a year, for sure. I don't actually pay that close attention. Maybe rational was the wrong word to use.

[LordMortis]

Hey Remus maybe now you can shoot your kids in self defense:

http://www.freep.com/article/20121213/NEWS06/121213076" target="_blank

State House passes bill allowing concealed weapons in schools, day care centers, stadiums, churches

We know the legislation will be better for because our legislator and the governor, masters of replacing locally elected officials are secure that their own positions are safely on the side of justice...

http://m.freep.com/localnews/article?a= ... 016&f=1232" target="_blank

* Bills that make it tougher to recall state lawmakers.

(Why hinder my right to fire these guys in favor of the best quality elected officials in our newly acquired Right to Work state?)

I'm just kidding we all know the voters told Snyder to go to hell last month with his emergency manager bullshit

A replacement emergency manager law, less than two months after voters rejected the former law, Public Act 4 of 2011.

I'm pretty certain that in if this insanity stays in place in 2014, I'll be wishing I can find a way to pack up and leave. Our elected officials are going off the high on power deep end.

[Remus West]

I saw those headline blurbs in this morning's paper. I won't have time to read them until lunch. I'm very interested in how they try to justify the idea of making it alright to pack heat in school.

I really thought the RtW would be the shadiest thing that happened for a long while but passing a Manager law right after the voters shot one that is essentially the same down? Really? It doesn't shock me that they are trying to make it harder to recall State officials though since they are doing everything they can to make people want to recall them.

[Remus West]

Also for the record, I have never been on strike, as so far there has been no need. Both sides, while playing a bit rough at the table, usually let rationality win out.

Location: Ottawa, ON

His statements apply to American Unions as well. I have begun several school years without a contract as the two side negotiated. Not once has there even been talk of going on strike other than from a few idiots that were literally laughed at during the union meetings. It washonestly one of the more amusing moments I have ever seen involving the union as the president was laughing and the person who brought it up interupted to say they were serious. The laughter dropped from the president's face and he simply looked at the guy for a second before going "No, that is not on the table at this time" and moving on.

[GreenGoo]

Oh, he might be talking about a 1 day strike elementary school teachers just did this week, for one of the school boards in Ottawa. The thought never even occured to me, but it's probably as good an example as any. My kids are not in that school board so I admit to not paying that close attention to what the sticking point is, but I'm fairly sure elementary school teachers are neither violent thugs nor leeches.

If you guys have problems with teachers unions down south, you can imagine how it works up here in our socialist paradise.

edit: The elementary school teacher rolling one day strikes in Ontario are over a Bill (115) introduced to give the provincial government the power to unilaterally force a contract onto the teachers if an agreement can't be met by a specific date. Essentially bypassing collective bargaining if the governments feels like it (assuming no agreement has been reached).

I'm unclear on whether this will be used for all future disputes, or instead of collective bargaining entirely.

[Unagi]

Also for the record, I have never been on strike, as so far there has been no need. Both sides, while playing a bit rough at the table, usually let rationality win out.

Location: Ottawa, ON

I'm not in PSAC, which is the major public service union, if that's what you're talking about. I have also been without a contract for quite awhile now. Over a year, for sure. I don't actually pay that close attention. Maybe rational was the wrong word to use.

I was just saying that I feel Canadian's are often more rational than Americans.

on my side.... Location: Chicago

[Rip]

Vouchers are NOT a more efficient system. They do nothing to address the learning needs of the populations. They do nothing to actually attempt to fix any issues. They are simply a way to shuffle students around which merely transfers the challenge from one place to the next without providing the means of meeting the challenge. If that is the only thing the New Orleans teachers union fought against then good for them. Vouchers need to be fought and defeated everywhere.

The thousands of people on waiting lists to get into the voucher schools would disagree.

[Rip]

Oh, he might be talking about a 1 day strike elementary school teachers just did this week, for one of the school boards in Ottawa. The thought never even occured to me, but it's probably as good an example as any. My kids are not in that school board so I admit to not paying that close attention to what the sticking point is, but I'm fairly sure elementary school teachers are neither violent thugs nor leeches.

If you guys have problems with teachers unions down south, you can imagine how it works up here in our socialist paradise.

edit: The elementary school teacher rolling one day strikes in Ontario are over a Bill (115) introduced to give the provincial government the power to unilaterally force a contract onto the teachers if an agreement can't be met by a specific date. Essentially bypassing collective bargaining if the governments feels like it (assuming no agreement has been reached).

I'm unclear on whether this will be used for all future disputes, or instead of collective bargaining entirely.

I used to teach and I was looked at as a trouble maker because I worked more hours than the others and refused to take days off to go protest in Baton Rouge.

I sort of felt like RGIII might at an NAACP rally.

[Remus West]

Vouchers are NOT a more efficient system. They do nothing to address the learning needs of the populations. They do nothing to actually attempt to fix any issues. They are simply a way to shuffle students around which merely transfers the challenge from one place to the next without providing the means of meeting the challenge. If that is the only thing the New Orleans teachers union fought against then good for them. Vouchers need to be fought and defeated everywhere.

The thousands of people on waiting lists to get into the voucher schools would disagree.

Of course they would and they would be totally wrong. Seems like everyone feels they are an expert on education but make these claims with zero training in education or, in this case, funding education. The only thing Vouchers do it allow student mobility - which is put forth as the solve all answer to public school issues when the reality is that they do nothing towards solving the challenges facing public schools. Take a group of troubled students from one over burdened school and transfer them to the nearest "successful" school and what happens? The previously successful school faces the challenge of placing the students (increased class size isn't an actual plus), highering qualified teachers to meet the expanded demands of the school, in addition to all of the social issues the new students present that the school may or may not have experience handling. Then there is the school they leave. Less students = less funding = more struggles. Yeah, that's a wonderful solution to the issues.
Student mobility simply passes on the challenges to another area it does nothing to address them.
You mention that you taught. What type of training did you have to be in the classroom? My first year teaching in Florida I taught under what was called emergency certification. As I had bachelors degrees in Math and English the state certified me to teach for three years. I had no teaching experience other than coaching and no classes on education at that point. Were you a trained educator or did you do something similar?

[Rip]

Vouchers are NOT a more efficient system. They do nothing to address the learning needs of the populations. They do nothing to actually attempt to fix any issues. They are simply a way to shuffle students around which merely transfers the challenge from one place to the next without providing the means of meeting the challenge. If that is the only thing the New Orleans teachers union fought against then good for them. Vouchers need to be fought and defeated everywhere.

The thousands of people on waiting lists to get into the voucher schools would disagree.

Of course they would and they would be totally wrong. Seems like everyone feels they are an expert on education but make these claims with zero training in education or, in this case, funding education. The only thing Vouchers do it allow student mobility - which is put forth as the solve all answer to public school issues when the reality is that they do nothing towards solving the challenges facing public schools. Take a group of troubled students from one over burdened school and transfer them to the nearest "successful" school and what happens? The previously successful school faces the challenge of placing the students (increased class size isn't an actual plus), highering qualified teachers to meet the expanded demands of the school, in addition to all of the social issues the new students present that the school may or may not have experience handling. Then there is the school they leave. Less students = less funding = more struggles. Yeah, that's a wonderful solution to the issues.
Student mobility simply passes on the challenges to another area it does nothing to address them.
You mention that you taught. What type of training did you have to be in the classroom? My first year teaching in Florida I taught under what was called emergency certification. As I had bachelors degrees in Math and English the state certified me to teach for three years. I had no teaching experience other than coaching and no classes on education at that point. Were you a trained educator or did you do something similar?

The reality is that previously unsuccessful students en masse became successful in these new schools. It isn't the students that are broken it is the system.

It was a state technical school and my technical skills were head and shoulders above the other technology instructors mostly because I came from industry instead of the system. But of course those instructors were not going anywhere, in fact even they tried to get the one of their own who was almost incompetent dismissed to absolutely no success. When you work for the government and are union here politics has WAY more importance than your competence.

I still run into former students occasionally and almost always hear comments about how I was the only class they actually learned anything useful in.

I was teaching electronics, BTW.

I was educated technically by the USN in a fraction of the time it would have taken me to learn the same information in these so called technical colleges.

[Remus West]

So, you had no formal training in teaching and your were teaching a vocational skill rather than an academic one. Very different animals. Most kids taking vocational classes want to be there while they want to be out of their other classes.

Also, I'd like it if you could show numbers rather than just saying what you want to back your position. I'd like to know how many of the voucher kids were accepted, graduated/dropped out, their GPAs, did they continue their education, etc.

As for your experience with your union, that is a problem with the union but it is not a problem with all unions. Our union was working with the district to replace the senority system so that it would be easier to keep more competant teachers over poor ones. The problem arises in determining what makes a competant teacher. If you use test scores then you punish the teacher who is willing to step up to the challenge of teaching low achieving students. For instance, I have had well over half my class in each of my years here unable to do basic arithmatic when they got to my classroom. Those are elementary level skills that the kids do not possess when they come to me. If base an evaluation of me purely off exit test scores I am going to look very bad. If you base it off of their desire to learn and the progress they have made in a single school year I am going to look very good. If you base it off administrator evaluations I am going to look very good. The government only wants to discuss using raw test scores. Obviously I am not going to approve of that and remain in the position I am currently teaching as it is simply not an acceptable method of judging the amount my students learn.

*by raw scores I mean if they exit with a 59% (failure) then I get rated as a failure even if they came in with below a 10%. In spite of the student improving by 40% I'd be labelled a failure. By contrast, most upper level classes begin with students able to test in the 70% on the entrance exam so even if they learn nothing the teacher will be given a passing mark.

[Rip]

So, you had no formal training in teaching and your were teaching a vocational skill rather than an academic one. Very different animals. Most kids taking vocational classes want to be there while they want to be out of their other classes.

Also, I'd like it if you could show numbers rather than just saying what you want to back your position. I'd like to know how many of the voucher kids were accepted, graduated/dropped out, their GPAs, did they continue their education, etc.

As for your experience with your union, that is a problem with the union but it is not a problem with all unions. Our union was working with the district to replace the senority system so that it would be easier to keep more competant teachers over poor ones. The problem arises in determining what makes a competant teacher. If you use test scores then you punish the teacher who is willing to step up to the challenge of teaching low achieving students. For instance, I have had well over half my class in each of my years here unable to do basic arithmatic when they got to my classroom. Those are elementary level skills that the kids do not possess when they come to me. If base an evaluation of me purely off exit test scores I am going to look very bad. If you base it off of their desire to learn and the progress they have made in a single school year I am going to look very good. If you base it off administrator evaluations I am going to look very good. The government only wants to discuss using raw test scores. Obviously I am not going to approve of that and remain in the position I am currently teaching as it is simply not an acceptable method of judging the amount my students learn.

*by raw scores I mean if they exit with a 59% (failure) then I get rated as a failure even if they came in with below a 10%. In spite of the student improving by 40% I'd be labelled a failure. By contrast, most upper level classes begin with students able to test in the 70% on the entrance exam so even if they learn nothing the teacher will be given a passing mark.

Should find most of what you seek here.

http://www.choicefoundation.org/index.jsp

[Remus West]

There is some interesting stuff on that site but I was looking more for the data regarding students from the various schools. Not much data found in a quick search through of that site. I'll see what I can dig up if I have time this weekend.

[Combustible Lemur]

Vouchers are NOT a more efficient system. They do nothing to address the learning needs of the populations. They do nothing to actually attempt to fix any issues. They are simply a way to shuffle students around which merely transfers the challenge from one place to the next without providing the means of meeting the challenge. If that is the only thing the New Orleans teachers union fought against then good for them. Vouchers need to be fought and defeated everywhere.

The thousands of people on waiting lists to get into the voucher schools would disagree.

Funnily enough, thousands waiting to get into schools that are now being funnelled additional money is exactly why the traditional voucher system is as untenable as the current model.

Sent from mah Incredible'

[Defiant]

Arise from the dead

The Wisconsin Supreme Court will release opinions on the three biggest cases of its term on Thursday.

The cases include a challenge brought by Madison Teachers Inc. against Act 10, the controversial 2011 law that largely ended collective bargaining for most public employees in the state.

[Rip]

Wisconsin lawmakers voted Friday to make their state the 25th to enact right-to-work legislation, pushing a fast-tracked bill through the Assembly after an overnight debate and sending it on to Gov. Scott Walker for his promised signature.

The proposal would make it a crime punishable by up to nine months in jail to require private-sector workers who aren't in a union to pay dues.

Supporters argued it would make Wisconsin more attractive to businesses looking to move in or expand. But opponents said the goal is to destroy unions, which tend to vote Democrat, and a right-to-work law would depress wage and create more dangerous workplaces, in turn hurting the economy.

Twenty-four other states have right-to-work laws. Michigan and Indiana were the two most recent states to enact it, both in 2012.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03 ... latestnews

[GreenGoo]

The original issue, if I remember correctly, had nothing to do with right to work and everything to do with destroying collective bargaining.

Has something changed? Are unions and more importantly, collective bargaining still an option?

edit: I started to go back to see what the deal was, but I found it annoying and generally too much work, so I stopped.

[Isgrimnur]

Might want to offload any state bonds you're holding.

To help close the state’s $283 million budget shortfall this year, Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker (R) plans to skip a $108 million debt payment scheduled for May.
...
By missing the May payment, Walker will incur about $1.1 million in additional interest fees between 2015 and 2017. The $108 million debt will continue to live on the books; Walker’s budget proposal for 2015-2017 will pay down no more than about $18 million of the principal.
...
In March last year, Walker signed a $541 million tax cut for both families and businesses. At that point, Wisconsin was facing a $1 billion budget surplus through June 2015, the Journal Sentinel reported.

By November last year, the administration was estimating a $132 million shortfall. In January, the non-partisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau pegged it at $283 million. The Bureau, which does research for the Wisconsin Legislature, explained that tax collections were $173 million worse than the administration’s own estimates in November.
...
Walker has bragged that he has approved $2 billion in tax cuts since he took office in 2011. The Legislative Fiscal Bureau told PolitiFact in March that the claim is accurate.

[malchior]

In find it amusing that Conservative dogma of never raising taxes even if it is completely irresponsible is driving similar behaviors between Walker and Christie. In both cases the taxpayers are suffering for the *completely unrealistic* Presidential aspirations of both.

[gbasden]

And to think that once upon a time, Republicans had the reputation of being the fiscally responsible party.

[Zarathud]

It's crazy. Rather than paying its bills, Wisconsin handed out tax cuts. We'll see if the markets punish Wisconsin more than Illinois in the bond markets.

[GreenGoo]

It's crazy. Rather than paying its bills, Wisconsin handed out tax cuts. We'll see if the markets punish Wisconsin more than Illinois in the bond markets.

At the time of the original post, the union pensions were solvent (and would be for years), but Walker was taking steps to put them in shortfall, all the while complaining that the pensions were bankrupting the state. That's about as dishonest as you can get, in my opinion. I mean, political ideology is one thing, but sabotaging things so you can say "see? Unions/pensions/collective bargaining is bad, mmkay?" is pretty low. Those are peoples' livelihoods he's messing with. People that will be MORE of a burden on the state if you remove their retirement savings.

Me no likey Walker.

[Pyperkub]

Next up on the Wisconsin roll-back of Union wins - the weekend:

As Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker signed the so-called “right to work” bill on March 9, making Wisconsin the twenty-fifth right-to-work state in the country, labor advocates braced themselves for the stream of anti-worker bills that were almost certain to follow. Many assumed the first target would be Wisconsin’s 1930s prevailing wage laws, which require that workers on public works projects be paid the established going rate for their labor, rather than allowing contractors to try to outbid each other by lowering workers’ wages. Few, however, expected the legislative cluster bomb that is currently being referred to committee by a pair of Republicans: a bill to repeal the weekend.

Though labor often boasts that it helped codify the two-day work break—witness the popular pro-labor bumper sticker, “Unions: the folks that brought you the weekend”—a day of rest is protected by law in only a fraction of the states. According to the Society for Human Resource Management, thirteen states have laws mandating a day of rest for some or all workers. In states that mandate a day of rest only for certain categories of workers, those workers are often in jobs where fatigue could lead to increased accidents or deaths.

Now that might be about to come to an end in Wisconsin...

...The new bill, which is being sponsored by Republican Van Wanggaard in the State Senate alongside Born in the Assembly, would add a provision to the “day of rest” law that could effectively nullify it. The bill would create an exemption that would allow employees to “voluntarily choose” to slave away for seven days in a row without at least twenty-four hours of rest.

Representative Born’s office played down the magnitude of the bill, arguing that it merely “codified into law the waiver system and made it easier for employers and employees to make work schedules.” But this new law cuts the regulatory body out of the equation, relying instead on the troubled notion that employers would allow employees to choose “voluntarily” to give up any day of rest. As Marquette University law professor Paul Secunda explained, the idea “completely ignores the power dynamic in the workplace, where workers often have a proverbial gun to the head.” Indeed, the reason Wisconsin had passed a “day of rest” law in the first place was because employers had been abusing employees by pressing them to work too many days without break. “Now this bill will force many workers to strike a bargain with the devil,” Secunda said.

[Rip]

[PLW]

I think laws capping the amount someone can work makes no sense in jobs where tired workers aren't a danger to external parties.

[Isgrimnur]

Yeah, fatigue might only mean that I miss a proper logic check and have a huge impact on our finances and operations.

Oh wait, I'm salary. Not like I get that protection now.