Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

[Daehawk]

I stopped asking a long time ago if the republican bar can go lower.

[malchior]

I’m not sure this fits under the “conspiracy theory” umbrella. My understanding is that there are, in fact, links between SSRIs and suicidal/violent thought in some patients, including those who commit acts of violence to themselves and others. To look at over-prescription of SSRIs as a contributing factor to mass shootings may be dumb in light of all the other, more significant and obvious contributing factors, but it doesn’t qualify as a conspiracy. It’s not tin foil-hat wearing, Pizza Gate, Venezuelan election interference type stuff.

FWIW I don't know if you read the article but the reference to conspiracy theories isn't about that link. The article talks about the conspiracy theory aspects which have been layered on top of that.

Just pointing this out because I hate to see labels get tossed around and over-applied to the point that they lose all meaning. Words matter. It’s important we say what we mean and mean what we say.

I get that there a legitimate purpose to guard against knee jerk reactions but these people also don't deserve this sort of benefit of the doubt. At the core we see similar mechanism to other issues they've distorted. In the sense that they take a kernel of truth and then attach all sorts of garbage science including anti-psychiatry conspiracy theories to it to distract from the real root cause issues.

[malchior]

This is the face of the fascism we face. This clip shows a person publicly ridiculing someone, following them around, and yelling at them to make them fear their safety. Look how they ringed around her to intimidate her. Absolute thuggery.

This asshole also made crude sexual comments in a similar style about AOC in a clip in DC. He is an absolute shit heel.

[Kurth]

I’m not sure this fits under the “conspiracy theory” umbrella. My understanding is that there are, in fact, links between SSRIs and suicidal/violent thought in some patients, including those who commit acts of violence to themselves and others. To look at over-prescription of SSRIs as a contributing factor to mass shootings may be dumb in light of all the other, more significant and obvious contributing factors, but it doesn’t qualify as a conspiracy. It’s not tin foil-hat wearing, Pizza Gate, Venezuelan election interference type stuff.

FWIW I don't know if you read the article but the reference to conspiracy theories isn't about that link. The article talks about the conspiracy theory aspects which have been layered on top of that.

Just pointing this out because I hate to see labels get tossed around and over-applied to the point that they lose all meaning. Words matter. It’s important we say what we mean and mean what we say.

I get that there a legitimate purpose to guard against knee jerk reactions but these people also don't deserve this sort of benefit of the doubt. At the core we see similar mechanism to other issues they've distorted. In the sense that they take a kernel of truth and then attach all sorts of garbage science including anti-psychiatry conspiracy theories to it to distract from the real root cause issues.

I’m not giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. I just don’t think this qualifies as a conspiracy theory, and I think the Slate piece is misusing that label.

[Alefroth]

Is U.S. SSRI usage higher than the global rate?

[malchior]

Is U.S. SSRI usage higher than the global rate?

Stats unavailable (really) but the estimates are we'd be the 2nd highest or highest. Still the vast majority of mass shootings involved people who were not medicated.

[malchior]

It should be unbelievable that we are now seeing ads like this running.

[Holman]

It should be unbelievable that we are now seeing ads like this running.

It should be unbelievable that a literal idiot like Walker won the GOP primary in a politically complicated state like Georgia.

[malchior]

Worse that he is pretty much statistically tied.

[Unagi]

It should be unbelievable that a literal a clinically diagnosable idiot like Walker ...

Just to be sure everyone, from all generations, knows what you are saying...

[Carpet_pissr]

Well except the clear link to widely, cheaply available guns designed for military applications but that ship has sailed. I know not easily to implement a solution but it's the constant elephant in the room.

Whoa, now, wait a minute. Are you suggesting our gun violence problem is somehow connected to…GUNS?

You, sir, are a madman and I wish to unsubscribe from your absurd newsletter.

[LawBeefaroni]

This resurfaced after Aurora and I remember taking to a psychiatrist at work about it back then. There were compelling links but in his opinion, SSRIs were not the cause of the increase in shootings.

I haven read any recent literature but it's certainly comforting to think that there would be an identifiable cause and fairly simplebto implement solution. Unfortunately, don't think that's the case.

Well except the clear link to widely, cheaply available guns designed for military applications but that ship has sailed. I know not easily to implement a solution but it's the constant elephant in the room.

Yeah, the difficulty to solve is the problem there. Magically erasing guns would have an impact for sure but we can't do that with current level of magic development. With merely mundane tech and a powerful minority fighting tooth and nail to flood the nation with combat rifles...well here we are.

[Daehawk]

Funny is I can clearly see the Republicans paid him to run because a black vs black contest makes the voters confused or unsure of their votes. Who do they get behind?? This guy or the big football star. Hmmm.

Also I see where the Trump supporters are rallying to get behind Trump in this investigation vs the fbi. I hope he farts and it bites them all in the ass in some way.

[malchior]

This resurfaced after Aurora and I remember taking to a psychiatrist at work about it back then. There were compelling links but in his opinion, SSRIs were not the cause of the increase in shootings.

I haven read any recent literature but it's certainly comforting to think that there would be an identifiable cause and fairly simplebto implement solution. Unfortunately, don't think that's the case.

Well except the clear link to widely, cheaply available guns designed for military applications but that ship has sailed. I know not easily to implement a solution but it's the constant elephant in the room.

Yeah, the difficulty to solve is the problem there. Magically erasing guns would have an impact for sure but we can't do that with current level of magic development. With merely mundane tech and a powerful minority fighting tooth and nail to flood the nation with combat rifles...well here we are.

Right but we can't even have a reasonable conversation that it is the availability of these weapons that's the biggest factor. Every ounce of effort is used to prevent even discussing it. That's a huge problem and avoiding talking about it causes us to drift farther from actual improvement.

[Daehawk]

Whats this shit here?

Alabama GOP to vote on idea of recommending closed primaries

The Alabama Republican Party will take a weekend vote on whether to support a party registration requirement for primaries, also known as a closed primary system.

Alabama is one of 15 states that do not ask voters to register with a political party ahead of a primary. Any passage of the resolution by the party would signal support for the idea.

[ImLawBoy]

That's not really that unusual. As the part you quote notes, Alabama is already one of only 15 states with open primaries.

[Daehawk]

[Unagi]

Yeah, no President of the United States has ever sent a mob to hang the Vice President before either.

[Carpet_pissr]

Mike Pence is starting to give me Lindsey Fucking Graham vibes in terms of having no pride whatsoever.

I JUST WANT TO BE RELEVANT! Shit on my head, send thugs to hunt me down, I don’t care as long as you say you love me (or even just talk about me)!

[El Guapo]

I feel like part of the calculation of people like Pence is that they desperately want to be president but that path is likely blocked by Trump for the near future. A criminal prosecution of Trump could be ideal - Pence might hope that that may take him off the field, but he wants to position himself as Trump's noble avenger.

[malchior]

"There are dozens...um...nearly a dozen of us!"

[Blackhawk]

I feel like part of the calculation of people like Pence is that they desperately want to be president but that path is likely blocked by Trump for the near future. A criminal prosecution of Trump could be ideal - Pence might hope that that may take him off the field, but he wants to position himself as Trump's noble avenger.

Good luck. The Trumpers hate him, and the non-Trumpers associate him with Trump.

[El Guapo]

I feel like part of the calculation of people like Pence is that they desperately want to be president but that path is likely blocked by Trump for the near future. A criminal prosecution of Trump could be ideal - Pence might hope that that may take him off the field, but he wants to position himself as Trump's noble avenger.

Good luck. The Trumpers hate him, and the non-Trumpers associate him with Trump.

Oh I know, but I don't think he realizes that. The other issue is that I think Pence would value a 5% chance of becoming president more than he would continued American democracy.

[LordMortis]

Oh I know, but I don't think he realizes that. The other issue is that I think Pence would value a 5% chance of becoming president more than he would continued American democracy.

I think Pence values American democracy in that he thinks is WASPishness is majoritarian and wants to keep it that way so American democracy continues to be a reflection of WASPishness and its values.

[Kurth]

Oh I know, but I don't think he realizes that. The other issue is that I think Pence would value a 5% chance of becoming president more than he would continued American democracy.

I think Pence values American democracy in that he thinks is WASPishness is majoritarian and wants to keep it that way so American democracy continues to be a reflection of WASPishness and its values.

Just as a note of clarification, Mike Pence is not a WASP. Some interesting Pence background:

Michael Richard Pence was born on June 7, 1959, in Columbus, Indiana, one of six children of Ann Jane "Nancy" Cawley and Edward Joseph Pence Jr.,[9][10] who ran a group of gas stations.[11][12] His father served in the U.S. Army during the Korean War and received the Bronze Star in 1953, which Pence displays in his office along with its commendation letter and a reception photograph.[13] His father was of German and Irish descent and his mother is of Irish ancestry.[14] His paternal grandfather, Edward Joseph Pence, Sr., worked in the Chicago stockyards.[15] He was named after his maternal grandfather, Richard Michael Cawley, who emigrated from Doocastle, County Mayo, Ireland, to the United States through Ellis Island and who became a bus driver in Chicago, Illinois.[16][17][18][19] His maternal grandmother's parents were from Doonbeg, County Clare, Ireland.[20][21]

Pence graduated from Columbus North High School in 1977. He earned a Bachelor of Arts in history from Hanover College in 1981, and a Juris Doctor from the Robert H. McKinney School of Law at Indiana University–Purdue University Indianapolis in Indianapolis in 1986.[22] While at Hanover, he joined the Phi Gamma Delta fraternity, where he became the chapter president.[23] After graduating from Hanover, he was an admissions counselor at the college from 1981 to 1983.[24]

In his childhood and early adulthood, Pence was a Roman Catholic and a Democrat, as was the rest of his family.[25] He volunteered for the Bartholomew County Democratic Party in 1976 and voted for Jimmy Carter in the 1980 presidential election,[26][18] and has said he was originally inspired to get involved in politics by people such as John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King Jr.[26] While in college, Pence left the Catholic Church and became an evangelical, born-again Christian, to the disappointment of his mother.[26][18] His political views also started shifting to the right during this time in his life, something which Pence attributes to the "common-sense conservatism of Ronald Reagan" with which he began to identify.[26][27]

[Skinypupy]

Just as a note of clarification, Mike Pence is not a WASP.

I know the actual definition is more specific in regards to denomination, but these days I tend to take WASP as a general term for a white, overtly religious person.

[Holman]

Oh I know, but I don't think he realizes that. The other issue is that I think Pence would value a 5% chance of becoming president more than he would continued American democracy.

I think he believes that continuing as a candidate for as long as possible gives him a chance for a cabinet post in a DeSantis/Haley administration.

[Carpet_pissr]

He might have been raised Catholic, but he’s definitely a WASP now and has been for a long time.

I’m sure they exist, but when someone is considered a ‘born-again evangelical’ I would argue it almost never means ‘Catholic’.

[Holman]

He might have been raised Catholic, but he’s definitely a WASP now and has been for a long time.

I’m sure they exist, but when someone is considered a ‘born-again evangelical’ I would argue it almost never means ‘Catholic’.

The original mid-20thC meaning of WASP had a class element. It referred to economically successful whites, typically Northeastern, in distinction from Jews and Southern/Eastern European immigrants but also from poorer whites. The "Protestant" part really referred to respectable mainline churches like Episcopalians, Methodists, etc.

A lawyer in Connecticut could be a WASP. A farmer in Alabama couldn't.

[Carpet_pissr]

Ok, current parlance.

[Kurth]

Ok, current parlance.

Current parlance isn't accurate. A White Anglo Saxon Protestant is not what Mike Pence is.

[Kraken]

Yuppies aren't all urban, but I still know one when I meet one.

[Kurth]

Yuppies aren't all urban, but I still know one when I meet one.

Not a hill I want to die on here, but that doesn’t make a lot of sense.

First, while yuppies tend to be urban, I’ve always understood the term to mean “young, upwardly-mobile professional.”

Second, there are fundamental, core parts of being a WASP that Mike Pence doesn’t remotely represent. It’s not just that he’s from Indiana - he doesn’t have any of the other hallmarks of WASPishness, other than he’s white and has been part of the political ruling class. Those two things don’t make him a WASP though, unless we’re just going to hollow out the meaning of that term and completely redefine it.

Pence is second generation Irish-German. From a Catholic family. His grandfather worked menial labor in the Chicago stockyards. His father served in the army in the Korean War and then owned some gas stations.

That’s not a WASP:

In the United States, White Anglo-Saxon Protestants or WASPs are the white, upper-class, American Protestant elite, typically of British descent.[1] WASPs have dominated American society, culture, and politics for most of the history of the United States. After 1945, many Americans criticized the WASP hegemony and disparaged them as part of "The Establishment".[2][3] Although the social influence of wealthy WASPs has declined since the 1940s, the group continues to play a central role in American finance, politics and philanthropy.[4]

I don’t really care all that much if you want to redefine what it means to be a WASP (although, since it’s an acronym, that’s kind of awkward), but if that’s how you want to roll, we ought to be clear we’re doing it so we (and everyone else) can get on the same page.

[Jaymann]

Pence may not be a true WASP, but he plays one on TV.

[Unagi]

Yumppie

Spoiler:

[Kraken]

Yuppies aren't all urban, but I still know one when I meet one.

Not a hill I want to die on here, but that doesn’t make a lot of sense.

First, while yuppies tend to be urban, I’ve always understood the term to mean “young, upwardly-mobile professional.”

Wiki says "young urban professional" or "young upwardly-mobile professional". I always understood the first definition.

[LordMortis]

Pence quacks like ASP... Wiki says he is proclaimed "Evangelical Lutheran Catholic" Google tells me Lutheran is one of five main branches of Protestantism. I am a bit uninformed to understand and too aloof to care about nuances of sects. If respect for religious intolerance forbids me from using my prejudice incorrectly, then amend to his shining white bigoted American cultural elitism founded in British cultural elitism, christian zealotry.

And yeah, I guess that means suburbanites need to be absolved of their historical YUPPIEdom.

[malchior]

Do you suspect as I do that someone hasn't been closely following the DeSantis antics? I mostly agree that DeSantis would accept defeat. That however totally walks past a ugly point. I suspect DeSantis would go along with and possibly enable all the dirty state level anti-democratic activity that'll make that defeat a lot less likely though. I guess I'll add Frum to the very serious people who think Trump is *the* threat instead of the idea that the GOP is a corrupt institution throughout the nation. I don't get why so many smart people are firmly committed to ignoring reality.

[El Guapo]

Yeah I mostly agree. I will say with DeSantis there's at least the possibility of going peacefully after a defeat that doesn't exist with Trump, but the assumption that he would definitely go peacefully is naive.

I do agree that the reaction to this raid has further highlighted the ongoing grip that Trump has on the GOP. I've read a number of pieces over the past couple months arguing that DeSantis has a real shot at toppling Trump given among other things GOP media / political elite preference for DeSantis. I've been skeptical of that argument but open to it, but this further supports the idea that no one can oppose Trump in a GOP primary. Some people are arguing that the raid changed the underlying reality by causing increased support for Trump within the GOP, but I'm inclined to think that it mainly just exposed Trump's ongoing grip on the party.

Basically if there's ever going to be a challenge to Trump within the GOP, someone needs to be able to say "Trump was wrong" or "my positions are preferable to Trump's" without suffering major adverse consequences. And there's still no sign of that.

[Blackhawk]

Wiki says "young urban professional" or "young upwardly-mobile professional". I always understood the first definition.

That's because the first definition was the only definition for most the period the term was used. It was expanded later, after it was already an established term, to include non-urbanites.