Octopus Overlords

I'm roughly a page out-of-date (I can't handle R&P every day) for relevancy, but here's yesterday's Did You Know? calendar entry:

It's almost impossible to change someone's mind using facts. This happens due to "motivated reasoning," a psychology term that refers to the way people usually believe whatever they want to believe and use the flimsiest piece of evidence to justify that belief, even when there is plenty of verified evidence to disprove it.

Sorry it has non-social media ramifications, blackhawk.

Trump is the Peter Griffin of the political world. Except Peter is likable.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:02 pm Alberta is not happy with the federal government about a bunch of things, including restrictions on their natural resource usage in various ways, including wanting a new pipeline built and environmental protections, carbon tax, etc etc.

They will be overjoyed to see investment in fossil fuels take it on the nose on this one.

Which is not to say it's wrong, just that Alberta is used to being rich and the price of their oil has dropped through the floor, leading to much civil unhappiness with the population and politicians (on behalf of the citizens). It's a non-stop stream of anger and Trudeau bashing in their media for the last few months.

This is just a cherry on top of their problems, I'm guessing.

The Globe and Mail

Alberta’s energy minister says it’s a good time to build a pipeline because public-health restrictions limit protests against them.

Sonya Savage made the comment Friday on a podcast hosted by the Canadian Association of Oilwell Drilling Contractors. She was asked about progress of the Trans Mountain Expansion project, which is under construction on its route between Edmonton and Vancouver.

“Now is a great time to be building a pipeline because you can’t have protests of more than 15 people,” Ms. Savage said. “Let’s get it built.”

While the interviewer laughed, Ms. Savage did not.

Unprompted, Ms. Savage went on to suggest that the economic turmoil caused by the pandemic favours pipeline construction.
...
“We respect the right to lawful protests,” said Kavi Bal. “I would note that the limitations to public gatherings … have benefited no one – including project proponents and any opposition groups.”

Both Alberta and B.C. have increased their limits to 50 people for outdoor gatherings.

Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:02 pm

You are such a tease

Well, it’s not like oil prices have swung back the other way yet.

Wow.

Holman wrote: ↑Fri May 29, 2020 8:56 pm Wow.

I'm anxiously awaiting his moronic response. Have to believe his handlers don't let him though. That's a flame war he would lose.

Will trade Portland, Oregon and Trump for Trudeau and Sault Ste Marie, Ontario.

Kristen Bartlett wrote:

Meghan McCain wrote: My neighborhood in Manhattan is eviscerated and looks like a war zone. DeBlasio and Cuomo are an utter disgrace. This is not America. Our leaders have abandoned us and continue to let great American cities burn to the ground and be destroyed. I never could have fathomed this

Meghan, we live in the same building, and I just walked outside. It’s fine.

Steve King (R-acist) ousted in the Iowa primary

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:20 pm Steve King (R-acist) ousted in the Iowa primary

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

About time!

This is why I can't completely hate social media. Sometimes...it delivers.

Listen @SteveKingIA, we've had our differences. But I want you to know from the bottom of my heart that it was deeply personal, and that you are a racist piece of shit, and I can't wait for you to slink off into obscurity.

I just learned the word "Boogaloo" and what it means from reading an article today. I had never heard of this before. I assume most of you all are more savy than I. How long have the rest of you known about this?

You ain’t alone, brother..

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:06 pm I just learned the word "Boogaloo" and what it means from reading an article today. I had never heard of this before. I assume most of you all are more savy than I. How long have the rest of you known about this?

At least January.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:06 pm I just learned the word "Boogaloo" and what it means from reading an article today. I had never heard of this before. I assume most of you all are more savy than I. How long have the rest of you known about this?

A primer.

Members of the boogaloo movement also use other similar-sounding derivations of the word, including boog, boojihadeen, big igloo, and big luau, and have created logos and other imagery incorporating igloo snow huts, and Hawaiian prints. The names and the broader imagery are used by members of the boogaloo movement to avoid crackdowns and automated content flags imposed by social media sites to limit or ban boogaloo-related content. Members sometimes identify themselves at protests by wearing Hawaiian shirts along with military fatigues. They have also used other imagery popular among the far-right, such as the Pepe the Frog meme.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:06 pm I just learned the word "Boogaloo" and what it means from reading an article today. I had never heard of this before. I assume most of you all are more savy than I. How long have the rest of you known about this?

I heard about it in passing a few weeks ago, but just got schooled in the last couple days. One of my nephews is all-in on burning everything down and killing everyone in power, because they're all thieving pedophiles.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:05 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:06 pm I just learned the word "Boogaloo" and what it means from reading an article today. I had never heard of this before. I assume most of you all are more savy than I. How long have the rest of you known about this?

I heard about it in passing a few weeks ago, but just got schooled in the last couple days. One of my nephews is all-in on burning everything down and killing everyone in power, because they're all thieving pedophiles.

I first took note of the term this week, but only read about them just now by clicking Max's link, so you were ahead of me!

I learned about it here. I'm not sure when. I want to say when a white supremacy terrorist group came in from Canada and was caught trying to get to some demonstration or another.

I instantly thought of Breakin' II and went off to the Internet and sure enough that was the inspiration.

A quick search says OO let me know that if lawbeef in January but that went over my head. It was a machior/Lawbeef conversation in February that sunk in

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... o#p2706365

I've known about it for a couple of years because I follow some SPLC types and other journalists who focus on right-wing militias.

@jjmacnab is good on this stuff.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:05 pm I heard about it in passing a few weeks ago, but just got schooled in the last couple days. One of my nephews is all-in on burning everything down and killing everyone in power, because they're all thieving pedophiles.

Are you sure he's not QAnon? They're the ones who claim to see a secret elite pedophile conspiracy in everything. (e.g. Pizzagate)

Boogaloos are all about the 2nd Civil War, often conceived as a race war.

And the boogaloos are all over the place. They aren't all that organized either. I'm pretty aware of them since there is a lot of cyber security overlap with militia movements.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:28 pm I've known about it for a couple of years because I follow some SPLC types and other journalists who focus on right-wing militias.

@jjmacnab is good on this stuff.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:05 pm I heard about it in passing a few weeks ago, but just got schooled in the last couple days. One of my nephews is all-in on burning everything down and killing everyone in power, because they're all thieving pedophiles.

Are you sure he's not QAnon? They're the ones who claim to see a secret elite pedophile conspiracy in everything. (e.g. Pizzagate)

Boogaloos are all about the 2nd Civil War, often conceived as a race war.

I don't think he splits hairs. Mostly, he goes along with his friends. One day he'll be all about anarchy, the next he's law-n-order. He just likes to see somebody getting whapped upside the head.

Honestly this describes a lot of these people. They are disaffected, borderline nihilists sometimes. And it is sad because our society seems to be producing them in some numbers which speaks about us more than than it speaks about them.

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:39 pm Honestly this describes a lot of these people. They are disaffected, borderline nihilists sometimes. And it is sad because our society seems to be producing them in some numbers which speaks about us more than than it speaks about them.

We've had two generations of wage and opportunity stagnation. It's been entirely stratified by education and social class, but the right-wing media complex has been dedicated since at least the early 1990s to stoking the narrative that poor and middle-class whites are being held back by anyone black or brown.

That's it. That's post-Cold-War American history. Everything else is just cultural flavor and window-dressing.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:50 pm

Watching this video got me wondering if it would be possible to create a federal bureau of police enforcement. A "Police Reserve" - men and women who want to protect America, the Constitution, and people's rights. It's open enrollment with standards, like the military, and achieves many basic elements of training and drilling to prepare police officers of the realities of their jobs. Classes on diffusing domestic disputes. Classes on respectful crowd dispersal. Classes on identifying mental illness. Classes on handling riots. A federal standard. Room and board paid for for 4 years while they learn all of this, like the military - but with emphasis on upholding law and order in a respectful and compassionate way. In these 4 years you could weed out a lot of the big tough guys and little Napoleons that gravitate towards law enforcement. It could even be a second route for enlisted personnel who retire and want to continue serving, acting as a way to help retrain them to acclimate to working with civilians instead of dumping a war veteran into a position of managing angry moms with his military combat skills.

When a state wants to hire or replace an officer, they tap the pool and "buy out" one of the Police Reserve to come work for them. The federal government pays a pension of sorts for service, and the municipality covers the rest of their salary, easing the burden of small towns that still need good cops. They become a state or city police officer, complete with 4 years of comprehensive policing standards and training. The Police Reserve could be deployed as needed, like the National Guard, but specifically with intent to help domestic problems that are social issues and not insurgent uprisings.

Time and again, people identify a lack of training as the issue. Not every state or municipality has the budget to train cops as well as they should; hell, some have basic arms training and turn people loose. I knew a guy who basically said that to become a part time cop, all he had to do was prove he could shoot straight.

In trying to find a solution it seems crystal clear that bottom-level mandates in cities aren't cutting it and are too wildly variable. Could something like this work?

It's an interesting idea. The lack of accountability and the political nature of local police departments is a certainly a problem. Training is an issue, and the bar continues to lower as fewer and fewer good candidates want to be cops.

The current popular option of civilian oversight boards and/or consent decrees don't work. They hamstring officers and send mixed messages.

I think at the very least some sort of national certification and licensing. Right now a bad apple can move from force to force without much difficulty. Or badness gets entrenched in an agency and is never addressed.

lf there was a national (or even state) licensing and review board, bad actors wouldn't be able to hide as easily. Anyone with improper use of force or other bad behavior would have to answer for it. Doctors have to deal with this. There is a national malpractice database. They can't move from state to state or hospital to hospital to escape their past.

Cops go to academy and then they're good for life. Other than annual range qualification, what minimum maintenance and education do they do?

All the cops I know are fairly ambitious, taking classes and trying to advance but there are plenty who are happy just staying PO and waiting on that pension. Which is fine except how are they growing? The mandatory "diversity" or "use of force" training every time there is an incident is a joke, as anyone who is in corporate America knows from similar programs. And vice versa, where is the institutional knowledge and wisdom when large departments are primarily political animals, promoting by clout and favors? The best cops languish or leave while poor leaders often gets promoted because they are good lackeys.

Anyway, yeah, I think a national review and maintenance program, at the very least, is a good idea.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:43 pm It's an interesting idea. The lack of accountability and the political nature of local police departments is a certainly a problem. Training is an issue, and the bar continues to lower as fewer and fewer good candidates want to be cops.

The current popular option of civilian oversight boards and/or consent decrees don't work. They hamstring officers and send mixed messages.

I think at the very least some sort of national certification and licensing. Right now a bad apple can move from force to force without much difficulty. Or badness gets entrenched in an agency and is never addressed.

lf there was a national (or even state) licensing and review board, bad actors wouldn't be able to hide as easily. Anyone with improper use of force or other bad behavior would have to answer for it. Doctors have to deal with this. There is a national malpractice database. They can't move from state to state or hospital to hospital to escape their past.

Cops go to academy and then they're good for life. Other than annual range qualification, what minimum maintenance and education do they do?

All the cops I know are fairly ambitious, taking classes and trying to advance but there are plenty who are happy just staying PO and waiting on that pension. Which is fine except how are they growing? The mandatory "diversity" or "use of force" training every time there is an incident is a joke, as anyone who is in corporate America knows from similar programs. And vice versa, where is the institutional knowledge and wisdom when large departments are primarily political animals, promoting by clout and favors? The best cops languish or leave while poor leaders often gets promoted because they are good lackeys.

Anyway, yeah, I think a national review and maintenance program, at the very least, is a good idea.

At the same time, I worry what a national program like this would look like after people like Trump and Barr wind up in charge of it.

Also, what's the basis for your assertion that consent decrees don't work?

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:53 pm

Also, what's the basis for your assertion that consent decrees don't work?

Chicago.

CPD met less than half of the 50 requirements last year. It's toothless and at the whim of the political DoJ. And on at the local level, politicians just use it to advance their own vision of justice causing all sorts of confusion in the ranks and civilian population. Unpopular agenda item? Blame consent decree.

I'm not saying it can't work, but it hasn't here. Did it work in LA? Supposedly for a while but they are back on it this year. Does it need to be permenent?

I think there are better alternatives.

At the same time, I worry what a national program like this would look like after people like Trump and Barr wind up in charge of it.

Understood. But maybe a national accreditation agency, not a federal government agency. PDs could use the services to vet officers. The incentive would be lower civil liability and, *gasp*, a better police force. Unions might hate it at first. I'm sure there's a way to get them their cut.

PS, isn't Barr the top man in charge of the consent decrees now?

They call it Florida politics. I'd call it an American tradition - protecting the rich and wealthy even though gave a pass to a sex trafficker!

What are alternatives to having no cops?

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:54 pm What are alternatives to having no cops?

Good thing that literally no one is proposing that.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:32 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:54 pm What are alternatives to having no cops?

Good thing that literally no one is proposing that.

But it is an excellent example of why the slogan isn't the best one.

Paingod wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:28 am
Room and board paid for for 4 years while they learn all of this, like the military - but with emphasis on upholding law and order in a respectful and compassionate way.

...

Not every state or municipality has the budget to train cops as well as they should; hell, some have basic arms training and turn people loose. I knew a guy who basically said that to become a part time cop, all he had to do was prove he could shoot straight.

From what I 've read, the average US police officer gets 19 weeks of training. In California, they get 32 weeks. In Indiana, they can be deployed without any training at all if they do it sometime later during their first year. The training is focused on learning to shoot, safety of police officers and achieving compliance by force. Deescalation strategies are usually not tought.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:32 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:54 pm What are alternatives to having no cops?

Good thing that literally no one is proposing that.

From my reading some people are literally proposing that. "Defund the police" seems to have a broad meaning and when defund literally means take all funds away, it's easy to see how that voice will be amplified.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:32 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:54 pm What are alternatives to having no cops?

Good thing that literally no one is proposing that.

No one serious is proposing it. But I've seen the hashtag #abolishthepolice on Twitter recently.

Literally the first link when I google "defund the Police" poses the idea literally as "a radical idea gaining traction"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/what- ... index.html

Why disband police?
Disbanding police altogether falls on the more radical end of the police divestment spectrum, but it's gaining traction.
MPD150, a community advocacy organization in Minneapolis, focuses on abolishing local police. Its work has been spotlighted since the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis Police custody.
"The people who respond to crises in our community should be the people who are best-equipped to deal with those crises," the organization says.
Rather than "strangers armed with guns," the organization says, first responders should be mental health providers, social workers, victim advocates and other community members in less visible roles.
It argues law and order isn't abetted by law enforcement, but through education, jobs and mental health services that low-income communities are often denied. MPD150 and other police abolition organizations want wider access to all three.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:07 am

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:32 pm

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:54 pm What are alternatives to having no cops?

Good thing that literally no one is proposing that.

No one serious is proposing it. But I've seen the hashtag #abolishthepolice on Twitter recently.

With the entrenched police unions seeming to want to create massive disruptions to block widespread reforms of their practices, abolishing them may be the only option. Rehire any with good service records immediately after, but certainly nuke the old way of doing it first. I had read about one city that did this and had some success in moving forward with cleaning things up.

They just had to nuke it from orbit first. Just to be sure.

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:13 am I had read about one city that did this and had some success in moving forward with cleaning things up.

Camden, NJ. There's a lot documentation out there (going back to 2012) and it's really worth the read(s).