Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

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TiLT
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

ChrisGrenard wrote:It's the most powerful weapon in the game for players with low stats.
Not true. There are plenty of weapons that are way better than the Drake Sword with low stats, but you're not going to run into them in the early game. The Drake Sword is only useful because you find it so early. If you didn't, it'd be completely uninteresting for most builds. Having said that, the definition of which weapons are better than others is going to vary way more in this game than in other RPGs. The ideal weapon depends completely on your playstyle. Do you like fast weapons? Do you prefer to maximize the damage of each swing? Are you aiming to take down large numbers of enemies with every attack? Do you prefer slashing or thrusting? Do you want to hide behind a shield, or do you want to be more offensive? Is your character strong or weak? Would you like to keep distance between you and your enemy, or do you prefer to get up close and personal? There's a large amount of factors like these, and there's no answer that is more correct than others, within a certain margin of course.

As for myself, I ditched the Drake Sword before I even entered Blighttown. I'm now using a Claymore +8, which with my current stats has an attack stat 33 points better than the Drake Sword and has a greater reach as well.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by msduncan »

Inverarity wrote:I've just reached Sens Fortress and I think the Drake Sword has served its usefulness. I had been using it only as a boss sword until I went to Blighttown, when it became my must-use weapon. Now I'm trying to get enough points into strength to wield the Black Knight's Greatsword.

I don't think I did a great job with point placement, having put too many to Vitality. Right now I"m like soul level 38 or 39 overall, my strength is 27, my endurance is 25, my Dex is 17 and all other stats (besides Vitality) are at their default, bandit-level. Which means I have no slots for magic. And no intelligence, but that would be obvious for anyone reading my posts these past 12 years.


Speaking of Blighttown, I was incredibly happy to get out of there. So much so that I skipped....
Spoiler:
The Great Hollow and The Demon Ruins. Instead I returned to the surface via the Valley of the Drakes and went straight to Sens Fortress. Good move? Or should I have completed the Hollow? I absolutely hate being cursed and wanted to avoid the damn Basiliks once I saw them there
What would you have done differently with the points?

I'm a pyro, and level 21. So far I've dumped all my points into STR, some into DEX, and a couple into Vitality. Should I place a few into Attunement and INT before it gets too expensive?
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Covenant72 »

Pretty sure INT is useless for a pyro unless you plan on moving into sorcerer spells. Attunement controls howmany spells youc an have equipped at a time. From what I understand, 3 (maybe 4) slots is good for awhile.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by msduncan »

Covenant72 wrote:Pretty sure INT is useless for a pyro unless you plan on moving into sorcerer spells. Attunement controls howmany spells youc an have equipped at a time. From what I understand, 3 (maybe 4) slots is good for awhile.
So I really should do a couple points to Attunement and the rest in STR, DEX, and a few in Vitality and Stamina here and there?
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Inverarity »

msduncan wrote:What would you have done differently with the points?

I'm a pyro, and level 21.
I put too many into Vitality and like Tilt said a few pages back, it's not about how well you take the hit, it's about not getting at all. So a high vitality doesn't help as much as other stats...at least early on. Right now my attunement is 8, so I have no slots whatsoever. I should have put two points to it, at least, so I could use Pyro as a ranged attack.

And a couple more points into Strength would get me closer to the necessary 32 that many of the weapons I want to use seem to require.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Covenant72 »

VIT and END bump up HP and stamina respectively. END also bumps up how much weight you can have equipped. As long as those aren't running out on you, and you have enough END to wear your gear and still be under 25% of burden (for max mobility) you should be set. For example, if your equipped gear totals 15 lbs (or whatever the unit is), you want at least 60 carry capacity. If you are a melee character, you can equip up to 50% burden. A tank can equip right up to the max.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

A subtle fact about stats in Dark Souls: They all seem to have diminishing returns (topping out around 50)... Except for Endurance, which has a linear progression from start to finish, both for equip weight and stamina. There may be linear effects in other stats as well (perhaps with the parameter bonuses), but I'm not aware of any.

In other words, if you plan to be effective (unless you plan to do a lot of PvP), don't increase any stats but Endurance above 50, even if they are your primary stats.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Covenant72 »

I think END stops giving stamina at 50 doesn't it? Past that it's just equip capacity.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

Covenant72 wrote:I think END stops giving stamina at 50 doesn't it? Past that it's just equip capacity.
You're right. It's still a linear progression up to there however, unlike things like Vitality and hit points.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by msduncan »

Oh God.

I accidentally attacked Domnhall of Zena.

Cost of Absolution? 45,000 souls.

:( :( :( :(

:cry: :cry: :cry:

This will cost every last soul I gained from defeating gaping dragon as well as my hero souls I have stored up. My GOD.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

On the other hand, it's really easy to farm souls in this game. Once you open up the correct area, you can regain those souls in way less than 30 minutes. Here's how:
Spoiler:
Save up 20000 souls. Doesn't matter how. This is a one-time investment. Go to the smith in Undead Parish and purchase the key he sells for 20000 souls. Head down the stairs into the Darkwood Forest (run past the demon if it's still alive) and keep moving forward. Eventually you will find a glowing door. Unlock it using your key, but don't enter yet. To the left of this door is a piece of wall you can destroy with your weapon, revealing a bonfire. Rest here. Now enter the door you just unlocked and run directly forward into the forest, along the cliff to the left. You'll see a fallen log to your right. Stay on its right side and make a wide turn, eventually returning to the stairs. You'll have 2-3 pretty powerful human enemies on your tail at this point, one of them casting spells. Run to the right of the stairs along the cliff, hiding as far into the corner as you can get (at the spot where you're standing before a lethal drop on one side and a wall on the other. Stay there. The guys following you will jump off the stairs above you, land on your head (or not) and fall to their deaths below. Each one gives you 2000 souls. There are 3 such enemies in the close vicinity. If you run in the right path, you'll get all three at the same time, netting you a grand total of 6000 souls for a minute's work. Return to the bonfire and repeat until satisfied.

I'd check Youtube to see the exact path you might want to run if you're uncertain, but it's not hard and it's possible to find all kinds of ways to do this. Just remember that one of the three guys is cloaked and hard to see, so try not to let go of the sprint button too often. ;)

If you should happen to die here, you'll still be very, very close to the bonfire and should be able to regain your lost souls with ease.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by ChrisGrenard »

TiLT wrote:On the other hand, it's really easy to farm souls in this game. Once you open up the correct area, you can regain those souls in way less than 30 minutes. Here's how:
Spoiler:
Save up 20000 souls. Doesn't matter how. This is a one-time investment. Go to the smith in Undead Parish and purchase the key he sells for 20000 souls. Head down the stairs into the Darkwood Forest (run past the demon if it's still alive) and keep moving forward. Eventually you will find a glowing door. Unlock it using your key, but don't enter yet. To the left of this door is a piece of wall you can destroy with your weapon, revealing a bonfire. Rest here. Now enter the door you just unlocked and run directly forward into the forest, along the cliff to the left. You'll see a fallen log to your right. Stay on its right side and make a wide turn, eventually returning to the stairs. You'll have 2-3 pretty powerful human enemies on your tail at this point, one of them casting spells. Run to the right of the stairs along the cliff, hiding as far into the corner as you can get (at the spot where you're standing before a lethal drop on one side and a wall on the other. Stay there. The guys following you will jump off the stairs above you, land on your head (or not) and fall to their deaths below. Each one gives you 2000 souls. There are 3 such enemies in the close vicinity. If you run in the right path, you'll get all three at the same time, netting you a grand total of 6000 souls for a minute's work. Return to the bonfire and repeat until satisfied.

I'd check Youtube to see the exact path you might want to run if you're uncertain, but it's not hard and it's possible to find all kinds of ways to do this. Just remember that one of the three guys is cloaked and hard to see, so try not to let go of the sprint button too often. ;)

If you should happen to die here, you'll still be very, very close to the bonfire and should be able to regain your lost souls with ease.
Brilliant, thanks for the tip!

Also, for what it's worth, these games just bring out the "New Character" in me all the time. Every time something horrible happens I just make a new person and go, "This time, I'll do it *better*." And I always do, that's the fun of it!
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by AWS260 »

Man, do I love the learning curve in this game. For every new area:

1. "Holy crap, might as well quit now"
2. "Maybe if I try it this way..."
3. "I just might make it through!"
4. "I'm so awesome. This is no problem"
5. And then my hubris makes me careless and I die stupidly.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by msduncan »

The little mishap with the vendor cost me 2 days of playtime as I farmed up to pay my debt to society.

Now I'm onward into Blighttown.

-- gaping dragon killed
-- giant rat killed
-- wall parasite thingie killed
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Covenant72 »

Good progress this weekend. Finally managed to take out fatboy slim at the end of Anor Londo and pick up the lordvessel. Moving on to the next phase of the quest, I got through tomb of giants and took out gravelord nito. I then got into the duke's archives and am sitting at the 3rd bonfire ready to enter some mist (new area or a boss? hmmm). My plan now is to finish the game and then move on to Batman for awhile. I'll likely miss some of the optional bosses, but I'll pick those up when we hit a gaming dry spell and I start a new toon or new game + with my current guy.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Jag »

I take back what I said about this game. Demon's Souls was great, this game is bullshit and I'm probably done.

I almost had the Gap Dragon down, fine, next shot should do it, I fall into a hole on the way, get cursed and lose 1/2 my HP permanently. Now I'm getting 1 shotted by everything, so I have to stop everything i'm doing to cure the curse. There is no way to farm 6000 souls with so little health, so I try to get to snuggly to trade an item. I run from the depths, back to firelink, watch the videos to figure out how to get there, finally get there and get 1 shotted by a zombie with a torch and I'm still saved to the depths. Fuck.this. I lost an entire night to a cheap bullshit tactic that does nothing to enhance gameplay.
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Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Covenant72 »

I think they are cheaper from the bell tower NPC
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

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Jag wrote:I take back what I said about this game. Demon's Souls was great, this game is bullshit and I'm probably done.

I almost had the Gap Dragon down, fine, next shot should do it, I fall into a hole on the way, get cursed and lose 1/2 my HP permanently. Now I'm getting 1 shotted by everything, so I have to stop everything i'm doing to cure the curse. There is no way to farm 6000 souls with so little health, so I try to get to snuggly to trade an item. I run from the depths, back to firelink, watch the videos to figure out how to get there, finally get there and get 1 shotted by a zombie with a torch and I'm still saved to the depths. Fuck.this. I lost an entire night to a cheap bullshit tactic that does nothing to enhance gameplay.
See, the problem here is that you weren't prepared. If you have to toss away everything you were doing to cure a status effect on a different map, you've done something wrong. You don't venture into the Depths without having the stuff you need to cure curses handy. Having half health is also far, far from being as bad as you say, as this game is way more about not being hit in the first place than being able to absorb damage.

It costs you 3000 souls at the bell tower to get the cure. The whole ordeal would have been much simpler for you if you had prepared, and now the game is punishing you for your mistake.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Jag »

TiLT wrote:The whole ordeal would have been much simpler for you if you had prepared, and now the game is punishing you for your mistake.
How the fuck was I supposed to know to buy curse cures at the Bell Tower? Even if I did, having 3k souls at that level is unreasonable when each mob drops like 30 in that area (hell the gargoyles only drop 750). Let the game punish someone else. I don't think i've ever actually ragequit a game, including DS. I'll probably pick it up again, but not for a very long time. Too many other good games coming out now.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

Jag wrote:
TiLT wrote:The whole ordeal would have been much simpler for you if you had prepared, and now the game is punishing you for your mistake.
How the fuck was I supposed to know to buy curse cures at the Bell Tower? Even if I did, having 3k souls at that level is unreasonable when each mob drops like 30. Let the game punish someone else. I don't think i've ever actually ragequit a game, including DS. I'll probably pick it up again, but not for a very long time. Too many other good games coming out now.
This may not be the answer you want, but you were supposed to know because other people were supposed to tell you. Dark Souls is a collective experience, and going at it without community input is dangerous and potentially frustrating. The game is designed so that players will help each other out with advice and learn the mechanics and secrets through cooperation, either in the game itself or on message boards and websites.

Also, your excuse about not having enough souls doesn't hold water when you realize that the merchant who sells the cure appears just after you've defeated the Bell Tower Gargoyles, and before you've had a chance to visit a bonfire (unless you for some strange reason turned back immediately upon their defeat). You'll have more than enough souls for at least one dose of the cure at that point, so if you didn't buy it, that's certainly your fault for taking a deliberate chance. I myself purchased one dose of the cure at my first opportunity, even though I've had no use for it, and even if I'd actually not end up using it (at least not right away) if I did get cursed (there are advantages to being cursed that may not be immediately apparent).

I don't see how you can complain about this and not Demon's Souls though. Dark Souls is much, much fairer than Demon's Souls ever was.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Jag »

I agree with what you are saying (except that Dark is more fair than Demon's), I'm just pissed and venting. I saw the curse cure at the vendor and decided against buying it because 3k at that point was still significant and I needed to level. The game did punish me for not doing my homework, but I think I realized that I don't feel like being punished primarily because I don't have the playtime to worry about it. I understand that is part of Dark Souls, which is why it's time to step away from the game and play My Pretty Pony online or something :D
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by msduncan »

Be thankful that you didn't accidentally attack a vendor. That mistake cost me several days of Soul Farming to come up with the 45,000 souls to get forgiveness.
Last edited by msduncan on Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

msduncan wrote:Be thankful that you didn't accidentally attack a vendor. That mistake costs me several days of Soul Farming to come up with the 45,000 souls to get forgiveness.
That's why I always turn to face in the opposite direction after initializing conversations with them. ;)
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

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TiLT wrote: This may not be the answer you want, but you were supposed to know because other people were supposed to tell you. Dark Souls is a collective experience, and going at it without community input is dangerous and potentially frustrating. The game is designed so that players will help each other out with advice and learn the mechanics and secrets through cooperation, either in the game itself or on message boards and websites.
I'm new to Demon/Dark Souls & I think this is the problem I must be having with the game. When I play any game, I'm a purist - I don't want to know anything about it...no hints, no spoilers, or anything like that. I always figured that the hints & spoilers take away from the game - part of the game is figuring out the "puzzles" being presented (hell, back when I played EQ, I NEVER read about any of the dungeons or mobs beforehand).

With that said, I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever finish Dark Souls. I've put 18 hours into it, am level 14, and am currently getting smacked around by the Capra Demon. I still haven't cast a single spell (started as a Wanderer), so it's obvious to me I'm missing a big chunk of the game (I'm not even sure where I'd get a spell...other than the faith-based ones in Firelink Shrine, which I'm not "faithful" enough to use yet). I'm afraid I'm so under-powered that the game will get increasingly impossible.

So, is the "collective experience" pretty much the only way to beat the game in a reasonable timeframe (say, 60 hours)? I've started poking around some of the wiki's, but I feel dirty doing it (although, it was VERY nice to figure out how to use that item to upgrade my flasks)...
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by ezmate »

BTW, I picked up the game based on the buzz here & on a few other sites I follow. I'm absolutely loving the game, but it is indeed a bitch...
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by ChrisGrenard »

So, is the "collective experience" pretty much the only way to beat the game in a reasonable timeframe (say, 60 hours)? I've started poking around some of the wiki's, but I feel dirty doing it (although, it was VERY nice to figure out how to use that item to upgrade my flasks)...
It's essential. Anyone who can beat the game on their own is some sort of OCD demigod.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Covenant72 »

The collective knowledge thing is actually built right into the game as a mechanic with the messages.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Jag »

You don't need magic to get up to and past Capra. Spoilers on the fight if you want:
Spoiler:
You must get the 2 dogs down fast. They will poison you and their attacks leave you vulnerable to the demon. You CAN block most of the Demon's attacks with your shield. The trick is to use the stairs to get away and drop down and circle strafe him. Block and dodge to avoid his attacks. Don't get greedy if your stam is low, back off and take your time. If you can do a plunging attack, you can do some good damage. Get the Drake Sword discussed in this thread which you can get without fighting. If you get behind him, switch to 2H to attack and re-equip shield when he is facing you.

Certain shields have higher levels of stability which lets you block stronger attacks before your guard breaks. Equip the shield with the highest number for this fight.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by ezmate »

Covenant72 wrote:The collective knowledge thing is actually built right into the game as a mechanic with the messages.
Well, I'd say the "messages" are quite a bit less helpful than a good wiki. Heck, this thread is, on the whole, more helpful than the messages.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

Jag wrote:You don't need magic to get up to and past Capra. Spoilers on the fight if you want:
Spoiler:
You must get the 2 dogs down fast. They will poison you and their attacks leave you vulnerable to the demon. You CAN block most of the Demon's attacks with your shield. The trick is to use the stairs to get away and drop down and circle strafe him. Block and dodge to avoid his attacks. Don't get greedy if your stam is low, back off and take your time. If you can do a plunging attack, you can do some good damage. Get the Drake Sword discussed in this thread which you can get without fighting. If you get behind him, switch to 2H to attack and re-equip shield when he is facing you.

Certain shields have higher levels of stability which lets you block stronger attacks before your guard breaks. Equip the shield with the highest number for this fight.
Good advice! If you want to actually win the fight however, you need to approach it in a different way (unless you're a very high level, which you aren't), as the advice above will get you hammered to a pulp over and over again, and you'll never understand why the strategy isn't working. ;) The tips above have some parts that are nice to know, but they skip the most important part of the strategy: The first 5 seconds of the fight. Also, forget about the shield. You'll need one, but only for desperate measures. If you do things correctly you won't really end up using it for this fight.

I'll just repost the guide to the Capra Demon that I posted two pages ago:
Spoiler:
Unequip stuff (ranged weapons and armor first) until you're at least below 50% equip weight, but ideally even below 25% (beat Havel the Rock at the bottom of the tower you left to fight the Taurus Demon if necessary. This gives you a ring that gives +25 max equip weight). This speeds you up considerably. At the start of the fight, run directly towards the capra demon, but veer right and roll (not jump, so you have to let go of the run button for a moment before hitting it again) by it on the right side at the very last moment (not too early, or he'll adjust and hit you anyway). Roll left, then roll again so that you get onto the stairs. Run like hell up to the arc above the doorway, leading directly away from the stairs. Once you're there, deal with the dogs if they're nearby. Once the capra demon gets more than halfway up the stairs, drop down and wait for him to follow you (deal with the dogs now if they're still alive). Once he drops down, give him a strike or two from your weapon and run up the stairs again. Keep the guy targeted and block as you move up the first half of the stairs, as he can still hit you. Move out onto the arc and wait for him to climb the stairs again. Jump down, and repeat the entire process until he dies. Do it this way and he won't even be able to attack you. The trick is getting rid of the dogs, and the best way to do that is to make a beeline directly for the arc right away. Once they're gone, you'll have plenty of time to calm down and drink estus flasks.

The trick here is the arc. Just climbing to the top of the stairs wasn't enough, as I discovered to my dismay. By standing on the arc you make it really hard (but not impossible, so stay alert!) for the capra demon to attack you without climbing the entire stairs first.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Inverarity »

The collective knowledge approach can be done with care. For example, I'm relying on assistance from others (folks in this thread, folks in the Qt3 thread, and folks in the GT thread), but I'm at least trying to get through it first, before I ask for help. In some cases, like the Capra Demon, I wasn't successful and followed Tilt's advice after failing miserably about 15 times. Other times, like the Gaping Dragon, I was able to win without assistance. It's an even better feeling when you make it through a section of the game without outside help, but you shouldn't feel bad about getting some help. We're all doing it, and to the point, that's kind of how you have to do it.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by ezmate »

Jag wrote:You don't need magic to get up to and past Capra. Spoilers on the fight if you want:
I'm actually wearing a decent poison-resist ring, so the dogs' poison isn't what's killing me. What IS killing me is the fact that they're pinning me in the corner while the demon rapes me! I've already figured that they have to die first...just have to execute my plan (I've only tried 2-3 times). Thanks for the help...
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by ezmate »

Inverarity wrote:The collective knowledge approach can be done with care. For example, I'm relying on assistance from others (folks in this thread, folks in the Qt3 thread, and folks in the GT thread), but I'm at least trying to get through it first, before I ask for help. In some cases, like the Capra Demon, I wasn't successful and followed Tilt's advice after failing miserably about 15 times. Other times, like the Gaping Dragon, I was able to win without assistance. It's an even better feeling when you make it through a section of the game without outside help, but you shouldn't feel bad about getting some help. We're all doing it, and to the point, that's kind of how you have to do it.
I kinda feel like a slug when I really can't contribute to the conversation. Obviously, there are people here happy to help.

I think I'll try this out....
Where I go, destruction will follow!
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Jag »

TiLT wrote:Good advice! If you want to actually win the fight however, you need to approach it in a different way (unless you're a very high level, which you aren't), as the advice above will get you hammered to a pulp over and over again, and you'll never understand why the strategy isn't working. ;)
Which is incidentally the same strat referenced in the Wiki and what I used to beat him at a low level, but go ahead and follow TiLTs since he obviously knows best.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by TiLT »

Jag wrote:
TiLT wrote:Good advice! If you want to actually win the fight however, you need to approach it in a different way (unless you're a very high level, which you aren't), as the advice above will get you hammered to a pulp over and over again, and you'll never understand why the strategy isn't working. ;)
Which is incidentally the same strat referenced in the Wiki and what I used to beat him at a low level, but go ahead and follow TiLTs since he obviously knows best.
I was about to use the argument that the wiki is user-edited and thus can be erroneous or just plain tactically bad, but in this case I can't recognize the overall strategy you recommend in the wiki entry.

The reasons I said you'd get squashed if you use your (written) strategy is because of the following:
Spoiler:
- Poison is a non-issue in this fight. Yes, the dogs do poison damage. No, it's not going to matter. If they survive long enough to poison you properly, then you've messed something up and wouldn't have won anyway. Also, poison damage is so slow-working that it wouldn't have made a big difference in any case.
- Mentioning that most attacks from the demon can be blocked with a shield is not the kind of advice people need for this fight, since the only attack of any consequence that it does is the leaping attack, and that one will penetrate almost any block, even at higher levels. Since this is also the first attack the capra demon does, and the only real challenge in this boss fight is to survive that initial onslaught, recommending a blocking strategy just confuses the issue.
- Recommending that he switches to a 2H-style if behind the boss is sensible, but it's also very risky for someone who's already struggling with this particular fight, and is likely to get them killed in the confusion. I'd say that's more of an advanced strategy for the second playthrough, but your mileage may vary.
- Again, the real challenge in this fight is the very beginning. You recommend that he should run for the stairs, which is exactly right. However, that's also all you say, which means he's going to run left at the beginning, directly towards the stairs. That is an almost certain death sentence (though you could always get miraculously lucky I suppose) since the dogs will pretty much always corner you before you can get to the stairs this way. It's important to point out that the player needs to go right until he has passed the capra demon.
Your advice isn't bad, strictly speaking, but it's not the right advice to give to someone who's struggling with this boss, in my opinion. It lacks the important details. I meant no offense.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Jag »

TiLT wrote:
Jag wrote:
TiLT wrote:Good advice! If you want to actually win the fight however, you need to approach it in a different way (unless you're a very high level, which you aren't), as the advice above will get you hammered to a pulp over and over again, and you'll never understand why the strategy isn't working. ;)
Which is incidentally the same strat referenced in the Wiki and what I used to beat him at a low level, but go ahead and follow TiLTs since he obviously knows best.
I was about to use the argument that the wiki is user-edited and thus can be erroneous or just plain tactically bad, but in this case I can't recognize the overall strategy you recommend in the wiki entry.

The reasons I said you'd get squashed if you use your (written) strategy is because of the following:
Spoiler:
- Poison is a non-issue in this fight. Yes, the dogs do poison damage. No, it's not going to matter. If they survive long enough to poison you properly, then you've messed something up and wouldn't have won anyway. Also, poison damage is so slow-working that it wouldn't have made a big difference in any case.
- Mentioning that most attacks from the demon can be blocked with a shield is not the kind of advice people need for this fight, since the only attack of any consequence that it does is the leaping attack, and that one will penetrate almost any block, even at higher levels. Since this is also the first attack the capra demon does, and the only real challenge in this boss fight is to survive that initial onslaught, recommending a blocking strategy just confuses the issue.
- Recommending that he switches to a 2H-style if behind the boss is sensible, but it's also very risky for someone who's already struggling with this particular fight, and is likely to get them killed in the confusion. I'd say that's more of an advanced strategy for the second playthrough, but your mileage may vary.
- Again, the real challenge in this fight is the very beginning. You recommend that he should run for the stairs, which is exactly right. However, that's also all you say, which means he's going to run left at the beginning, directly towards the stairs. That is an almost certain death sentence (though you could always get miraculously lucky I suppose) since the dogs will pretty much always corner you before you can get to the stairs this way. It's important to point out that the player needs to go right until he has passed the capra demon.
Your advice isn't bad, strictly speaking, but it's not the right advice to give to someone who's struggling with this boss, in my opinion. It lacks the important details. I meant no offense.
No offense take, since I recently killed the demon at a similar level, I can tell you why I disagree :D
Spoiler:
- Poison is a non-issue in this fight. Yes, the dogs do poison damage. No, it's not going to matter. If they survive long enough to poison you properly, then you've messed something up and wouldn't have won anyway. Also, poison damage is so slow-working that it wouldn't have made a big difference in any case.

--I just mentioned that they have poison, I didn't say it is a factor, it is something that is useful to know

- Mentioning that most attacks from the demon can be blocked with a shield is not the kind of advice people need for this fight, since the only attack of any consequence that it does is the leaping attack, and that one will penetrate almost any block, even at higher levels. Since this is also the first attack the capra demon does, and the only real challenge in this boss fight is to survive that initial onslaught, recommending a blocking strategy just confuses the issue.

--Shield blocking is actually very helpful. The Youtube videos of this fight show that you can block everything except his leaping attack. I did say most of his attacks. The leaping is the only one you can't block. I don't agree that surviving the initial onslaught is the only challenge. While it is the toughest part of the fight, the fight is still challenging after this and saying its not is unrealistic. I would not have won my fight without blocking some of the damage.

- Recommending that he switches to a 2H-style if behind the boss is sensible, but it's also very risky for someone who's already struggling with this particular fight, and is likely to get them killed in the confusion. I'd say that's more of an advanced strategy for the second playthrough, but your mileage may vary.

-- It is a risky strategy, but if they are comfortable with doing it, it can end the fight faster. Obviously they shouldn't use it if they can't switch to shield quickly since the shield is a key part of the strat.

- Again, the real challenge in this fight is the very beginning. You recommend that he should run for the stairs, which is exactly right. However, that's also all you say, which means he's going to run left at the beginning, directly towards the stairs. That is an almost certain death sentence (though you could always get miraculously lucky I suppose) since the dogs will pretty much always corner you before you can get to the stairs this way. It's important to point out that the player needs to go right until he has passed the capra demon.

--You are correct. I wasn't as detailed as I could have been since I figured he needs some challenge! :D
Why am I even bothering, since I already ragequit this game. I hate it! I love it!
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Inverarity »

ezmate wrote:I've only tried 2-3 times
Pfft, novice! Come back when you hit 25. ;)

And Jag, save some of your rage for blighttown....you'll need it.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Inverarity »

I finally got back into this game last night, after five days away from home. I feel like I need to pick a weapon to reinforce and improve my armor before I venture further into Sens Fortress. For weapons I'm considering, I have

- Drake Sword - old reliable, getting kind of boring. I still seem to do better with it against a wider range of foes than other weapons.
- Claymore (+1) - Love the way it looks and love the fact that it offers two types of attacks (strike and thrust), but it's a bit slow and I'm not good with the one-handed/two-handed/one-handed move.
- Battle Axe (+1) - My original weapon and it does a decent bit of damage, but the reach is terrible.
- Morning Star - Surprisingly okay weapon for something I picked up early on. Not sure about reach, but I like the animations and the fact that it's strictly one-handed.
- Halberd - I love that I can use it from behind my shield, and that there are two different types of attacks, but it doesn't seem to do well against bosses.
- Great Club - Love the animation and power, hate the speed.
- Dark Knight Greatsword - I am working up to 32 strength to use this weapon, mainly because I think it looks cool and it reminds me that I finally beat that guy. But it's rather large and I'm not sure if I will be good at using it.

Plus, there are others I have, like the Great Axe and some huge sword that starts with Z, a butcher's knife and a winged spear, but I'm not really into any of those, for one reason or another.

Any thoughts on a good choice for a high damage, high speed weapon that I can use one handed? I have 30 STR and 17 DEX, so that takes the Iaito out of the equation for now. Keep in mind that I have no real ranged attack (I carry a short bow +1; no spells as of yet). Whichever I choose i will get upgraded to +5 as soon as possible, I just don't want to waste shards until I'm sure which way I'm going.

For shields, I'm split between the Spider Shield (+2) and the Eagle Shield, which has better stability, but is much heavier.
As for armor, I had been using the Helm of the Wise along with the Crimson robes, to try and stay as light as possible (under 50% is my goal). The Crimson stuff is pretty good considering its weight. I picked up the Elite Knight Armor last night, however, and now I'm tempted to use it and deal with going above 50% encumberance. Plus, the Helm of the Wise just looks stupid.

In other words, I'm kind of all over the place with my design and I think it's time I commit to either a fast, dodgy melee character with some Pyro or a heavier, black knight greatsword-wielding tank. I'm on the fence.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Covenant72 »

There's a great spear inside Sen's Fortress that can carry you quite a ways through the game.
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Re: Dark Souls -- Will I Like It?

Post by Inverarity »

I think I've settled on the Halberd for now. I have it up to +6 and it does quite a bit of damage. Plus, its thrust attack is fast and its strong attack covers a wide area. I'm using it with the Eagle Shield and armor that keeps me under 50% encumbrance.

For some reason, I've decided to go back to Blighttown, to visit the area I skipped (Great Hallow) before I go into Sens Fortress. Already this is turning out to be a bad idea as I'm 4 deaths and 8000 + souls down, thanks to those FUCKING mosquitoes and a mishap with a ledge. This is all on my way to the bonfire at the bottom, mind you. Not having an active bonfire at Firelink is killing me.
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