Shutdown

[Isgrimnur]

Recall

The State Department is calling back its furloughed diplomats next week after finding enough money to meet payroll to cover two weeks, but the 8,000 returning employees will still have to wait to get their retroactive pay, officials said Thursday.

The decision to recall diplomats was announced by Deputy Secretary of State John Sullivan during a luncheon for more than 180 ambassadors attending an annual conference. He received what one official described as two “rousing” rounds of applause.

Officials said a review of the State Department’s payroll accounts came up with enough money to meet one 15-day pay period. Beyond that, officials cautioned they will have to see if they can identify funds from other accounts that can be tapped should the shutdown extend beyond that. That would require the consent of Congress, however.

Though the number of furloughed employees has shifted from week to week, currently 40 percent of the 14,500 working in the United States are furloughed, as are 23 percent of 9,500 working overseas. More than 50,000 people work as local hires in embassies and consulates abroad, but they are protected from furloughs because local labor laws prohibit the practice of not paying people for work done.

[Holman]

Trump has upped the ante in the Pelosi/Trump letter slap fight.

"Madame"?

[Jeff V]

Political problems are meaningless for him, so he'll easily finish his terms (I still think he wins re-election too). What happens after that will be interesting.

I think 2020 is a long-shot now. His coalition is trashed. The mid-term results suggest that he isn't even close in PA anymore. He can't win without PA.

I can't see it happening, either. All he has is his deplorables. Independents don't want anything to with him. Democrats are energized and a lot more voters are going to be ambivalent about casting a ballot. I live in a district that's long been very red (in an old Republican way) and it flipped. I'm still surprised (and disgusted) that more GOP congressmen aren't cutting ties with the orange monkey god. Those who have seem to retain some credibility and dignity and seem better able to function in a bi-partisan government.

[LawBeefaroni]

Can the Secret Service be furloughed? Purely a hypothetical question.

[pr0ner]

Can the Secret Service be furloughed? Purely a hypothetical question.

I believe they're working without pay right now.

Or are you asking if they can be told to go home?

[Jaymann]

They are out buying hamberders.

[stessier]

Political problems are meaningless for him, so he'll easily finish his terms (I still think he wins re-election too). What happens after that will be interesting.

I think 2020 is a long-shot now. His coalition is trashed. The mid-term results suggest that he isn't even close in PA anymore. He can't win without PA.

I can't see it happening, either. All he has is his deplorables. Independents don't want anything to with him. Democrats are energized and a lot more voters are going to be ambivalent about casting a ballot. I live in a district that's long been very red (in an old Republican way) and it flipped. I'm still surprised (and disgusted) that more GOP congressmen aren't cutting ties with the orange monkey god. Those who have seem to retain some credibility and dignity and seem better able to function in a bi-partisan government.

I live in a SC. I see his support is as strong as ever. I'm betting the same people who weren't polled last time are being undercounted again.

[GreenGoo]

I live in a SC. I see his support is as strong as ever. I'm betting the same people who weren't polled last time are being undercounted again.

Unlikely. You're welcome to your opinion and I'm not counting any chickens yet, but as YK points out, 2018 elections were a referendum on drumpf, and it did not go well for him. There is no reason to believe that the borderline states will stay borderline, and those are the only ones that matter (is my understanding of how your system works).

SC isn't going to vote for a democrat anytime soon. That's true even if it's Jesus(D) vs. Satan(R). SC hasn't voted for a dem in over 50 years. Now, if you want to speak to your neighbours and get them to vote for whoever challenges Drumpf on the Rep side, you might make some headway.

edit: To be clear, I have no doubt that drumpf support in SC hasn't waned, so I'm sure your observation there is accurate. His supporters (all 30-40% of them) have to live somewhere. What I'm saying is that SC doesn't matter.

[YellowKing]

I think the math is really simple. For Trump to win re-election, he's got to gain voters, keep the same voters he got in 2016, or suppress Democratic turnout. There is no indication that ANY of those is happening. In fact, quite the opposite.

And while 2016 was certainly unpredictable and shocking, we now know the factors that led to it. And we also know that most of those factors simply aren't going to be there in 2020.

[El Guapo]

Political problems are meaningless for him, so he'll easily finish his terms (I still think he wins re-election too). What happens after that will be interesting.

I think 2020 is a long-shot now. His coalition is trashed. The mid-term results suggest that he isn't even close in PA anymore. He can't win without PA.

I can't see it happening, either. All he has is his deplorables. Independents don't want anything to with him. Democrats are energized and a lot more voters are going to be ambivalent about casting a ballot. I live in a district that's long been very red (in an old Republican way) and it flipped. I'm still surprised (and disgusted) that more GOP congressmen aren't cutting ties with the orange monkey god. Those who have seem to retain some credibility and dignity and seem better able to function in a bi-partisan government.

I live in a SC. I see his support is as strong as ever. I'm betting the same people who weren't polled last time are being undercounted again.

He's going to win South Carolina in 2020 guaranteed (short of embracing sharia law and declaring that North Carolina's barbecue is better) - that tells us essentially nothing about his re-election prospects (as would saying that he's going to lose Massachusetts).

Reelection at this point is probably an uphill battle given his approval rating, though far from impossible.

[El Guapo]

Other good news is that a local restaurant is now offering free burgers to federal employees and their families, and now the New England Aquarium is offering free admission to federal employees + family.

All I need is for more places to give me free stuff, and the government never needs to reopen.

[NickAragua]

From the "sometimes the sun shines on a dog's ass" files:

Net neutrality repeal case to proceed despite shutdown

Doesn't really mean that the case will go anywhere, but there's a little bit of schadenfreude here. Too bad the shutdown affects actual people too, and not just corporate stooges.

[Zaxxon]

[gbasden]

That's true, however at some point people are going to need to legitimately quit and find work elsewhere - which results in the same thing (an overall reduction in the size of government workforce). The shutdown (and lack of societal collapse) proves (to them) that this is smart and its exactly what Trumpaloos want. In other words, so much winning through stiggin' it.

The general attitude from my conservative family members seems to be, "It hasn't affected me personally (yet), therefore the government shutdown is no big deal." Which tracks 100% with conservatives general lack of empathy towards anyone or anything that isn't them.

So much this.

[GreenGoo]

<snip>

I thought the argument put forth by the white house was that security could not be guaranteed due to the furlough, not that the plane/pilots aren't available?

I mean, obviously it's political cover for screwing Pelosi over, but the idea that Melania can't fly around inside the continental United States because Pelosi can't fly outside it doesn't track.

[Zaxxon]

Where did you see such a cogent argument put forth by the White House?

[Max Peck]

Pelosi suggested postponing the SotU address due to security concerns, since the federal agencies that coordinate security are furloughed.

The administration flat out stated that they wanted Pelosi to stay in DC, so they cancelled her military transport and but invited her to fly commercial if she wished to do so (after they had compromised operational security for the entire congressional delegation, of course). There was not any attempt to provide political cover, it was just a raw exercise of power. Libs were pwned.

It's probably neither here nor there that the First Lady flew to Florida on the same type of aircraft that would have been used for Pelosi's trip. Of course, if she flew to Florida on the very same aircraft that had been prepped for the CODEL, the optics would be glorious.

[Zaxxon]

Exactly. Trump's grounding of Pelosi is purely a political power play. No mention of security as the purported reason, Goo--just name-dropping the 800k furloughed Americans and boo-hooing how sad it is that Pelosi wasn't going to stay and 'negotiate.' If she wants to go, she can fly commercial.

If you're gonna make that call, then you don't send the Missus on vacation on a military plane the same day.

Of course this is far too delicate a concept for the Orange One to grok, but here we are.

[GreenGoo]

Where did you see such a cogent argument put forth by the White House?

I'm not sure. I thought it was here. I'll take a closer look tomorrow to see if I can figure where I thought I saw it.

Edit: honestly I'm not sure. I think it was partially paingod talking about withholding military security and me misconstruing what was in the letter.

In any case, if my interpretation was right (it isn't) or your view is correct (it is), Melania flying around is irrelevant to Pelosi's trip being cancelled. I'm just not a fan of some weird mental gymnastics required to think "but Melania gets to fly" is a condemnation of Drumpf cancelling Pelosi's trip.

Particularly when Drumpf has provided plenty of fodder for real criticism in his letter.

With my mistaken impression corrected, I think paingod's question "can he do that?" Is still waiting to be answered, no? What power does the white house have over these sorts of things?

[coopasonic]

With my mistaken impression corrected, I think paingod's question "can he do that?" Is still waiting to be answered, no? What power does the white house have over these sorts of things?

By announcing it he has compromised it, so I guess that kind of power?

[GreenGoo]

That's not the same thing as cancelling it. Particularly since he seems to think he can take away her governmental transport.

If it wasn't clear, I was asking about his official power.

[Remus West]

I think the math is really simple. For Trump to win re-election, he's got to gain voters, keep the same voters he got in 2016, or suppress Democratic turnout. There is no indication that ANY of those is happening. In fact, quite the opposite.

And while 2016 was certainly unpredictable and shocking, we now know the factors that led to it. And we also know that most of those factors simply aren't going to be there in 2020.

I think you underestimate the evil of the Republican Party still.

[LordMortis]

I think the math is really simple. For Trump to win re-election, he's got to gain voters, keep the same voters he got in 2016, or suppress Democratic turnout. There is no indication that ANY of those is happening. In fact, quite the opposite.

And while 2016 was certainly unpredictable and shocking, we now know the factors that led to it. And we also know that most of those factors simply aren't going to be there in 2020.

I think you underestimate the evil of the Republican Party still.

There is plenty of evidence the GOP is actively working on suppressing voter turnout (not voting for the GOP) but there is little evidence they are succeeding. The two biggest examples I am aware of are the efforts in Wisconsin and here in Michigan. In Michigan GOP proxies have lost in court (again and again) before the election. In Wisconsin, the lame duck legislature got slapped around by the courts.

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/17/68632765 ... oting-laws

I don't think efforts will stop but I'm happy to see the state of things.

All that said, the real fear for me remains that I was wholly ignorant of how much support there was for someone like Trump and for what this particular face of the GOP has to offer. Win or lose in 2020, that demographic will remain and this will be our country.

[Holman]

With my mistaken impression corrected, I think paingod's question "can he do that?" Is still waiting to be answered, no? What power does the white house have over these sorts of things?

The only explanation I have seen is that the Commander-in-Chief can direct the DoD to make resources available or unavailable.

I don't know if that's really the case, or what the usual process for requesting this kind of travel might be, but I also don't know of any president stepping in to shit on an opposition leader's plans like this.

Also:

Surprise! Lindsey Graham is suddenly in Ankara meeting with Erdogan.

One assumes he didn't fly commercial.

[Jeff V]

All that said, the real fear for me remains that I was wholly ignorant of how much support there was for someone like Trump and for what this particular face of the GOP has to offer. Win or lose in 2020, that demographic will remain and this will be our country.

They are gullible though and can be fooled. Get an unknown to run a populist campaign as a GOP candidate then flip-flop once elected (think Colbert's character that he portrayed on his Comedy Central show). When a GOP president actually does take all of their guns away, they should all explode in conflagration of despondency.

[Unagi]

Surprise! Lindsey Graham is suddenly in Ankara meeting with Erdogan.

Duh... where they are working on Strong Border Security...

[Octavious]

Graham is such a piece of shit.

[Skinypupy]

This has obviously become an Islamic terrorist invasion, because they're finding prayer rugs at the border now. PRAYER. RUGS.

Ranchers and farmers near the U.S.-Mexico border have been finding prayer rugs on their properties in recent months, according to one rancher who asked to remain anonymous for fear of retaliation by cartels who move the individuals.

The mats are pieces of carpet that those of the Muslim faith kneel on as they worship.

"There’s a lot of people coming in not just from Mexico," the rancher said. "People, the general public, just don’t get the terrorist threats of that. That’s what’s really scary. You don’t know what’s coming across. We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal. It’s not just Mexican nationals that are coming across."

You know, just like you always find bibles and crosses strewn about on the ground in the very Christian parts of the US. And, of course, we have full confidence that a rancher in southern New Mexico can accurately distinguish between an actual prayer rug and a random scrap of cloth, right?

I'm again left to wonder how awful it must be to live in such constant, pants-shitting terror of brown people.

And now the President of the United States is tweeting this utter garbage. Let's all let that sink in for a moment.

Border rancher: “We’ve found prayer rugs out here. It’s unreal.” Washington Examiner People coming across the Southern Border from many countries, some of which would be a big surprise

JFC

[Unagi]

LOL. I mean, it's almost funny... right?

[Holman]

Short thread from Pelosi's spokesperson:



The Pelosi team actually did consider flying commercially. The Administration leaked -those- plans too, making them impossible.

Also, according to NBC's Andrea Mitchell, Pelosi (as someone high in the line of succession) doesn't have to request military flights. She is entitled to them.

This move was entirely about denying that Congress is an equal branch of government. Open authoritarianism. Expect more of it.

[Smoove_B]

The bar is so impossibly low for the next President, it's almost beyond comprehension.

[LordMortis]

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/4 ... on-funding

He won't waste time asking the president to pass a bill budget with no wall but...

The Senate rejected a bill on Thursday that would have permanently banned the use of federal funding for abortions.

The bill would have enshrined in law a long-standing provision that is tacked on to appropriations bills every year, forbidding the use of federal funds for abortions in programs like Medicaid.

It also would have banned ObamaCare subsidies for insurance plans that cover abortion.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) teed up the largely symbolic vote for Thursday, one day ahead of the March for Life, the annual march against abortion that takes place in Washington.

And somehow when it comes to Congress, it's the democrats fault nearly as much as Trump and GOP are largely blameless? May this be the event that finally tanks this man.

[wonderpug]

The bar is so impossibly low for the next President, it's almost beyond comprehension.

[Chrisoc13]

I mean...pelosi played political games. Political games were played back to her. Not sure what people were expecting or why people are trying to say what trump did was wrong while what pelosi did is ok. I'm not a trump fan at all but... Pelosi shouldn't have dished it out with her state of the union play if she couldn't take it.

All of that doesn't change that this whole shutdown is stupid, and certainly doesn't mean I'm for the wall. But I must admit I laughed when I saw what trump did. Well played. Well played. Your turn pelosi.

[noxiousdog]

I mean...pelosi played political games. Political games were played back to her. Not sure what people were expecting our why people are trying to say what trump did was wrong while what pelosi did is ok. I'm not a trump fan at all but... Pelosi shouldn't have dished it out with her state of the union play if she couldn't take it.

All of that doesn't change that this whole shutdown is stupid, and certainly doesn't mean I'm for the wall. But I must admit I laughed when I saw what trump did. Well played. Well played. Your turn pelosi.

That is a terrible take.

What was the impact of Pelosi's note? Nothing. What was the result of Trumps? A major security violation and cancellation of a meeting with our allies that is already a bit strained.

[pr0ner]

I mean...pelosi played political games. Political games were played back to her. Not sure what people were expecting or why people are trying to say what trump did was wrong while what pelosi did is ok. I'm not a trump fan at all but... Pelosi shouldn't have dished it out with her state of the union play if she couldn't take it.

All of that doesn't change that this whole shutdown is stupid, and certainly doesn't mean I'm for the wall. But I must admit I laughed when I saw what trump did. Well played. Well played. Your turn pelosi.

C'mon, man.

[Chrisoc13]

I mean...pelosi played political games. Political games were played back to her. Not sure what people were expecting our why people are trying to say what trump did was wrong while what pelosi did is ok. I'm not a trump fan at all but... Pelosi shouldn't have dished it out with her state of the union play if she couldn't take it.

All of that doesn't change that this whole shutdown is stupid, and certainly doesn't mean I'm for the wall. But I must admit I laughed when I saw what trump did. Well played. Well played. Your turn pelosi.

That is a terrible take.

What was the impact of Pelosi's note? Nothing. What was the result of Trumps? A major security violation and cancellation of a meeting with our allies that is already a bit strained.

Oh please. The impact of both is nothing. Take the blinders off. Even CNN who hates Trump saw it for what it was. Political games. She played her hand, of course Trump responded.

[noxiousdog]

I mean...pelosi played political games. Political games were played back to her. Not sure what people were expecting our why people are trying to say what trump did was wrong while what pelosi did is ok. I'm not a trump fan at all but... Pelosi shouldn't have dished it out with her state of the union play if she couldn't take it.

All of that doesn't change that this whole shutdown is stupid, and certainly doesn't mean I'm for the wall. But I must admit I laughed when I saw what trump did. Well played. Well played. Your turn pelosi.

That is a terrible take.

What was the impact of Pelosi's note? Nothing. What was the result of Trumps? A major security violation and cancellation of a meeting with our allies that is already a bit strained.

Oh please. The impact of both is nothing. Take the blinders off. Even CNN who hates Trump saw it for what it was. Political games. She played her hand, of course Trump responded.

Let me know when Pelosi flies to Europe/Afghanistan.

[malchior]

I mean...pelosi played political games. Political games were played back to her. Not sure what people were expecting our why people are trying to say what trump did was wrong while what pelosi did is ok. I'm not a trump fan at all but... Pelosi shouldn't have dished it out with her state of the union play if she couldn't take it.

All of that doesn't change that this whole shutdown is stupid, and certainly doesn't mean I'm for the wall. But I must admit I laughed when I saw what trump did. Well played. Well played. Your turn pelosi.

That is a terrible take.

What was the impact of Pelosi's note? Nothing. What was the result of Trumps? A major security violation and cancellation of a meeting with our allies that is already a bit strained.

Totally. Pelosi's move was a bit of grandstanding but Trump can do it in the Oval if he wanted. He can send a letter. Trump's move was to try to put his thumb on the leader of the House. It is *authoritarianism*. No one should be celebrating it.

[Chrisoc13]

I mean...pelosi played political games. Political games were played back to her. Not sure what people were expecting or why people are trying to say what trump did was wrong while what pelosi did is ok. I'm not a trump fan at all but... Pelosi shouldn't have dished it out with her state of the union play if she couldn't take it.

All of that doesn't change that this whole shutdown is stupid, and certainly doesn't mean I'm for the wall. But I must admit I laughed when I saw what trump did. Well played. Well played. Your turn pelosi.

C'mon, man.

I could say the exact same thing. I rolled my eyes reading all of you acting like this was done horrendous move. You think pelosi wasn't just playing games? She was. With trump. It doesn't justify what he did but let's not act like she was innocent in all this. I truly hate that trump is our president, but I can see without blinders that pelosi played her hand and got outplayed.