[Kickstarter] Darkest Dungeon

[GreenGoo]

Well, it's not "saving" if you can't go back to it.

People save games for different reasons.

And it's a rogue-like anyway, and those have traditionally had only 1 save slot and permadeath, so it's not like this was unexpected.

[TiLT]

Looks like there's been a patch already. The patch notes:

General balancing & Stress tuning based on your feedback, and us watching twitch streams!
Bark Stress tuning - severity, frequency reduced
Camping Skill Affliction Balk - chance reduction
Fix to Firewood Exploit - nothing's free in the Hamlet
Rabies tuning
Slime tuning - Cytokenesis is a bit less frequent, no less awesome.
Missing String fixes - aka "blue text"

From the post they made about it, it sounds like stress is a bit reduced in severity, which is probably a good thing.

[GreenGoo]

From what I've read, it sounds like stress was just a tiny bit out of tune. I hope they didn't swing back the other way too far. The mechanic should be a major headache without being a showstopper, most times, if possible.

Any word on what the starting price is going to be? For whatever reason this one has captured my imagination, and while I have no shortage of awesome games to play, there's always room for one more (at an acceptable price point, of course).

[TiLT]

I believe it's going to be $20.

[GreenGoo]

I believe it's going to be $20.

Hmm. I can splurge on something that really gets my attention, but 20 bucks is beyond my rogue-like budget. Even for a really interesting and different rogue-like.

Oh well, I'll live vicariously through the stories posted here.

[GreenGoo]

Apparently this was once upon a time called House of Ruin? Mouseover text in the steam client is telling me that.

their website is down as well. Stops loading after a couple of page elements make it through. Hopefully that is from monstrous interest in their product the night before release.

Watched a gameplay video. The game has such an awesome art style that I might spring for it at 20 bucks. I really need to hear more from those of you who have played it though.

[ydejin]

Watched a gameplay video. The game has such an awesome art style that I might spring for it at 20 bucks. I really need to hear more from those of you who have played it though.

I'm having a terrific time. Steam says I've got 22 hours in.

Very atmospheric. The voice work and music are great, in addition to the art style.

The characters are all very interesting and different -- in fact two characters of the same class can be quite different depending on their skills (each class has 8 possible combat skills, but characters start with only 4 -- they also have different camping skills which can make a significant difference on longer expeditions). Character development is decent (although there isn't a full upgrade tree, mostly just bonus to stats -- e.g., more damage, better to hit abilities). Equipment mostly works the same way (e.g., just a bonus to HP and dodge ability for armor and a bonus to damage, critical %, and speed). There are some special trinkets/jewelry which drop which are a bit more varied.

Characters do pick up quirks, good and bad, which need to be managed -- e.g., afraid of the dark, eagle-eye, kleptomaniac, explorer. But they're not something you have direct control over (although you can get rid of the bad ones by putting the character in the Sanitorum, if you've got the time and money for it).

The actual combat allows for lots of different tactics and different combinations.

Combat is very tense as is the entire dungeon crawling part, as your health levels drop and your madness level rises as you continue in the dungeon. You'll need to decide whether to continue pushing on to complete your objective risking disaster or quitting with whatever you've grabbed so far.

$20 means different things to different people, but for me it's very easily worth $20. I'm very impressed with it.

[GreenGoo]

Thanks. Appreciate the feedback on the game.

[tgb]

I've been following this closely for the last few days and will all over it tomorrow like stink on a monkey.

[GreenGoo]

I've been following this closely for the last few days and will all over it tomorrow like stink on a monkey.

Yep, getting that rare "will buy and my frugality be damned" feeling, which is always nice to be that excited about something.

[tgb]

Here's a Let's Play from Quill18. Early on I see that under negative traits, one of his characters has "the yips".

That's fucking awesome.

[tgb]

I thought the Plague Doctor looked familiar.

[TiLT]

Funny as it might be, there's no relation there. The plague doctor mask is actually a historical mask that was used by real plague doctors. It looked pretty much exactly like the one in Darkest Dungeon.

[tgb]

Really? Who says gaming isn't educational?

Question: Is there a way to lose the game or some fail state?

What I mean is, part of the appeal of rogue-likes is the drive to do better than you did in the previous attempt, usually reaching a deeper level of the dungeon. From what I've seen from videos, it seems like the game offers up a nearly endless stream of characters to play with. So do you just end up grinding away trying to complete level 50 dungeons with level 1 characters until you get bored, or does it reach a point where the game says "Sorry, dumbass, try again"?

[TiLT]

Question: Is there a way to lose the game or some fail state?

What I mean is, part of the appeal of rogue-likes is the drive to do better than you did in the previous attempt, usually reaching a deeper level of the dungeon. From what I've seen from videos, it seems like the game offers up a nearly endless stream of characters to play with. So do you just end up grinding away trying to complete level 50 dungeons with level 1 characters until you get bored, or does it reach a point where the game says "Sorry, dumbass, try again"?

I don't think you can fail the campaign, per se. However, the end goal in this game is to reach and complete the Darkest Dungeon, which is the final dungeon in the game. It's typically a one-way trip for your very best heroes. If you fail, you'll probably lose them and have to build another team. If you win, they'll return but will be so scarred by the experience that they'll never want to go back there, no matter what. This is the high-risk scenario you're building towards, and failing it can cost you a lot, even if you don't outright lose. I believe you win the game after you've sent 3 or so successful expeditions through the Darkest Dungeon, and since no hero wants to return, that means building 3 highly competent adventuring parties.

[Holman]

Funny as it might be, there's no relation there. The plague doctor mask is actually a historical mask that was used by real plague doctors. It looked pretty much exactly like the one in Darkest Dungeon.

I've always thought this was interesting.

It looks like a bird, but it's actually an attempt at a kind of gas mask (due to the theory that plague was spread by bad air).

Some plague doctors wore a special costume, although graphic sources show that plague doctors wore a variety of garments. The garments were invented by Charles de L'Orme in 1619; they were first used in Paris, but later spread to be used throughout Europe. The protective suit consisted of a heavy fabric overcoat that was waxed, a mask with glass eye openings and a cone nose shaped like a beak to hold scented substances and straw.

Some of the scented materials were ambergris, lemon Balm (Melissa officinalis), mint (Mentha spicata L.) leaves, camphor, cloves, laudanum, myrrh, rose petals, storax. This was thought to protect the doctor from miasmatic bad air. The straw provided a filter for the "bad air". A wooden cane pointer was used to help examine the patient without having to touch them. It was also used as a means of repenting sins, as many believed that the plague was a punishment and would ask to be whipped to repent their sins.

[MonkeyFinger]

Funny as it might be, there's no relation there. The plague doctor mask is actually a historical mask that was used by real plague doctors. It looked pretty much exactly like the one in Darkest Dungeon.

And Assassin's Creed, from what I recall.

[Skinypupy]

Watched a gameplay video. The game has such an awesome art style that I might spring for it at 20 bucks. I really need to hear more from those of you who have played it though.

I'm awfully intrigued by this, but am a bit wary because of the reported crazy difficulty level. I find that I simply don't enjoy overly difficult games any more, no matter how incredible they may look.

[dbemont]

Watched a gameplay video. The game has such an awesome art style that I might spring for it at 20 bucks. I really need to hear more from those of you who have played it though.

I'm awfully intrigued by this, but am a bit wary because of the reported crazy difficulty level. I find that I simply don't enjoy overly difficult games any more, no matter how incredible they may look.

Well, I have been playing a fair amount, and although I wouldn't say it's easy, it doesn't seem as crazy difficult, once you develop specific strategies. It seems to get to the point where you expect your run through a dungeon to go well, but from what I have seen, it never gets to the point where you KNOW you won't have some bad luck and lose a character or have to retreat.

[Paingod]

I helped you get Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun.

Thanks!

I bought both of those games after release, based on reviews and feedback here. It's very rare for me to get swept up by a game before it's released and I largely ignore Kickstarter projects based on repeatedly being burned by "Pre-Orders" in the age before Kickstarter. You only pre-order so many games and have them turn into shit upon launch before you stop doing it and wait for reviews instead. I see Kickstarter as a pre-order system, not an investment system, and have accordingly avoided it.

The list of games I've bought on pre-order/early access in the last 4 years could probably be counted on one hand. It includes titles like XCOM: Enemy Unknown, MechWarrior Online, and Star Citizen.

I don't even pay attention to whether or not a game is "Indie-Made" - only if it looks like I'd have fun with it. If so, I wishlist it and pay attention to it and then buy it when I feel like it. I've got dozens of games on my Steam Wishlist that I keep not buying sale after sale simply because I haven't been in the mood for them, but at some point I thought I might be.

[tru1cy]

Watched a gameplay video. The game has such an awesome art style that I might spring for it at 20 bucks. I really need to hear more from those of you who have played it though.

I'm awfully intrigued by this, but am a bit wary because of the reported crazy difficulty level. I find that I simply don't enjoy overly difficult games any more, no matter how incredible they may look.

Typically, I steer clear of these types of games, but this one actually has it hooks into me, I would say before the stress tweaks this was insane difficulty, but now the game is almost just right. The goal is too nurse your heroes and tweak them just right

Btw, I just lost one of my lvl 3 crusaders after sending him the the Cathedral to pray. When I come out a short dungeon with my second tier group I get a message the "He's had a holy vision and has left to pursue it"

[GreenGoo]

I've always thought this was interesting.

It looks like a bird, but it's actually an attempt at a kind of gas mask (due to the theory that plague was spread by bad air).

Some of the scented materials were ambergris

Whale vomit. Thank you, Futurama education!

[GreenGoo]

Still not for sale. When do these things usually happen, anyway? I know some of you are avid game release watchers. I think Smoove is usually on top of this sort of thing.

[IceBear]

Still not for sale. When do these things usually happen, anyway? I know some of you are avid game release watchers. I think Smoove is usually on top of this sort of thing.

According to the Steam forums where one of the developer posted it's supposed to be 9am PST, but with Steam I could see that being anytime from 9am to noon PST

[GreenGoo]

Doesn't really matter, since I'm at work anyway, but I am somewhat anxious to find out how much they are going to gouge me for. If it's too much, I'll have to wait. I don't want to wait.

[IceBear]

According the same thread it'll be around $20

[Isgrimnur]

Kickstarter price was $15, so I figure it'll be between there and $20.

[dbemont]

Watched a gameplay video. The game has such an awesome art style that I might spring for it at 20 bucks. I really need to hear more from those of you who have played it though.

I'm awfully intrigued by this, but am a bit wary because of the reported crazy difficulty level. I find that I simply don't enjoy overly difficult games any more, no matter how incredible they may look.

Typically, I steer clear of these types of games, but this one actually has it hooks into me, I would say before the stress tweaks this was insane difficulty, but now the game is almost just right. The goal is too nurse your heroes and tweak them just right

Btw, I just lost one of my lvl 3 crusaders after sending him the the Cathedral to pray. When I come out a short dungeon with my second tier group I get a message the "He's had a holy vision and has left to pursue it"

Chances are he'll return in a week or two. This is a feature -- sometimes de-stress treatments lead to the hero wandering away to pursue some other activity. Usually, they return.

[IceBear]

Still not for sale. When do these things usually happen, anyway? I know some of you are avid game release watchers. I think Smoove is usually on top of this sort of thing.

According to the Steam forums where one of the developer posted it's supposed to be 9am PST, but with Steam I could see that being anytime from 9am to noon PST

And now someone is saying that while the developers may have wanted to release the game at 9am PST, the Steam store doesn't refresh until 10am PST so won't be able to buy it until then.

[Holman]

I assume I'm not getting mine today. I backed at $15, which is short of the Kickstarter "early access" tier. Those backers got it a few days ago, and now Steam's own version of early access is going live today.

I'm guessing that my $15 pledge doesn't get me into what's opening on Steam today but only into the later official release. (I would be pleased to be surprised!)

[IceBear]

It's up. $19.99 CDN

[GreenGoo]

It's up. $19.99 CDN

Yep, thanks. I've got an entire afternoon to brood over 20 bucks versus game.

20 bucks is nothing. I spent more for lunch. But 20 bucks for a game, when I have hundreds of games, most of which were purchased for less than 10 bucks, 20 bucks is suddenly a crazy amount of money to spend on a game.

I'm sure I'll pull the trigger. I get the afternoon to torture myself first though.

[tru1cy]

Some tips from one of the Devs posted at Polygon

One that stood out to me was obvious:

On a related note: Torchlight is an extremely important mechanic in the game, and it’s not as simple as it may first seem. The torch starts at 100 percent and then dwindles as you move through the dungeon. The brighter the light, the safer the heroes are and the less stress they take. As the torch dims, monsters fight harder and heroes take more stress.

But wait! The darker it is, the better the loot drops. Doing "dark runs" can actually be quite profitable. It comes at a risk,
hower

Bolded portion I didn't know or realize

[Sepiche]

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooh. That makes sense. That also gives new utility to some of those items that give bonuses when the light is low. Now that I know low light = more treasure, I could see kitting out a team that's specially equipped to fight in the dark.

[TiLT]

Some tips from one of the Devs posted at Polygon

One that stood out to me was obvious:

On a related note: Torchlight is an extremely important mechanic in the game, and it’s not as simple as it may first seem. The torch starts at 100 percent and then dwindles as you move through the dungeon. The brighter the light, the safer the heroes are and the less stress they take. As the torch dims, monsters fight harder and heroes take more stress.

But wait! The darker it is, the better the loot drops. Doing "dark runs" can actually be quite profitable. It comes at a risk,
hower

Bolded portion I didn't know or realize

It's not something you should do with new heroes though. Make sure they've built up some experience before you try this stunt.

Also, you can see all the current effects of light by hovering your mouse over the torch.

[morlac]

This game looks awesome! I had totally forgotten about it and neglected to put it on my wishlist. I will now donate $19.99 to my negligence fund. Downloading now!

[tgb]

OK. I just had a character get syphilis from examining a dusty bookcase. I think my mother must be one of the designers.

I wish there was more specific information as to the various buffs and afflictions. I had a character examine a confessional and become "absolved of sins", but I have no idea what that actually did. Another maxed out on stress and became "abusive", but other than making rude comments I didn't see any difference in her performance.

I wonder if characters can get Tourette's.

[baelthazar]

This game is like playing a Mike Mignola graphic novel. So far, it is interesting, but I went into my first dungeon with way too few supplies. I'm also not exactly sure what the -dmg% modifiers are for skills.

[ColdSteel]

A Steam users called "Spirit" posted this Steam review and it's so damn good I have to quote it here:

“What, you'd like to know my story? There's not much to tell, I'm sorry to say. I came here, same reason as you – for glory, for gold. And not one man can fault me with cupidity, no. I tempted good friends, capable friends, spewing that very promise, HA, and don't let them tell you, CONVINCE YOU, that their hands were forced. They came willingly, yes.

“Like pigs to the slaughter.

“The first month was uneventful at the estate. Harried heroes came and went, but my friends and I were heartier fare. We spent what treasures we pilfered on libation, often causing a ruckus in the tavern. New adventurers would swagger in, ♥♥♥♥♥ure, and we'd put them right in place. We'd usually frighten the greener ones off... the rest would perish, often crying out – for God, for their mother, for the sweet release of death. Fools.

“My friends and I, we don't adventure anymore. We tend the estate, greet would-be heroes such as yourself, to give fair warning. All your skills, all your learning, all your experiences past mean nothing here. You will die, likely alone and raving in the dark. Death is all that you can count on. Death is all you will know.

“What, my necklace? No, these are no ordinary charms, child. These are my friends, you see. I carry them with me still, even after death. They quiet my mind, when the dark comes, you see. It was the least I could do; their bodies gave me sustenance – their bodies give me sustenance, HA, and don't let them tell you, CONVINCE YOU, that their hands were forced. They came willingly, yes.

“And so will you.”

Darkest Dungeon is an RPG turn-based roguelite dungeon crawler – and yes, I've written this phrase so much it autocorrects genres without prompting. I've named my dog “RPG turn-based roguelite dungeon crawler” and he hates me. But I digress. Story is that your wealthy relative has died, not before sending you a letter, urging you to come to the ancestral ♥♥♥♥ hole to spruce up the place and purge the ancient, unknowable evil that lurks, broods, and taints up the place like a unruly teenager. The game starts off with a neat little tutorial, explaining some of the nuances of gameplay: tactical placement of characters, attacks, effects, etc. These are all standards we've come to know and love in the genre, nothing out of the ordinary. But there are a few twists that set Darkest Dungeon apart.

For one, every hero has a stress bar beneath their health. With each enemy encounter, trap, and the act of WALKING, the adventurers will accrue stress. This is countered by killing blows, critical hits, and some support abilities. Inevitably someone will reach their breaking point after one too many knock knock jokes and one of two things will happen: they'll rally courageously, lowering their stress and everyone elses, or become afflicted. This affliction, whether it be cowardice, masochism, irrationality (and more!), means you won't always be in control of that hero, often to their detriment and the team's.

After you clear (or flee) a dungeon you return to the estate, a hub where your weary adventurers can get some much needed R&R. Mirroring the core gameplay, your decisions in the hub world are deeply tactical. Some characters are religious, and will only be willing to visit the abbey to relieve stress. Others will happily drink and gamble their sorrows away. And as less savory quirks develop (buffs and debuffs gained through adventuring and R&R, separate from affliction), you can send them to the sanitarium, where presumably all the fun is. All of this is costly in time and money, and you'll have to manage carefully. Fresh heroes and heroines are wheeled into town after every adventure, but they are newbly in nature. With each subsequent successful quest, estate properties unlock, providing you the ability to upgrade abilities, armor and weapons, survivor traits, and more. Expect to spend a lot of booty.

When you set out on an adventure you'll select your adventurers, and there are a lot to choose from. Some are tanks, some are roguish, some are healers, and some suck (stupid damn plague doctor I HATE YOU SO MUCH). You can select your character order as well, and right clicking on a portrait provides insight into their ideal placement. Different heroes provide different bonuses, like scouting ahead to spot traps and treasure. After you pick your team you'll need provisions, a risk and reward proposition... are you detecting a pattern? You'll need food for characters, particularly on the longer treks (there's even a camping/survival mechanic to replenish health and stress for such undertakings), or they're liable to starve. You'll need torches to light the way and keep characters from intermittently having nervous breakdowns. And you'll need various health items to keep bleed and blight effects in check. Does this sound like a lot to juggle? Because I am not doing the death-defying, chainsaw spinning, greased up, foot juggling spectacle justice, I assure you. There aren't enough words. After your quest these provisions don't carry on to the next journey, unfortunately. So do you risk spending too much, or spending too little? Both carry consequence.

After enough victories more procedural dungeon locales unlock, bosses become available to fight, and the game gets tougher. I'm not joking when I suggest that YOU, the player, will experience every quirk, affliction, and solace your characters do. I was paranoid. I was stalwart. I was masochistic. I was even hagiophobic (the last time a game introduced me to such cool vocabulary was Eternal Darkness). That is an accomplishment. And it was all worth it, every second of crawling, creeping madness, to play this game.

It's only February 2015 and this will easily be a contender for GOTY, of that I have no doubt. The art direction is spectacular; beautiful and visceral at the same time, like an old, dusty, medieval anatomy book. The turn-based attacks are so cool, so varied. The enemies are bizarre, terrifying, and menacing. The heroes and heroines are flawed, heroic, almost real. The dungeon crawling is rewarding, the victories are often bittersweet, and the office cooler conversation potential of this game is off the charts with so many variables. But the narration, sweet tap dancing Allfather, Allmother, and every Allrelative in between, the narration is amazing. It's omnipresent, in the hub and dungeons, raising hopes and dashing them in dulcet tones. It's like Vincent Price and Paul Frees' (Disney's Haunted Mansion) voices got married and Cthulhu officiated.

I have a few teeny, tiny criticisms. The game can be unrelentingly punishing at times, unfair even. And while there is no fail state per se, things can get so bad that you'll want to just restart. I'd like the option to play a game in which I can save. XCOM has a save mode AND an Ironman mode, and I'd prefer that option here as well. There are also little technical glitches here and there, grammatical and spelling errors occasionally. That's about it. That's the sum of my complaints. I'd like to be able to save and there are a few little errors. And this title is in Early Access, which means we can anticipate lots of fine tuning and HOPEFULLY some cool additions as well. But what's already here, what's already been done, is spectacular.

It would be a grave crime against the Elder Gods to pass this up, and madness will surely follow.

[tru1cy]

Btw, some of your guys will refuse to go into dungeons that they outlevel. Which is an awesome mechanic, but freaking annoying