Fallout 4

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Blackhawk
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Re: Fallout 4

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Max Peck wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:28 pm F4 is scheduled to get a new patch on 25 April 2024.

Fallout 4 is Getting Free Updates
Bethesda Game Studios is releasing a free Fallout 4 update for download on Xbox Series X|S and PlayStation 5.
Ugh.

Every mod on the Nexus will have just broken, and most of their authors have retired, so they'll never be updated. Skyrim never quite recovered from the surprise update they threw in there a while back.

If you're running a modded copy of the game, back up your .exe file, now.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Are we placing bets on what it does to mods? :wink:

Edit: That's what I get for not checking that I was on the last post. I figured BH would beat me to it. And he did.

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Re: Fallout 4

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That's OK. I messed up the formatting when I added the new page context quote.

I'm actually installing now, as I was wanting to play in the relatively near future.

The nice thing about Bethesda games is that you can stop them from updating. Steam doesn't allow you to turn off updates for games (which can be a massive pain in the ass), but you can set it to 'only update when I launch.' Since practically all Bethesda mod setups use a mod manager and launch via a script extender, which bypasses the Bethesda launcher, the game, despite running in Steam, is never 'launched' via Steam, so it never triggers the update.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Blackhawk wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:01 pm The nice thing about Bethesda games is that you can stop them from updating. Steam doesn't allow you to turn off updates for games (which can be a massive pain in the ass), but you can set it to 'only update when I launch.' Since practically all Bethesda mod setups use a mod manager and launch via a script extender, which bypasses the Bethesda launcher, the game, despite running in Steam, is never 'launched' via Steam, so it never triggers the update.
Thanks! I'd just gone to turn off updates. I thought you could. I didn't think about the fact that I usually use a launcher.

In my case, I have a game of FO4:VR set up (though it seems to have stopped working properly). And I wouldn't be surprised to find that they screwed it up too.

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Re: Fallout 4

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Paradox uses Steam's support for beta versions to allow you to install older iterations of their games, specificially to support mods that rely on specific versions IIRC. No such love from Bethesda, though.
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Re: Fallout 4

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TheMix wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:46 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 4:01 pm The nice thing about Bethesda games is that you can stop them from updating. Steam doesn't allow you to turn off updates for games (which can be a massive pain in the ass), but you can set it to 'only update when I launch.' Since practically all Bethesda mod setups use a mod manager and launch via a script extender, which bypasses the Bethesda launcher, the game, despite running in Steam, is never 'launched' via Steam, so it never triggers the update.
Thanks! I'd just gone to turn off updates. I thought you could. I didn't think about the fact that I usually use a launcher.

In my case, I have a game of FO4:VR set up (though it seems to have stopped working properly). And I wouldn't be surprised to find that they screwed it up too.
They haven't touched FO4VR since right after it launched. They abandoned it broken (it's one of the thorns responsible for leaving me as a fan of Elder Scrolls and Fallout, but fairly anti-Bethesda.) The bigger potential issue is that those FO4 mods that are compatible with it could be updated in a manner that makes them incompatible, but existing installs wouldn't be affected by that, and newer installs could always download the older version of the mod.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Yargh - what about FO3? I never finished it and would like to correct that. Anyone have any suggestions about best way to play it in 2024?
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Re: Fallout 4

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:46 pm Yargh - what about FO3? I never finished it and would like to correct that. Anyone have any suggestions about best way to play it in 2024?
How do you feel about Fallout: New Vegas?

If your answer is positive, I'd recommend A Tale of Two Wastelands. It combines the two games by porting FO3 into NV. They're still separate and each can be played individually, but it's designed with the intention that you play them both with the same character, and balanced with that in mind (when you decide to go to Vegas, Benny still shoots you in the head, so your memory and gear are gone, and you have to regain both over the course of it.) It's popular, well written, relatively easy to install, and rock-solid (I'm playing it now, and have been off and on for about a year and a half.)

Gameplay wise, the reason to go this route is that the New Vegas version of the engine was more stable, and the game had more functionality than the FO3 version. By playing FO3 in the New Vegas engine, you get all of the enhancements.

The setup takes a little while, but it's straightforward, well documented, and well supported. Just make sure you follow all of the steps (including the clean install!)
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Re: Fallout 4

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Smoove_B wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:44 pm Awesome. I can delay my revisit for a few more weeks then. :)
After watching the first episode of the tv show, I'm getting the itch. A new patch makes it itch all the more.
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:54 pm
How do you feel about Fallout: New Vegas?

If your answer is positive, I'd recommend A Tale of Two Wastelands.
That's tempting, too.

I still have FO4 installed, with a bunch of mods that they are probably going to break. I don't reckon I can just launch it and play. Since FO3/NV aren't installed, I'd be starting fresh with that. I like the pausable combat in the older games better, but really enjoy the Boston setting in FO4. Don't like crafting or building settlements, but that's largely optional.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Kraken wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 9:28 pm I still have FO4 installed, with a bunch of mods that they are probably going to break. I don't reckon I can just launch it and play. Since FO3/NV aren't installed, I'd be starting fresh with that. I like the pausable combat in the older games better, but really enjoy the Boston setting in FO4. Don't like crafting or building settlements, but that's largely optional.
As I mentioned above, the chances are that you're not launching it through Steam. You're probably launching it through f4se_loader.exe (F4SE = Fallout 4 Script Extender.) Just go into Steam, right-click Fallout 4 / Properties / Updates and set it to, "Only update this game when I launch it." If you want to play it super safe, rename Fallout4Launcher.exe in the game's root folder so you don't launch it that way accidentally. As long as you don't launch it through Steam, Steam will never know to update it - and Steam only tracks the launcher, not the actual game executable.

Because remember, if you have a save with mods, and then those mods don't work or are absent, you're looking at serious instability or a corrupted save - possibly corrupted in a way that you won't even know about for 20 more hours until it starts to crash every few minutes due to runaway scripts.

Or it could work fine. It all depends on which mods you have installed and how they're written. It's still better to be safe.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Blackhawk wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:54 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Apr 11, 2024 8:46 pm Yargh - what about FO3? I never finished it and would like to correct that. Anyone have any suggestions about best way to play it in 2024?
How do you feel about Fallout: New Vegas?

If your answer is positive, I'd recommend A Tale of Two Wastelands. It combines the two games by porting FO3 into NV. They're still separate and each can be played individually, but it's designed with the intention that you play them both with the same character, and balanced with that in mind (when you decide to go to Vegas, Benny still shoots you in the head, so your memory and gear are gone, and you have to regain both over the course of it.) It's popular, well written, relatively easy to install, and rock-solid (I'm playing it now, and have been off and on for about a year and a half.)

Gameplay wise, the reason to go this route is that the New Vegas version of the engine was more stable, and the game had more functionality than the FO3 version. By playing FO3 in the New Vegas engine, you get all of the enhancements.

The setup takes a little while, but it's straightforward, well documented, and well supported. Just make sure you follow all of the steps (including the clean install!)
Awesome! Thanks, I will do this.

Downsides to this vs vanilla/separate?

If it helps I never played New Vegas.
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Re: Fallout 4

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I've actually been playing a FO4 game for the past couple of weeks using the Sim Settlements 2 mod. I don't normally play any games with mods, I really prefer the unadulterated versions of the games, but I saw a write up of SS2 and gave it a try. I'm actually more into the campaign that comes with it than the actual building mechanic of placing a plot and letting your settlers build out the actual buildings.
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Re: Fallout 4

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/edit - moved this reply to the FO3 thread. Having people play both games at the same time would make combining the two confusing.

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Re: Fallout 4

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hentzau wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:38 am I've actually been playing a FO4 game for the past couple of weeks using the Sim Settlements 2 mod. I don't normally play any games with mods, I really prefer the unadulterated versions of the games, but I saw a write up of SS2 and gave it a try. I'm actually more into the campaign that comes with it than the actual building mechanic of placing a plot and letting your settlers build out the actual buildings.
I've played SS2. It's a fun way to handle the settlement system, letting you have full settlements everywhere without actually having to build them yourself (unless you want to.) For those who aren't familiar, it lets you either:

A) Build settlements the old-fashioned wasy
B) Lay out settlements like Sim City (build residential here, build agriculture there)
C) Push a button and let the settlers build it all themselves from a pre-designed plan. You just assign someone as mayor, set it to automated, and wander off looking for Shaun getting sidetracked by bullshit.*

*the wasteland's golden rule.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Shawn? Who's that?

:D

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Re: Fallout 4

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Eh, I haven't seen him in so long that I forgot how to spell his name.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Blackhawk wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:32 pm Eh, I haven't seen him in so long that I forgot how to spell his name.
If you hadn't had it in your comment, I probably would have gone with "Sean". And I wasn't actually calling you out on that. It was just a joke about how little I cared about finding him when I played. A joke that apparently didn't work. :(

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Re: Fallout 4

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TheMix wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:13 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 12:32 pm Eh, I haven't seen him in so long that I forgot how to spell his name.
If you hadn't had it in your comment, I probably would have gone with "Sean". And I wasn't actually calling you out on that. It was just a joke about how little I cared about finding him when I played. A joke that apparently didn't work. :(
Oh, it worked.i just thought it was a different joke!
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Re: Fallout 4

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:handgestures-thumbupleft:

I wasn't sure. I didn't want you to think that I was correcting your spelling. :D

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Re: Fallout 4

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I haven't played F4 since 2019, but for some reason I felt like reinstalling it and taking it out for a spin. Annoyingly, the game is ignoring keyboard input in menus, even though I don't have a game controller connected to my PC. I tried setting bGamepadEnable=0 in Fallout4Prefs.ini but while that does activate a cursor in the menus, it doesn't fix the issue of the actual keyboard input being ignored, so while I can navigate the menus I can't do things like skip the intro cut scene. The actual controls in the game seem to work normally aside from the weirdness in the menus.

Any suggestions on to how to sort this out?
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Re: Fallout 4

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Is it modded? Was it a clean install (as in, did you delete the old directories and files?)
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Re: Fallout 4

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It wasn't a "clean" install in that I didn't scrub any files that Steam left behind when I uninstalled it previously. I've never modded it, so I didn't see any need to worry about residual data.

I took another look at the .ini file and found a second gamepad-related variable (bGamePadRumble) that was enabled by default and set that to 0 as well. I don't know if that is what sorted it out, or if the problem just decided to clear up "on its own" (as computer problems tend to do as soon as you submit a tech support ticket) but the menus are recognizing the keyboard again. Hopefully they decide to keep working at least long enough for me to get through character creation. :lol:

Now I just need to figure out the best fit for Lucy's SPECIAL score...
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Re: Fallout 4

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I was going to suggest backing up the .ini files, then deleting them and letting the game recreate them from scratch. It shows you whether the problem is a setting or something else. But you got it sorted, so problem solved.

One other thing when troubleshooting: There are two sets of .ini files, one in the game's install folder, and one in Documents\My games\Fallout4. You want to fiddle with the ones in Documents, not the install folder.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Max Peck wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2024 5:56 pm Now I just need to figure out the best fit for Lucy's SPECIAL score...
According to the internet...
According to Fallout Shelter, Lucy has 4 Strength, 7 Perception, 6 Endurance, 5 Charisma, 6 Intelligence, 5 Agility, and 7 Luck.
I guess that's aspirational. Given 28 points to start, I'm going with:
  • S - 2
  • P - 6
  • E - 4
  • C - 3
  • I - 4
  • A - 3
  • L - 6
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Re: Fallout 4

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FYi the current gen patch finally has a release date of April 25th. I've been waiting to replay this on the PS5, so it looks like it's almost time. Im not sure if rhe patch just updates the Ps4 version or if it gives you a proper PS5 version.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Scraper wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:04 pm FYi the current gen patch finally has a release date of April 25th. I've been waiting to replay this on the PS5, so it looks like it's almost time. Im not sure if rhe patch just updates the Ps4 version or if it gives you a proper PS5 version.
The announcement from Bethesda said that it will be PS5-native.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Remembered last night why I stopped playing. Hit a few crash bugs, likely due to mods. While I love the ability to go crazy building bases, it’s time to just play through the story without eventually hitting bugs. Reinstalling.
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Re: Fallout 4

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Did you take the triangles of death into account when going crazy and building bases? That's a leading cause of death among those suffering from base craziness.

In other words, there are certain combinations of locations that should not be built up simultaneously, as they can break the game and cause crashes - like building Sanctuary, Red Rocket, and the Abernathy Farm all at the same time.
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Re: Fallout 4

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You all must use a lot of mods all at once. So far I've limited myself to 3-4. And they are rather overwhelming.
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Re: Fallout 4

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The triangles of death are a problem from the base game.

It's a limitation of the engine - the game engine can only process things so fast, and how fast is limited by the engine, not your hardware (it's the same limitation that cause physics explosions if you have too high of a framerate.) If it can process X number of items per tick, and you have it trying to process more than X, then the extra instructions get backed up - they essentially form a line and have to wait to be processed. Then the next second it happens again, then again, then again, and all of those backed up instructions start to fill up your system memory (which, again, is limited by the engine, not your installed RAM.) The memory starts to fill up, the framerate plummets, everything slows down, and the game begins processing those instructions even slower, which slows it down more, which backs it up more, which... Well, after a very, very small amount of time the memory is gone, the instructions are lined up around the block, and you're back at the desktop, wondering where the game went.

Create a situation where more things are happening at once than the game can process, things back up, and you crash. Bethesda, in their finite wisdom, put certain combinations of settlements too close to each other, with the result that there are locations where you can stand and have all three loaded in at once. If all three are heavily built or have large populations this overwhelms the scripting engine, and you're back at the desktop.

Two examples off the top of my head are the Sanctuary bridge (Sanctuary, Abernathy, and Red Rocket are all loaded), and the area around Spectacle Island, The Castle, and Warwick Homestead.

Bonus Bethesda knowledge: This is the same engine weakness that makes uninstalling mods so risky, and can result in save corruption. If a mod has a script running and you remove the mod, the script can keep running - it's in your save file - but with the mod gone, there's nothing to tell it to stop. Now consider that one mod can have gazillions of scripts. You are 10 hours in, uninstall a couple of mods, and you get a dozen scripts stuck running in your save. Ten hours later you uninstall a couple more, or something glitches out and leaves one running. At 40 hours you start crashing every five minutes because of the buildup, and try to figure out why, but the cause was something you did two weeks before and can't undo.

Note that this flaw is intact in Starfield, too.
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by dbt1949 »

I don't ever remember that particular problem. It may have happened but I don't remember it. You guys probably play it more than me. Course I do have over 1800 hours in it.
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Re: Fallout 4

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It's just one example of what can go wrong, and it requires specific conditions (building up certain portions of all three with significant populations.)

The rest is just for the curious.

Want another fun one? If your settlement consists of multiple cells (invisible loading 'grids'), and you have things built in a certain order, your settlements can get... weird. Sanctuary is an easy example again, due to its size.

Cells: All ES/FO (plus Starfield) games from Morrowind on are built in a grid. Think of it as graph paper. You're standing in one square, and the game loads X number of squares around you. Cross into the next square, it unloads a row behind you and loads a new row in front of you. It's like always walking in the center of a giant spotlight that moves when you do. Those who remember playing Morrowind on the hardware at the time may remember that when you were traveling, it would pause for a couple of seconds every few minutes. That was you crossing a grid line and waiting while it loaded/unloaded the area. Loaded areas have everything - all the creatures, all the scripted events, everything that needs kept track of, etc, active. Unloaded areas are just empty terrain. Example of the full Fallout 4 map, showing the grids, spoilered for size:
Spoiler:
Image
Here's how it loads the squares, if you have the number set to nine.

You're standing here. The square you're in, plus the squares around you (nine total) are fully loaded - and outlined in red. Everything in them is active and loaded. Everything outside of them - like the edge of the city to the north - is inactive.

Image

You walk north. When you cross the grid line, the squares in front of you, with all of the buildings, get loaded (green +) and everything related to them becomes active. The squares behind you, with the other buildings to the south, get unloaded and all of their processes go into standby mode (red hatch marks.)

Image

That's the whole system.

Here's the Sanctuary triangle of death. The three houses are Sanctuary, Red Rocket, and Abernathy Farm. In certain locations, they all become active, as shown.

Image

If they're all fleshed out with high population (let's say your character has a Charisma of 8, giving you a max of 18 settlers), then standing there means that instead of 18 settlers, the game is keeping track of 54 of them, plus all of the scripts, plus all of the turrets, and farms, and production facilities, and bloatflies, and molerats, and...

This gets worse if you increase the build limit or have mods with additional scripts. As a general rule, only build two of those three settlements, and two of the Castle/Spectacle Island/Warwick set.

Anyway, I mentioned something about weird things that happen in multi-cell settlements. Here's Sanctuary.

Image

You have most of your defenses - turrets and spotlights - by the bridge (T = turrets), your farms up by the cul-de-sac (F = farms), and the G is your generators.

You approach from the south to the point in the picture. Guess what - all of your turrets and spotlights just failed. Why? Because your generators haven't loaded in. The turrets don't have power. Cross the grid to the north and the generators will load in, but your defenses may or may not start functioning. A lot of the time you'll have spotlights, for instance, just stop working forever until you scrap them and rebuild them. Also, if you pull up your Pip-Boy and check the settlement, it may show that your settlers are starving. Why? Because you haven't loaded any farms. What's worse is that if you turn around and leave, the game thinks that's the actual state of Sanctuary - settlers, but no food - and you'll start to lose population until you go all the way into town and let it load everything properly.

Now, looking at that same picture, pass by Sanctuary to the northeast without going all the way in. You just loaded your generators and farms. Yay. But you're just passing by. Then, out of the blue, you start getting notifications about Sanctuary being under attack, and by the time you make it back, half of your stuff is damaged. But you have Sanctuary so well defended that it never gets attacked! Why did you get stomped?

Because you loaded in all of your resources, but none of your defenses. If your resources are higher than your defenses, you get attacked.

And note that everything I showed here is present in the base game. Mods aren't a factor (some may make it worse, but others may make it better.)

When I said in the Starfield thread that the engine was deeply flawed and really needs to be replaced, I wasn't kidding.
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by Smoove_B »

So this isn't something that's going to be addressed when they release the big update in a few weeks, eh?
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by Blackhawk »

Not unless they completely replace the engine and/or the Papyrus scripting language.

At the end of the day, the update is Bethesda trying to drum up sales on the newer platforms in order to take advantage of the popularity of the show. I have a feeling that they saw the influx of potential customers coming and went searching for things to 'fix' as a way to bring people in. The biggest bugs and problems simply aren't fixable, as they're built in to the engine.
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by Smoove_B »

Well, as someone that's never actually finished Fallout 4, they got me. I'm not a power player and I'm not going to be messing around with mods, so I guess I have that going for me. Here's hoping it's not any...worse?

Ugh.
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by Octavious »

Wabberjack ftw. I may just load it up again, but I've been playout fallout 76 and it's been pretty fun without having to mess with anything, but I also make poor choices. :lol:
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by Tampa_Gamer »

I wonder if the patch will temporarily delay the release of the Fallout London mod later this month? Looking forward to playing that one given all the focus on Fallout 4/Amazon series.

https://fallout4london.com/
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by Blackhawk »

Octavious wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:04 am Wabberjack ftw. I may just load it up again, but I've been playout fallout 76 and it's been pretty fun without having to mess with anything, but I also make poor choices. :lol:
+1. If you don't want to mess with modding, Wabbajack is the way to go.

And even if you're not interested in modding, I'd still suggest the unofficial patch:

Unofficial Patch

You might also want the achievement re-enabler:

Achievements

And if you're shopping for mods, I strongly advise against any variant of 'Scrap Anything' (anything that allows you to scrap various bits of trash/empty buildings, etc.) They are game-breakers, and have been since day one.

If you want some recommendations for a few great mods, here:

Armorsmith Extended

Full Dialogue Interface

This series: FallUI Series
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by Smoove_B »

Tampa_Gamer wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2024 9:06 am I wonder if the patch will temporarily delay the release of the Fallout London mod later this month? Looking forward to playing that one given all the focus on Fallout 4/Amazon series.

https://fallout4london.com/
It will:
Fallout: London is an ambitious project, a Fallout 4 overhaul set it what probably isn't be a "green and pleasant land" in the post-apocalyptic times. I mean, it might still be green but only because it's glowing. It's a big project, one that will feature Baldur's Gate 3 voice actor Neil Newbon, but it's had to push its planned April 23 release date back due to Fallout 4's next-gen update, which is set to go live on April 25.

As players of Skyrim Special Edition will know, updates for Bethesda's RPGs inevitably break the mods many players rely on, meaning modders have to scramble to update their work to make it compatible with a new executable. "We've just been tweaking and testing to get things as stable as we can for you all in time for that release," says project lead Dean Carter, "But with the new update dropping just 48 hours later, the past four years of our work stand to just simply break."
Note:
It's not all bad news. "On the technical front, being able to play Fallout: London with the new potential engine improvements and the performance upgrades is fantastic," Carter says. "It's gonna mean that we can push the engine even harder than we've already pushed it, so we're gonna get these great quality-of-life improvements all in the mod."

Carter finishes by explaining that the team can no longer promise a specific release date for Fallout London. "As soon as we've fixed it, it'll drop," he says, before sighing, "but yeah, Bethesda. Bethesda never changes."
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Re: Fallout 4

Post by $iljanus »

After watching a few episodes of the series I started another playthrough of Fallout 4. Since I’m playing on a PS5 I’m excited about a native PS5 version coming out but more excited about an Enclave storyline being added. Looking forward to killing them and farming their gear along with whatever associated quests that may come my way.

Kinda nice playing on the console. It had its share of bugs but no mods to complicate things and my first run through the Boston area went relatively smoothly. Fallout Lexington is sure different from my town of Lexington. I guess our town council decided to support development after all with the urban development and huge car manufacturing plant next to the town. :lol:
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