The Hunger Games

[silverjon]

What you are saying is Christian Bale in The Machinist she is not.

[raydude]

Listen, I get that they eat better than others. They simply don't look any different from people living a somewhat normal life in North America. NA is not known for doing without.

I have no issue with how the actress looks. She just doesn't fit the physical profile of the character, that's all. And neither does Gale. This is not about her sex, it's about her appearance, and Gale's appearance as compared to their circumstances in the book.

Fair enough. On the scale of movie character appearance vs. book descriptions its not big enough a difference in my opinion. What gets me is when they change a character's race for the movie. Big case in point - Johnny Rico in Starship Troopers supposed to be Filipino.

[GreenGoo]

What you are saying is Christian Bale in The Machinist she is not.

That is correct sir. I wouldn't expect her to be either, although I could see most of the district being that way. I don't actually care about the rest of the district though as they are purely backdrop for the story.

[hepcat]

Plays with female characters during and before the time of Shakespeare would've pissed you guys off to no small degree.

[GreenGoo]

Fair enough. On the scale of movie character appearance vs. book descriptions its not big enough a difference in my opinion. What gets me is when they change a character's race for the movie. Big case in point - Johnny Rico in Starship Troopers supposed to be Filipino.

As CL pointed out, her face is quite full, which is a large part of it, since that part of her gets the most screen time, obviously. It didn't bug me at all, only that I noticed it. Gale on the other hand, I noticed, and it bugged me. Not just his size, but his seeming physical maturity, facial maturity. He just looks older and way better fed and exercised.

I actually expected Peeta to be a little bigger, given his strength, but I know from personal experience that you don't have to be big to be strong, so that didn't bother me either.

Here's an article responding to the "she's so fat, they shoulda called it the I couldn't eat another bite games".

uninteresting article

[raydude]

As CL pointed out, her face is quite full, which is a large part of it, since that part of her gets the most screen time, obviously. It didn't bug me at all, only that I noticed it.
uninteresting article

Be that as it may, the still pic of her in the article does not indicate to me that she eats a lot of twinkies. Also, I'm glad she doesn't look starving or thin. If movie receipts are anything to go by then the movie character and actress is going to be idolized by a lot of teen girls. The last thing we need is for a "hunger" fad to start whereby teen girls start looking as thin as some folks wanted the character to be.

[GreenGoo]

The last thing we need is for a "hunger" fad to start whereby teen girls start looking as thin as some folks wanted the character to be.

You're like 50 years too late, but I hear ya.

[Combustible Lemur]

Fair enough. On the scale of movie character appearance vs. book descriptions its not big enough a difference in my opinion. What gets me is when they change a character's race for the movie. Big case in point - Johnny Rico in Starship Troopers supposed to be Filipino.

As CL pointed out, her face is quite full, which is a large part of it, since that part of her gets the most screen time, obviously. It didn't bug me at all, only that I noticed it. Gale on the other hand, I noticed, and it bugged me. Not just his size, but his seeming physical maturity, facial maturity. He just looks older and way better fed and exercised.

I actually expected Peeta to be a little bigger, given his strength, but I know from personal experience that you don't have to be big to be strong, so that didn't bother me either.

Here's an article responding to the "she's so fat, they shoulda called it the I couldn't eat another bite games".

uninteresting article

Soooo, you wanted them to pick someone with a thinner bone structure?

The irony of people complaining that the bone structure of a characters face took them out of the story is odd.
Stupid hollywood, changing things from the book, they should have made sure the character had a dainty bone structure so she looked more frail, instead of casting a lithe athletic small woman who happens to have puffy cheeks.

[GreenGoo]

If I haven't made myself clear yet there is little chance more typing will help.

Silverjon's reference to the Machinist illustrates what someone who is not receiving enough calories might look like, although as has been said, she was able to achieve a greater than subsistence existence in the books so I don't expect her to be a stick.

[Odin]

The Internet. Where good things go to be torn to shreds out of sheer boredom.

[gameoverman]

The filmmakers didn't do a good job explaining the hunger thing. While there are many people living a starvation level existence in those districts, there is also a thriving black market. There are people who have figured out ways to do fairly well, as well as the oppressive government allows anyways. Gale and Peeta are two others who are doing well, through different approaches.

Katniss, due to her hunting ability, is one of the people who are thriving. She is not meant to look malnourished because she isn't. Her family is not one step away from starvation, even if she were to die in the games they'd still make it. Being able to hunt did save her family, and having the extra food and energy allowed her family to trade with others in the district.

It's really too bad the director couldn't figure out a way to show this.

[Combustible Lemur]

The filmmakers didn't do a good job explaining the hunger thing. While there are many people living a starvation level existence in those districts, there is also a thriving black market.

It's really too bad the director couldn't figure out a way to show this.

This I totally agree with.

Plus Jennifer Lawrence is hot.

[GreenGoo]

The Internet. Where good things go to be torn to shreds out of sheer boredom.

Torn to shreds?

[GreenGoo]

The filmmakers didn't do a good job explaining the hunger thing. While there are many people living a starvation level existence in those districts, there is also a thriving black market. There are people who have figured out ways to do fairly well, as well as the oppressive government allows anyways. Gale and Peeta are two others who are doing well, through different approaches.

Katniss, due to her hunting ability, is one of the people who are thriving. She is not meant to look malnourished because she isn't. Her family is not one step away from starvation, even if she were to die in the games they'd still make it. Being able to hunt did save her family, and having the extra food and energy allowed her family to trade with others in the district.

It's really too bad the director couldn't figure out a way to show this.

I'm not sure what books you were reading, but missing a day or two of hunting was a MAJOR hardship for her family. She begs Gale not to let her family starve when she goes to the games. You're right, she is doing better than the district, but not even close to as well as the people in the capital and yet physically there isn't much difference. If she is doing as well as you imply, there would be some sort of reference to her family being one of affluence within the district. She's just as poor as everyone else, her family just gets to eat more often.

I'm not saying she should be looking like a refugee from a concentration camp, but she shouldn't look soft. Not enough food and hard physical exertion combine to create a very lean look, thin but defined muscles.

I'm not sure why you guys are struggling with this. I have no problem with the actress's appearance outside of the fact that I don't feel her body type fit the role as defined in the book. She's certainly not fat, as I said before. Soft and squishy and round in places that tend to tighten up just from walking, let alone constant physical exertion, sure. Surviving by physical effort and ability to hunt not so much.

If it's a big deal for you guys, so be it. I'm not seeing anything that would change my mind. She's softer and squishier than the careers, who get all the best food and training. I thought she was supposed to have a hard life?

[Combustible Lemur]

The filmmakers didn't do a good job explaining the hunger thing. While there are many people living a starvation level existence in those districts, there is also a thriving black market. There are people who have figured out ways to do fairly well, as well as the oppressive government allows anyways. Gale and Peeta are two others who are doing well, through different approaches.

Katniss, due to her hunting ability, is one of the people who are thriving. She is not meant to look malnourished because she isn't. Her family is not one step away from starvation, even if she were to die in the games they'd still make it. Being able to hunt did save her family, and having the extra food and energy allowed her family to trade with others in the district.

It's really too bad the director couldn't figure out a way to show this.

I'm not sure what books you were reading, but missing a day or two of hunting was a MAJOR hardship for her family. She begs Gale not to let her family starve when she goes to the games. You're right, she is doing better than the district, but not even close to as well as the people in the capital and yet physically there isn't much difference. If she is doing as well as you imply, there would be some sort of reference to her family being one of affluence within the district. She's just as poor as everyone else, her family just gets to eat more often.

I'm not saying she should be looking like a refugee from a concentration camp, but she shouldn't look soft. Not enough food and hard physical exertion combine to create a very lean look, thin but defined muscles.

I'm not sure why you guys are struggling with this. I have no problem with the actress's appearance outside of the fact that I don't feel her body type fit the role as defined in the book. She's certainly not fat, as I said before. Soft and squishy and round in places that tend to tighten up just from walking, let alone constant physical exertion, sure. Surviving by physical effort and ability to hunt not so much.

If it's a big deal for you guys, so be it. I'm not seeing anything that would change my mind. She's softer and squishier than the careers, who get all the best food and training. I thought she was supposed to have a hard life?

You should spend more time around country girls.

sent from incredible'

[GreenGoo]

You should spend more time around country girls.

Why? Does that have something to do with the story?

In the first few pages Gale and Katniss share a "real" loaf of bread and some goat cheese. They describe it as a real feast. Let me know when "country girls" consider some bread and cheese a feast.

In fairness, the author is all over the place in terms of just how poor things are in district 12. Sometimes she's talking about people laying inert, too weak from hunger to move, next she's talking about people in the district who can afford cake.

Why is there a bakery when this doing extremely well for herself girl can't afford to buy bread there? Who is the bakery for? The books are filled with these sorts of inconsistencies, but it's not overly important to the story, so no one cares. I don't. But those inconsistencies cover how rough she's supposed to have it. On the one hand, she has to trade away some food that she'd prefer for her and her family to eat so they can get some other things from the black market. On the other she's provided lots and lots of people with meat, as is Gale.

[Smutly]

Her "full" face wasn't the distraction as much as her ass and thighs. I stand by my comment and glad I wasn't alone in observing it. I also interpreted the books as things being damn tight in the District. Why would anyone put another chit in the lottery (for more grain) and risk their lives if things weren't desperate? I mean, unless one of your kids was eating more than their share of black market twinkies then yeah sign them up for more food and ship their ass off to fight in the Twinkie Games.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?ojdblb" target="_blank

[gameoverman]

To give an example of what I'm talking about:

Gale, and his mom, both have their modes of trade and 'income'. They both work hard, and even suffer physically from it, but part of the reason is so Gale's younger siblings will NOT have to do that tessera thing. That's the thing where you put your name in the games lottery in exchange for more supplies.

This means they are doing well enough that they can turn their backs on all those extra supplies, including grain.

The fact that there is a bakery in town also is proof that district has people in it who can afford extra luxuries.

It reminds me of that story King Rat, where British and US troops are in a Japanese POW camp. Most of them are living on the brink of starvation, but some are doing alright. They hustle and work various angles so that they have more than the rest.

Katniss knew Gale would see to her family, she was more apprehensive about the family being in her mom's untrustworthy hands, what with her sister still too young and unprepared to take over. Katniss's concern was exactly what you'd expect from a head of a family who is facing death- what will become of my loved ones? Even if you knew they'd get by you'd still worry for them.

[silverjon]

This means they are doing well enough that they can turn their backs on all those extra supplies, including grain.

There is definitely a class system within the district. People like the mayor's family can afford the wild strawberries Katniss gathers. She literally can't afford to feed those to her own family because she needs the income they'll generate. Luxuries vs. staples.

Presumably, Peeta's family is more affluent than Katniss's, but less affluent than the mayor's. The bakery produces fancy cakes, but that doesn't mean the baker's family gets to eat them.

[Combustible Lemur]

Sigh, now you guys can't even agree on the exact state of things in the book and your bitching about the shape of a young woman who is probably already a size 0.
She probably eats a high grain, and high fat diet and doubtful runs marathons, her muscle would likely be lean but not climber lean. Farm girls often eat game and other subsistence foods, some are thin, some have more mass. The point being, people with out lots of food, who excercise alot still have multiple bodytypes, particularly ones who are successful enough to share. This is taking pointy elbows to a new level.

Rue was black, Katniss is fat, if these are the topics of discussion, it was a good movie.
sent from incredible'

[silverjon]

Sigh, now you guys can't even agree on the exact state of things in the book and your bitching about the shape of a young woman who is probably already a size 0.

Actually, I'm not. I haven't even seen the movie yet, and I can guarantee you I won't have any complaints about body type afterwards.

[GreenGoo]

To give an example of what I'm talking about:

Gale, and his mom, both have their modes of trade and 'income'. They both work hard, and even suffer physically from it, but part of the reason is so Gale's younger siblings will NOT have to do that tessera thing. That's the thing where you put your name in the games lottery in exchange for more supplies.

This means they are doing well enough that they can turn their backs on all those extra supplies, including grain.

The fact that there is a bakery in town also is proof that district has people in it who can afford extra luxuries.

It reminds me of that story King Rat, where British and US troops are in a Japanese POW camp. Most of them are living on the brink of starvation, but some are doing alright. They hustle and work various angles so that they have more than the rest.

Katniss knew Gale would see to her family, she was more apprehensive about the family being in her mom's untrustworthy hands, what with her sister still too young and unprepared to take over. Katniss's concern was exactly what you'd expect from a head of a family who is facing death- what will become of my loved ones? Even if you knew they'd get by you'd still worry for them.

Gale's name was in the bin 42 times. If we assume the games are from 12 to 18, that 35 more chances to die than is required by the capitol. Katniss' was in many times as well.

I've already agreed that Katniss was doing better than most of the really poor. I don't get you guys. When you read the book, your first thought was "man, district 12 is screwed but Katniss and Gale are doing pretty good"?

[GreenGoo]

Sigh, now you guys can't even agree on the exact state of things in the book and your bitching about the shape of a young woman who is probably already a size 0.
She probably eats a high grain, and high fat diet and doubtful runs marathons, her muscle would likely be lean but not climber lean. Farm girls often eat game and other subsistence foods, some are thin, some have more mass. The point being, people with out lots of food, who excercise alot still have multiple bodytypes, particularly ones who are successful enough to share. This is taking pointy elbows to a new level.

Rue was black, Katniss is fat, if these are the topics of discussion, it was a good movie.
sent from incredible'

If you want to reduce this down to it's tough being a woman because men are so judgmental go ahead, but that doesn't address my points at all, so whatever. I'm sorry this is turning into a gender thing for you, since I noticed you don't seem to take issue with my exact same stance on Gale's physique as well. Rue being black or white or blue has nothing to do with what starvation will do to a body, male or female. Even if we assume they weren't starving, they sure as hell weren't taking in enough calories everyday. The book talks about how EVEN WITH hunting every day, they did not have enough to eat at times, and everyone went to bed with their stomachs growling. So don't tell me they were just redolent in food. One day off meant they didn't eat enough. 2 days off and they didn't eat, period.

The movie was only ok in my opinion. As I said, maybe a 7.5. Katniss being too soft and full for the character is not a big deal for me. I didn't even mention it in my first post about the movie. The movie DEFINITELY has bigger issues than Katniss' hips (which are yummy by the way. ) I'm only pursuing this because I'm struggling to reconcile the book's description of Katniss, my own opinion of what Katniss would look like based on the book, how the character looked on the screen, and the insistence of a few that suggest that she had more than enough to eat or if she didn't, she could still look like she did.

Ok, tell you what. I'll agree that it is possible to look soft, weak and curvy, despite not getting enough calories and working hard for the ones you do get. But that's not the norm. Not even close. Katniss in the movie is an exception to the norm, and that is why some people find issue with her. Some more than others, but it was absolutely noticeable while watching. So much so that I fell out of the story to notice. Also I don't understand the comparison to country or farm girls. Katniss neither lived in the country nor farmed or any approximation of farming.

[Odin]

Sigh, now you guys can't even agree on the exact state of things in the book and your bitching about the shape of a young woman who is probably already a size 0.

Actually, I'm not. I haven't even seen the movie yet, and I can guarantee you I won't have any complaints about body type afterwards.

Saw it. Enjoyed it. No complaints.

[Combustible Lemur]

Sigh, now you guys can't even agree on the exact state of things in the book and your bitching about the shape of a young woman who is probably already a size 0.

Actually, I'm not. I haven't even seen the movie yet, and I can guarantee you I won't have any complaints about body type afterwards.

That pick is awesome, and my post was directed at the treatise of calories and anatomy not your post.

sent from incredible'

[silverjon]

Honestly, I really wanted to post the owl.

[Jiffy]

Honestly, I really wanted to post the owl.

And my day was better for it.

[Kelric]

I have not seen the movie. I have seen pictures of the actress. I'm with GreenGoo - I would not ever kick her out of bed.... but she does not physically fit the character of Katniss. Katniss always was supposed to be a day or two of unsuccessful hunting away from starving. Her mother had psychological issues due to the death of her father and wasn't providing enough for them to eat if Katniss wasn't hunting. The hunting is what kept them just above a starvation diet.

[pr0ner]

Her "full" face wasn't the distraction as much as her ass and thighs. I stand by my comment and glad I wasn't alone in observing it. I also interpreted the books as things being damn tight in the District. Why would anyone put another chit in the lottery (for more grain) and risk their lives if things weren't desperate? I mean, unless one of your kids was eating more than their share of black market twinkies then yeah sign them up for more food and ship their ass off to fight in the Twinkie Games.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?ojdblb" target="_blank

What we have here is a combination of a failure to suspend disbelief and nerd rage.

[Smutly]

....some more stupid shit....

---

I realize that text does not convey many things required for good communication, but you are way off base. I said something about the actress portraying Katniss using the word "fat" which resulted in several others having "nerd rage". I admit that "fat" is probably not the most accurate word, but made the point that I do not demand slim actresses, but that her physical condition made it difficult for me to relate to her. GreenGoo agrees and hi-jinx ensue. I respond, to agree with someone else that the situation in District 12 was dire and so she shouldn't have the body mass that she does. Then someone else poses the possibility that she's a freak of nature (my interpretation of their insistence that she *could* look like she does). Well, I don't buy it. I'm pretty sure at no point did I say OMG WTF SHEZZZ UBER FATNESS INSTEAD OF KATNESSSSSS. It's called CASTING, and the casting director decided to pick her for other reasons. I'm not angry about it. I don't care, in fact. I just said it took away from her credibility *for me* (<---- this is an opinion ---- can't be wrong ----- in your face).

What does give me nerd rage is your being a jackass directly toward my comments and ignoring GreenGoo completely. You disagree? Fine, but then make your comment instead of just being an asshole.

"What. The. Fuck." -- Really?

"What we have is a combination of a failure to suspend disbelief and nerd rage." -- Really?

Thanks for your insight.

[pr0ner]

Yes, really. And you're welcome - if you hadn't felt the need to post such inane comments about Jennifer Lawrence (which shows that, yes, you care), I wouldn't have responded as such.

[Smutly]

Yes, really. And you're welcome - if you hadn't felt the need to post such inane comments about Jennifer Lawrence (which shows that, yes, you care), I wouldn't have responded as such.

That's all you got?

[Odin]

That's all you got?

That's probably a sign that it's time to bow out gracefully, use the ignore feature, or just change topics. You're not having a discussion anymore, you're just pissing.

[Zarathud]

I liked the movie, but it made the "Hunger Games" more about the class/financial differences between the Districts and the Capital. The focus was on how the winner would be rewarded, rather than how the winning District would be rewarded with extra rations. Rather than being a purist about the book, I was happy with how well the decadence of the Capital compared with the poverty of the Districts. The movie was fantastic in capitalizing on its ability to visually show the Capital's futuristic fashion tragedies and treatment of life-and-death as entertainment.

So, I don't think there's a need to debate the physical weight of Katniss. I also think the book reflected Katniss' concerns about once being on the brink of starvation, and concerns that being unable to hunt would cause them to return. Hunger was an ever present threat in the Districts, even when you had enough calories.

[gameoverman]

I have not seen the movie. I have seen pictures of the actress. I'm with GreenGoo - I would not ever kick her out of bed.... but she does not physically fit the character of Katniss. Katniss always was supposed to be a day or two of unsuccessful hunting away from starving. Her mother had psychological issues due to the death of her father and wasn't providing enough for them to eat if Katniss wasn't hunting. The hunting is what kept them just above a starvation diet.

That's not the hunger games book I read. I'll spoiler the rest for those who haven't read it:

Spoiler:

Katniss, BEFORE she started hunting, was on the brink of starvation, as was her sister and mom. This was due to the mom's failure to get her ass in gear after Katniss's father died. After Katniss started hunting, the mom snapped out of it and started trading in medicines, made from plants Katniss brought back. In addition, Katniss got her sister a goat which the sister used to provide goat milk and cheese. In addition, Katniss partnered with Gale in hunting AND trapping AND gathering veggies and other edible plant material. They kept what they needed and traded the rest in town for other goods. They were well past the point of imminent starvation. Minus the hunting they'd still have the trade in medicines and goat products. Minus the hunting what they'd lose was their luxuries, all the extra trading for goods that aren't keeping them from starvation per se, but goods that they can really use all the same.

For instance, at the point where we join the story, Katniss and Gale have the luxury of hanging out together and having a private lunch. Do you really think if they, or their families, were on the brink of starvation those two would be sneaking off to eat that by themselves? If anything, with their possible selection for the games pending, they'd want to hoard all the food they could for their families in case they don't survive.

What I think is happening when people read these books is they are confusing Katniss's view of things with what is actually going on. I draw my view of their food situation from the objective events described in the book, not from Katniss's feelings described in the book.

[Kelric]

I did read the books more than six or seven months ago, so the details are probably fuzzy.

[GreenGoo]

Gameover, go back and read them again I guess, because the book explicitly says that despite hunting every day, they often went to bed with their stomachs growling. Nothing you said was wrong, it's just not the whole story, and you're inferring details that are expressly countered by the author's own words. Honestly, this confusion exists because the author was NOT consistent in her description of how rough things were.

Katniss PIGS OUT when she gets on the train, knowing that she is under weight, because she's trying to gain pounds so she can survive in the games, since there is no guarantee food will be available during the games, either through hunting or waiter service.

It's a bit boggling to me that people can read a book called Hunger Games, where the main character goes over all her woes, including the ever present and haunting prospect of starvation, and decide that she's well fed.

Better fed than others in the district maybe. Well fed? The faces at the reaping should have been sunken and the eyes hollow. The "criticism" applies to pretty much the entire casting for district 12, but Katniss takes the brunt because she's the only character most people care about.

[pr0ner]

Yes, really. And you're welcome - if you hadn't felt the need to post such inane comments about Jennifer Lawrence (which shows that, yes, you care), I wouldn't have responded as such.

That's all you got?

[GreenGoo]

I liked the movie, but it made the "Hunger Games" more about the class/financial differences between the Districts and the Capital. The focus was on how the winner would be rewarded, rather than how the winning District would be rewarded with extra rations. Rather than being a purist about the book, I was happy with how well the decadence of the Capital compared with the poverty of the Districts. The movie was fantastic in capitalizing on its ability to visually show the Capital's futuristic fashion tragedies and treatment of life-and-death as entertainment.

So, I don't think there's a need to debate the physical weight of Katniss. I also think the book reflected Katniss' concerns about once being on the brink of starvation, and concerns that being unable to hunt would cause them to return. Hunger was an ever present threat in the Districts, even when you had enough calories.

As I've said, I don't actually care about Katniss looking like she did. It is not a big deal to me. Really. It's just when the idea was expressed the backlash was somewhat strong and denied that it was even possible to hold that opinion (that Katniss was not thin enough). It *is* a reasonable position to hold. Whether it's important enough to get emotional over is another thing entirely.

I understand exactly what gameover is saying, it's just not the conclusion I came to when reading the books myself. I've already said it might be possible that someone in Katniss' situation would look as the actress did, but that it was unlikely. The crowd at the reaping should have looked like everyone had a mild case of anorexia (because a severe case would be too much imo, from what I read in the books) That's about the best I can do on this.

I too thought the Capital was done well, with the focus being on outlandish fashion. I thought Effie was really quite good, in appearance and character. The class and financial situation were a significant part of the 3 books. I think the director was simply setting the backdrop for the future movies. If I recall correctly, the gamemaster had his final run-in with Snow in the second book, not the first. I just see that as blending the transition between the books. I'm fine with that.

I had forgotten that the winner brought in more rations for he's/her district. Weird. I think that idea even goes away in the books for the most part. When Katniss returns to her district I don't recall any talk about everyone being happy and expecting more food. Perhaps this is another idea that the author brought up and then dropped. Or perhaps my memory is failing me.

[Odin]

I'm okay that the emphasis in the movie was partly on the issue of hunger in the Districts (which they definitely did cover, in Katniss's conversations with Gale and her mother), but also on the huge disparity in power and standard of living between the Capitol and the Districts. No, they didn't attack the issue(s) in the same depth as they did in the book, but you wouldn't know that if you hadn't read the books, either. As with most adaptations, you're likely to be disappointed if you cling too strongly to the specifics from the novels.

In the movie version of The Hunger Games, Katniss, Gale and their families are in constant danger of going hungry, but the hunting keeps them reasonably well-fed. She even has nice clothes, from her Reaping Day dress to what she wears out hunting. It's a movie about great injustice - that the people of the districts are forced to labor in dangerous conditions, yet see none of the fruits of their labors. That those same people further must endure the annual sacrifice of their own children in bloody, brutal combat to the death.

With all of that in mind, it's just fine (with me, anyway) if the movie version of Katniss Everdeen isn't an emaciated waif.