Shutdown

[Skinypupy]

Yep, like I said they weren't actually willing to fund the wall.

Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union,” while discussing the government shutdown, White House budget director Mick Mulvaney said Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) offer on the border wall was only to “authorize” funding, not “appropriating” the money.

Mulvaney said, “The president is absolutely interested and wants to get DACA fixed but what with you’ve just read really bears a close read which is what the Senate minority leader said was to authorize $20 billion. I know it’s getting real deep down in the weeds. You can authorize left and right but it’s appropriating the money that makes the difference. He wants to authorize the wall to be built but doesn’t want to spend the money to get it built. There was money authorized in 2006 that Mr. Schumer voted for for a wall that still hasn’t been built because that money hasn’t been spent.”

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2018/01/ ... end-money/

I'm confused. Why would appropriations matter when Mexico is paying for it?

[hepcat]

Oh looky, a quote from Breitbart. Dig deeper, I’m sure you can find another from their site telling you that the Golden God Trump wants you to give him one of your kidneys and that Hillary Clinton is eating babies now to gain power.

[GreenGoo]

We've been over this. There is no way Breitbart can be treated as a legit site. Sure, maybe not 100% of their stories are wrong, but they have no issue making stuff up, and that's enough for me to dump them.

That you keep trying to use them is an example of why you're not worth talking to, about pretty much anything political.

[LordMortis]

How can they possibly be winning the messaging when they control all 3 branches?

cause they've got a new voicemail message?

"Thank you for calling the White House. Unfortunately, we cannot answer your call today because congressional Democrats are holding government funding —

including funding for our troops and other national security priorities — hostage to an unrelated immigration debate. Due to this obstruction, the government is shut down. In the meantime, you can leave a comment for the president at www.whitehouse.gov/contact. We look forward to taking your calls as soon as the government re-opens."

Every day.

[Tao]

That voicemail message seems fairly benign to me when there is a t.v. ad floating around that claims Democrats may be complicit in murder;

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-ca ... d=52491423

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... mplicit-ad

https://www.infowars.com/trump-campaign ... ve-new-ad/

This sort of demagoguery was attributed as a factor in Ed Gillespie's loss a few months back, but hey if at first you don't succeed.

[pr0ner]

Lindsay Graham threw Stephen Miller under the bus today.

[Skinypupy]

Good. Racist little shitweasel.

[Freyland]

"Outlier"... Is that what we are calling it these days?

[Grifman]

Heh, Senator and Iraq War veteran Tammy Duckworth laid into Trump today on the shutdown, calling him a five time draft dodger and “Cadet Bone Spurs”. Gotta love it!

[hepcat]

She’s great. It’s high time we call out the coward Trump for what he is.

[GreenGoo]

Remember Romney getting swiftboated? Remember when serving wasn't enough?

Now dodging the draft doesn't even make anyone blink.

And this shit had the absolute gall to complain about McCain's service?

Dark. Times.

[Daehawk]

I know we have a lot of fun in these threads and we do it to help keep us sane. But to those affected negatively by this shutdown...and whatever comes next out of this administration...Id like to say Im sorry about it. I hope the troubles are resolved quickly for your sakes.

[Holman]

Remember Romney getting swiftboated? Remember when serving wasn't enough?

???

[Carpet_pissr]

Well if you are going to own it why not?

If Trump is such a shrewd negotiator as he claims, then getting a deal done shouldn't be this difficult.

However, Trump sucks at negotiating and like a to reneg on deals, so here we are. The Nuclear Option should not be used because Trump sucks at his job.

Please recall that there *was* a deal, that the shithole shenanigans killed. There's exactly one person to blame for this shutdown, and it's Donald J Trump. He's not only unable to negotiate a resolution, but he actively killed the one that the adults in the room had already negotiated.

How did the deplorable 'shithole" comment torpedo the government funding deal? Those things seem completely unrelated to me. Or do you mean what he said at that same meeting? Ah, I bet that's it. 'Shithole' comment itself did not torpedo, correct?

[Holman]

Well if you are going to own it why not?

If Trump is such a shrewd negotiator as he claims, then getting a deal done shouldn't be this difficult.

However, Trump sucks at negotiating and like a to reneg on deals, so here we are. The Nuclear Option should not be used because Trump sucks at his job.

Please recall that there *was* a deal, that the shithole shenanigans killed. There's exactly one person to blame for this shutdown, and it's Donald J Trump. He's not only unable to negotiate a resolution, but he actively killed the one that the adults in the room had already negotiated.

How did the deplorable 'shithole" comment torpedo the government funding deal? Those things seem completely unrelated to me. Or do you mean what he said at that same meeting? Ah, I bet that's it. 'Shithole' comment itself did not torpedo, correct?

Graham and Durbin expected to meet with Trump alone to present the bipartisan deal. Cotton and Purdue got wind of it and met with Trump first, possibly involving Miller as well.

By the time Graham and Durbin arrived, the racists had worked Trump into a lather that killed the deal and resulted incidentally in the "shithole" remark.

[Alefroth]

Remember Romney getting swiftboated? Remember when serving wasn't enough?

???

Kerry.

[Zaxxon]

Well if you are going to own it why not?

If Trump is such a shrewd negotiator as he claims, then getting a deal done shouldn't be this difficult.

However, Trump sucks at negotiating and like a to reneg on deals, so here we are. The Nuclear Option should not be used because Trump sucks at his job.

Please recall that there *was* a deal, that the shithole shenanigans killed. There's exactly one person to blame for this shutdown, and it's Donald J Trump. He's not only unable to negotiate a resolution, but he actively killed the one that the adults in the room had already negotiated.

How did the deplorable 'shithole" comment torpedo the government funding deal? Those things seem completely unrelated to me. Or do you mean what he said at that same meeting? Ah, I bet that's it. 'Shithole' comment itself did not torpedo, correct?

Graham and Durbin expected to meet with Trump alone to present the bipartisan deal. Cotton and Purdue got wind of it and met with Trump first, possibly involving Miller as well.

By the time Graham and Durbin arrived, the racists had worked Trump into a lather that killed the deal and resulted incidentally in the "shithole" remark.

Yes.

[Holman]

Remember Romney getting swiftboated? Remember when serving wasn't enough?

???

Kerry.

Yes.

[Daehawk]

We pay these people grown up salaries why cant we get grown up representation?

[GreenGoo]

Remember Romney getting swiftboated? Remember when serving wasn't enough?

???

Kerry.

Yeah not sure what happened there, thanks.

[Rip]

Oh looky, a quote from Breitbart. Dig deeper, I’m sure you can find another from their site telling you that the Golden God Trump wants you to give him one of your kidneys and that Hillary Clinton is eating babies now to gain power.

It was said on the air on CNN.

[Holman]

Oh looky, a quote from Breitbart. Dig deeper, I’m sure you can find another from their site telling you that the Golden God Trump wants you to give him one of your kidneys and that Hillary Clinton is eating babies now to gain power.

It was said on the air on CNN.

...by Trump's budget director.

[hepcat]

Oh looky, a quote from Breitbart. Dig deeper, I’m sure you can find another from their site telling you that the Golden God Trump wants you to give him one of your kidneys and that Hillary Clinton is eating babies now to gain power.

It was said on the air on CNN.

CNN didn’t crawl into his lap and caress his cheek while grasping at their pearls at the same time. They were busy pointing out this is the same guy who said being in charge of a shutdown was “cool”.

In other news, that piece of filth Trump’s ad stating that dems are going to be responsible for any murder committed by an illegal immigrant is a new low for a man who already spends his time bottom feeding. He should just go back to banging porn stars, lusting after his daughter and pretending Barron is his kid.

[Combustible Lemur]

Oh looky, a quote from Breitbart. Dig deeper, I’m sure you can find another from their site telling you that the Golden God Trump wants you to give him one of your kidneys and that Hillary Clinton is eating babies now to gain power.

It was said on the air on CNN.

...by Trump's budget director.

Also the 20mil figure is just the most recent goalposts move from Trump after a year of increasing estimates and spurnings from Mexico. The 1.2,billion is the seed money quote Trump gave last spring that Schumer latched onto verified by Mulvaney. So while Schumer is playing word games as is part of negotiations and all are doing. Trump keeps moving his goalposts (the 20mil.) further and further into Miller land, who is a professed white nationalist. Enough so that Lindsey Graham threw Miller under the bus during this debacle. So, Rip, please continue devils advocating, it helps us all sharpen our wit, but keep in mind that the parsing you're currently doing is precisely what the extremists are banking on.. Even with the gross ideological differences between the parties, this was something (because all the aspects pole well across both aisles) that was working as originally intended. The fascist and Kelly are literally steering Trump into extremism at the moment. And McConnell and Ryan are too institutional to throw their own bullshit "teammate" under the bus. At least Graham the craven manipulating fucker that he is has been truthful lately. And generally does seem to lean center.

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[Combustible Lemur]

Jesus, I consume too much news.

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[Skinypupy]

Vote tomorrow at noon. Main issue seems to be that Dems don't trust GOP to keep discussions on DACA open if they agree to any sort of short-term deal.

Gee, I wonder why that could be.

[GreenGoo]

Vote tomorrow at noon. Main issue seems to be that Dems don't trust GOP to keep discussions on DACA open if they agree to any sort of short-term deal.

Gee, I wonder why that could be.

Hilarious. Who knew credibility might have a use during negotiations? This guy couldn't deal his way out of a wet paper bag. He's just so very terrible it's a wonder he's managed not to drown while taking a dump.

[Tao]

My biggest shocker over the last 2 days is that once again Rand Paul appears to be one of the most reasonable and rationale senators at the moment. I don't agree with him ideologically but at least he sounds sane. My biggest disappointment has been General Kelly, I really had high hopes that he would step forth as a voice of reason in the White House but he seems to have thrown in with Miller. Kelly is attributed with being a factor in ousting Gorka, I suppose Miller's version of whitewashing is more palatable.

[YellowKing]

Vote tomorrow at noon. Main issue seems to be that Dems don't trust GOP to keep discussions on DACA open if they agree to any sort of short-term deal.

At this point I'd almost rather Democrats shelve the DACA discussion and agree to the short-term deal. That takes away the argument that Democrats are "holding the country hostage" over immigration, and puts the ball back in the GOP's court. If Trump and the GOP want to renege on those discussions, then you bring up that broken promise every week until midterms.

I'm just afraid the Dems are losing the blame game right now (unfair as it may be).

[Jaymann]

Yes, heaven forbid they stand on principle on something all sane Americans support.

[em2nought]

Remember Romney getting swiftboated? Remember when serving wasn't enough?

???

Kerry.

Yeah not sure what happened there, thanks.

It's understandable, they're both just empty "designer" suits.

Now back to matters at hand.

[hepcat]

Yes, heaven forbid they stand on principle on something all sane Americans support.

The problem is that if they win this battle they may very well lose the war when it comes to public opinion. Trump is going to keep trying to further the narrative that the Dems care more about illegal aliens than they do Americans through his repugnant ads and tv appearances. His idiot supporters aren’t the ones that worry me on this, it’s the folks who might swallow his lies and change their opinions.

[msteelers]

Vote tomorrow at noon. Main issue seems to be that Dems don't trust GOP to keep discussions on DACA open if they agree to any sort of short-term deal.

At this point I'd almost rather Democrats shelve the DACA discussion and agree to the short-term deal. That takes away the argument that Democrats are "holding the country hostage" over immigration, and puts the ball back in the GOP's court. If Trump and the GOP want to renege on those discussions, then you bring up that broken promise every week until midterms.

I'm just afraid the Dems are losing the blame game right now (unfair as it may be).

Fixing DACA is the right thing to do, and what the Democrats are doing is the best way to make that happen. The GOP have proven themselves to be bad faith negotiators. I'd rather lose in the polls doing what is right.

[malchior]

Vote tomorrow at noon. Main issue seems to be that Dems don't trust GOP to keep discussions on DACA open if they agree to any sort of short-term deal.

At this point I'd almost rather Democrats shelve the DACA discussion and agree to the short-term deal. That takes away the argument that Democrats are "holding the country hostage" over immigration, and puts the ball back in the GOP's court. If Trump and the GOP want to renege on those discussions, then you bring up that broken promise every week until midterms.

I'm just afraid the Dems are losing the blame game right now (unfair as it may be).

Fixing DACA is the right thing to do, and what the Democrats are doing is the best way to make that happen. The GOP have proven themselves to be bad faith negotiators. I'd rather lose in the polls doing what is right.

Exactly. Poll chasing is a low return game this far out. Additionally, the Republicans own messaging because the media boosts their signal pretty much no matter what hate they spew. That is out of the Dems hands. Making decisions afraid of Republican attacks allows the Republicans to control their agenda.

[hepcat]

Even if it means risking the loss of the momentum we’ve seen building up of Republican losses in races they normally win?

If Dems can’t regain more power, Trump’s agenda is only going to get more support from a GOP heavy Washington.

[malchior]

Even if it means risking the loss of the momentum we’ve seen building up of Republican losses in races they normally win?

If Dems can’t regain more power, Trump’s agenda is only going to get more support from a GOP heavy Washington.

What is the level of risk? The fear of doing anything may be more of a problem than anything with the Dems. Stand up - be bold - have a vision. At least try. It is better than passively hoping the Republicans suddenly become "fair" or the media stops being terrible.

[msteelers]

Even if it means risking the loss of the momentum we’ve seen building up of Republican losses in races they normally win?

If Dems can’t regain more power, Trump’s agenda is only going to get more support from a GOP heavy Washington.

Republicans owned the last shutdown, and it didn't hurt them at all in the following elections. Besides that, the truth is on the Democrats side here. They have a bipartisan deal in place, but the President keeps waffling on what he wants. First it was "send me any deal and I'll take the heat". Then he walked away from the bipartisan deal because the white nationalists in his cabinet whispered in his ear. They said the deal didn't have any money for Trump's wall, but when Schumer agreed to putting billions of dollars into the deal for the wall Trump STILL refused. There were sound bytes last week of McConnell pleading with the President to "tell us what you want".

But even if the Democrats lose the messaging I still think they need to stick to their guns here. I would rather lose doing the right thing, rather than win the message and not get anything done.

[Max Peck]

A FiveThirtyEight chat: What Does The Shutdown Mean For Democrats And Immigration?

Welcome to a special FiveThirtyEight politics chat on the occasion of the government shutdown! We’re going to talk about what this means for Democrats, Trump and immigration because, with the government not functioning, what else is there to do? Just kidding, that’s the case every day and we find plenty of other things to do. But this is what Washington wants us to pay attention to, so we’re complying.
Okay, let’s get started.

Ahem.

So, the Democrats finally did it. They took a stand on an issue that shut down the government, saying they wouldn’t approve a federal funding bill if it didn’t include protections for undocumented immigrants brought to the U.S. as children (aka DACA, after the Obama-era program Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals). Do you think that was a politically smart idea?

[Fitzy]

Sticking to their guns is why we have a dysfunctional government.

All sides share blame in this shutdown. Equally.

However, the I still think the Democrats are going to take more of the blame due to the hot potato theory. They voted the CR down, therefore they hold the potato. A large number of people aren't going to look past that. It's a simple and easy way to see the shutdown and requires no extra work.

[Skinypupy]

My guess is that they take the short-term deal today (through Feb 8, from what I've heard) , with the promise that DACA will be addressed. This staves off a few of the ignorant howler monkeys.

Since they are 100% bad faith negotiators, the GOP then will steadfastly refuse to budge or even discuss it, or they will move the goalposts with some other ridiculous demand. And we'll end up back here in a couple weeks.