Ukraine

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Kraken
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Kraken »

“No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country."
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Kurth
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Kurth »

Kraken wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:06 pm “No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country."
I read this morning in the NYT that our NATO allies have credible intel that Putin is willing to accept 300,000 Russian casualties to win this war. His perspective: He believes Russia is much more willing to accept losses on this kind of scale than the West, and 300K is nothing compared to the 27M Russians killed in WW2.

That is some grim shit right there.
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LordMortis
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LordMortis »

How many have they lost so far? What do you suppose that is doing to their economy? I mean if "500,000 worker" COVID deaths are giving us 7-9% wage inflation and we still have a "worker shortage" even as we automate more and more, how is Russia dealing with killing off their young able men for Putin's arrogance?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Kurth wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:18 pm
Kraken wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 4:06 pm “No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country."
I read this morning in the NYT that our NATO allies have credible intel that Putin is willing to accept 300,000 Russian casualties to win this war. His perspective: He believes Russia is much more willing to accept losses on this kind of scale than the West, and 300K is nothing compared to the 27M Russians killed in WW2.
"The West" isn't taking any casualties, though. It's a matter of how much blood Ukraine is willing to shed in order to continue existing. If Western support for Ukraine weakens, it won't be due to mounting casualties, it'll be due to politics and/or economics.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Zarathud »

Russian approach to life is bleak. As long as it happens to someone else, no big deal. When it happens to you, that’s just hard life in Mother Russia.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Kraken »

LordMortis wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:32 pm How many have they lost so far?
Approx. 100,000, which is about the same as Ukraine's losses.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Russia has more grist for the mill. Or meat for the grinder.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

Its like the Earth is an anthill and we are the ants.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:24 pm
LordMortis wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 1:32 pm How many have they lost so far?
Approx. 100,000, which is about the same as Ukraine's losses.
Still, their losses are understood at home as a confusing, politically murky waste, while Ukrainian losses are understood domestically as unambiguous heroes.

In addition, every Russian vehicle loss is replaced by a 1960s or 70s era substitute, while Ukrainian vehicles are replaced by 1990s or 2000s NATO equipment.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Pyperkub »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:27 pm Russia has more grist for the mill. Or meat for the grinder.
But it was the instigator of a land war in Asia! ;)

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:14 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:27 pm Russia has more grist for the mill. Or meat for the grinder.
But it was the instigator of a land war in Asia! ;)

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Ukraine is not part of Asia.
Pretty sure it squarely falls into Europe, where in which someone has declared that to be, North of the Mediterranean and Black Sea and West of the Ural mountains.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Pyperkub »

Unagi wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:21 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:14 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:27 pm Russia has more grist for the mill. Or meat for the grinder.
But it was the instigator of a land war in Asia! ;)

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Ukraine is not part of Asia.
Pretty sure it squarely falls into Europe, where in which someone has declared that to be, North of the Mediterranean and Black Sea and West of the Ural mountains.
Depends on your definition and time period - per Herodotus era, Scythia (which contained Ukraine/Crimea) was definitely Central/Western "Asia"). So, if you want to be a "classic" blunder, you gotta go back into history ;)

And, given that Europe isn't really a continent, and a lot of land wars there have been blunders... ;)
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Alefroth »

Even Moscow is in Europe.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Holman »

Just don't drink the iocane powder tea near a third- or higher-floor Moscow window.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:33 pm
Unagi wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 9:21 pm
Pyperkub wrote: Mon Dec 19, 2022 8:14 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 3:27 pm Russia has more grist for the mill. Or meat for the grinder.
But it was the instigator of a land war in Asia! ;)

Image
Ukraine is not part of Asia.
Pretty sure it squarely falls into Europe, where in which someone has declared that to be, North of the Mediterranean and Black Sea and West of the Ural mountains.
Depends on your definition and time period - per Herodotus era, Scythia (which contained Ukraine/Crimea) was definitely Central/Western "Asia"). So, if you want to be a "classic" blunder, you gotta go back into history ;)

And, given that Europe isn't really a continent, and a lot of land wars there have been blunders... ;)
Europe is fairly artificial as a continent, but within how Europe is defined (west of the Urals) it's clearly Europe. Plus, you know, the whole "Ukraine is part of Europe" was a central emphasis of the Maidan Revolution.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Grifman »

Holy crap:

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

I feel that's super important for him to do. Those guys deserve his special attention, and their morale is critical to Zelensky.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

While meeting with Biden Zelenskyy gave Biden a gift from a Ukrainian HIMARS battery Captain. It was the Captain's own medal he had been awarded . He also send him a personal letter. Wow.

As someone else said Im glad it wasn't the former president sitting there hurting everyone else and claiming it was all him.

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Skinypupy »

He gave one hell of a speech tonight. I was ready to run through a wall for him by the end.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Indeed. It's great to see that sort of leadership is still possible.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 9:40 pm He gave one hell of a speech tonight. I was ready to run through a wall for him by the end.
Was this on network television? I tried to find it around 8 but couldn't. Though admittedly I only tried for like 5 minutes before my son interrupted my efforts.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Fox had it live.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Ugh. Some hard-right pundits and GOP members of Congress actually complained about some idiotic notion that Zelensky showed disrespect by not wearing a suit to the White House or his address to Congress. They also argue that Biden and Pelosi et. al. are chumps for not turning him away at the gate. Talk about showing us how unserious and petty and immemorable these people are. They deserve to be forgotten by time. They are literally hot air in the form of humans. A man from another time, another era came here and reminded us how empty, shallow, silly, and ridiculous our politics have become.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Skinypupy »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 1:48 am Fox had it live.
My local Fox affiliate did not.

NBC also cut away before it ended, but that may have been a local decision, as it jumped to the local news.

CBS showed the whole thing.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LordMortis »

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 10:26 am NBC also cut away before it ended, but that may have been a local decision, as it jumped to the local news.
As did CNBC. I don't know why.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Zaxxon »

malchior wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:40 am Ugh. Some hard-right pundits and GOP members of Congress actually complained about some idiotic notion that Zelensky showed disrespect by not wearing a suit to the White House or his address to Congress.
These are the 'Let's Go Brandon' folks, who universally display class and respect for the office of the White House, yes?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by paulbaxter »

Would it have killed the Speaker of the House to actually learn his first name, or even to correctly say the name of his country???

Great speech though.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Pyperkub »

Update on the Russian murder of civilians squads...
The Times identified the 234th Regiment, a paratrooper unit based in the city of Pskov in western Russia, as the main culprit in the Yablunska Street killings. Airborne units like this are considered some of the best trained and equipped in the Russian military. Evidence of the 234th’s involvement includes military equipment, uniform badges, radio chatter and packing slips on munition crates. Military experts from Janes and the Institute for the Study of War provided insights about Russian armored vehicles and their markings as well as tactical operations seen in the visual evidence.
Phone Records as Digital Fingerprints

Residents in Bucha said that when Russian soldiers interrogated them, they often seized their phones. Suspecting the soldiers may also have taken the phones of victims, our reporters obtained from Ukrainian authorities a database of all calls and messages placed from the Bucha region to Russia during March. As we interviewed victims’ relatives, we collected their phone numbers and checked if they were in the database. A chilling pattern emerged: soldiers routinely used the phones of victims to call home to Russia, often only hours after they were killed.

By analyzing the phone numbers dialed by Russian soldiers and uncovering social media profiles associated with their family members, The Times confirmed the identity of two dozen paratroopers as members of the 234th Regiment. In many cases, we interviewed their relatives and spoke to some of the soldiers themselves, two of whom confirmed they were in the 234th and served in Bucha. We cross-referenced our findings with personal data sourced from leaked and official Russian databases provided by the Center for Advanced Defense Studies, a Washington, D.C., nonprofit group focused on global security.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

'We will find you:' Russians hunt down Ukrainians on lists
KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Three days after the first Russian bombs struck Ukraine, Andrii Kuprash, the head of a village north of Kyiv, walked into a forest near his home and began to dig. He didn’t stop until he had carved out a shallow pit, big enough for a man like him. It was his just-in-case, a place to lie low if he needed.

He covered it with branches and went back home.

A week later, Kuprash got a call around 8 a.m. from an unknown number. A man speaking Russian asked if he was the village head. Something was amiss.

“No, you’ve got the wrong number,” Kuprash lied. “We will find you anyway,” the man responded. “It’s better to cooperate with us.’” Kuprash grabbed some camping kit and his warmest coat and headed for his hole in the woods.

Kuprash — and others The Associated Press spoke with — had been quietly warned that they were targets for advancing Russian forces. Word went round in circles of influential Ukrainians: Don’t sleep in your own home. Get rid of your phone. Get out of Ukraine.

The hunt was on.

In a deliberate, widespread campaign, Russian forces systematically targeted influential Ukrainians, nationally and locally, to neutralize resistance through detention, torture and executions, an Associated Press investigation has found. The strategy appears to violate the laws of war and could help build a case for genocide.

Russian troops hunted Ukrainians by name, using lists prepared with the help of their intelligence services. In the crosshairs were government officials, journalists, activists, veterans, religious leaders and lawyers.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LordMortis »

Head of the snake. Putin and his top military, and I mean more than five or six tip top, all need to be deposed and tried and held accountable for all of their military. His oligarchs should be tried as well and might well need to be held accountable. His mercenary forces need to be given no quarter any where. That we (the US) have government officials that act against Zylenski and his Ukraine is ridonculous. Fox News should be so embarrassed of their broadcasts that the cable companies should debate removing them, and at the very least cut their Fox News contract renewals until their Russian Sympathizer show hosts are terminated.

I suppose this is evidence of why it's good I don't run things. I'd be investigating the whole lot of Congress who've spent time in Russia during the Obama and especially the TFG eras.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Defiant »

Ukrainian lawmakers recently passed a bill that would ban hate speech and incitement based on sexual orientation and gender identity. The media regulation bill was unanimously approved on December 15.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/12/ukr ... ech-media/
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Holman »

Pyperkub wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:47 pm Update on the Russian murder of civilians squads...
The Times identified the 234th Regiment, a paratrooper unit based in the city of Pskov in western Russia, as the main culprit in the Yablunska Street killings. [...]
It's known that Soviet and now Russian airborne forces aren't really parallel to Western airborne. While ours are trained to be top-of-the-line soldiers capable of independent action and small-unit initiative, the role of Russian paras has always been to suppress domestic (or client-state) unrest. I've seen them described as "flying riot police." They're thugs and goons, and their leadership is kept close to the Kremlin itself in loyalty.

Killing civilians is unsurprisingly their thing.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Damn
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

Aww love the Stalker games. Dumb damn war.


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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

2nd attack on Engles base deep in Russia kills 3 and wounds others.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/26/ukraine ... ussia.html
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

Telegraph
A Russian sausage magnate and politician who briefly criticised Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has died after falling from the third-floor window of a luxury hotel in India.

Pavel Antov was a member of Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party and a multi-millionaire, having founded one of Russia’s largest sausage makers.

He was reportedly on a trip to celebrate his upcoming 66th birthday when he was found lying in a pool of blood outside the Hotel Sai International in Rayagada, a district in the southern state of Odisha.

An unnamed police official told India’s NDTV news outlet they suspected he took his own life after becoming depressed about the death of his friend who was found dead in the same hotel.

Vladimir Bidenov was found lying unconscious in his room on the first floor of the hotel on Thursday surrounded by empty wine bottles.
Last edited by Isgrimnur on Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Carpet_pissr »

I think it’s safe at this point for even journalists to put “fallen from a window” in quotes.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

Of course no foul play comrade.

In new old want to be Soviet Russia everyone fall to own death with no pushy pushy.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Formix »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 2:27 am Telegraphh
A Russian sausage magnate
Are we certain this was really Pavel Antonov, and not just some kids who were having some zany fun on a Day Off?
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