Ukraine

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Daehawk
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

The local news shows we have 2 Ukrainian refugee families living here in my town. Neat..in a way. Sorry they had to leave their home but glad they made it here safe. Not sure how they'll get by or fit in not speaking the language. Im not sure how I could deal with that if it was me.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gbasden »

Daehawk wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:12 pm The local news shows we have 2 Ukrainian refugee families living here in my town. Neat..in a way. Sorry they had to leave their home but glad they made it here safe. Not sure how they'll get by or fit in not speaking the language. Im not sure how I could deal with that if it was me.
When on our nerd cruise, the war in Ukraine had just begun. One of the crew was Ukranian, and he was stuck on the ship while his wife and two daughters grabbed what they could carry and fled to Poland. One of my friends is a very resourceful engineer and has been working with the crew member, Ievgen, to get refugee status for himself and the rest of his family. We just got done raising the money to get his family flown over. Helping one family is a drop in the bucket, but it sure feels good.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Hamlet3145 »

gbasden wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:19 pm We just got done raising the money to get his family flown over.
:clap:
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

https://www.thedailybeast.com/boris-bon ... rmongering
The chief of the Russian mission to the United Nations in Geneva has resigned his post in shame with a damning hate letter to Russian President Vladimir Putin, calling the Feb. 24 invasion of Ukraine not only a crime against the people of Ukraine, but perhaps “the most serious crime against the people of Russia, with a bold letter Z crossing out all hopes and prospects for a prosperous free society in our country.”

Boris Bondarev had worked at Russia’s foreign ministry since 2002, first in Moscow and then in Geneva, during which he said “the level of lies and unprofessionalism in the work of the Foreign Ministry has been increasing all the time.” It is highly unlikely the former diplomat will go back to Russia, but there has been no confirmation about if he defected and, if so, to what country.

He named checked Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, who he said started as an intellectual held in high esteem, but who was now “a good illustration of the degradation of this system.” He blames Lavrov—not Putin—for many of Russia’s recent choices, condemning him for “threaten[ing] the world (that is, Russia too!) with nuclear weapons!”
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Jaymon »

Nobody can help everybody,
yet everybody can help somebody.
Thus the world is changed.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Lavrov would make a good sacrificial lamb for Putin if Putin cares about an exit strategy.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Apollo »

gbasden wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:19 pm
Daehawk wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:12 pm The local news shows we have 2 Ukrainian refugee families living here in my town. Neat..in a way. Sorry they had to leave their home but glad they made it here safe. Not sure how they'll get by or fit in not speaking the language. Im not sure how I could deal with that if it was me.
When on our nerd cruise, the war in Ukraine had just begun. One of the crew was Ukranian, and he was stuck on the ship while his wife and two daughters grabbed what they could carry and fled to Poland. One of my friends is a very resourceful engineer and has been working with the crew member, Ievgen, to get refugee status for himself and the rest of his family. We just got done raising the money to get his family flown over. Helping one family is a drop in the bucket, but it sure feels good.
This is awesome! You and your family are to be commended for your selfless sacrifice to help total strangers in need.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:34 pm Lavrov would make a good sacrificial lamb for Putin if Putin cares about an exit strategy.
Would he? If the Russian people are pissed after the war's conclusion, I doubt that they would say "oh well I guess Lavrov was behind everything and poor Putin was just his hapless stooge!". I also doubt tossing Lavrov overboard would change the minds of the Western powers about Putin's regime either. Putin's ruthlessly consolidated power in himself for the past couple decades, and also cultivated an image of himself as Russia's indispensable leader. Not that he would definitely be toppled if the war failed (that's not an easy thing to do), but sacking Lavrov would probably only make Putin's enemies smell blood in the water.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

Why would he sack Lavrov? There is no failure that demands any accountability to speak of*.

*In Russia
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:03 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:34 pm Lavrov would make a good sacrificial lamb for Putin if Putin cares about an exit strategy.
Would he? If the Russian people are pissed after the war's conclusion, I doubt that they would say "oh well I guess Lavrov was behind everything and poor Putin was just his hapless stooge!". I also doubt tossing Lavrov overboard would change the minds of the Western powers about Putin's regime either. Putin's ruthlessly consolidated power in himself for the past couple decades, and also cultivated an image of himself as Russia's indispensable leader. Not that he would definitely be toppled if the war failed (that's not an easy thing to do), but sacking Lavrov would probably only make Putin's enemies smell blood in the water.
Blaming Lavrov (or someone else) will work at home in the state controlled media. In the West, it's a conciliatory gesture that everyone will accept to make this go away.

We're in the golden age of fraud. Anyone can get away with almost anything if they have enough money/power that other people want.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by El Guapo »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:22 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 4:03 pm
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 12:34 pm Lavrov would make a good sacrificial lamb for Putin if Putin cares about an exit strategy.
Would he? If the Russian people are pissed after the war's conclusion, I doubt that they would say "oh well I guess Lavrov was behind everything and poor Putin was just his hapless stooge!". I also doubt tossing Lavrov overboard would change the minds of the Western powers about Putin's regime either. Putin's ruthlessly consolidated power in himself for the past couple decades, and also cultivated an image of himself as Russia's indispensable leader. Not that he would definitely be toppled if the war failed (that's not an easy thing to do), but sacking Lavrov would probably only make Putin's enemies smell blood in the water.
Blaming Lavrov (or someone else) will work at home in the state controlled media. In the West, it's a conciliatory gesture that everyone will accept to make this go away.

We're in the golden age of fraud. Anyone can get away with almost anything if they have enough money/power that other people want.
Putin's control of the state media and the state security apparatus means that he will probably remain in power even if the war ends badly. But I don't think canning Lavrov or not will impact that one way or the other. And I can see even less reason to think that canning him will impact relations with the West. Insiders don't attribute Russia's conduct to him, and the public doesn't know him enough for it to change the domestic politics of Russia anywhere that matters.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Remus West »

This thread slipping down the page is symbolic to me of the attention span of American media. It was a daily update on the war which has slowly faded to bit pieces during the news rather than headlines.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by dbt1949 »

Well, there's nothing spectacularly new to get our attention. Same with all wars. You just don't think about these things non stop.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Kraken »

Yeah, it seems to be hardening into WW1-style trench warfare. Not much happening on the battlefront that I've read about.

Yesterday Russia's ambassador to the UN resigned with a scathing indictment of Putin's government. One hopes that other officials will follow suit...although they're likely to end up in the "poke with an umbrella" thread if they do.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by malchior »

My natural question is does Wagner own planes like it's goddamn Wing Strike Commander out there or did they just provide pilots.

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Octavious »

That reads like something out of Iron Eagle. :P Now I want to go watch it. CHAPPPPPIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Wagner? Is that a common knowledge despot/assassin master/Bond villain that I’m unaware of?
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Remus West »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:47 pm Wagner? Is that a common knowledge despot/assassin master/Bond villain that I’m unaware of?
Sort of. They are similar to the merc company Blackwater USA founded by Eric Prince. Although there are many more rumors of bad behavior out of them than out of Blackwater shockingly.

At least that is my impression. Of both groups.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:47 pm Wagner? Is that a common knowledge despot/assassin master/Bond villain that I’m unaware of?
Wagner Group
The Wagner Group (Russian: Группа Вагнера, romanized: Gruppa Vagnera), also known as PMC Wagner, ChVK Wagner (ChVK being the Russian abbreviation for Private Military Company), or CHVK Vagner (ЧВК Вагнера ChVK Vagnera, Частная Военная Компания Вагнера), is a Russian paramilitary organization. It is variously described as a private military company, a network of mercenaries, or a de facto private army of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The Wagner Group came to global prominence during the war in Donbas in Ukraine, where it aided separatist forces of the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics from 2014 to 2015. Its contractors have reportedly taken part in various conflicts around the world—including the civil wars in Syria, Libya, the Central African Republic (CAR), and Mali, often fighting on the side of forces aligned with the Russian government. Though welcomed by some allied factions, such as the governments of Syria and the CAR, Wagner operatives have been accused of war crimes in areas where they are deployed. The accusations include rapes and robberies of civilians and, at one point, a video was published of Wagner PMCs torturing an accused deserter.

Because it often operates in support of Russian interests or foreign policy objectives, and is reportedly trained on installations of the Russian Ministry of Defence (MoD), several sources consider ChVK Wagner an arm's-length unit of the MoD or Russia's military intelligence agency, the GRU. Likewise, the group is widely believed to be owned or financed by Yevgeny Prigozhin, a businessman with close links to Putin. It is speculated that the Wagner Group is used by the Russian government to allow for plausible deniability in certain conflicts; it has most recently been tied to the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022, where it has been reportedly deployed to assassinate Ukrainian leaders.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

Im starting to wonder how long it will be before we see German Leopard 2 tanks in Ukraine. I think its only a matter of time.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by dbt1949 »

Minus their ammo.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Yeah, especially if the ammo is made in Switzerland.
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Re: Ukraine

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As the Ukrainians have their equipment and weapons destroyed or replaced, they'll basically be converted to NATO standard equipment. Good news for them bad news for the Russians. I just hope that they can hold out until they get the 155 howitzers and the other high tech equipment that they need. It seems to be more artillery that the can use than anything else. Would be nice to see Poland get f-16s and somebody just push the migs over the border so the Ukrainians can take ownership of them. Maybe they could get stolen?
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Re: Ukraine

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Default wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:00 am Would be nice to see Poland get f-16s and somebody just push the migs over the border so the Ukrainians can take ownership of them. Maybe they could get stolen?
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Re: Ukraine

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Default wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 11:00 am As the Ukrainians have their equipment and weapons destroyed or replaced, they'll basically be converted to NATO standard equipment. Good news for them bad news for the Russians. I just hope that they can hold out until they get the 155 howitzers and the other high tech equipment that they need. It seems to be more artillery that the can use than anything else. Would be nice to see Poland get f-16s and somebody just push the migs over the border so the Ukrainians can take ownership of them. Maybe they could get stolen?
They already have some US M777 155 howitzers
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Holman »

Hopping out of a Mig-29 and into an F-16 isn't an easy thing, though.

Even if the pilot speaks fluent English, the systems are all different, and there are a dozen things that need to be second-nature for effective flying and fighting. A Ukrainian pilot would probably need scores of hours of flight-time training before pointing an F-16 at the enemy.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »

If the pilot is already a capable fighter jet pilot, a fair amount of time in a simulator could be enough to get them the cockpit and procedure familiarity, I would think.
It’s not an insurmountable problem.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Brian »

True enough. However, there are some pretty notable differences that, depending on how long a pilot has been flying a Russian-built aircraft, might be difficult to overcome once ingrained.

One of the most notable differences is in the usage and design of the attitude indicator (sometimes called artificial horizon).
Most Russian-built aircraft have a somewhat different design. The background display is colored as in a Western instrument, but moves up and down only to indicate pitch. A symbol representing the aircraft (which is fixed in a Western instrument) rolls left or right to indicate bank angle.
This design difference is thought to be, at the very least, a contributing factor in a number of airline crashes where a Russian trained pilot is flying Western-built aircraft.

Years of training and habit are difficult to train out.
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Re: Ukraine

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Holman wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 10:43 am Hopping out of a Mig-29 and into an F-16 isn't an easy thing, though.

Even if the pilot speaks fluent English, the systems are all different, and there are a dozen things that need to be second-nature for effective flying and fighting. A Ukrainian pilot would probably need scores of hours of flight-time training before pointing an F-16 at the enemy.

I stated the Poles would get the F-16s to replace the Migs that just "showed up".
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Default »

Also, the US has been exporting military aircraft long enough that there are probably multilingual huds.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Default »

Link referring to the new production line in Greenville, SC. It mentions Bulgaria and Slovakia, so I'm sure the Ukrainians could figure it out pretty quickly.

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... ary-sales/
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Unagi »




Russian seen giving finger to drone.

It's a composite of a few videos (and/or heavily edited), but they send another drone in to drop a bomb on the location and the personnel carrier at least, is destroyed.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Default wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 6:22 pm
Holman wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 10:43 am Hopping out of a Mig-29 and into an F-16 isn't an easy thing, though.

Even if the pilot speaks fluent English, the systems are all different, and there are a dozen things that need to be second-nature for effective flying and fighting. A Ukrainian pilot would probably need scores of hours of flight-time training before pointing an F-16 at the enemy.

I stated the Poles would get the F-16s to replace the Migs that just "showed up".
Yeah, the idea is to get F16s to Poland so they can send their MiGs to UA.

Presumably NATO member Poland would have little issue converting their MiG pilots to the Falcons. The Polish Air Force already flys around 50 of them.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Unagi wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 11:06 am


Russian seen giving finger to drone.

It's a composite of a few videos (and/or heavily edited), but they send another drone in to drop a bomb on the location and the personnel carrier at least, is destroyed.
Unfortunate choice of music considering one of Putin's claims for invading! :doh:

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Apollo »

In the heavy fighting going on right now, the Ukrainians are taking 560-600 casualties every day :shock: : https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/01/worl ... -east.html
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Re: Ukraine

Post by raydude »

Latest from twitter user "Jomini of the West":
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531 ... 96771.html

Short summary:
In the east, Russia advances on Severodonetsk and threatens Lysychansk.
To the north, Ukraine has a bridgehead over the Siverskyi Donets and is trying to advance towards Vovchansk to put pressure on Russian supply lines to Izyum. However, their offensive may be on hold as some units are sent to reinforce the eastern front
To the south, Ukraine is launching a counteroffensive to the north and east of Kherson to try and cut off the main line of communication between Kherson and Vysokopillya and thereby complicate Russian supply lines to units in Kherson
Around the Black Sea: Russia continues to build up defenses on Snake Island
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

A heartwarming tale of friendship.

A Washington state Guardsman received a phone call from a Ukrainian who has an issue with the Javelin. Guardsman talked him through it. 30 minutes later, Guardsman gets a call from the Ukrainian who just blew up a Russia vehicle.

This Guardsman and Ukrainian befriended each other during a relatively recent Washington deployment to the country before the war.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

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Re: Ukraine

Post by Daehawk »

English speaking band of Ukraine Legion take out Russian BTR. Cant figure out why these Russian assets are working alone.

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