Octopus Overlords

Body cameras are great, working both ways which is awesome.

I guess I should post this here, but it's it feels too R&P for EBG. I'll delete the post and move it somewhere else if so.

This story really pissed me off today. A jury awarded $4 to the family of a black man who was killed by police while in his own home.

Gregory Hill Jr was drunk in his garage and playing music really loud. It was a Drake song and had a lot of curse words in it. Meanwhile, an elementary school was letting their students out nearby. A mother heard the music and called the cops. When two sheriff's deputies showed up, Hill opened up the garage. He saw two deputies, and closed the garage door. That was when one of them said he saw a gun. The other deputy drew his gun and fired through the garage door, striking Hill in the head and killing him. When they found Hill's body he did have a gun. It was unloaded and in his back pocket.

The deputy was never charged with anything, but Hill's mother sued him and St Lucie County Sheriff Ken Mascara for wrongful death, negligence, excessive force, and violations of Hill's 14th and 15th amendment rights. A federal jury ruled that the family should be awarded $4. Four dollars. $1 to the mother for funeral expenses, and $1 to each of Hill's three children for "loss of parental companionship, instruction, and guidance, and mental pain and suffering". (Side note: his 9-year old daughter was sitting on a bench across the street when her father was gunned down in his garage.)

To top it off, they ruled that Sheriff Mascara was only 1 percent liable, so the sheriff's office only has to pay 4 cents. Hill was 99 percent liable for his own death, because he was drunk. In his garage. Which is apparently a crime now.

What in the actual *$%# is this jury thinking? I live in St Lucie County, and I believe Sheriff Mascara is a good man. But this situation is wrong. It's horrible from top to bottom. And the jury only made it worse. $4 in damages is a slap in the face to the family. That's worse than awarding zero damages. $1 for burial expenses, and $1 to the children for the loss of their father... It breaks my heart that a jury would be that cruel.

All lives matter.


/s

First, I agree that blood alcohol level is not relevant, but since it's part of the narrative, presumably the coroner's autopsy showed that he was drunk, or was he only "drunk" during the trial?

msteelers wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 9:19 pm Four dollars.

I kept reading it as $4m until you spelled it out. That's an insult. The I only thing I can how for is that there was some kind of formula the jury had to follow to come up with $4.


As for the details, would need to see more but blind firing through the door seems like a poor choice.

LawBeefaroni wrote:

msteelers wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 9:19 pm Four dollars.

I kept reading it as $4m until you spelled it out. That's an insult. The I only thing I can how for is that there was some kind of formula the jury had to follow to come up with $4.

It took me a minute to realize it was just $4 too.

Here’s an article that goes into more detail on how the jury came up with $4. It’s possible this is a combination of terrible Florida laws and gross incompetence on the part of the jury.

msteelers wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 10:33 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:

msteelers wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 9:19 pm Four dollars.

I kept reading it as $4m until you spelled it out. That's an insult. The I only thing I can how for is that there was some kind of formula the jury had to follow to come up with $4.

It took me a minute to realize it was just $4 too.

Here’s an article that goes into more detail on how the jury came up with $4. It’s possible this is a combination of terrible Florida laws and gross incompetence on the part of the jury.

Four cents. $0.04.

A Tennessee man is tackled by a SWAT team in a raid -- but it's the wrong house, and wrong man

Armed with a federal search warrant, weapons, body armor and flash-bang grenades, DEA agents and members of the Bradley County SWAT team crept up to a house in Cleveland, Tennessee, before dawn Tuesday and then burst inside.

As they swept the entryway, they detonated the grenades and smoke filled the first floor.

Then they opened the basement door and found a man with a gun. They tackled him and told him he was under arrest, wanted for murder.
Except... it was the wrong house and the wrong man.
...
Renck said that during the raid, one flash-bang grenade went through the open doorway of his young son's bedroom, and it "blinded and deafened" him.

Now, Renck told WDEF, his son is "worried about how he's going to sleep at night and he's wondering if he's going to have nightmares when he had guns drawn in his room, waking up to a big bang."
...
The cause of the mix-up is not clear, but Renck told WDEF that agents said his house and car looked similar to those of the suspect.
"I had a Yukon and a Camry. And they said, 'you had a white car so we just got your house. It looked similar,'" Renck said.

This @FBI agent was dancing at a Denver bar on Saturday night. Did a back flip, gun falls. He picks it up and a round is fired, hitting a man (he’ll be ok.)

Seems like we're exporting this too:

Successive US administrations have pumped tens of millions of dollars into Salvadoran law enforcement and military to shore up the government’s “Mano Dura” or Firm Hand program, first launched in 2003 but redoubled in 2014 to tackle the country’s rampant gang problem.

Yet the country’s police will be broadly accused next month of “a pattern of behavior by security personnel amounting to extrajudicial executions” in a United Nations report, seen in advance by CNN, that will also call on Salvadoran security forces to break a “cycle of impunity” in which killings are rarely punished.

Moliere wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:26 am

This @FBI agent was dancing at a Denver bar on Saturday night. Did a back flip, gun falls. He picks it up and a round is fired, hitting a man (he’ll be ok.)

Reals? What a fucking idiot.

Op-ed on the future of policing. I can say it's definitely true here.

American policing today is in a state of slow-motion collapse, struggling mightily to attract new officers — no matter how low standards are dropped.

Under sustained assault by the City Council, pundits and self-styled civil-liberties advocates, a new generation of New York City cops is being conditioned to avoid showdowns with civilians, especially where coercion or force is called for. We could have saved the costly investment in body cameras by explicitly telling the cops two words: “Do nothing.”

Officers who do more engagement than what is absolutely required have been threatened by HQ that they’ll find themselves on a list of “troublemakers.” Thousands have, or will soon, head for the exits, telling all within earshot to avoid police work as a career.

In many parts of the country, the police have gone to ground.


Racked by gun violence and pervasive fear, Detroit managed to get through 2016 without police shooting anyone — even as murders continued to rise. Police paralysis is great news for the elite critics of the cops but terrible news for the people dragooned in that town — it likely signals that the police are taking the long and winding road around trouble of all kinds.

In Chicago, the street cops’ ethos is “go fetal, stay fetal.” In Philadelphia, as murders soar, cops are the ones in prosecutors’ crosshairs. It is crystal clear what was long suspected: Costly Justice Department intervention in local police departments expedited the end of hands-on policing.

I don't mind a collapse if it means people will cry out later and we can maybe do better the second time, without creating a police that treats the people it protects like the enemy in a war.

That's going to be a painful process, though.

Racked by gun violence and pervasive fear, Detroit managed to get through 2016 without police shooting anyone — even as murders continued to rise. Police paralysis is great news for the elite critics of the cops but terrible news for the people dragooned in that town — it likely signals that the police are taking the long and winding road around trouble of all kinds.

"Jeez, man. Just let the cops get out there and shoot some folks. That would clear this murder problem right up!"

Biyobi wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:35 pm

Racked by gun violence and pervasive fear, Detroit managed to get through 2016 without police shooting anyone — even as murders continued to rise. Police paralysis is great news for the elite critics of the cops but terrible news for the people dragooned in that town — it likely signals that the police are taking the long and winding road around trouble of all kinds.

"Jeez, man. Just let the cops get out there and shoot some folks. That would clear this murder problem right up!"

I think the point is that if police shootings/use of force are the only metric they're being measured on, cops will not engage and just let crime happen.

Community policing is dead. Get to your shift, respond to calls at a fair pace, have lunch, go home safe and with a job tomorrow. Do nothing else. If you see something, you saw nothin'.

Every single Chicago cop I know tells me I need to carry. WTF is that? They tell me it's because cops don't get to choose their calls and more importantly, callers don't get to choose their cops.

Moliere wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:37 pm A Tennessee man is tackled by a SWAT team in a raid -- but it's the wrong house, and wrong man

Renck said that during the raid, one flash-bang grenade went through the open doorway of his young son's bedroom, and it "blinded and deafened" him.

rendering him incapable of seeing or hearing anything

That's just bullshit. Police can police and still respect the constitution. If they don't want to, then they need to go. Nothing that I've seen says that somehow the police can't do this. They want to pretend that BLM 'hates police'. But they can't be bothered to go to the website and read the BLM policy statement which expressly says they support policing in all communities. They DON'T support biased policing and they don't support police breaking the law. How hard is that?

Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:59 pm That's just bullshit. Police can police and still respect the constitution. If they don't want to, then they need to go. Nothing that I've seen says that somehow the police can't do this. They want to pretend that BLM 'hates police'. But they can't be bothered to go to the website and read the BLM policy statement which expressly says they support policing in all communities. They DON'T support biased policing and they don't support police breaking the law. How hard is that?

The point is that it's getting harder to do the job so you get cops who don't police or who are far underqualified. And a statement on a website isn't going to change policy in cities like Chicago and New York.

You say it's bullshit but it's happening. I'm not really married to why but it's happening.

I would disagree that it's getting harder or if it is, it should get harder. When they were able to kill people at will, stuff drugs on people, pull people over because they felt like it, that was not policing. That was people acting like assholes because they could. Now they can't and they are whining about it. F them. Get some people who want to actually be police!!!!

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:08 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:59 pm That's just bullshit. Police can police and still respect the constitution. If they don't want to, then they need to go. Nothing that I've seen says that somehow the police can't do this. They want to pretend that BLM 'hates police'. But they can't be bothered to go to the website and read the BLM policy statement which expressly says they support policing in all communities. They DON'T support biased policing and they don't support police breaking the law. How hard is that?

The point is that it's getting harder to do the job so you get cops who don't police or who are far underqualified. And a statement on a website isn't going to change policy in cities like Chicago and New York.

You say it's bullshit but it's happening. I'm not really married to why but it's happening.

Where are all these cops getting prosecuted? Every high profile case I see, the cop is winning. The only case I can think of from the top of my head that the cop is in serious trouble is the case of a Palm Beach Gardens cop who shot and killed a black motorist who was broken down on the side of the road. And the only reason that is going to trial is because the victim was on the phone with roadside assistance during the altercation, and recordings show that that cop lied about what happened.

Community policing is not dead. The local law enforcement agencies here work hard to build their community contacts, and it works. I say good-riddance to the types of cops described in the op-ed.

msteelers wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:26 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:08 pm

Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:59 pm That's just bullshit. Police can police and still respect the constitution. If they don't want to, then they need to go. Nothing that I've seen says that somehow the police can't do this. They want to pretend that BLM 'hates police'. But they can't be bothered to go to the website and read the BLM policy statement which expressly says they support policing in all communities. They DON'T support biased policing and they don't support police breaking the law. How hard is that?

The point is that it's getting harder to do the job so you get cops who don't police or who are far underqualified. And a statement on a website isn't going to change policy in cities like Chicago and New York.

You say it's bullshit but it's happening. I'm not really married to why but it's happening.

Where are all these cops getting prosecuted? Every high profile case I see, the cop is winning. The only case I can think of from the top of my head that the cop is in serious trouble is the case of a Palm Beach Gardens cop who shot and killed a black motorist who was broken down on the side of the road. And the only reason that is going to trial is because the victim was on the phone with roadside assistance during the altercation, and recordings show that that cop lied about what happened.

This isn't about the high profile incidents. Active policing leads to make more conflict, by definition. The more you engage, the more there will be conflict. The more conflict, the higher likelihood of a bad incident. So why should cops put their lives and careers on the line because someone walking down the street prints? Why chase a stolen car when you'll get called off and disciplined when you cross districts? Why go out of your way to arrest someone when they'll be out the same day on a $150 ibond for a firearm felony? Why even do the job? That's the problem. People who think that lowering the bar will result in better cops might be surprised the next time they get pulled over.

Community policing is not dead. The local law enforcement agencies here work hard to build their community contacts, and it works. I say good-riddance to the types of cops described in the op-ed.

Sure, it's great in flyover territory where police still have a modicum of authority. In big cities like NYC and Chicago the police are somewhat unruly pawns of the politicians.

LAPD uses community policing and cameras and they have not had the issues that the Chicago police claim. The sheriff here in Santa Clarita is aggressive (Santa Clarita is one of the safest cities in the state) and they have not had issues. The problem is with bad policeman LB, not being aggressive or not.

Well, Santa Clarita does have that zombie problem...

I don't know about the LAPD. I know that Chicago hired an LAPD consultant to implement predictive analysis in the south and west side kill zones. It has helped with shootings somewhat, but we've seen crime in the downtown and north sides increase.

Don't get me wrong, I think community policing and active policing are a good thing. The problem is that POs are disincentivised from policing that way. Departments are trying to save costs and using shotspotters, cameras, maths, etc in favor of cops on the beat.

Sure in some areas, like Santa Clarita, it's different. For starters, the median income is over $80k. And like I said earlier, in flyover territory it still works. It works in many Chicago neighborhoods too. But it doesn't work in Englewood or Back if the Yards.


Also, not sure about LAPDs numbers. In keeping with the thread:

A Los Angeles Police Department captain has accused high-ranking members of the force of misclassifying violent crime and misleading the public about the true state of lawbreaking in the city.

The LAPD, according to Carranza's complaint, "engaged in a highly complex and elaborate coverup in an attempt to hide the fact that command officers had been providing false crime figures to the public attempting to convince the public that crime was not significantly increasing."

And after denials:

The Los Angeles Police Department misclassified an estimated 14,000 serious assaults as minor offenses in a recent eight-year period, artificially lowering the city's crime levels, a Times analysis found.

With the incidents counted correctly, violent crime in the city was 7% higher than the LAPD reported in the period from 2005 to fall 2012, and the number of serious assaults was 16% higher, the analysis found.

When presented with the findings, top LAPD officials acknowledged the department makes errors and said they were working to improve the accuracy of crime data reporting.

The police commission which is made up of civilians keeps a decent lid on policing activities in the city of Los Angeles.

OK so you're saying that the policing problem in Chicago is affecting the lower income neighborhoods. Only a third of black people in South Central LA, a traditionally black area for the city, trusts the police so they have a ways to go, but we still don't have policemen/women who have publicly said they won't police anymore.

I know nothing about the Santa Clarita TV thing, as I don't watch that kind of TV so what Is said went completely over my head.

Lorini wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:46 am I know nothing about the Santa Clarita TV thing, as I don't watch that kind of TV so what Is said went completely over my head.

No interest whatsoever, but thanks for the link.

No they can't do shit like this and get away with it anymore.

This is BAD policing. Period. Get over it you shitty cops.

Chicago cops handcuff a 10 year old boy because of mistaken identity.

I will say that forming a crowd and yelling at the cops is a perfect way to defuse the situation, clarify the facts and return sanity.

I think my stance on shameful police behaviour has been made clear over the months, and that continues here. However, a sure way to make things worse is to engage in chaos and angry confrontation. I say that with much sympathy for the onlookers positions. It sure as fuck doesn't help calm and re-assure the boy, that's for sure.

I'm in favor of the Death Penalty here - "I'll deport you if you don't let me rape your 4-year old daughter"

A Texas sheriff's deputy accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting a 4-year-old girl threatened the victim's mother into staying quiet about the assaults, authorities said Sunday.

Jose Nunez, a 10-year veteran of the Bexar County Sheriff's Department, was off-duty when he was arrested early Sunday. The 47-year-old faces a felony charge of aggravated sexual assault of a child, Sheriff Javier Salazar said at a news conference...

...Salazar said investigators suspect that the girl had been assaulted multiple times over the course of several months.

The girl's mother is an undocumented immigrant, Salazar said, and Nunez told her she'd be deported if she told authorities about the assaults.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:49 pm I'm in favor of the Death Penalty here - "I'll deport you if you don't let me rape your 4-year old daughter"

A Texas sheriff's deputy accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting a 4-year-old girl threatened the victim's mother into staying quiet about the assaults, authorities said Sunday.

Jose Nunez, a 10-year veteran of the Bexar County Sheriff's Department, was off-duty when he was arrested early Sunday. The 47-year-old faces a felony charge of aggravated sexual assault of a child, Sheriff Javier Salazar said at a news conference...

...Salazar said investigators suspect that the girl had been assaulted multiple times over the course of several months.

The girl's mother is an undocumented immigrant, Salazar said, and Nunez told her she'd be deported if she told authorities about the assaults.

While not exactly what you're looking for, there's a very good chance he dies in a cell. And I don't mean in 30-40 years. More like within 1 or 2.

I think Sandusky, the pediophile from Penn State is still in isolation so that can't happen to him. They may do the same thing to this pedophile as well. Hope so, he doesn't deserve communication.

It takes 5 Toronto cops to figure out if a bicyclist should get a ticket, eh?

Moliere wrote: ↑Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:34 am It takes 5 Toronto cops to figure out if a bicyclist should get a ticket, eh?

Incorrectly figured out in the end too.

Police should be absolutely required to memorize both the constitution and rules of the road before ever putting on the uniform. They should absolutely not be out there making up rules about traffic flow on the fly.

It consistently pisses me off how much police just invent laws as they go, even basic ones like bikes being allowed in any lane. I've known that since I was a little kid and got my first bike.

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:20 am Police should be absolutely required to memorize both the constitution and rules of the road before ever putting on the uniform. They should absolutely not be out there making up rules about traffic flow on the fly.

It consistently pisses me off how much police just invent laws as they go, even basic ones like bikes being allowed in any lane. I've known that since I was a little kid and got my first bike.

I think that's the core of the issue for many organizations that are working for better treatment of civilians by police. The police don't seem to know anything about actual rights and laws.

Off-duty cop convicted after shooting unarmed man in bar fight.

I'm glad it looks like the jury got this right - the thing that drives me absolutely batty is this part of the above story.

Macchia's blood alcohol content after the shooting was 0.13, according to the prosecutor's office.

After the verdict, Acting Union County Prosecutor Michael A. Monahan called the case a "prime example of the tragic and senseless consequences that often arise when alcohol and firearms align."

Immediately after the shooting in 2016, Newark Fraternal Order of Police President James Stewart Jr. said he believed the surveillance video would show Macchia was justified in shooting Gaffney.

"Obviously, the jury didn't see it that way," Stewart said Tuesday. He said it appeared to him the Macchia was being violently attacked by Gaffney and "Joe was doing what he had to do to protect himself."

Stewart said the FOP respects the jury's decision and continues to support Macchia and his family.

The man baited him and then shot him when he started losing the fight again. He is a now a convicted murderer yet the FOP is standing by him. Fuck that. The right thing to do would be to stand by the now 15 year old girl who will never see her father again.

Sucks being a cop when you have a bunch of kids standing around taunting you.

Paingod wrote: ↑Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:20 am Police should be absolutely required to memorize both the constitution and rules of the road before ever putting on the uniform. They should absolutely not be out there making up rules about traffic flow on the fly.

It consistently pisses me off how much police just invent laws as they go, even basic ones like bikes being allowed in any lane. I've known that since I was a little kid and got my first bike.

Memorize the Constitution? Uh, no. The salient items in the Bill of Rights, as well as applicable State rights should be sufficient. The Constitution is currently 15 modern pages or so and most of the articles define the Gov't, not police/Civilian rights.

Memorize a cheat sheet on Local State and Federal rights, sure, but the whole Constitution is a waste (for that job).