Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by Holman »

The Meal wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:46 pm
Holman wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:03 pm I recently saw it pointed out that the energy cost of mining enough bitcoin to buy a hamburger is the same as ordering a hamburger in California and having someone deliver it to you via Tesla from New York.

Is that so?
I've seen folks asking questions on solar forums regarding setups for bitcoin operations.

It's free to ask questions (even if they're really dumb questions), but that would seem to indicate to me that there are still places in the Western world where energy is cheap enough that bitcoin mining operations may provide a net positive gain.
I don't think the issue is one's electrical bill as much as the environmental impact.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Jaymann wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:43 pm
Punisher wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:20 pm Does anyone here actually mine? Is it worth it? How do you do it? Just curious whats involved and if it's something I can just do on my PC (or with some minor purchases) I think I might want to give it a try.
I am just now setting up a dedicated rig to start mining. Surprisingly the critical components are graphics cards, not the cpu, and lots of them. It appears you need at least about 6 to start to hit stride (requiring a special motherboard to handle that) and it is creating a run on GPU's. I'm looking at about $3k for the initial rig, plus the power to run it 24/7 - fortunately I have solar panels. Probably looking at about a year to get ROI. But in addition, if the crypto currency goes up in value you have that going for you.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LordMortis »

OK we've totally gone off the rails.

https://www.benzinga.com/markets/crypto ... ital-token

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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I think Grimes sold something like $6M in NFT tracks or art or something.

The NFL is looking to do something similar to what the NBA did with auctioning off NFT highlight clips. It's an endless source of income.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Tulips for everyone!
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:22 am I think Grimes sold something like $6M in NFT tracks or art or something.

The NFL is looking to do something similar to what the NBA did with auctioning off NFT highlight clips. It's an endless source of income.
Gronk just announced today that he was doing this. 4 scenes from his Super Bowl appearances with 87 copies of each. 1 foil card is going to be raffled to the buyers that will include a meet and greet with Gronk next season.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by hitbyambulance »

calculate the CO2 footprint of an ethereum address

https://carbon.fyi/
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:10 pm calculate the CO2 footprint of an ethereum address

https://carbon.fyi/
18kg for the one I checked, 0.4 ETH with a handful of sends and receives.

Wonder what the CO² footprint is for a checking account?


My pivot was when someone told me to look at BTC as a store of wealth rather than an everyday currency. ETH is similar.

Gold mining alone is around 1 tonne CO² per ounce. Doesn't count transport, storage, ledgerin, inventory, security, transacting, etc. Crypto is incredibly efficient when looked at in those terms.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LordMortis »

Not two days later and the news cycle is completely dominated by

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/11/most-ex ... llion.html
A non-fungible token by the artist Beeple sold at Christie’s for over $60 million, making it the most expensive NFT ever sold at auction.
Funny, I originally bumped this because of the nature of the burned piece, with an auction and self aware caption.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

I just bought some silver with some Bitcoin. Presumably I'm supposed to declare this and then calculate tax lots for the BTC.

Gonna be HIFO.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Josebaker wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:55 am I was thinking about this too one day. Couldn't you just move all your funds off of an exchange and you'd essentially be dodging the government? On top of that couldn't you just keep creating new wallets on other exchanges? That's the beauty of this type of currency, nothing connects you to a wallet unless you reveal that it's yours.
KYC/AML at the major exchanges and custodians connects a lot of people to wallets.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by jztemple2 »

Just thought I'd post this. This is from Marek Rosa, you can see his credentials at the bottom. He's the guy behind Space Engineers.
Why am I doubtful about the future of Bitcoin?
1. People use Bitcoin as a speculative asset rather than as a means of payment. Bitcoin isn't used where it could be most beneficial: storing and communicating value across time and space.
2. Volatility. It could be solved if we all use Bitcoin and nothing else. I don't know how this can be achieved.
3. Energy consumption. I could close my eyes on this if Bitcoin delivered what it promises. If Bitcoin would revolutionize the way we think about the economy, then the benefits could outweigh the energy costs.
4. What kind of complex system do we want our economy to be? Static and fixed? Or dynamic and evolving - with ever-changing credit-assignment schemes? If we get stuck with a monetary system that can't be adapted and regulated, it could have a terrible outcome.
5. This one is sci-fi but relevant: can Bitcoin communicate value across unlimited time and space? Imagine a multi-species civilization spanning thousands of years and multiple solar systems.
6. I am not convinced that wealth preservation over unlimited time is beneficial for the progress of humanity. Perhaps we should reward those who create new value instead of hanging on to piles of gold/Bitcoin.
7. Maybe the future of money is a decentralized cryptocurrency, but I am not convinced it will be Bitcoin. What if people in the future decide not to use the current Bitcoin but to start a Bitcoin 2.0 with fewer flaws? One of the reasons could be to avoid rewarding today's Bitcoin early adopters and speculators. Why? You don’t want to reward those who just lucked out in your credit assignment scheme. I am not convinced that rentiersm is beneficial for the economy.
8. There are many more entities in the economy than just money. Each of them must be incentivized to use Bitcoin and not want to overthrow it.

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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by em2nought »

Jaymann wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:43 pm
Punisher wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:20 pm Does anyone here actually mine? Is it worth it? How do you do it? Just curious whats involved and if it's something I can just do on my PC (or with some minor purchases) I think I might want to give it a try.
I am just now setting up a dedicated rig to start mining. Surprisingly the critical components are graphics cards, not the cpu, and lots of them. It appears you need at least about 6 to start to hit stride (requiring a special motherboard to handle that) and it is creating a run on GPU's. I'm looking at about $3k for the initial rig, plus the power to run it 24/7 - fortunately I have solar panels. Probably looking at about a year to get ROI. But in addition, if the crypto currency goes up in value you have that going for you.
So how is crypto mining going for you after this much time. My friend just set up a rig in December with five or six graphic cards, and I've been tweaking the ventilation on it. He built a little insulated room in the garage for it. Have part of it exhausting into the house air return and another fan exhausting up into the garage. Probably going to put a spinning vent on the garage roof soon. Have to get an AC set up for the hotter times. It was already too hot today in there at 94 degrees eventually. The house was nice and warm for an old lady anyway at 77 degrees, too hot for me. :doh:

Seems like a pain to deal with keeping a good temperature in there?
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by Jaymann »

My mining rig turned out to be a bust, so I used the parts to build this one. About a month ago I set up mining to run in the background. It's only about $15 per month, but it is going 24/7. And it does not interfere with gaming or PC performance.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:01 am My mining rig turned out to be a bust, so I used the parts to build this one. About a month ago I set up mining to run in the background. It's only about $15 per month, but it is going 24/7. And it does not interfere with gaming or PC performance.
Thanks for the reply. What problems did you face that turned it into a bust, if you don't mind elaborating?
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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em2nought wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:32 pm
Jaymann wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:01 am My mining rig turned out to be a bust, so I used the parts to build this one. About a month ago I set up mining to run in the background. It's only about $15 per month, but it is going 24/7. And it does not interfere with gaming or PC performance.
Thanks for the reply. What problems did you face that turned it into a bust, if you don't mind elaborating?
The motherboard we got was designed for many graphic cards but we couldn't get it to work. Then it got fried and we gave up. Sold the graphic cards to recoup somewhat then used the other components.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:41 pm
em2nought wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:32 pm
Jaymann wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 1:01 am My mining rig turned out to be a bust, so I used the parts to build this one. About a month ago I set up mining to run in the background. It's only about $15 per month, but it is going 24/7. And it does not interfere with gaming or PC performance.
Thanks for the reply. What problems did you face that turned it into a bust, if you don't mind elaborating?
The motherboard we got was designed for many graphic cards but we couldn't get it to work. Then it got fried and we gave up. Sold the graphic cards to recoup somewhat then used the other components.
This guys son is pretty good with the tech stuff, but his rig looks like an abomination. It's working so far though.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by pr0ner »

Watching crypto crash the past couple days (especially Terra's LUNA and other products) is wild.

This person lost almost $3M in about a day.



On April 5, Luna was worth $116.39.

On May 4, Luna was worth $86.17.

Right now? Luna is worth about $0.02. Its 7 day price change is -99.98%.

Even Terra's "stablecoin", UST, which was supposed to be roughly equal to the USD, has crashed, dropping as low as $0.30.
Last edited by pr0ner on Thu May 12, 2022 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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Frankly, I'm hoping this will take the wind out of cybercriminals sails.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by RunningMn9 »

What did these folks think was gonna happen?
And in banks across the world
Christians, Moslems, Hindus, Jews
And every other race, creed, colour, tint or hue
Get down on their knees and pray
The raccoon and the groundhog neatly
Make up bags of change
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Well he's slowly drifting out of range
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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They probably thought crypto was never going to go anywhere but up up up, and weren't diversified at all.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

UST was the result of a coordinated attack. Reminiscent of Soros and silver. LUNA was collateral damage.
As a result, the attacker had built $4.2 billion in Bitcoin short positions by April 11. Simultaneously, the attacker also builds $1 billion in over-the-counter (OTC) position in UST. Now, this sets the stage to liquidate the UST and simultaneously short the Bitcoin, knowing the fact that LFG will sell its Bitcoins to protect the UST peg.
I believe the term is "shit coins."
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by msteelers »

I have a buddy who is big into crypto and NFTs and I let him pay me some money he owed me in ETH. Unfortunately, I didn't turn it into actual money soon enough and it's dropped a third of its value.

Oh well. I wasn't counting on that money for anything in particular, which is why I wasn't in a rush to move it.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

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LUNA is down to $0.003.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

pr0ner wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 8:05 pm LUNA is down to $0.003.
…and the /r/terraluna sub-Reddit now includes links posted front and centre for various national suicide prevention helplines after concerns like this emerged:



As we learned in 2008, problems on Wall Street can rapidly spread to Main Street. So, here's hoping regulators are prepared to limit damage from spreading too far into the financial system and broader economy…
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

This is what happens with the YOLO casino. Stimmy tendies were all fun and games when everyone was making money. Reality is setting in now. And reality doesn't give a shit about any of us.


I do hope that anyone feeling the pressure and/or pain from what is happening everywhere in the financial casinos is able to get through. It is not a failure of character to lose money when the deck is stacked against you.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by Holman »

El Guapo wrote: Wed May 25, 2011 12:18 pm This seems like the very definition of a speculation bubble. It seems like BitCoins aren't tied to anything, so their value derives solely (I gather) from people assigning them value and speculating that their value will increase in the future.

Assuming, as appears to be the case, that BitCoins are readily exchangeable into currency via Mt Gox and the like, isn't a run on BitCoins inevitable? Eventually the Warren Buffet of BitCoins is going to decide that they are overvalued and cash out en masse. That gets out, and others cash out for fear that they will be left holding worthless currency. That rush, in turn, makes the currency worthless.

To a degree this is true of any currency, but it's certainly different when it's backed by a loose agglomeration of people on the internet vs. the United States government.
11th anniversary of this prescient post.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 8:57 pm
El Guapo wrote: Wed May 25, 2011 12:18 pm This seems like the very definition of a speculation bubble. It seems like BitCoins aren't tied to anything, so their value derives solely (I gather) from people assigning them value and speculating that their value will increase in the future.

Assuming, as appears to be the case, that BitCoins are readily exchangeable into currency via Mt Gox and the like, isn't a run on BitCoins inevitable? Eventually the Warren Buffet of BitCoins is going to decide that they are overvalued and cash out en masse. That gets out, and others cash out for fear that they will be left holding worthless currency. That rush, in turn, makes the currency worthless.

To a degree this is true of any currency, but it's certainly different when it's backed by a loose agglomeration of people on the internet vs. the United States government.
11th anniversary of this prescient post.
FWIW despite recent runs on some cryptocurrencies, BTC is still flying pretty high and can fall 66% yet to reach 2020 levels which would still be multiples of the 2011 price. In any case, every time there is some market turbulence someone predicts the end of crypto. Maybe it'll happen this time but I sort of doubt it.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

malchior wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 9:15 pm
Holman wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 8:57 pm
El Guapo wrote: Wed May 25, 2011 12:18 pm This seems like the very definition of a speculation bubble. It seems like BitCoins aren't tied to anything, so their value derives solely (I gather) from people assigning them value and speculating that their value will increase in the future.

Assuming, as appears to be the case, that BitCoins are readily exchangeable into currency via Mt Gox and the like, isn't a run on BitCoins inevitable? Eventually the Warren Buffet of BitCoins is going to decide that they are overvalued and cash out en masse. That gets out, and others cash out for fear that they will be left holding worthless currency. That rush, in turn, makes the currency worthless.

To a degree this is true of any currency, but it's certainly different when it's backed by a loose agglomeration of people on the internet vs. the United States government.
11th anniversary of this prescient post.
FWIW despite recent runs on some cryptocurrencies, BTC is still flying pretty high and can fall 66% yet to reach 2020 levels which would still be multiples of the 2011 price. In any case, every time there is some market turbulence someone predicts the end of crypto. Maybe it'll happen this time but I sort of doubt it.
In May 2011, BTC was $30. It's $30,000 today.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by pr0ner »

Luna is now $0.00003.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

pr0ner wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:07 am Luna is now $0.00003.
I think they minted like 15B coins yesterday. No idea who is buying at that or any price. It's garbage.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by malchior »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:09 am
pr0ner wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:07 am Luna is now $0.00003.
I think they minted like 15B coins yesterday. No idea who is buying at that or any price. It's garbage.
Right - my super quick hot take is that it is minting at that rate because the algo is trying to maintain the UST $1 peg. It is in a negative feedback loop where UST falls below a dollar and LUNA spits out more coins. Anyone buying it is chasing a broken algo or funding someone's attack on the the peg.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by pr0ner »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:09 am
pr0ner wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:07 am Luna is now $0.00003.
I think they minted like 15B coins yesterday. No idea who is buying at that or any price. It's garbage.
Who knows. The whole situation is batshit.

There's also a rumor out there now that Terra's collapse was a result of BlackRock and Citadel manipulation, but both companies have denied it.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by malchior »

pr0ner wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:20 am
LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:09 am
pr0ner wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:07 am Luna is now $0.00003.
I think they minted like 15B coins yesterday. No idea who is buying at that or any price. It's garbage.
Who knows. The whole situation is batshit.

There's also a rumor out there now that Terra's collapse was a result of BlackRock and Citadel manipulation, but both companies have denied it.
I mean if I'm right it's a definite possibility. And of course they deny it. There is no regulatory requirement to tell the truth.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Candy from babies.

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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by pr0ner »

I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head.
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by LordMortis »

Wait. That's not satire?
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Re: Bitcoin: Censorship-Resistant Digital P2P Currency

Post by Blackhawk »

My bitcoin investment has dropped almost 30% since I bought it.

I'm down $3!
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