Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

[LordMortis]

All that seems true but I won't be fooled about the strength of an imploding GOP again. Between their actual popularity and their gerrymandering and attempts at voter suppression and youknow, a coup of fake electors I have no optimism at the demise of the hate, lies, grift/graft, and corruption.

[El Guapo]

I dunno, the article seems on the silly side. Yes, the GOP's insanity is costing them voters. But the structural advantages that they have in place (gerrymandering especially at the state level, the electoral college, disproportionate representation in the Senate, a media empire that's a de facto wing of the party) are so significant that they can wield significant and consistent power based on the support of a minority of voters. And they're using that power to build further structural advantages.

Is there some limit to GOP insanity, some catalyst that will cause the party to disintegrate? It's possible. But obviously we're far from the end of the GOP as a powerful force in the country.

[Kraken]

I dunno, the article seems on the silly side.

It's largely wishful thinking from a diehard liberal in a state where Republicans are neutered. Her arguments aren't wrong, but they suppose that democracy prevails and young people age into power without losing their ideals. I still found it hopeful in a grand-sweep of history way.

[malchior]

I dunno, the article seems on the silly side.

It's largely wishful thinking from a diehard liberal in a state where Republicans are neutered. Her arguments aren't wrong, but they suppose that democracy prevails and young people age into power without losing their ideals. I still found it hopeful in a grand-sweep of history way.

That's my take. Anyone talking about how the GOP is collapsing should probably reframe to loss of general support. That much is true. That is why we are seeing a GOP in response where they are frantically shoring up a 'legal' rationale to power through anti-normal and anti-democratic measures. It's the classic conservative dilemma. By preventing progress on issues and undermining their support, the GOP composed of true believers, fascists, nativists, racists, evangelists, and a deep bench of amoral plutocrats is pressuring cooking the nation through authoritarian experimentation. It is an open question if the United States will survive in anything that looks like it's pre-2000 classical form.

[YellowKing]

I tend to agree with it more than I disagree, but I admit it paints a rosy picture that's probably not in step with at least short-term reality. But I tend to be a general optimist that believes good ultimately prevails, even if it takes longer than we'd like.

[Unagi]

Ultimately, I like to think that our lame old democracy is stronger than the GOP's attempts to hijack it. I like to think that they will be 'voted out' - gerrymanders and all. But I also wonder if that's just me being stupidly hopeful. I never once thought about how many people truly don't care, but who can still be compelled to vote for some monster...

[malchior]

I think optimism/pessimism framing often leads one away from good analysis for this reason. I prefer realism. If you accurately model the current state and likeliest near states and get long term risks dialed in then you can prepare and respond properly.

The alternative comes down to almost trusting in fate. It is part of why we got here IMO. A lot of people believing the arrow bends towards justice while adversaries made long term plans to undermine progress. And they might very well succeed here.

[YellowKing]

I think the biggest problem is that it's difficult to win a game against cheaters if you're constrained to playing by the rules. That's the situation we've found ourselves in. To play fair means going through the normal democratic process, which is slow and imperfect. I don't know how you fight the pigs without getting in the mud yourself.

[Unagi]

One problem is that the GOP has taken on the role of 'the breaker'. It's 100 times easier to break it than it is to fix it. And you go around breaking more things while the first thing you broke is still being repaired. We are all fucked if enough people truly just sign on to the 'breaker' mentality.

[El Guapo]

I tend to agree with it more than I disagree, but I admit it paints a rosy picture that's probably not in step with at least short-term reality. But I tend to be a general optimist that believes good ultimately prevails, even if it takes longer than we'd like.

I would say that I agree that the Trumpists will lose in the end, it's just that if they succeed in fully rigging the system to maintain their power then it might take decades.

[Kurth]

I dunno, the article seems on the silly side.

It's largely wishful thinking from a diehard liberal in a state where Republicans are neutered. Her arguments aren't wrong, but they suppose that democracy prevails and young people age into power without losing their ideals. I still found it hopeful in a grand-sweep of history way.

That's my take. Anyone talking about how the GOP is collapsing should probably reframe to loss of general support. That much is true. That is why we are seeing a GOP in response where they are frantically shoring up a 'legal' rationale to power through anti-normal and anti-democratic measures. It's the classic conservative dilemma. By preventing progress on issues and undermining their support, the GOP composed of true believers, fascists, nativists, racists, evangelists, and a deep bench of amoral plutocrats is pressuring cooking the nation through authoritarian experimentation. It is an open question if the United States will survive in anything that looks like it's pre-2000 classical form.

When talking about the health or dysfunction of our democracy, it’s probably also worth noting that as we’ve watched the GOP descend into an anti-democracy cult of personality, things aren’t so rosy on the Democratic side of the political spectrum either. Can someone please explain to me why Joe Biden is apparently the best candidate we can put forward to prevent another Trump presidency? Nothing against Joe, but he is going to be 82 during the 2024 campaign, and, if elected, he’ll be 86 before he leaves office. And it’s not like Biden is some universally loved figure, even among Democrats. It’s insane he’s the best candidate we can field to save us from Trump.

[El Guapo]

I dunno, the article seems on the silly side.

It's largely wishful thinking from a diehard liberal in a state where Republicans are neutered. Her arguments aren't wrong, but they suppose that democracy prevails and young people age into power without losing their ideals. I still found it hopeful in a grand-sweep of history way.

That's my take. Anyone talking about how the GOP is collapsing should probably reframe to loss of general support. That much is true. That is why we are seeing a GOP in response where they are frantically shoring up a 'legal' rationale to power through anti-normal and anti-democratic measures. It's the classic conservative dilemma. By preventing progress on issues and undermining their support, the GOP composed of true believers, fascists, nativists, racists, evangelists, and a deep bench of amoral plutocrats is pressuring cooking the nation through authoritarian experimentation. It is an open question if the United States will survive in anything that looks like it's pre-2000 classical form.

When talking about the health or dysfunction of our democracy, it’s probably also worth noting that as we’ve watched the GOP descend into an anti-democracy cult of personality, things aren’t so rosy on the Democratic side of the political spectrum either. Can someone please explain to me why Joe Biden is apparently the best candidate we can put forward to prevent another Trump presidency? Nothing against Joe, but he is going to be 82 during the 2024 campaign, and, if elected, he’ll be 86 before he leaves office. And it’s not like Biden is some universally loved figure, even among Democrats. It’s insane he’s the best candidate we can field to save us from Trump.

I think part of it is that one of the advantages that Democrats do have is that they for the most part enjoy more popular support and advocate for mostly popular things. One drawback of that is that they need to hold together a larger and more diverse coalition, which tends to be solved by supporting the candidate who is least offensive to the most people.

On top of that, being the incumbent president is a huge advantage - it's very rare for a party to not re-nominate someone like that.

[gbasden]

When talking about the health or dysfunction of our democracy, it’s probably also worth noting that as we’ve watched the GOP descend into an anti-democracy cult of personality, things aren’t so rosy on the Democratic side of the political spectrum either. Can someone please explain to me why Joe Biden is apparently the best candidate we can put forward to prevent another Trump presidency? Nothing against Joe, but he is going to be 82 during the 2024 campaign, and, if elected, he’ll be 86 before he leaves office. And it’s not like Biden is some universally loved figure, even among Democrats. It’s insane he’s the best candidate we can field to save us from Trump.

You aren't wrong. The Democratic party has long been a party of incompetence. I mostly agree with their ideals, but they've never been terribly effective at wielding power. It's just that the alternative is unthinkably bad. Structurally, it turns out that our two party system isn't great.

[El Guapo]

When talking about the health or dysfunction of our democracy, it’s probably also worth noting that as we’ve watched the GOP descend into an anti-democracy cult of personality, things aren’t so rosy on the Democratic side of the political spectrum either. Can someone please explain to me why Joe Biden is apparently the best candidate we can put forward to prevent another Trump presidency? Nothing against Joe, but he is going to be 82 during the 2024 campaign, and, if elected, he’ll be 86 before he leaves office. And it’s not like Biden is some universally loved figure, even among Democrats. It’s insane he’s the best candidate we can field to save us from Trump.

You aren't wrong. The Democratic party has long been a party of incompetence. I mostly agree with their ideals, but they've never been terribly effective at wielding power. It's just that the alternative is unthinkably bad. Structurally, it turns out that our two party system isn't great.

Part of that is due to the structural disadvantages that Democrats are working with, though. Like given the disproportionate advantage that the GOP has in the Senate, for the most part when Democrats get a majority, like now it's going to be small and reliant on red state democrats like Manchin. Meaning their ability to maximize that power is limited.

[YellowKing]

I don't think Biden is necessarily the *best* candidate, but he's the safest candidate. Hell, that's what won him the nomination and the Presidency in the first place.

[El Guapo]

I don't think Biden is necessarily the *best* candidate, but he's the safest candidate. Hell, that's what won him the nomination and the Presidency in the first place.

Yup. That and in the 2020 election almost every other candidate was fighting with each other to be as seen to be as progressive as possible, leaving Biden almost alone in the centrist lane.

[Carpet_pissr]

But the structural advantages that they have in place (gerrymandering especially at the state level, the electoral college, disproportionate representation in the Senate, a media empire that's a de facto wing of the party) are so significant that they can wield significant and consistent power based on the support of a minority of voters. And they're using that power to build further structural advantages.

You forgot the Biggie: SC

[Grifman]

Hah, MAGA boycotts AB over the whole trans influencer thing, then it is discovered they are a major Republican donor:

[Scraper]

Hah, MAGA boycotts AB over the whole trans influencer thing, then it is discovered they are a major Republican donor:

MAGA will always eat their own because they have no platform. Their only political philosophy is hatred towards the "other".

[GreenGoo]

MAGA will always eat their own because they have no platform. Their only political philosophy is hatred towards the "other".

Yes. More of this please.

[malchior]

More state level GOP authoritarianism. The Rep is apparently trans themselves which is...about as unsurprising (and sad) as it gets.

[malchior]

The verdict? Seems fair for one comment. The Republicans are incredibly delicate fascists.

[Unagi]

I'm just so disgusted by this shit. And yet, I'm happy to know Zooey Zephyr won her election in Montana. I'm honestly not sure I'm ready to admit how widespread and well-fertilized the seeds of hatred are in America and how the GOP managed to trigger this fucking super bloom of hate.

[gbasden]

There are days I'm seriously ready to see some motherfuckers up against the wall. I'm drifting closer and closer to my inner Drazzil.

[hepcat]

These are legitimate causes for outrage. If you were channeling Drazzil, you would want to burn it all down just because you hate governments/democracy/republics/people who wear pastels. Take your pick.

[waitingtoconnect]

These are legitimate causes for outrage. If you were channeling Drazzil, you would want to burn it all down just because you hate governments/democracy/republics/people who wear pastels. Take your pick.

There does need to be some reform of the two party system.

A big part of this need is that a large part of the political system is based on trusting officials or judges aligned to one of these two parties to do the right thing. And if they didn’t, checks and balances. What has been proven necessary out of the Trump affair is that we cannot guarantee this will happen properly in the future. So instead we need independent electoral boundary commissions in each state to get rid of gerrymandering and independent voting commissions to validate election results.

Right now there are too many safe seats in Congress and state legislatures and so people are now pandering to their base to get through the primary because they will never lose their general election.

We also need more referendums/propositions on key issues to put them to bed once and for all like the Swiss do.

[Unagi]

Unfortunately, we seem to be in a situation where 'independent commission' only means that both parties sent delegates.

[Blackhawk]

The problem now is that we're asking the foxes to figure out how to get the foxes out of the henhouse.

They'll get right on that.

[gbasden]

These are legitimate causes for outrage. If you were channeling Drazzil, you would want to burn it all down just because you hate governments/democracy/republics/people who wear pastels. Take your pick.

I'm starting to believe that there is nothing within the system that will cause the Republicans to reverse course. State governments are removing elected representatives because they can. That's as anti-democratic as it gets. I think there is a limited amount of time where people will turn the other cheek before they strike back. I worry when it's going to turn to violence. On the other hand, I sure as hell hope that people fight back if the right simply starts seizing power.

[Blackhawk]

These are legitimate causes for outrage. If you were channeling Drazzil, you would want to burn it all down just because you hate governments/democracy/republics/people who wear pastels. Take your pick.

I'm starting to believe that there is nothing within the system that will cause the Republicans to reverse course. State governments are removing elected representatives because they can. That's as anti-democratic as it gets. I think there is a limited amount of time where people will turn the other cheek before they strike back. I worry when it's going to turn to violence. On the other hand, I sure as hell hope that people fight back if the right simply starts seizing power.

I constantly worry that you're right about this, and I also fear that people will keep waiting 'just a little longer' until they start taking a stand, speaking out, protesting, etc., until it is too late and they're too entrenched for anything short of revolution to change things (not that I'm advocating for violence.) The only reason that I don't go Drazzil (by which I mean giving up and letting it burn down) is because I know that doing so means choosing to pass the entire load of flaming crap on to the other people who will be around after I'm gone - my kids, strangers' kids, and those kids' kids. I can't do that.

[Grifman]

Geez, this woman is as stupid as they come:

[Unagi]

It’s painful to listen to here make a point

[YellowKing]

That alone would be enough to get me to quit the Republican party. I mean she's not some aberration, some fluke. She's considered a powerful representative of their platform.

[LawBeefaroni]

The verdict? Seems fair for one comment. The Republicans are incredibly delicate fascists.

They best part is they cited her "hateful language" as the reason. This from the party that runs on actual hate speech.

She said something like "the GOP will have blood on its hands with this bill". That's too far for the Montana GOP. Make a note.



Meanwhile bobblefuck MtG is out there spewing hate and epic stupidity to much praise and adoration.

[Scraper]

Geez, this woman is as stupid as they come:

It's almost as if she has a filter installed that only allows stupid things to come out of her mouth. I mean what the hell was she even arguing against? Man made climate change, Teh Illegal brown people, foreign aid, taxes, all of the above? Who the hell knows because none of it was coherent enough to even make a point on any of it.

[hepcat]

[waitingtoconnect]

These are legitimate causes for outrage. If you were channeling Drazzil, you would want to burn it all down just because you hate governments/democracy/republics/people who wear pastels. Take your pick.

I'm starting to believe that there is nothing within the system that will cause the Republicans to reverse course. State governments are removing elected representatives because they can. That's as anti-democratic as it gets. I think there is a limited amount of time where people will turn the other cheek before they strike back. I worry when it's going to turn to violence. On the other hand, I sure as hell hope that people fight back if the right simply starts seizing power.

They won’t seize power in a Trump style coup . They’ll game the existing system so they always win like in Hungary or India. Then like in India they will work on the blue states to flip them red by sending in the IRS and DoJ to flip candidates and media owners to their side.

In this managed democracy scenario they still need some democrats and free media as the evil twisted baby eating devil worshippers that can be arrested and detained to sow fear and anger but not enough to win.

They won’t go full Putin till later when the proverbial frog has been boiled.

[malchior]

An unfortunately plausible path. There are others but there are lots of paths for them to try. It is going to continue to get worse from here on out for several years at least.

[gbasden]

These are legitimate causes for outrage. If you were channeling Drazzil, you would want to burn it all down just because you hate governments/democracy/republics/people who wear pastels. Take your pick.

I'm starting to believe that there is nothing within the system that will cause the Republicans to reverse course. State governments are removing elected representatives because they can. That's as anti-democratic as it gets. I think there is a limited amount of time where people will turn the other cheek before they strike back. I worry when it's going to turn to violence. On the other hand, I sure as hell hope that people fight back if the right simply starts seizing power.

They won’t seize power in a Trump style coup . They’ll game the existing system so they always win like in Hungary or India. Then like in India they will work on the blue states to flip them red by sending in the IRS and DoJ to flip candidates and media owners to their side.

In this managed democracy scenario they still need some democrats and free media as the evil twisted baby eating devil worshippers that can be arrested and detained to sow fear and anger but not enough to win.

They won’t go full Putin till later when the proverbial frog has been boiled.

Which is why fighting back before the boiling occurs is critical.

[waitingtoconnect]

All that seems true but I won't be fooled about the strength of an imploding GOP again. Between their actual popularity and their gerrymandering and attempts at voter suppression and youknow, a coup of fake electors I have no optimism at the demise of the hate, lies, grift/graft, and corruption.

It’s a ploy used very successfully by conservatives overseas. Act as the opposition to yourself to nullify news time for the democrats/opposition

People need to understand this is a long term project not some trump flash in the pan.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... us-primary

Karl Rove stated in 2011 that whomever controls the electoral boundaries controls congress. He setup Project RedMap designed to gerrymander Republican dominance.
What they didn’t anticipate is Trump would take over their party and it’s agenda

Democrat legislators as with other major party legislators in other nations where democracy has fallen see the way the wind is blowing and are actively defecting to the Republican Party delivering increased majorities or even supermajorities.

https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/4/11/ ... on-lacombe

Even a governor has done it.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/ ... can-241300

The Democrats won’t save American democracy. When push comes to shove they will defect for their own ends.

Neither will “conservatives” making questionable deals. On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg, a conservative, appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany. Hitler was not appointed chancellor as the result of an electoral victory with a popular mandate, but instead as the result of a constitutionally questionable deal among a small group of conservative German politicians who had given up on parliamentary rule. They hoped to use Hitler's popularity with the masses to buttress a return to conservative authoritarian rule under themselves, perhaps even a monarchy. Within two years, however, Hitler and the Nazis outmaneuvered Germany's conservative politicians to consolidate a radical Nazi dictatorship completely subordinate to Hitler's personal will.