Ukraine

[Max Peck]

How credible is Bremmer? Also, has he said how he knows? Including specific quotes suggests that he was on the call somehow. Only other option would be if he spoke directly with Musk afterwards, and neither of those seems especially likely.

According to the article, Bremmer said outright that Musk told him. That would be a bold statement to make if he's fabricating the information, but apparently Musk is denying that he spoke to Putin.

I don't know how credible Bremmer is generally considered to be, but being more credible than Elon Musk isn't exactly a high bar to clear. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[LawBeefaroni]

Probably actually for the Gripen, given that the Viggen is no longer in service.

Yeah, Gripen. You can take the kid out if the 80s but you can't take the 80s out of the kid.

[LawBeefaroni]

How credible is Bremmer? Also, has he said how he knows? Including specific quotes suggests that he was on the call somehow. Only other option would be if he spoke directly with Musk afterwards, and neither of those seems especially likely.

Musk has denied it on Twitter. Oddly, I'm still not sure if it actually happened.

[Skinypupy]

Wouldn't be at all surprising if Musk told Bremmer he talked with Putin as some sort of weird "See how 'alpha male' and important I am?" brag, when no conversation of the sort actually occurred.

[Unagi]

It would also make sense for, if Musk could be made to listen (check!), Putin to want a Twitter-whisperer in his corner - and for the two of them to enjoy the unique relationship that only the two of them could have. And this would requite Musk to not reveal he was just going off orders from Putin.

[Blackhawk]

Unless Musk was also on Trump's pee tape.

[El Guapo]

I imagine that it would also be pretty easy for Putin to manipulate Musk by playing to his ego. "Look, people have gone crazy here, thank god you are a smart and honest interlocutor who can present this peace plan to the public!"

[Holman]

As has been said elsewhere, every billionaire is a policy failure.

Wealth is pathology.

[malchior]

How credible is Bremmer? Also, has he said how he knows? Including specific quotes suggests that he was on the call somehow. Only other option would be if he spoke directly with Musk afterwards, and neither of those seems especially likely.

Musk has denied it on Twitter. Oddly, I'm still not sure if it actually happened.

Where did you see that? I only have seen the non-denial below. I could easily read that as 'this guy told the world about something I said in confidence - don't trust him'.

Edit: Ok found a clearer denial.

[LordMortis]

For being "libertarian", he sure does take a lot federal money and side with a lot imperialist authoritarians looking to impose their manifest destiny will. Maybe he can give back all his federal monies and pretend to be a libertarian in China or Russia?

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/10/elon-mu ... tions.html

(Or does this go in the China thread or the Social Media thread... Thread placement is getting a bit meta for me)

[Daehawk]

I keep hearing librarian.

[Apollo]

He's positioning himself philosophically for his inevitable run for President.

[stessier]

He's positioning himself philosophically for his inevitable run for President.

He can't run as he's not a natural born citizen (born in South Africa).

[Carpet_pissr]

He's positioning himself philosophically for his inevitable run for President.

He can't run as he's not a natural born citizen (born in South Africa).

That would be true in the pre-Trumpian era, yes. RoL ain’t what it used to be (that should be set to music! Paging Randy Rainbow…)

[Max Peck]

He'll just run the country as a wholly owned subsidiary, with the PotUS as one of his direct reports.

[LordMortis]

He'll just run the country as a wholly owned subsidiary, with the PotUS as one of his direct reports.

He'll make us a public company and then restart QE to fund the projects from which he can increase his net worth while smugly casting aspersions at competitors in the free market that imply his own superior virility, sexual prowess, and genetic superiority.

[El Guapo]

He's positioning himself philosophically for his inevitable run for President.

He can't run as he's not a natural born citizen (born in South Africa).

That would be true in the pre-Trumpian era, yes. RoL ain’t what it used to be (that should be set to music! Paging Randy Rainbow…)

Just to be clear there's zero chance that Musk wants to be the U.S. president, nor that the right wing (nor anyone else) is interested in erasing the "natural born citzien" requirement either literally or as a de facto matter. However, Musk will happily support the right wing autocracy as it starts to consolidate power here.

[malchior]

SpaceX now wants $400M to provide Starlink services and wants the Pentagon to pick up the tab. There is always a grift with him. Always. He's all free enterprise until he wants to use the US treasury to prop up his companies.

There has been wide reporting that many of these terminals were actually provided by Poland and Orlen (I think 11K) of that 20K. The network is SpaceX's own network so I'm hard pressed to understand these cost numbers. Unless Ukraine is displacing a paying customer this sounds like a lot of bullshit accounting shenanigans.

I missed this on first read - mostly because I'm seeing red - but they are claiming a cost of $4500 per month per unit for connectivity?! What absolute horseshit. Those are rates are ridiculous. Beyond absurd is the only word I can use for it.

Since they first started arriving in Ukraine last spring, the Starlink satellite internet terminals made by Elon Musk’s SpaceX have been a vital source of communication for Ukraine’s military, allowing it to fight and stay connected even as cellular phone and internet networks have been destroyed in its war with Russia.

So far roughly 20,000 Starlink satellite units have been donated to Ukraine, with Musk tweeting on Friday the “operation has cost SpaceX $80 million and will exceed $100 million by the end of the year.”

But those charitable contributions could be coming to an end, as SpaceX has warned the Pentagon that it may stop funding the service in Ukraine unless the US military kicks in tens of millions of dollars per month.

Documents obtained by CNN show that last month Musk’s SpaceX sent a letter to the Pentagon saying it can no longer continue to fund the Starlink service as it has. The letter also requested that the Pentagon take over funding for Ukraine’s government and military use of Starlink, which SpaceX claims would cost more than $120 million for the rest of the year and could cost close to $400 million for the next 12 months.

...

“Starlink has been absolutely essential because the Russians have targeted the Ukrainian communications infrastructure,” said Dimitri Alperovitch, co-founder of the Silverado Policy Accelerator, a think tank. “Without that they’d be really operating in the blind in many cases.”

Though Musk has received widespread acclaim and thanks for responding to requests for Starlink service to Ukraine right as the war was starting, in reality, the vast majority of the 20,000 terminals have received full or partial funding from outside sources, including the US government, the UK and Poland, according to the SpaceX letter to the Pentagon.

SpaceX’s request that the US military foot the bill has rankled top brass at the Pentagon, with one senior defense official telling CNN that SpaceX has “the gall to look like heroes” while having others pay so much and now presenting them with a bill for tens of millions per month.

According to the SpaceX figures shared with the Pentagon, about 85% of the 20,000 terminals in Ukraine were paid – or partially paid – for by countries like the US and Poland or other entities. Those entities also paid for about 30% of the internet connectivity, which SpaceX says costs $4,500 each month per unit for the most advanced service. (Over the weekend, Musk tweeted there are around 25,000 terminals in Ukraine.)

[Kurth]

SpaceX now wants $400M to provide Starlink services and wants the Pentagon to pick up the tab. There is always a grift with him. Always. He's all free enterprise until he wants to use the US treasury to prop up his companies.

There has been wide reporting that many of these terminals were actually provided by Poland and Orlen (I think 11K) of that 20K. The network is SpaceX's own network so I'm hard pressed to understand these cost numbers. Unless Ukraine is displacing a paying customer this sounds like a lot of bullshit accounting shenanigans.

I missed this on first read - mostly because I'm seeing red - but they are claiming a cost of $4500 per month per unit for connectivity?! What absolute horseshit. Those are rates are ridiculous. Beyond absurd is the only word I can use for it.

Since they first started arriving in Ukraine last spring, the Starlink satellite internet terminals made by Elon Musk’s SpaceX have been a vital source of communication for Ukraine’s military, allowing it to fight and stay connected even as cellular phone and internet networks have been destroyed in its war with Russia.

So far roughly 20,000 Starlink satellite units have been donated to Ukraine, with Musk tweeting on Friday the “operation has cost SpaceX $80 million and will exceed $100 million by the end of the year.”

But those charitable contributions could be coming to an end, as SpaceX has warned the Pentagon that it may stop funding the service in Ukraine unless the US military kicks in tens of millions of dollars per month.

Documents obtained by CNN show that last month Musk’s SpaceX sent a letter to the Pentagon saying it can no longer continue to fund the Starlink service as it has. The letter also requested that the Pentagon take over funding for Ukraine’s government and military use of Starlink, which SpaceX claims would cost more than $120 million for the rest of the year and could cost close to $400 million for the next 12 months.

...

“Starlink has been absolutely essential because the Russians have targeted the Ukrainian communications infrastructure,” said Dimitri Alperovitch, co-founder of the Silverado Policy Accelerator, a think tank. “Without that they’d be really operating in the blind in many cases.”

Though Musk has received widespread acclaim and thanks for responding to requests for Starlink service to Ukraine right as the war was starting, in reality, the vast majority of the 20,000 terminals have received full or partial funding from outside sources, including the US government, the UK and Poland, according to the SpaceX letter to the Pentagon.

SpaceX’s request that the US military foot the bill has rankled top brass at the Pentagon, with one senior defense official telling CNN that SpaceX has “the gall to look like heroes” while having others pay so much and now presenting them with a bill for tens of millions per month.

According to the SpaceX figures shared with the Pentagon, about 85% of the 20,000 terminals in Ukraine were paid – or partially paid – for by countries like the US and Poland or other entities. Those entities also paid for about 30% of the internet connectivity, which SpaceX says costs $4,500 each month per unit for the most advanced service. (Over the weekend, Musk tweeted there are around 25,000 terminals in Ukraine.)

Hmm. If that’s how Elon wants to play it, maybe it’s time to nationalize Starlink.

[malchior]

Good gravy. It's like he wants to scream to the world, "I am a sociopath".

[LordMortis]

His response clearly shows he's taken the Soviet Red pill. I personally would consider anything he has his hands in a national security risk.

[malchior]

His response clearly shows he's taken the Soviet Red pill. I personally would consider anything he has his hands in a national security risk.

That's the crazy part. He has a stake in a company conducting national security launches! I don't understand what is happening here. The United States government looks extremely, extremely weak. I mean Musk is a private citizen and is free to make these statements. And the US government has a duty to OUR SAFETY to treat him like the security risk he is. Combine this with the Trump debacle and I still cannot imagine that Europe is not flat out panicking under the radar right now.

[Skinypupy]

Imagine having more money than nearly everyone in existence and making the conscious decision to be that big of a douche.

Truly, the mind boggles.

[Skinypupy]

Interesting thread, although I admit I haven't personally dug into it's veracity.

[LordMortis]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1580 ... 35456.html

For those of us who are twitter thread impaired.

[Isgrimnur]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1580 ... 35456.html

For those of us who are twitter thread impaired.

[coopasonic]

Imagine having more money than nearly everyone in existence and making the conscious decision to be that big of a douche.

Truly, the mind boggles.

You think he became that rich by being a good person? I am not sure he "decided" to be a douche.

[Skinypupy]

Imagine having more money than nearly everyone in existence and making the conscious decision to be that big of a douche.

Truly, the mind boggles.

You think he became that rich by being a good person? I am not sure he "decided" to be a douche.

Of course not, but he could certainly choose to stop being a douche at any time.

[LordMortis]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1580 ... 35456.html

For those of us who are twitter thread impaired.

I learned it from you, DAD!

[malchior]

Imagine having more money than nearly everyone in existence and making the conscious decision to be that big of a douche.

Truly, the mind boggles.

You think he became that rich by being a good person? I am not sure he "decided" to be a douche.

Of course not, but he could certainly choose to stop being a douche at any time.

I can't help but wonder if he actually can. Lately he has seemed on tilt and acting very Trump-y. This almost certainly is partly intentional but you have to wonder what is going on with this guy.

[Daehawk]

[Daehawk]

Of course not, but he could certainly choose to stop being a douche at any time.

From what Ive seen of the super filthy rich they dont ever seem to think they have enough money and spend their life getting more...until they die and have nothing again.

[Kurth]

Imagine having more money than nearly everyone in existence and making the conscious decision to be that big of a douche.

Truly, the mind boggles.

You think he became that rich by being a good person? I am not sure he "decided" to be a douche.

Of course not, but he could certainly choose to stop being a douche at any time.

I can't help but wonder if he actually can. Lately he has seemed on tilt and acting very Trump-y. This almost certainly is partly intentional but you have to wonder what is going on with this guy.

On his current path, I think we may see him really test the limits of how far he, as a private individual, can stand in the way of national policy and security. The more I see of Elon Musk, the more I believe that on some fundamental level, he’s incredibly naive.

[Carpet_pissr]

Remember the Ukrainians also literally told him to ‘Fuck off’ in response to his comments.

Not saying this is related, but I guess depending on how thick Musk’s skin is, it should be considered.

People with almost unlimited wealth and influence usually don’t respond well to being told that in a very public way.

Guess the answer to my question is: ‘not very thick’, as I expected.

[malchior]

Yeah - he is notoriously thin skinned. The interesting thing to me is that while his adoring fans are lapping this up there has been remarkable push back and folks digging in to disprove the story as the lie it is. The letter to DoD was sent pre-fuck off, pre-Putin discussion, etc. so his overreaction has caught him in the midst of a grift and I expect as usual he'll start talking about absolute nonsense to bury it.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'll just say this. In the 90s and 00s, my wife got sick of hearing how much I hated Trump. She's starting to get sick of hearing how much I hate Musk.



Regarding the costs, either Starlink is losing a shitload of money of money on subscriptions in the rest of the world or they are just pulling this bullshit to punish Ukraine for a personal insult to Musk and/or profiteer off the war.

[Daehawk]

Ive hated Starlink from the start but for other reasons. My main concern was sky pollution. Just a ton of useless junk floating around. We need less not more of that.

[stessier]

Ive hated Starlink from the start but for other reasons. My main concern was sky pollution. Just a ton of useless junk floating around. We need less not more of that.

Hardly useless as noted by the Ukranians.

[Alefroth]

Are there any alternatives to Starlink?

[Smoove_B]

My main concern was sky pollution.

You continue to surprise me; you contain multitudes.