Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:33 pm

I'm very intrigued by Dark Souls, but years of experience have taught me that after the "ooh, shiny" wears off, I don't have the skill/patience to truly enjoy console fighting games. God of War, God of War 2, and Bayonetta each impressed the hell out of me for several hours, before falling out of favor because the combat was either too repetitive or beyond my ability to master.

On the other hand, I enjoy a good RPG dungeon crawl. But Dark Souls doesn't quite seem like it fits into either of these categories.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:24 pm

No, you will not.
If you dislike dying over and over and losing game currency when you die (potentially for good) then you will not like this game.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:28 pm

I hate console games and Demon's Souls was one of my favorite games of all times. It is an engrossing, smart, punishing dungeon crawl. The best way to play the game is to imagine yourself in the game, wearing massive plate armor, walking through a world of extreme danger. If you think something is about to kill you, it probably will. If you play smart, you will be fine. This is a dark, thinking man's RPG, not for the button mashing masses.

The punishments are tough, but the reward is why I play games. There is really very little out there that compares to this game which is why it has such a hardcore cult following.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:33 am

AWS260 wrote:I'm very intrigued by Dark Souls, but years of experience have taught me that after the "ooh, shiny" wears off, I don't have the skill/patience to truly enjoy console fighting games. God of War, God of War 2, and Bayonetta each impressed the hell out of me for several hours, before falling out of favor because the combat was either too repetitive or beyond my ability to master.

On the other hand, I enjoy a good RPG dungeon crawl. But Dark Souls doesn't quite seem like it fits into either of these categories.

It isn't a console fighting game. It has nothing at all in common with GoW, GoW2, or Bayonetta.

Discussing Demon's Souls here (the predecessor). The fighting is visceral and timing matters. But there are little in the way of combos and whatnot. Oh, there's like a three swing thing and you can mix light/heavy attacks. But the reasons for these thing is not to spam visually satisfying combos of wide ranging effectiveness. Every action has weight, every action has a purpose. The pacing here is far more deliberate than what you see in those types of games. It's still an action game, mind, but a deliberate one.

Why would you fight with a spear versus a sword? Well, yes, stats and such. But the spear thrusts (and the heavy attack is sort of this lunge move). When fighting in cramped quarters, that matters. Because strikes lose effectiveness if they scrape on walls, see? *that* is the kind of fighting game Demon's Souls was, and Dark Souls presumably will be. You judge weapons and shields not just on stats but how they handle, and what kind of tactical options they bring to the table. And whether you are comfortable employing those options.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:37 am

Demon's Souls is one of the only games that made me *incredibly* aware of which hand was my sword hand.

In the tutorial for the game, I had just found a bastard sword, and was wielding it in my right hand. Enemy came up, I tried to swing but only hit the wall (which was to my right).

Said enemy commences to charge me and knock me off a cliff to my death.

-----------------------------

Now, I want to give the Demon's Souls spiel that I give all of my friends, since the game isn't for everyone. This is a game that punishes every mistake you make to the nth degree, but it is never unfair about it. You must have patience and a strong drive to finish the game. I remember that the first time I tried to just beat the tutorial it took me nearly 7 hours and many, many deaths. Now, with any new character I can be through in 20-30 minutes and never die once. That is the kind of patience and drive you must have to play this series.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:44 pm

Ahem, Chris recommend Demon Souls to me once and when I finally got around to playing it discovered that it was the antithesis of fun and pretty much everything I hated about action/RPG summed up in one game. After dying like 30 times in what I assume was still the tutorial with no progress whatsoever I decided the game wasn’t for me. To be fair I thought the ghost mechanic of seeing how other (multiplayer) players had died was pretty cool and the combat was interesting but there was nothing to make me want to keep playing.

I think the game is ultimately for people who don’t like stories, care little for setting, dislike character interaction, like the color brown and LOVE getting punched in the face, repeatedly. Your experience may vary.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:46 pm

Face punching: an illustrated example.

1. Demon's souls kills you in the tutorial. I mean, it's *possible* you'll survive. But you won't. This is the opening tutorial bit for a key game mechanic: soul form versus "alive". It also introduces you to another important mechanic: getting used to failing. You will do this in Demon's Souls over and over.

2. Killing enemies and such gives you souls. At the start of the game you can spend these oon: repairing EQ. You will eventually spend it on other stuff at the merchant, and more importantly character advancement. But you can't spend it on advancement at first.

What happens if you die? In Human form you revert to spirit. Either way, you lose all carried souls. You can retrieve them via a corpse run (note: you do not drop gear), but this isn't always feasible. Indeed, it frequently is not.

3. To answer your question: you must kill the 1-1 boss (Phalanx) to unlock the right to meaningfully spend souls. 1-1 is a microcosm of demon's souls. You must unlock a big gate leading to the boss. How do you get there? By traveling up, over, around, through, under, behind, and beyond the large castle/gate house that houses Phalanx. If you are exceptionally well repeared (you read up a lot) and a ninja, you will die 7 or so times doing this. That's skipping most of the so called death traps, which aren't that bad on 1-1 (so not a microcosm there). You'll probably fumble the dragon straifing run at least once though (though if you're well read, you'll be largely naked and relying on a shield). No0te that there are 3 shortcuts you want to unlock along the way, but they're not exactly out of the way (well, the first sort of is). This game loves to have you unlock short cuts.

4. No, Phalanx isn't exactly easy. He isn;t exactly hard. Oh, you won on the second try? Congrats, go do some upgrading FINALLY.

5. Rinse and repeat for 1-2 through 6-4 or whatever. Except (1) there are many instant death traps and slightly platformy bits to fuck you (2) even harder enemies (3) insane bosses you probably can't possibly beat on the first try (4) HAVE FUN IN 2-2 LOLOL (5) Those skeleton things on 4-1? Nah, they're not *too* bad LOL JK nice death at least your corpse is near the enterance, you'll get used to them too. Stop blocking even though we told you to learn to love blocking (6) Trust us, stop trying to fight the fucking mind flayers, just run by them (7) I forgot what 7 was for. Etc, etc, etc.

The game gives you coping mechanisms. There's an EXCEPTIONAL shield on 1-1 if you can find it. EXCEPTIONAL. There's a *really* useful sword on 2-2 hidden somewhere (note, even if you die mid mission everything you pick up you keep!). Can't beat a boss? In soul form get to where it is. Look around for a blue marker- that's someone saying "hi, please help me beat this boss". Go help - you'll get rewarded and get a better understanding of *how* to beat the boss. Then you can do the same thing (past a certain point in the game, but it's early on), to summon people to help *you* get stuff (note, you can summon them anywhere but it's mostly reserved for bosses).

The game is Perfectly Japanese. In that I mean it's mechanics are completely fucking opaque and you need to play with a guide in hand (so to speak). It's impossible to unearth all the secrets otherwise and there are all sorts of bizzare mechanics at work undr the hood you don't know about.

The beginning broke a lot of people. Becuase you progress. . . and lose it all . Progress and lose it all. Progress and lose it all. *maybe* you find a new weapon which helps, but not too much as you can't yet upgrade them (and this is key, but you need to know *what* to upgrade to. Poor spending will break your spirit). And so you finally get to another shortcut and that helps but you kill SO MUCH SHIT and get SO LITTLE out of it. But you find the thief ring and that helps. And you get a spear that has amazing potential and that helps. An d you finally go find the way to get that shield and that helps but you've lost 100k in souls at this point and you finally beat Phalanx and the game really begins (not to mention the true pain).

It's an odd game. It's an extraordinarily atmospheric game though it doesn't tell a coherent story really (this doesn't bother me; most of the stories games present are complete and utter shit and I wish they'd shut the fuck up already). It's difficult but it allows you time to master (you can replay any level over and over but you can't farm bosses in your own game. You can still go help othres and reap soul rewards), and then keeps spiking in difficulty just when you thought you had crested the final hill (lol forgot the gargoyels. Whoops, you fell off a ledge fighting one AGAIN? Hah, you card).

If you love gaming as a hobbyist does, it's a game you want to experience once. Dark Souls may prove to be a worthy substitute. And possibly a more forgiving one.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:12 pm

If you love gaming as a hobbyist does, it's a game you want to experience once. Dark Souls may prove to be a worthy substitute. And possibly a more forgiving one.

Early reports are saying better mechanics and design, but it's actually harder in many ways.

Personally, I suspect that it could end up being a Day 1 purchase for me.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:46 pm

ChrisGrenard wrote:
Early reports are saying better mechanics and design, but it's actually harder in many ways.

I could easily see that. Combat on 1-1, e.g., isn't hard once you get the hang of it and especially if you get that shield. It does take some variable length of time to get the hang of it, of course (other levels get more tricksy, but even there most of it is something you adjust to fairly quickly if you haven't wandered off).

The game still wasn't forgiving when you were on your steadiest ground, and now they've removed grass from the game (the healing potions for the uninitiated). Personally I will be very happy if they make things like the world tendency not be crazypants. Mechanics like that need to be smooth and easy to pick up and understand. You can make them easy to manipulate (like not jumping through the soul form/live form/boss killing hoops) while making them difficult to manipulate (you can't just walk up tp a wall and turn a dial in other words).

I will be curious to see if mobility doesn't dominate the early game. One of the crutches Demon's Soul provided is that Shield Blocking is wickedly effective (even without a great shield). It's not always the best defense but you can lean on it for awhile. If blocking becomes something that isn't as easy, yeah the game gets harder.

Personally, I suspect that it could end up being a Day 1 purchase for me.

I 360 pre-ordered. Not the collectors edition because I don't care about that stuff typically (and there was a kerfuffle about different regions getting switched to download versions of different items in the CE).

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:01 pm

IGN was having a 24 hours Dark Soul's playathon. Several of the developers were also present and playing the game. I watched one of the devs die 6 times to a boss. I do not think I'll be purchasing this one.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:41 pm

Cortilian wrote:IGN was having a 24 hours Dark Soul's playathon. Several of the developers were also present and playing the game. I watched one of the devs die 6 times to a boss. I do not think I'll be purchasing this one.

Only 6 times?

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:55 am

Demon Souls is EASILY my top game ever. It's a ton of trial and error, but I never found the game unfair. Once you get used to how the game operates it's really fun to figure out the shortcuts and the moves to use on each enemy. I don't have the cash to grab the new one yet, but I'll be buying it for sure. The new one is supposed to be even harder which doesn't bother me, but I could see people just not digging it at all.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:50 am

Here's an excerpt from the IGN review.

There are times, though, when Dark Souls crosses the line from thrillingly challenging to straightforwardly sadistic. There are frog-like sewer-dwelling creatures that can Curse you with their attacks, instantly reducing your health bar to half its former size; the only way to get cured is to visit a healer hidden deep within a dangerous ghost-populated area that's a long, long journey away (or to buy an item from a vendor, if you've got enough souls).

Making your way through Dark Souls' death-trap world with half a health bar is hard enough, but the Curse effect stacks – so if you get caught again, you'll be down to a quarter of a health bar. A third time, you'll be down to an eighth. I know one Dark Souls player who lost something like 10 hours trying to make it to a healer when everything in the world could kill him with one hit. There's punishing, and then there's unfair.

One of the mid-game bosses, meanwhile, emits corrosive bile that swiftly degrades your equipment if you get stuck in its flow, potentially leaving you standing naked in front of a hideous dragon with a broken sword. There's no way to repair weapons and armor once they've been completely destroyed, so it's possible to lose all your best gear in this battle.

I know I have a different mindset than most, but I simply cannot comprehend how something like this would be considered fun. It's baffling to me that that there are so many people clamoring to experience that. To each their own, I suppose, but this is definitely a game that is not for me.

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:42 pm

Yeah, it's reviews/comments like that one which make me hesitant to spend money on this game.

Octavious wrote:Demon Souls is EASILY my top game ever

But then it's comments like that one which make me think I'm going to miss something special if I don't.

I'm torn. Hopefully there will be a demo. Ninja Gaiden was ball-breakingly hard, but it doesn't sound nearly as hard as DS.

e1123 · Post by **e1123** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:00 pm

Demon's Souls is my favorite PS3 game. I haven't beaten it yet, but I'm chipping my way through. It can be very frustrating, though. The character progression and reward system is great. My level 34 knight can easily kill opponents that could two-hit me earlier. I'm glad that the online system is more important in the new one because it's kind of an annoyance in Demon's Souls, along with tendency.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:26 pm

Inverarity wrote:Yeah, it's reviews/comments like that one which make me hesitant to spend money on this game.

Octavious wrote:Demon Souls is EASILY my top game ever
But then it's comments like that one which make me think I'm going to miss something special if I don't.

You will be missing something. Like others have said, it's hard but not unfair. Some of that quote posted don't sound like anything I saw in Demon's Souls so it could be from a Nightmare mode or something like that.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:48 pm

Skinypupy wrote:Here's an excerpt from the IGN review.

There are times, though, when Dark Souls crosses the line from thrillingly challenging to straightforwardly sadistic. There are frog-like sewer-dwelling creatures that can Curse you with their attacks, instantly reducing your health bar to half its former size; the only way to get cured is to visit a healer hidden deep within a dangerous ghost-populated area that's a long, long journey away (or to buy an item from a vendor, if you've got enough souls).

Making your way through Dark Souls' death-trap world with half a health bar is hard enough, but the Curse effect stacks – so if you get caught again, you'll be down to a quarter of a health bar. A third time, you'll be down to an eighth. I know one Dark Souls player who lost something like 10 hours trying to make it to a healer when everything in the world could kill him with one hit. There's punishing, and then there's unfair.

One of the mid-game bosses, meanwhile, emits corrosive bile that swiftly degrades your equipment if you get stuck in its flow, potentially leaving you standing naked in front of a hideous dragon with a broken sword. There's no way to repair weapons and armor once they've been completely destroyed, so it's possible to lose all your best gear in this battle.
I know I have a different mindset than most, but I simply cannot comprehend how something like this would be considered fun. It's baffling to me that that there are so many people clamoring to experience that. To each their own, I suppose, but this is definitely a game that is not for me.

That review is making me wish today was Tuesday. I am *really* looking forward to this game now, and I'm extremely happy I put down a preorder on Amazon.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:49 pm

Inverarity wrote:Yeah, it's reviews/comments like that one which make me hesitant to spend money on this game.

Octavious wrote:Demon Souls is EASILY my top game ever
But then it's comments like that one which make me think I'm going to miss something special if I don't.

I'm torn. Hopefully there will be a demo. Ninja Gaiden was ball-breakingly hard, but it doesn't sound nearly as hard as DS.

Different kind of hard. Ninja Gaiden was about learning combos and how to be really fast at playing the game.

Demon's Souls is about careful exploration, precise attacks and paying attention to every detail of your environment.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:04 pm

ChrisGrenard wrote:
That review is making me wish today was Tuesday. I am *really* looking forward to this game now, and I'm extremely happy I put down a preorder on Amazon.

Masochist.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:09 pm

ChrisGrenard wrote:
Inverarity wrote:Yeah, it's reviews/comments like that one which make me hesitant to spend money on this game.

Octavious wrote:Demon Souls is EASILY my top game ever
But then it's comments like that one which make me think I'm going to miss something special if I don't.

I'm torn. Hopefully there will be a demo. Ninja Gaiden was ball-breakingly hard, but it doesn't sound nearly as hard as DS.
Different kind of hard. Ninja Gaiden was about learning combos and how to be really fast at playing the game.

Demon's Souls is about careful exploration, precise attacks and paying attention to every detail of your environment.

I haven't watched a lot of videos of Dark Souls, but the one I did watch showed off a level that punished all of the things you just mentioned. It forced you into encounters that were too tough for your level, requiring you to flee into large groups of enemies. This forces you to deal with them quickly before your pursuers can catch up. It looked way too hectic, and not at all like the parts of Demon's Souls that appealed to me the most (such as the parts you mention). The only respite was when the player got to a campfire. Before that, stopping would have meant his death.

There's this voice in the back of my head that tells me that the developers of Demon's Souls and Dark Souls don't really know why the first game was so successful and are now just winging it, trying to take the reviews and player comments at face value without understanding their substance. The worst part is that they get away with it too, because poor design decisions are lauded as "hardcore" and "challenging" when they should be called "frustrating". Attempts to discuss the flaws of the first game are often, if not usually, met with disdainful sneers and elitist "you're just not good enough" attitudes, and that's just not healthy for the game or the community. I'm not saying that Dark Souls is going to be a bad game, far from it. It's probably going to be damned good, but it'll have those infuriatingly poorly designed parts that reinforce the feeling that it's all just pure, random luck on the developers' parts.

For the record, the parts of Demon's Souls that I consider poorly designed (cue the disdainful sneers) are the world/hero tendencies, the over-reliance on eventual FAQs (again, world tendency is a good example of this. Who the heck would have understood that system without FAQs? It's barely even decipherable with them.) and too many opportunities to permanently lose important resources (lizards mostly) because the game expects you to use FAQs to even know they're there and that they actually do something. I'm halfway through the game and feel no motivation to continue simply because the game has locked me out of important parts of my character progression through no fault of my own.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:19 pm

Totally get where you're coming from in regards to having to check FAQs and missing out on stuff, but I actually adored that part of it. There were so many hidden things that you couldn't possibly get them all in the first play through and I think that was the point.

Watched the gameplay on the long giant bomb feed and I don't see it deviated all that much from the original. Still seems like there's plenty of room to take a breather and try and figure out what to do next... Added bonus that it's on the 360 now since I can hook that up to my computer monitor and play all I want.

Canuck · Post by **Canuck** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:19 am

Inverarity wrote:Yeah, it's reviews/comments like that one which make me hesitant to spend money on this game.

Octavious wrote:Demon Souls is EASILY my top game ever
But then it's comments like that one which make me think I'm going to miss something special if I don't.

I'm torn. Hopefully there will be a demo. Ninja Gaiden was ball-breakingly hard, but it doesn't sound nearly as hard as DS.

There was never a demo for the PS3-probably because people would have played the game for ten minutes and said, "holy shit this game is for crazy people!" and not bought it. I'm only sort of joking.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:06 am

Immersive. That is the word I have been searching for. It is probably one of the most immersive games I've played and I've been playing since the early 80s. That was the major draw for me.

Peacedog · Post by **Peacedog** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:40 pm

The IGN review is misleading. There's some youtube video refuting it but. . .

1. Items can be repaired from zero durability. This guy proved it in the video.

2. Some items cannot be repaired ("crystal weapons" was mentioned - sold by a vendor in the area the guy was playing in).

3. I'll be curious to see the cost of the curse removing item. I'm not freaked out by the IGN commentary here becuase I have to see it in context.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:58 pm

Looks like the verdict is coming in. According to GameRankings, the current average ranking is 89.69% after 8 reviews (PS3 version), while Metacritic has it at 89 with 14 reviews (also PS3).

A couple of standouts from Metacritic:

GameSpot: "Dark Souls is an extraordinary role-playing game that transports you to an awesome and menacing world you may never forget." - 95/100
Joystiq: "The cycle of Dark Souls is essentially the same: Hours of diligent, often frustrating work followed by a surprising, often spectacular payoff." - 90/100
Edge Magazine: "Dark Souls beckons the masochistic with its chilly indifference. If you steel your nerves and persevere, the loot you'll uncover is an adventure so exquisitely morose and far-ranging that it will tug at your mind insistently during the hours you spend apart." - 90/100
Gamereactor Sweden: "Hard is hard. Though greatly satisfying at times, Dark Souls consists of many hours of pure frustration." - 70/100

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:15 pm

TiLT wrote: Gamereactor Sweden: "Hard is hard. Though greatly satisfying at times, Dark Souls consists of many hours of pure frustration." - 70/100

Swedes don't want to work hard.

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:22 pm

Preorder bonus peripherals announced!!!!

Gonna be awesome....

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:42 pm

TiLT wrote:Gamereactor Sweden: "Hard is hard. Though greatly satisfying at times, Dark Souls consists of many hours of pure frustration." - 70/100

"Many hours" of gaming for me would be the (maybe) 3-4 per week I can manage to actually scratch out. I'd rather not spend them wanting to put my controller through the screen, thanks.

Covenant72 · Post by **Covenant72** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:14 pm

Holy crap, pbf is making strips again??!!

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:03 pm

Covenant72 wrote:Holy crap, pbf is making strips again??!!

That was my thought too. Screw Dark Souls, I want more Perry Bible Fellowship!

Inverarity · Post by **Inverarity** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:11 pm

Still on the fence. I want to discuss the IGN review. Regarding multiplayer, the review states

As you wander the parapets of the Undead Burg, you'll occasionally hear the tolling of the bell at the top of the gargoyle tower, signifying someone else's triumph over a boss. You'll feel spurred on to success yourself, reassured that it's not impossible, or you'll smile at the memory of your own victory if you're already further on. The shadows of other players move through the world, showing you snatches of someone else's game. Bloodstains splatter across the flagstones where people have died, replaying the final seconds of their life when you touch them.

Which really sounds awesome. Really awesome. Genius, in fact. I want to experience that. And then....

It is impossible to overstate how crucial online play is to the Dark Souls experience. Without it, it's half a game (and about four times as difficult, too, which is really not what you want from a game that's already difficult enough to sap your will to live). Multiplayer is your get-out clause, the thing that stops Dark Souls from ever being straightforwardly impossible, no matter what your skill level. There are points in the game where you actually need help

Seriously? It practically sounds like I can't complete the game without help from online. Is that a fair thing to assume? In which case, is that more incentive to by it now, so we're all playing together (note: the review is for the PS3; I'd be playing it on the 360).

So very, very torn about this game. I definitely don't want to smash my controller, but I'm a smash-the-controller kind of guy. Does it feel like the game (err, the previous game) is being cheap or unfair when it kills you all these countless times, or is it more of a feeling of "damn, this is f'ing hard". I know you guys said "fair" in your earlier posts, but I want to hear it again.

Really?

ChrisGrenard · Post by **ChrisGrenard** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:47 pm

Inverarity wrote:Still on the fence. I want to discuss the IGN review. Regarding multiplayer, the review states

As you wander the parapets of the Undead Burg, you'll occasionally hear the tolling of the bell at the top of the gargoyle tower, signifying someone else's triumph over a boss. You'll feel spurred on to success yourself, reassured that it's not impossible, or you'll smile at the memory of your own victory if you're already further on. The shadows of other players move through the world, showing you snatches of someone else's game. Bloodstains splatter across the flagstones where people have died, replaying the final seconds of their life when you touch them.
Which really sounds awesome. Really awesome. Genius, in fact. I want to experience that. And then....

It is impossible to overstate how crucial online play is to the Dark Souls experience. Without it, it's half a game (and about four times as difficult, too, which is really not what you want from a game that's already difficult enough to sap your will to live). Multiplayer is your get-out clause, the thing that stops Dark Souls from ever being straightforwardly impossible, no matter what your skill level. There are points in the game where you actually need help
Seriously? It practically sounds like I can't complete the game without help from online. Is that a fair thing to assume? In which case, is that more incentive to by it now, so we're all playing together (note: the review is for the PS3; I'd be playing it on the 360).

So very, very torn about this game. I definitely don't want to smash my controller, but I'm a smash-the-controller kind of guy. Does it feel like the game (err, the previous game) is being cheap or unfair when it kills you all these countless times, or is it more of a feeling of "damn, this is f'ing hard". I know you guys said "fair" in your earlier posts, but I want to hear it again. Really?

I played Demon's Souls about a year after release and still had pretty good luck finding people to play with.

And yes, I'm sure the multiplayer component will be pretty much required.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:15 pm

I never played online with anyone, but the online component helped in terms of hints and assistance. The occasional invasion was fun as well. My favorite games are slow TBS, but DS just does something right that brings out the old school gamer in me.

Buatha · Post by **Buatha** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:41 pm

Well, crap, then I guess I'm screwed with Demon's Souls. I mean, is it possible to truly "solo" the game if they've cut off the servers? I'm the guy that gets maybe Friday night to play uninterrupted, so it's been on the to-play list, but ho!, it's 2011! Where did the time go?!

MonkeyFinger · Post by **MonkeyFinger** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:55 am

Buatha wrote:Well, crap, then I guess I'm screwed with Demon's Souls. I mean, is it possible to truly "solo" the game if they've cut off the servers? I'm the guy that gets maybe Friday night to play uninterrupted, so it's been on the to-play list, but ho!, it's 2011! Where did the time go?!

Server support extended until sometime in 2012.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:04 am

Anyone telling you that you need to play MP to get through Demon's Souls is a big fat liar. It does improve the experience though because of the way other people's games are integrated into yours, and vice-versa. Dark Souls, as well as Demon's Souls, was designed so that the MP features would in no way impair the possibility of playing through the game offline.

Covenant72 · Post by **Covenant72** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:43 pm

Just finished my first hour or so and WOW, I can already tell I'm going to love this. In my first hour, I managed to get through the "tutorial" section which gets you up to speed on the controls and combat, and lets you fight your first boss. Died a few times learning the controls, but it was always my own fault (kept forgetting to use the lock on feature). Still got a ways to go before I feel comfortable, but I'm on my way.

1) Exploration is fun and looks to pay off so far
2) I love the user comments and occationally seeing other players ghosts. Really makes you feel like we are all in this together.
3) Controls are TIGHT.

I will hold off on any difficulty comments until I get more into the game, but so far every death has been a result of me getting used to controls and was not repeated. Even with my weak ass skills (my lack of dexterity means it takes me longer to get used to controls), I managed to kill the first boss on my 2nd try. Better games will likely blow through the entire tutorial without a single death.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:51 pm

At least in Demon Souls the actual combat wasn't terribly difficult. It's much more of a thinking mans game where you have to plan out what you're going to do next and make sure you have the right equipment for the job. Spear and shield in the first game was easily the easiest way to play the game. You could hide behind the shield and still attack. I mixed it up between that and a curved sword that caused bleeding.

As for MP being required for the first game. It's totally not required, but I think you really miss out on some of the cool things that it offered. Seeing the "ghosts" of the other players running around and all the hints of the floor really add a charm to the game that I haven't seen replicated anywhere else.

Now if that darn job I was hoping to get would call me I'd run out and grab this....

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:18 am

There's only one way to definitively answer the question in the thread title, so I took the plunge. So far, so good. And so weird -- this is a far cry from other third-person brawlers that I've played. One of the Penny-Arcade guys posted that Dark Souls feels like Zork, and I think he nailed it -- a desolate, deadly, and strangely compelling world.

I haven't made it very far at all, so I haven't hit any really frustrating/difficult points yet, although the control scheme is proving difficult to get used to. I have no idea how I'll feel about the game a week from now.

Jag · Post by **Jag** » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:49 am

Yay! I promise you that the control scheme will ultimately click, you just need to die alot before you get there.

AWS260 wrote: a desolate, deadly, and strangely compelling world.

Well, it is called DARK Souls.